STOP PUNISHING EVIL NOTORIETY
Vanchau Nguyen
There seems to be a huge consensus in this newsgroup to punish those
players with notoriety. There is already built into the game punishment
for this (higher prices, auto kill by guards (read: banned from cities).
Don't you realize that without evil there is no good? If everyone were
good, it would just be the standard. Without players who are willing to
become evil, the game would have little conflict and very boring.
The strength of UO comes from the fact that you are playing against/with
other people. No computer AI can match a competent player.
I realize that a lot of you are sick and tired of getting pked and looted
by these evil characters. Well, I used to be an evil lord and I was sick
and tired of being pked and looted by the 'good' characters. Everything
is a relative situation.
So, stop crying about how evil characters should have more constraints,
just play smarter.
Dao
Atlantic
thomas debennign
Even though I don't like PKers
I certainly agree they are an important part of the game.
Since this is a game that is supposed to mimic a "real fantasy world" it
is important that these guys exist. Because in this world I can get
killed and robbed and unfortunatly the police in this world aren't as
efficient as the guards in Britainia
Secondly PKer seem to be the only stable ongoing orgainizied players.
Joseph M. Wilcox
On Mon, 20 Oct 1997 21:36:38 +0100, Marc
<Marc....@munich.netsurf.de> wrote:
>Of course if this is only true to your character, then only your character's
>nose is a bit high up in the air. It just didn't sound that way ...
Actually I do roleplay my character as self-rightous person who
demands the answer from anyone with evil. But this is after being
PKilled too many times to count. Now it's my turn.
Look at it this way.. the parent characters to this one where killed
by PK'ers, now I fight for justice my own way..
"I'm BATMAN"
(hope you find some humor in this bad joke)
J.
Joseph M. Wilcox
On Mon, 20 Oct 1997 20:42:11 GMT, NbOeSn...@sd.znet.com (Nicky
Wilson) wrote:
>This is not foolproof, either. You are assuming that everyone who is genuinely
>good will immediately trust you, and stop to explain themselves to you. Why are
>you more worthy of trust than any other? You may have good notoriety, but you
>know that doesn't mean much under the current system. I, personally, stop for
>no one, *especially* if they tell me to stop, and this would not change if my
>notoriety were ever to drop below neutral (barring bugs, this will not happen!
>I don't play evil characters). You may likely kill a good person who flees out
>of mistrust of other players, yet let a bad person with a skill for lying go
>free. You may need to re-evaluate how you judge others before you start
>slinging lightning around, unless you're aiming at being just another
>indiscriminate player-killer.
And now we see the real problem with vigilantism! Truth is it's a
judgement call on my side. However, even with the bugs, if your a
dreaded lord.. 99% of the time, you deserve the title! Yes, some good
players probably get caught in the process.
And btw.. If your only dasterdly and don't stop, I will usually
paralyze you first. I do everything in my power not kill good
players. HOWEVER! According to the rules of the game, if I click on
you, and you show up in RED, I don't even have to blink!
Without a decent law system, the strongest man makes the rules! As
concieted as that sounds... there are people on Baja stronger than me,
and I'm sure at some point, I'll be killed by one of them, but those
are the current rules in UO!
J.
Nelson
Vanchau Nguyen wrote:
>
> There seems to be a huge consensus in this newsgroup to punish those
> players with notoriety. There is already built into the game punishment
> for this (higher prices, auto kill by guards (read: banned from cities).
>
> Don't you realize that without evil there is no good? If everyone were
> good, it would just be the standard. Without players who are willing to
> become evil, the game would have little conflict and very boring.
>
> The strength of UO comes from the fact that you are playing against/with
> other people. No computer AI can match a competent player.
>
> I realize that a lot of you are sick and tired of getting pked and looted
> by these evil characters. Well, I used to be an evil lord and I was sick
> and tired of being pked and looted by the 'good' characters. Everything
> is a relative situation.
>
> So, stop crying about how evil characters should have more constraints,
> just play smarter.
>
> Dao
> Atlantic
Hm...Anyone on the Atlantic server can tell you that most of the GM
swordsman/mages pkers there are not Dreaded Lords, but Noble
Lords......so much for notoriety....if you are being attacked purely on
the basis of your notoriety.....make no mistake...YOU ARE BEING PKED BY
A PKER!
Twilight
Joseph M. Wilcox
>Hm...Anyone on the Atlantic server can tell you that most of the GM
>swordsman/mages pkers there are not Dreaded Lords, but Noble
>Lords......so much for notoriety....if you are being attacked purely on
>the basis of your notoriety.....make no mistake...YOU ARE BEING PKED BY
>A PKER!
>
You are looking at this wrong. Here is how it works:
Stealing, snooping, PKilling neutral/good players makes you an evil
person. If your evil, good characters will kill you. Try this..
click on a moster and see that his name/type appears in red.
Click on an evil person, see that their name appears in red.
Notice how EVIL PLAYER = MONSTER!
You can kill anything who's name appears in red on a whim! That's the
rules! Now, are some unlucky good people who happen to make mistakes
gonna get killed.. YES! Are more idiots who hunt down newbies gonna
get killed... YES!
Now I understand that with the bugs in the game, it's fairly easy to
get a bad notoriety. BUT.. A) having experianced the bugs myself, I
can safely say that most of those effected never dropped down below
Dasterdly and B) A page to a GM would get your notoriety fixed! This
means there is no reason to have a negitave notoriety!
Here's a story:
Over the weekend, I happen upon the bridge between Britannia and
Trinsic and found two little evil doers playing troll. They were
PKilling and robbing newbies as they crossed the bridge. When I
approached (I'm a Expert Swordsmans by title) they quickly moved away
and said "Well you can pass.. we don't want to mess with you".
Dilemma: Should I just walk by, should I turn turn these fools in to
ghosts.. Guess which path I took.
Bill Harris
Well, it isn't hard to avoid getting robbed all them time, just be
careful about how you pack your bag and where you stand. It would be
unrealistic to have a PK environment where you can wack another palyer,
but can't steal from his bag.
As for what you can put in your bag, I personnally like the throne and
armoire :)
Fred Ramsey wrote:
>
> Or just limit it to gold (and have ways to "hide" your gold to decrease the
> thieve's chances). They shouldn't be able to steal a whole set of plate
> mail. (for that matter, how am I able to carry a bookshelf in my pack?
> Hmmm.)
>
> --
>
> Reluctant Messiah <jcop...@nyx.net> wrote in article
> > lose my spare plate armor??) is more fantastic than summoning a demon.
> I,
> > for one, would like to see stealing (and snooping) removed from the
> skills
> > list, not because of it's evil connotations, but because of its being
> > unrealistic.
> >
John Thornburgh
I agree with you 100%!
My character has become "dastardly" through a bug -- having pets kill
monsters seems to produce negative rather than postive notoriety.
Now I can't venture out of town without being killed by misinformed
vigilante "lords". Maybe it's just the shortage of monsters, but they are
evil PKer's in my mind to shoot on sight when they have no idea of the
circumstances. And I am sure that defending myself would just make matters
worse.
So -- what I am trying to do is kill monsters alone to raise my notoriety.
But this is really hard (a) because I can't have pets or people help me and
(b) if people see me they will kill me.
I suppose if this keeps up, I'll have to give up and become evil for real.
John
aka Marcus/Baja
Joseph M. Wilcox
On Mon, 20 Oct 1997 21:30:12 +0100, Marc
<Marc....@munich.netsurf.de> wrote:
>
>Lightning from GOD??? You sure are an enlightened being.
>Btw, what's a good reason? I think every intelligent PK (and we know there
>are smart ones out there) will say it was a bug, so what's the point?
>Also, I would hate (and wouldn't do it) to justify myself before a self-
>righteous person, like you obviously are.
>
>Honest Dragon
>
Lightnining from GOD is just an experssion meaning swift and painfull
death!
Good reason is simply they must convince me, which isn't a very thing
to do. However it's important to note I handle it as follows:
Dasterdly - Questioned!
Evil - Questioned with serious doubt to their innocence
any other notoriety: KILL ON SIGHT!
The main reason I stop and ask first is to allow the person to react
to me. 90% of the time if the player is bad, I'll get a wise-ass
remark or they try and attack me. An Expert Swordsman can look like
somewhat easy prey to some, except I'm also an Expert Mage ;)
It's my goal to rid the Baja shard of evil doers!
J.
J.
Joseph M. Wilcox
On Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:11:36 GMT, viri...@earthling.net (Nicky
Wilson) wrote:
>One doesn't *HAVE* to blink to kill anything in the game, but the rules
>shouldn't preclude common sense and courtesy. It's just easier and more meanly
>gratifying for some humans to just *not care*. You're not doing anyone a favor
>by pking supposedly evil PCs...how can you be sure? You can't, which
>effectively makes you just another player killer. This makes me *so* angry,
>because normally I would just love what you're doing...but notoriety, the way it
>is now, is working against the good player, and _for_ the evil player. :(
>
Everything you say is true. Yes the notoriety system works against
good players (I'm now dasterdly thanks to 2 (count them 2) accidential
hits on my partner last night). But it's all the same.
If your red, you have two choices. Works HARD at becoming blue again
(which I'm in the process of doing) or turn completely evil.
Right now, anyone neutral and up can try an PK me without hesitation.
I don't want this to happen so I'm working as quickly as I can to
change my notoriety. But these are the rules and this is how the
society of UO works! Do I like this society, no, and I'll continue to
post to here and web boards with ideas on how to make it better, but
in the mean time, I'll live with the rules and hardships put upon me.
Besides now you have incentive to work at being good. It's always
simpler to be evil! Remember, the road to the dark side is a quick
and simple path.. but alot more costly.
>
>>Without a decent law system, the strongest man makes the rules!
>
>It's a sorry thing that often this man is an utter jerk, and merely a bully.
>
Unfortunately, that how UO is at the moment! I don't like it, but
it's how it is so I play. Should I be able to go out and simply PK
someone because he shows RED on my screen.. nope, I'd perfer a
citizens arrest, but since that's not there.. I questions and then PK
if needed.
At least I question them first so it's a judgement call by SOMEONE.
>
>Rules, schmoolz...the sad fact is that this game is unfinished, unbalanced, and
>unfair, and player killers are already ruining it.
>
You know I have never said PK'ers are hurting UO. The simple fact is,
the pkillers are NOT ruining it only giving it a different edge. Yes,
the game is unbalanced and it will never be finished but unfair? Yes
there are bugs people can take advantage of, but you just need to
learn how to avoid them, or use them yourself. This isn't like Diablo
where PK'ers were 99% extreme cheaters that hacked the game to allow
them to kill in one hit. I can't kill someone of the same skill level
as myself in one hit.. it usually ends up being a good fight. But as
in life, someone with less skill, falls more quickly.
In the course of last night, I had 11 attempts on my life. 9 out of
the 11 died at my feet. The other 2 I released after explaining to
them that I was not in fact an evil character and that I was working
on improving my notoriety. But after that.. I was simply tired of
dealing with them. It's a pain to paralyze your attacker, talk to him,
make him understand so he doesn't attack as soon as it wears off.
It's much easier to simply kill him since anyone under Expert is
basicly a 1 hit wonder :)
Over the course of playing I've learned that PKilling is just part of
the game. In time you will learn the skills needed to avoid getting
PK'd through experiance.
J.
Adam Littman
In article <344d1543...@news.primenet.com>, jwi...@sillysoft.com wrote:
>On Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:11:36 GMT, viri...@earthling.net (Nicky
>Wilson) wrote:
>>One doesn't *HAVE* to blink to kill anything in the game, but the rules
>>shouldn't preclude common sense and courtesy. It's just easier and more
> meanly
>>gratifying for some humans to just *not care*. You're not doing anyone a
> favor
>>by pking supposedly evil PCs...how can you be sure? You can't, which
>>effectively makes you just another player killer. This makes me *so* angry,
>>because normally I would just love what you're doing...but notoriety, the way
> it
>>is now, is working against the good player, and _for_ the evil player. :(
>>
>
>Everything you say is true. Yes the notoriety system works against
>good players (I'm now dasterdly thanks to 2 (count them 2) accidential
>hits on my partner last night). But it's all the same.
That is why (when I was on) I worked alone.
___________
Adam Littman / ^ \
AL...@cornell.edu /\ / \ /\
/__\__/___\__/__\
/ \( ) ( )/ \
\ /\ o /\ /
\ / \( )/ \ /
"Four minutes twenty-two seconds, \/____\_/____\/
Baldric, you owe me a groat" \ \ /
--Blackadder \ / \ /
---------
John Thornburgh
Can you really kill misinformed attackers while trying to become blue
again?
Won't that sink you hopelessly into the red? Or is self-defense permitted?
John
Joseph M. Wilcox
On Wed, 22 Oct 1997 15:04:05 GMT, viri...@earthling.net (Nicky
Wilson) wrote:
>
>A matter of opinion. Of course, you like pkers, because you hunt them. I
>dislike them because they interfere with my peaceful activities. Must we all
>become warriors to fight them off? Why should I even have to give the jerks
>even one minute of my attention? The way it is now, pking is ruining the game
>because it is forcing *everyone* to worry about being pk'ed, instead of allowing
>the peaceful customers to concentrate completely on whatever non-pk-oriented
>activities in which they wish to engage. It's mass paranoia, my friend.
>
I know it would be a nicer place without PK'ers, but UO is susposed to
somewhat mimic real life with real life villians as well as heros.
Last night a couple of PK'ing mages took hold by a dungeon and were
killing everyone who tried to enter. I joined a quest with 10 others
to rid the land of these evil do'ers. THAT'S ROLE PLAYING! And it
was a lot of fun :)
However I think there would be alot less PKing if OSI would spawn more
quests and major evil attacks. The most fun I have even had in UO was
trying to fight off a major undead invasion with 30 or so others (we
found over 200 ghouls/spectres that night). More of that, and people
won't need to kill other people.
>
>But we have thread drift, and I have already spoken about this in length in the
>past . Enough for me, for the moment. And good luck to you, sir. May you
>never accidentally murder an innocent.
Accidents do happen. In fact the other day I was playing and 2 PK'ers
jumped me in the woods. Not a big deal, but one of them was crafty.
He was hidden in a tree behind a GOOD player shooting his crossbow at
me. I scanned the screen for where the attack was coming from and saw
only the good player. Since the bolts were coming right out of his
head I assumed it was he who attacked me. Needless to say.. a good
newbie died!
Of course, after I realized this (when I killed the real PK'er).. I
made ammends by guarding his body from looters, healing him when he
came back, and giving him some magic weapons/armor I was going to sell
(not to mention the time I had to spend fishing to raise my notoriety
back). Even I make mistakes.. but I do try and atone for them.
J.
ElCabalero
In article <344e1110....@news.znet.com>, viri...@earthling.net
(Nicky Wilson) writes:
>>You know I have never said PK'ers are hurting UO. The simple fact is,
>>the pkillers are NOT ruining it only giving it a different edge.
>
>A matter of opinion. Of course, you like pkers, because you hunt them. I
>dislike them because they interfere with my peaceful activities.
I was the original of what has now become common, a Naked Smith. Most
people thought I did it to save the 10 stone or so that clothing weighs,
but it wasn't. I did it because PK was so out of control at that point
that I could *count* on dying every other time I went out to mine. Without
becoming a dedicated warrior and getting to veteran level at it, I couldn't
hope to fight the PK's and win, and having some combat skill would only
tempt me to try.
So I never carried anything of value. When I left the city, I had a
smith hammer, a shovel, maybe a few ingots, and nothing else. My gold went
in the bank before I left the city, and I never made anything I didn't know
I could sell. Basicly, I had to orient my entire play style around the
PK's, just so I could ignore them.
Needless to say, that didn't make me very happy. I've said it before,
excessive PK is as bad as no PK, but it's a hell of a lot more intrusive.
If all I want to do is run back and forth to the mines, making things just
to see if I can, I should be able to without getting killed as often as not
when I stick my nose out of the city. That I should die occasionally is
acceptable. That I should accept dying as part of the routine price of
doing business is not.
--Mahrin Skel
Justin Madison
John Thornburgh <72337...@compuserve.com> wrote in article
<01bcde81$6d10db60$b8e1...@72337.2672>...
If you are in war mode you will auto defend against attack. If you target
your attacker and their name is blue you will go down in notoriety.
Justin Madison
trashw Baja-shard
Guest User
Nick Sanders wrote:
>
> > Sorry Dao, but I hate evil, hate PK'ers, hate looters.
>
> I hate pkillers and looters (unless they are looting a thief or a
> pkiller!). But remember... the noteriety system "is porked" (I love that
> phrase).
>
> > I will continue to kill PK'ers and Evil players. If you finally get
> tired of
> > it and stop being evil, then so be it, there are plenity of monsters out
> > there. ;-)
>
> Do you simply walk up to evil players and start killing them? I met a
> fellow like that today named Job the Scot (who is now on my hitlist). He
> saw a dreadlord and began hurling spells at him. We (a group of people in
> the same room) told him to stop and that the dreadlord got his title by
> accident. Job kept killing the dreadlord till Strider (a person whos now
> on my hero list) killed the bastard, but not before he killed two
> innocents. If I ever meet another person like Job..... well I have a few
> magic suprises ready this time. Till the noteriety system is ironed out,
> "evil killing" is just another word for the loathed "pkilling of
> newbies/innocents".
>
> Its much funner to piss someone off by using provoke to have the local
> wildlife chase after him than to simply kill him yourself. :)
>
> - Nick.
No offense,but if I see a Dread Lord,I generally find assuming the worst
is the best course,regardless of who vouches for em. Run away,or take em
out. Dastardly/Dishonorable and that range,I just make sure I keep an
eye on em,and if I see em looting PC corpses or PKing... *BAMMO*
-Paul T.
SUNDAY286
>I just make sure I keep an
>eye on em,and if I see em looting PC corpses or PKing... *BAMMO*
I think a dead body is and should be fair game
that is why people should travel in groups...and have their friends take and
hold all items they own when killed.
Now killing a player so that you can loot them is worse than anything...but if
the player is killed by a guard or a monster...the loot is fair game.
just my 2 cents worth
SUNDAY,
"I stay up all night, I fall asleap watchin' dragnet. I never sleap alone
because jimmie's the magnet."
Nelson
Hmph. Personally I hate looters....Pkers at least put themselves on the
line for their loot(although I dont condone their activities). Looters
just leech off other people's misfortunes and reveal a streak of
cowardice when they watch from the sidelines while other adventurers get
slaughtered by monsters or pkers.
When I am in the wilderness or dungeons, I take it as a priority to make
an example of these types of players......
Twilight