Permadeath Debate Today
NateDawg
Permadeath Debate Today
---------------------------------
Posted Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 8:56 AM EST by Auz:
Stratics is proud to host the first ever Dev Debates this Saturday
(today), January 27th, at 4pm CST in #permadeath on the Stratics IRC server.
Special guests from the player community as well as the game industry will
be onhand to discuss specific issues relevent to the MMOG industry. This
week, our topic is Permanent Death in MMOGs. Gamers are invited to join in
and watch as our guests interact with one another as they debate this issue.
Our guests this week are: Serafina, Atriarch Jeff Friedman,
Dawn Paul Hutson, Adellion Swamp Thing, Origin Stratics Forums
Thundolfe, Thundolfe's Barnyard JLBesser, Stratics DawnWhile the
debates rage on, hang out in #devdebates to discuss what the industry guests
are saying, weighing in with your own opinions. (Please Note: Due to an
engagement at a Computer Game Developer conference, Raph Koster will not be
appearing at this Dev Debate as previously announced.)
To join the chat, boot your favorite IRC client, connect to one of the
following Stratics IRC servers, and type /join #permadeath. Type /join
#devdebates to join the unmoderated channel to discuss the debates as they
occur. Or, use our Stratics Java IRC Client. irc.stratics.com
compu.stratics.com dhp.stratics.com frws.stratics.com
intworks.stratics.com
Darby Smith
kh...@icqmail.com
wrote:
>---------------------------------
>Permadeath Debate Today
>---------------------------------
DAMMIT! I MISSED IT!
#!*$!
--
There are no saints in heaven
there are no saints on earth
- Deine Lakaien, "Reincarnation"
Nathan Neal
"Darby Smith" <k...@ida.net> wrote in message
news:3A772845...@ida.net...
Nevyn
lives and your out, should be a decent enough time to build a character
carefully. On top of this you would "will" your wealth minus death tax to
you new character so it would lesson the blow?
just a very basic comment on a very in depth topic.
Nev
Nathan Neal <nathan_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DU_d6.78$J22....@nnrp1.sbc.net...
The Ultra-Mind Dragon
<klsc...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>I have thought about this perma death thing and like it but how about 9
>lives and your out, should be a decent enough time to build a character
What is perma death anyway? The first thing that comes to mind
is obvious, but then why are they making it sound like a brand new
concept like DVD or MP3? I have a hard time believing that they'd
bring back a feature that was outlawed from rpgs and adventure games
in the early 90s.
--
Angus March
The Ultra-Mind Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-
an...@hamgate.concordia.ca
http://www.ece.concordia.ca/~ac_march/addr.html (very frivolous)
kh...@icqmail.com
Ultra-Mind Dragon) wrote:
>It was a dark and stormy night when "Nevyn"
><klsc...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>I have thought about this perma death thing and like it but how about 9
>>lives and your out, should be a decent enough time to build a character
> What is perma death anyway? The first thing that comes to mind
>is obvious,
In the most general sense, no free ressurections.
>but then why are they making it sound like a brand new
>concept like DVD or MP3? I have a hard time believing that they'd
>bring back a feature that was outlawed from rpgs and adventure games
>in the early 90s.
ITYM "outlawed from computer rpgs and adventure games." It still
exists in almost every pen-and-paper RPG.
Rick Cortese
news:e8jr7tks1eaadp744...@4ax.com...
> ITYM "outlawed from computer rpgs and adventure games." It still
> exists in almost every pen-and-paper RPG.
Begs the question: "When did computer RPGs get this wild hair up their ass
that newbiedom has to be as painful and boring as filling out your income
taxes?"
I have done more the a few senarios for everything from the first time P&P
role player to accomplished RP'ers with a at least a few years under their
belt. I have *never* written the experience down to the level most CRPGs
take it.
I put as much effort into makng the newbie experience as good as experienced
players. I think someone lost touch with that somewhere along the line.
If you are doing your job right designing a game, the newbie experience
should be almost good enough that people don't care about permadeath any
more then they would picking up a new novel.
Summer Breeze
perma-death will never be viable on a online RPG.
The Ultra-Mind Dragon wrote in message ...
PixelCat
news:lnfr7tke98p07vq17...@4ax.com...
> >I have thought about this perma death thing and like it but how about 9
> >lives and your out, should be a decent enough time to build a character
> What is perma death anyway? The first thing that comes to mind
> is obvious, but then why are they making it sound like a brand new
> concept like DVD or MP3? I have a hard time believing that they'd
> bring back a feature that was outlawed from rpgs and adventure games
> in the early 90s.
Aside: please put a blank line between your text and quoted text. Makes it
easier to pick your stuff out. We don't all use nice newsreaders that
automatically color quoted text differently...
Anyway, you'd be surprised how many people like the idea of permadeath, or
don't dislike it at least. Partially there's the prestige factor, like
Hardcore characters on Diablo II. Look at Alpha Centauri--playing Ironman
(which is kinda equivalent to permadeath: when you save, the game exits,
and when you reload, the savefile is deleted) doubles your score
automatically. Plus, the whole genre of roguelike games has permadeath as a
standard condition (although there is a historical reason for that.)
Yes, none of these are MMOGS, but PD is not strictly and necessarily a bad
thing.
Drake
news:t7s713p...@corp.supernews.com...
snip
| If you are doing your job right designing a game, the newbie experience
| should be almost good enough that people don't care about permadeath any
| more then they would picking up a new novel.
Or perhaps also that they aren't in such a hurry to *not* be newbies would
be an indication of a job well done?
John Shaffer
like that PD is absurd.
I have a high level char that still dies today because he stays in dangerous
places and the first glich that happens usually means death....In destard
with 3 sets of provoked dragons and "client crash" happens ...I get back to
a grey ghost.....and now my GM T-hunter is gone.....after months-years to GM
Carto?....I'll play and Pay to the first death....then find another place to
play....
"PixelCat" <fros...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6lCf6.2164$iM6.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Albert Baker III
John Shaffer <jsha...@coldfront-inc.com> wrote in message
news:tflmdfg...@corp.supernews.com...
> Well untill they can fix things like Disconnects and network lag and
things
> like that PD is absurd.
> I have a high level char that still dies today because he stays in
dangerous
> places and the first glich that happens usually means death....In destard
> with 3 sets of provoked dragons and "client crash" happens ...I get back
to
> a grey ghost.....and now my GM T-hunter is gone.....after months-years to
GM
> Carto?....I'll play and Pay to the first death....then find another place
to
> play..
unacceptable. But I would love to see characters age, and eventually begin
to die. You would know when it was getting close they could tag the
character with [old] like they do young players now. This would give you
time to get your affairs in order because soon the character would be dead.
This would allow for people to restart and try new things. I, by no means,
say this has to be a quick process it could take a couple of years or more
for a charater to get the "[old]" tag but when it did the character would
ultimately be deleted from the account. I think that would be a better
alternative.
Moscow Dragon
Does it mean that after my character is dead, I will be forced to create
a brand new character to play on the same server?
And what is the situation without Permadeath in this case?
Max
Bateau
Bateau: No Mr Moscow Dragon, I expect you to die!
Yes.
--
| _ \ _ ^~ email:bateau at jupiter-io.net
| <')_,/ , ; \ >(')__, . ` ' , ,______________._
| (_~=/ \._`.'. \ (_~_/ _, '------:_______ ;==( *BANG*
| ='- \=~_) ; \ ~^~~^~ ` (_~_/ | | `-\ \ *BANG*
| ICQ:11367619 -'= \ ~^~~^~ `~' \_;
Rick McGreal
news:coBK6.2252$R5.3...@news1.rdc1.va.home.com...
> You would know when it was getting close they could tag the
> character with [old] like they do young players now. This would give you
> time to get your affairs in order because soon the character would be
dead.
> This would allow for people to restart and try new things.
Another gold sink that they could use could be to have rejuve potions.....
Make them damn expensive but will reset your age back one year.....Or
whatever...
> I, by no means, say this has to be a quick process it could take a couple
of years or more
> for a charater to get the "[old]" tag but when it did the character would
ultimately be deleted
> from the account. I think that would be a better alternative.
Also....When a char gets the OLD tag it could use the reputation to his/her
advantage......this would mean that old guys could get free drinks from NPCs
and such
Brent
>I'll play and Pay to the first death....then find another place to
> play....
Yep, that would be me. I spent a year or more getting my craftsman
trained up and my treasure hunter took longer. In my opinion, PD is not
an option. Even if they fix the lag. It's too easy to have an accident
and get killed. They could do that on test center where you just set
your skills, or the hard core people could have a shard like SP.
There are all kinds of logistical problems with this, like what happens
to your house when you die? Talk about griefers, wait till death really
is death and you won't see the end of them till they drive everyone from
the game.
Brent
raven.grant
build up my charactor as i dont do the 8x8 thingy or others......if he were
to die and thats it...the idea of having to start from scratch again is
totally off putting and i reakon that a large number of players would say
...sod it,were off
if its getting crowed on servers then limit the number of player that can
enter/subsribe to a shard and open new ones if neccessary!!
John Shaffer <jsha...@coldfront-inc.com> wrote in message
news:tflmdfg...@corp.supernews.com...
Myrex
rec.games.computer.ultima.online writing in message
news:84SK6.6820$po.10...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com
> Sorry,i just think the idea sucks totally....its taken me far too long
> to build up my charactor as i dont do the 8x8 thingy or others......if
> he were to die and thats it...the idea of having to start from scratch
> again is totally off putting and i reakon that a large number of
> players would say ...sod it,were off
> if its getting crowed on servers then limit the number of player that
> can enter/subsribe to a shard and open new ones if neccessary!!
>
Wasnt this thread started about 3 months ago? Why was it revived?
--
"I need your help on a treasure hunt - there may be mongbats."
Howard (The Coward) Carter
UK UO players meeting & Earthsea Adventurers guildboard
http://pub101.ezboard.com/bearthsea88009
#rgcuo irc - irc.stratics.com port 6667
raven.grant
Myrex <Myrex.remov...@uomail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns909E9BC8EFB7...@194.42.224.159...
Insane Ranter
> rec.games.computer.ultima.online writing in message
> news:84SK6.6820$po.10...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com
>
> > Sorry,i just think the idea sucks totally....its taken me far too long
> > to build up my charactor as i dont do the 8x8 thingy or others......if
> > he were to die and thats it...the idea of having to start from scratch
> > again is totally off putting and i reakon that a large number of
> > players would say ...sod it,were off
> > if its getting crowed on servers then limit the number of player that
> > can enter/subsribe to a shard and open new ones if neccessary!!
> >
>
> Wasnt this thread started about 3 months ago? Why was it revived?
It found it's wandering healer.
Myrex
rec.games.computer.ultima.online writing in message
news:CxVK6.10576$577.1...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com
>>
>> Wasnt this thread started about 3 months ago? Why was it revived?
>>
>> --
>> "I need your help on a treasure hunt - there may be mongbats."
>> Howard (The Coward) Carter
>>
>> UK UO players meeting & Earthsea Adventurers guildboard
>> http://pub101.ezboard.com/bearthsea88009
>> #rgcuo irc - irc.stratics.com port 6667
>
>?
I meant, I didnt see the original thread, and I recall it popping up ages
ago as an ad for a debate on stratics irc or somesuch several months ago.
Ian A Kelley
: >
: > Wasnt this thread started about 3 months ago? Why was it revived?
: It found it's wandering healer.
Too bad there's no such thing as thread permadeath...
--
Ian Kelley "Try not to become a man of success but
ike...@mail.sas.upenn.edu rather to become a man of value."
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~ikelley/ --Albert Einstein
Myrex
rec.games.computer.ultima.online writing in message
news:9dhcr6$96s$1...@netnews.upenn.edu
Thats deja for us, the dropped threads blue healer.