Pathetic Warriors
Rubik
I would think this character is pretty decent. There have been multiple
occassions where i bump into PK mages and got my ass whooped. The thing i
don't understand is, why do OSI make mages so powerful that other races
don't stand a chance. I mean, the PK paralyze/froze me and i'm done for,
can't take a swing at him or anything while he laughs in my face and Corp
Por me to death. Even a grandmaster warrior would not stand against a decent
mage. Even if i have resists and attack him, chances of him standing there
and letting me swing at him is close to nothing. It is difficult to corner
and fight a mage, where as all he has to do is cast a spell like Corp Por
and you cannot run from it, as it is a "heat seeker". What gives ?
Rubik
Lord Queso
possible, get anatomy as high as possible, macro if you want.
Carry magic trapped pouches to break paralyze. E-bolt is not a heat seeker, it
just automaticaly hits, the animation heat seeks you. If you charge at a mage
with a katana or other fast weapon and keep close to him you should be able to
beat him. A horse helps this.
The Respectable Queso, 100% Pure Moonglow Master Mage (Atlantic)
"I'm going to rescue him. It's my duty. It's my duty as a complete and utter
bastard!"
Arnold Judas Rimmer
Opium
your tactics and swords in the >95 range. If you use a (deadly poisoned)
katana the mage will have no chance to get any level 6 spells off,
he will even be in trouble healing himself.
As Lord Queso already mentioned, carry some (magically!!!) trapped boxes
or pouches on you, they do 1 damage on opening thus breaking paralyze spells.
For healing use potions, bandages and a greater heal spell then and when,
you can take much more damage than the mage can deal with his 100 mana and
when he runs dry he's history.
IMHO mage vs warrior is pretty good balanced now, both have a chance.
Michael Ball
>Beating a mage (even a GM mage) with this stats is pretty easy, just get
>your tactics and swords in the >95 range. If you use a (deadly poisoned)
>katana the mage will have no chance to get any level 6 spells off,
>he will even be in trouble healing himself.
>As Lord Queso already mentioned, carry some (magically!!!) trapped boxes
>or pouches on you, they do 1 damage on opening thus breaking paralyze spells.
>For healing use potions, bandages and a greater heal spell then and when,
>you can take much more damage than the mage can deal with his 100 mana and
>when he runs dry he's history.
>IMHO mage vs warrior is pretty good balanced now, both have a chance.
It's funny though, that the mage only needs the one skill Magery, yet that
warrior must have:
some magery
tactics
swords
and it helps (in your scenario) to have:
healing
alchemy (unless you purchase poison and GH potions)
anatomy
tinkering (unless you purchase trapped boxes)
I agree with the original poster, Mages (or maybe it is just Magery) is a
little lopsided (not unbeatable, but lopsided).
Lilith
Jeff Gentry
: It's funny though, that the mage only needs the one skill Magery, yet that
: some magery
: tactics
: swords
Not really true. Mage also needs Eval int or his spells ain't gonna
do jack against that warrior. Furthermore, that warrior doesn't need
magery at all (FWIW, my PvM warrior took down a mage this weekend -
was a close fight, but I never once used magery).
: healing
This would also help the mage
: alchemy (unless you purchase poison and GH potions)
This is kinda silly. Mages come equipped with potions too
: anatomy
Okay, I'll buy this one.
: tinkering (unless you purchase trapped boxes)
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh No.
If you want to talk about unique skills in a PvP fight ...
warrior: Tactics, Weapon Skill, Anatomy, *maybe* Parry (don't really see it
in PvP)
Mage: Magery, Eval Int, Wrestling (To avoid being interrupted)
Beyond this, any skill you rattle off would be smart for *anay* PvP
type to have, not just one or the other.
Ian
Michael Ball wrote in message ...
>In article <37124B38...@cares.com>, Opium <w...@cares.com> wrote:
>>Beating a mage (even a GM mage) with this stats is pretty easy, just get
>>your tactics and swords in the >95 range. If you use a (deadly poisoned)
>>katana the mage will have no chance to get any level 6 spells off,
>>he will even be in trouble healing himself.
>>As Lord Queso already mentioned, carry some (magically!!!) trapped boxes
>>or pouches on you, they do 1 damage on opening thus breaking paralyze
spells.
>>For healing use potions, bandages and a greater heal spell then and when,
>>you can take much more damage than the mage can deal with his 100 mana and
>>when he runs dry he's history.
>>IMHO mage vs warrior is pretty good balanced now, both have a chance.
>
>warrior must have:
Not if the Mage wants a good chance at beating you, he has to have
Magery
Eval Int
Resist spells (from other mages)
Wrestling (To increse the chances he succeeds)
Meditation
Invaribly tactics goes up with wrestling practice.
>
>some magery
Not really necessary unless you want to recall, otherwise, you cant get but
1 heal off with a 20-28 mana warrior.
I have a warrior, and he has 100str, 28 mana, 97 dex.
I have no chance of healing myself more than once and leaving enough for a
recall to get away. I use badages.
>tactics
It raises with sword training, and I think should get a higher hit bonus,
why do I have to be a Doctor (anatomy) In order to do more damage? its quite
silly if you ask me.
>swords
>
>and it helps (in your scenario) to have:
>
>healing
>alchemy (unless you purchase poison and GH potions)
Inexpensively purchased....
>anatomy
Yeah, I think that sucks (see above note)
>tinkering (unless you purchase trapped boxes)
UM they said MAGICALLY trapped, level 2 spell, easy to cast.
>I agree with the original poster, Mages (or maybe it is just Magery) is a
>little lopsided (not unbeatable, but lopsided).
I beat up a mage 1-1 outside deciet once, he magic arrowed me...para'd me, i
hit my box, and charged right at him. I am sure he was saying WTF when I
killed him...but it just goes to show that a warrior on a horse could
possibly beat a mage anyday.
>
>Lilith
>
>
Jeff Gentry
: Magery
: Eval Int
Yup to both of those
: Resist spells (from other mages)
To be fair - Resist is useful for *all* PvP types. I don't think you
can say one specific PvP "class" needs it more then any other.
: Wrestling (To increse the chances he succeeds)
Yup
: Meditation
Forgot this one in my post
Opium
> It's funny though, that the mage only needs the one skill Magery, yet that
> warrior must have:
>
> tactics
> swords
The mage will also need eval int and meditation now, and building magery
is by far the most expensive skill in the game. The mage also needs high
wrestling, makes 4 skills total for the mage plus 2 additional (tactics
and any weapon) if he wants some backup.
Of course the warrior wants high wrestling, too, if he's planning
to use magery to heal.
>
> and it helps (in your scenario) to have:
>
> healing
> alchemy (unless you purchase poison and GH potions)
> anatomy
> tinkering (unless you purchase trapped boxes)
>
Alchemy and tinkering are non-combat-skills, the warrior or the mage don't need them.
With trapped boxes or pouches (yes pouches can be trapped) I meant magical traps
(In Jux), tinker traps make too much damage to be usefull.
> I agree with the original poster, Mages (or maybe it is just Magery) is a
> little lopsided (not unbeatable, but lopsided).
>
If a GM mage fights a GM warrior, there are 3 factors determining the outcome:
- skill and tactics of the player (experience!)
- connection speed
- luck (damage from hits and magery is _very_ random)
jx...@po.cwru.edu
>
> It's funny though, that the mage only needs the one skill Magery,
As a mage, here's the skills I find necessary for PvP combat:
For all PvPers:
Magic Resist (something I'd suggest for all PvP people, especially given
the way Eval Int works)
Tracking (don't let your opponent get away, or keep track of where your
partner is; will also continue to track the ghost if the target dies)
For mages:
Magery (duh)
Meditation (otherwise I'd have to break off combat whenever I use up my
mana)
Eval Int (without this, my e bolts only do 10 damage each)
A couple secondary skills that I'm not sure are worth the skill points
(currently letting these skills decay):
Wrestling (minimize the interruption of my own spells, use to interrupt
the opponent's spells)
Tactics (no way I can lose this skill while maintaining wrestling)
-Smedley, Daemon Summoner
jx...@po.cwru.edu
>
> Michael Ball wrote:
> >
> > It's funny though, that the mage only needs the one skill Magery,
>
> As a mage, here's the skills I find necessary for PvP combat:
>
> For all PvPers:
<snip>
Ick, the formatting for that came out really rotten....sorry all
-Smedley, Daemon Summoner
ReDRuM
ONE skill, while the warrior spends.... What is it? 500gp for a polar bear,
and 10gp for a skinning knife? And btw, a mage needs more then just magery.
They need meditation(more money), resist(lots of money), eval int(a trapped
animal :P)... I think that's it.
John Wagner
: I have a warrior character, 100/84/21 with swordsmanship 85 and tactics 89.
: I would think this character is pretty decent. There have been multiple
: occassions where i bump into PK mages and got my ass whooped. The thing i
: don't understand is, why do OSI make mages so powerful that other races
: don't stand a chance. I mean, the PK paralyze/froze me and i'm done for,
: can't take a swing at him or anything while he laughs in my face and Corp
: Por me to death. Even a grandmaster warrior would not stand against a decent
The problem is not how lethal the mages are; the problem is how
insipid your attack is. In Real Life most times when someone gets whacked
with a heavy mace etc they are gonna be a big mess. In these Naive D&D
type games that just means some lowered HPs, fo rthe few seconds until the
mage can move a few inches away and get off an In Vas Mani- and make it
like it never happened. Then round 2, they can wack you with their
magics. You meanwhile, must get near them despite lag and weird
connection problems. The next big fixes for warriors would be to ever so
slightly increase weapon damage so that a hit could actually kill, not
just wound, and second make it so certain melee weapons have a greater
attack range, such as two handed staffs, two handed war hammers, long
spears and polearms (covers all the weapon groups).
John Wagner
Michael Ball
wrote:
>Not really true. Mage also needs Eval int or his spells ain't gonna
>do jack against that warrior. Furthermore, that warrior doesn't need
>magery at all (FWIW, my PvM warrior took down a mage this weekend -
>was a close fight, but I never once used magery).
Why don't you read the post I was replying to and then you can place my
answer in context. The poster stated "and a greater heal spell then and..".
Therefore the warrior would need:
magery
tactics
sword
healing
anatomy
>: healing
>This would also help the mage
>: alchemy (unless you purchase poison and GH potions)
>This is kinda silly. Mages come equipped with potions too
Hence I said.... unless you purchase.... sheesh
Mage would need:
magery
healing
eval int
Plus with magery you get offensive, defenise and utilty spells all for one
skill.
>If you want to talk about unique skills in a PvP fight ...
That is not what I was talking about... maybe you should have replied with
your post to the original poster... not to the followup. I was not talking
about the ubar PvP situation, just answering back to what someone had replied.
Jeff, you seam to have a lot of play experience, but why don't you followup to
the proper message, instead of spouting off your vast experience on the masses
who don't care.
Lilith
Michael Ball
>You know what else is funny? The mage spends thousands of gold to get that
>ONE skill, while the warrior spends.... What is it? 500gp for a polar bear,
Come on... no GM tank mage is without their gang of mule characters.... gold
is almost meaningless in this game to any experienced player...
..plus what else is their to spend money on if not for regeants.... :)
Lilith
Lord Queso
>with a heavy mace etc they are gonna be a big mess.
I would imagine the same thing would happen if someone would be hit with a
flamestrike in real life.
Queso, Guildmaster of The Yellow Knights of Moonglow, 100% Pure Master Mage
Moonglow (Atlantic)
"I'm going to rescue him. It's my duty. It's my duty as a complete and utter
bastard!"
-Arnold Judas Rimmer
John Wagner
: >In Real Life most times when someone gets whacked
: >with a heavy mace etc they are gonna be a big mess.
:
: I would imagine the same thing would happen if someone would be hit with a
: flamestrike in real life.
I think you must have glossed over the first sentence which listed
that there is no problem with mage's having too high damage- rather the
problem is wuss warriors. Thanks.
John
:
:
: Queso, Guildmaster of The Yellow Knights of Moonglow, 100% Pure Master Mage
Jeff Gentry
: Jeff, you seam to have a lot of play experience, but why don't you followup t
: the proper message, instead of spouting off your vast experience on the masse
: who don't care.
Because I disagreed with that poster's assessment of exactly what was needed
for a warrior to win said fight.
Lord Queso
> I think you must have glossed over the first sentence which listed
>that there is no problem with mage's having too high damage- rather the
>problem is wuss warriors. Thanks.
Firstly, warriors are not wusses. Secondly, I already gave a very long
explanation with some tips on how to play a pvp warrior vs a mage. Also, my
comment was only aimed at clearing up the misconception that maces should do a
lot of damage just because they do in real life.
Michael Ball
> I think you must have glossed over the first sentence which listed
>that there is no problem with mage's having too high damage- rather the
>problem is wuss warriors. Thanks.
It appears to be a rampant problem in this thread - staying on the topic of
the original poster...
Lilith
Michael Ball
Then you should have replied to Opium's post or the original poster (Rubik). I
was answering Opium's post that had a lot of skills to combat magery
(poisoning, magery (self healing), healing, poitions, etc). That would make
the warrior having to know a lot of skills compared to the mage (maybe twice
as many).
But if we look at the basic skills, a better question might be, can a warrior
beat a mage with these skill sets (I am assuming both skilled players)?
Mage:
Magery
Eval Int
Meditation
Warrior:
Tactics
Anatomy
Weapon Skill
Who would win??
This might be more of what the original poster (may) have been asking (in a
round about way). Not taking into account that both may or may not have
"healing skill", "explosive chests", "potions - both GH and poison". Although,
the mage does not have to de-equipo anything to drink the GH potions :)
I don't know since I am not a mage (although I think the mage would win).
Lilith
John Wagner
warrior is using a deadly poisoned weapon. Sorry, but my mace-wielding
figher doesn't have that option. How a mage can whip a fighter nearly
every time:
1) Mage sees fighter with weapon and shield
2) Mage runs from fighter, gettinga screen away
3) Mage casts explosion
4) Fighter pursuing now on screen
5) Mage targets fighter, begins to cast Flame Strike
6) Fighter gets near mage
7) Explosion takes effect, then flame strike; 99 str fighter
now down to a sliver of health
8) Fighter strikes mage doing good half of health damage
9) Mage moves back a few steps and casts IN-VAS-Mani, now
back to full health
10)Fighter at this point could de-equip shield and quaff
a Greater Heal potion, healing maybe 18 hps, less
than the effect of an E-Bolt.
11) Mage casts E-Bolt.
12) Fighter dead.
Only exceptions-
1) Fighter using deadly poisoned weapon, presumes something
mace fighters generally dont have access to and/or a whole
new set of skills
2) Fighter manages to somehow corner the mage so the mage
cannot run beyond his weapon range.
3) Other players are assisting the fighter.
I have seen this exact combination of situations multiple
times. I have both high level Mage and high level warrior.
John Wagner
Moonbat, ii, Cats
Jeff Gentry
: [snip] all of these 'warrior wins versus mage' arguments assume the
: warrior is using a deadly poisoned weapon. Sorry, but my mace-wielding
: figher doesn't have that option. How a mage can whip a fighter nearly
: every time:
I am sorry if you do not have the PvP skills necessary to best a mage
as a warrior. However, do not state your findings as fact. You can
and have been proven wrong by many UO warriors. I will not argue that
out of the "unskilled PvPer" pool that mages have an advantage over
warriors - it is the "easier" class to fight with. HOWEVER, I will
say that a straight up warrior is at least an equivalent to a straight
up mage (ie warrior isn't using poison and whatnot) when skilled PvPers
are brought in to play. And throwing in things like poison to the mix
makes the warrior a *deadlier* class.
Jeff Gentry
: But if we look at the basic skills, a better question might be, can a warrior: beat a mage with these skill sets (I am assuming both skilled players)?
Debates like this are very tough to talk about. 99.9% of my PvP experience
in UO is as a mage. Thus, if I'm playing a warrior and get into a scrap,
I'm not nearly as effective as I would if I'm a mage. Also, certain
fighting "Styles" fit better into peoples general "rythym" if that makes sense.
So, there are just too many intangible variables to seriuosly toss down
a few skill sets and say "who wins". The person, lag, Lady Luck, etc
all enters into it.
: Mage:
: Magery
: Eval Int
: Meditation
: Warrior:
: Tactics
: Anatomy
: Weapon Skill
Well, for one thing this is even more silly a thing to ask (although I
*do* see where you are coming from and it is a valid statement) because
it "just doesn't work like this" ... on top of the statement I made above.
I'm of the belief that in a case like this that it has a lot more to do
with "what they do with those skills" than those skills in general.
I will say that if they're *only* using those three skills that the mage
would *probably* have the advantage (in most situations) - there is no
denying that warriors require more "support stuff" ... they need armour,
weapons, etc. However, I actually *made* about 60k getting my PvM
char to high master tactics/swords, whereas my latest mage has spent
about that much to obtain the same level - so I don't really mind my
warrior requiring a bit more 'maitenance' (they also don't have to worry
bout running out of reagents)
: the mage does not have to de-equipo anything to drink the GH potions :)
I think most PvP warriors tend not to use shields. Parry seems marginally
affective in PvP (dunno 1st hand, just what I'veh eard), and it allows
for potion drinking. That's why you see a lot of katanas floating around.
ReDRuM
Well, all I'm saying is, mages are more expensive then warriors. So, they
should be better, agreed? Yeah, agreed :P
Oh, and a mages skills take MUCH longer then a warriors. Unless you include
parrying. But, not like that helps any.
;-)
>Overall it takes around 200K to make a Tank Mage. And how do they
>make their investment back? Ganking newbie miners and low-level
>characters.
>--
>Think about the tiny, furry rodents scurrying around the
>Jurassic landscape being eaten by predators many times
>their size. To them, the asteroid wasn't a disaster,
>it was a Godsend.
>
Damocles
>Ian (Sp...@NoSpam.com) wrote:
>
>: Wrestling (To increse the chances he succeeds)
>Yup
Nope. I've tested this by letting my wrestling decay from 90 to 35.
The effect on pvp combat has been zero. No difference whatsoever. I
get interrupted at exactly the same rate as before, and take the same
amount of damage when engaged with spellbook in hand (which is fairly
often so I can keep wrestling from rising).
The necessity for wrestling is another one of those strange UO urban
legends that goes around. It's a completely useless skill.
________________________________________________
Look out my window, what do I see?
Crack in the sky and a hand reaching down to me.
All the nightmares came today,
And it looks as though they're here to stay.
- David Bowie, "Oh You Pretty Things"
John Wagner
: On 13 Apr 1999 16:35:13 GMT, lord...@aol.comNOSPAM (Lord Queso)
: wrote:
: >>that there is no problem with mage's having too high damage- rather the
: >>problem is wuss warriors. Thanks.
: >explanation with some tips on how to play a pvp warrior vs a mage. Also, my
: >comment was only aimed at clearing up the misconception that maces should do a
: >lot of damage just because they do in real life.
: fought guys with war hammers and they really were able to wail on me.
: Most mages now are not wearing much armor, and those heavy mace
: weapons do a lot of damage and cut stamina down very quickly.
However much damage a mace weapon may do it isnt enough. A mage
just has to step a few squares a way, press his macro key for In Vas Mani-
and that lucky mace strike may as well never have happened. The stamina
loss is only signficant if you would be chasing that mage across a wide
area. In 'experienced PVP' combat the entire transaction takes place in
seconds, not minutes. Why do you suppose many tank mages are happy with
only 30 dex? Being knocked down to 15 stamina is a minor irritation.
They should increase damage by melee weapons by 10% across the board, and
increase the effect of stamina loss by 30-50% before melee warriors can
notice a chance in fighting a mage. It's called tweaking- not nerfing,
not superduping- just tweaking.
Jeff Gentry
: However much damage a mace weapon may do it isnt enough. A mage
: just has to step a few squares a way, press his macro key for In Vas Mani-
: and that lucky mace strike may as well never have happened. The stamina
Just how slow are you? Now that weapon damage is applied at the *Start*
of the animation, a warrior can usually get in and swing before a mage
finishes a cast. Hell, I had a warrior char that's not even a maxxed
out PvP machine (he's my PvM char) beat down a PvP mage (and I've never
PvP'd with a warrior before) simply because his 99 dex & katana were
interupting everything he tried to cast.
: seconds, not minutes. Why do you suppose many tank mages are happy with
: only 30 dex? Being knocked down to 15 stamina is a minor irritation.
Not until you can't move. I start a fight w/ 20 dex and no armour.
Trust me, it didn't take long for me to figure out I sure as hell
better have red potions.
: They should increase damage by melee weapons by 10% across the board, and
Umm, why not just make the weapons instakill? Its already pretty balanced
if you don't suck.
John Wagner
: Michael Ball (bd...@XXXXncf.ca) wrote:
: : But if we look at the basic skills, a better question might be, can a warrior: beat a mage with these skill sets (I am assuming both skilled players)?
: Debates like this are very tough to talk about. 99.9% of my PvP experience
: in UO is as a mage. Thus, if I'm playing a warrior and get into a scrap,
: I'm not nearly as effective as I would if I'm a mage. Also, certain
: fighting "Styles" fit better into peoples general "rythym" if that makes sense.
[snip] not only is 99.9% of your PVP experience as a mage- 99% of
PVP in general is as mages! Anyone- anyone at all- when was ANYONE PKd by
someone with a mace weapon? Come on speak up! Gee, I wonder why
John
Michael Ball
>[snip] all of these 'warrior wins versus mage' arguments assume the
>warrior is using a deadly poisoned weapon. Sorry, but my mace-wielding
>figher doesn't have that option. How a mage can whip a fighter nearly
>every time:
This is an interesting observation... if fighters are as good as mages (as
many people have posted in this thread), why has every PK attempt on my
character's life been by a magic user... hmmm..
I am talking PK'er, not a guild-war or some 'mutual' PvP battle.
Lilith
John Wagner
: John Wagner (jwa...@emory.edu) wrote:
: : However much damage a mace weapon may do it isnt enough. A mage
: : just has to step a few squares a way, press his macro key for In Vas Mani-
: : and that lucky mace strike may as well never have happened. The stamina
: Just how slow are you? Now that weapon damage is applied at the *Start*
: of the animation, a warrior can usually get in and swing before a mage
: finishes a cast. Hell, I had a warrior char that's not even a maxxed
: out PvP machine (he's my PvM char) beat down a PvP mage (and I've never
: PvP'd with a warrior before) simply because his 99 dex & katana were
: interupting everything he tried to cast.
I've also had may bard kill a Terethan Avenger with a simple bow.
I guess the question is- what is the background? You say you kept getting
swings in and you SAY this was an experienced PVP mage- but was this a
closed room duel or something? I have never known a PK mage to stand
still, of course in this anecdotal bit of evidence you like to tout as the
'balance of Melee vs Magery' you leave out _quite a bit of background
information_. I say- a Master mage, through the simple use of the greater
heal spell, barring bad link, can 9 out of 10 times woop a GM warrior. My
statement has been corroborated numerous times; all you have is an
anecdotal example without ANY background information.
John
Michael Ball
>Michael Ball (bd...@XXXXncf.ca) wrote:
>affective in PvP (dunno 1st hand, just what I'veh eard), and it allows
>for potion drinking. That's why you see a lot of katanas floating around.
Ah yes, I forgot certain melee weapons allow for you to drink potions while
they are equipped. Since I am not a PvP-type-of-player and my main weapon is a
bow, I always have to de-equip to drink a GH. For some reason I can hold a
30lb sword and drink a potion but I can't hold a 5lb bow and drink one as
well... stupid game :)
(I know, I know, OSI was stopping the rampant PK-GH machine).
Lilith
Jeff Gentry
: (I know, I know, OSI was stopping the rampant PK-GH machine).
If you look closely at lots of things like this, its roots to indeed
lie in them making a half assed brute force attempt to stop some sort
of "cheap" behaviour (either a pure cheat or just something that is
way too powerful a combo) - yet when the base causes for that imbalance
cease to exist, they never go back and revisit their brute force stopgap
measure.
For instance - when they made that change, melee weapons *sucked*. Only
the craziest and/or best (sometimes they're the same ;P) PvP'd regularly
with melee weapons (and won). Archer/Mages were the kings of the roost
for hte most part. Well, so they made it htat archers can't use potions.
Cut forward 6 months and now melee weapons are *better* than bows -
*especially* a katana. A katana vs. a bow is just such an imbalanced
match it ain't even funny. Yet they never looked back and said "hmmm,
in this fight shouldn't it be the archer who has potions, if either of
them do?"
Lots of examples like that.
Jeff Gentry
: This is an interesting observation... if fighters are as good as mages (as
: character's life been by a magic user... hmmm..
Actually if you look closely at PK demographics, these things have
come and gone. There are a lot more warrior PKs (and this time last
year "archer PKs") relative to mage-PKs then there were in the
early days, no doubt.
Some of this I think comes down to "PK" vs "PvP". There is no question
that as far as massive, immediate damage - the mage is the better
choice. PKs tend to strike quickly, without warning, and on opponents
that have trouble fighting back (injured, busy, new, etc).
On the flip side, when you talk about "PvP" ... generally in a
"real fight", a seasoned PvPer is skilled enough to handle such
an initial onslaught (For instance, the dreaded "first shot" means
a lot less against a seasoned PvPer who won't freak out compared to
someone who hardly ever fights in PvP). In a "PvP" fight, generally
he who can hold out the longest wins - not he who deals out the
most damage in the first 3 seconds of the battle.
And that right there is the difference. IMO mages excel in a
"quick strike" situation, whereas a melee fighter starts to
gain ground and eventually pass the mage in "advantage" the longer
a fight draws on.
: I am talking PK'er, not a guild-war or some 'mutual' PvP battle.
Yeapper - see above. Its the nature of Pking - if you saw some red
idiot running up to you with a sword, you'd probably just run away :P
since they can attack you from the other side of the screen as a mage,
that reduces your response time.
Michael Ball
>Michael Ball (bd...@XXXXncf.ca) wrote:
> warrior: beat a mage with these skill sets (I am assuming both skilled
> players)?
>
>Debates like this are very tough to talk about. 99.9% of my PvP experience
>in UO is as a mage. Thus, if I'm playing a warrior and get into a scrap,
>I'm not nearly as effective as I would if I'm a mage. Also, certain
>fighting "Styles" fit better into peoples general "rythym" if that makes sense.
>a few skill sets and say "who wins". The person, lag, Lady Luck, etc
>all enters into it.
I guess that is why so many PK'ers are mages (not saying that you are a
PK'er :). From what I am seeing, once you have a few magic skills (and be
very well at those skills) you can start PK'ing away. There is not too much
else you can do tactics-wise but blast away will all guns.
On the other hand, a warrior should have not only tactics and weapon skills,
but some other goodies (resist magic, explosives, potions, poisoned weapons,
etc), to sort of balance them out. I assume this is too much work for the
average PK' dewd, therefore they usually are mages. Now, if you are a newbie
or average warrior, you may not have the game-play skill or these special
goodies to combat an experienced mage, even if your stats and skills
*in-the-raw* say otherwise. Which is what the original poster had complained
about.
Original Question: Basically, on paper my character is really good, so why do
I get killed so easily from mages.
Answer: There are game-play skills and other goodies your warrior needs to
offset the PK-mage.
Well, I hope this thread cleared all that up. *whew* :)
Lilith
Jeff Gentry
: I guess the question is- what is the background? You say you kept getting
: swings in and you SAY this was an experienced PVP mage- but was this a
: closed room duel or something? I have never known a PK mage to stand
This was on Shame 3 ... the southern "Mage tower" (my terms for them - the
one that doesn't have the poison ele spawn). He was running around quite
a bit, but we were about equal in speed, so we'd be neck in neck. Then he'd
stop, start to cast, I'd stop, swing, he'd get damaged and interupted
just bout every time (he got 2 in vas manis and 3 ebolts off total -
I saw at least 3-4 more in vas mani's, 2 recalls, and probably another 4-5
ebolts if not more).
: heal spell, barring bad link, can 9 out of 10 times woop a GM warrior. My
: statement has been corroborated numerous times; all you have is an
: anecdotal example without ANY background information.
Only if said mage is quite a bit faster than that warrior. If that warrior
has a high dex and fast weapon, they can make up about half a screen length
and strike before the mage gets the spell off.
Michael Ball
> [snip] not only is 99.9% of your PVP experience as a mage- 99% of
>PVP in general is as mages! Anyone- anyone at all- when was ANYONE PKd by
>someone with a mace weapon? Come on speak up! Gee, I wonder why
Just once, just ONCE, could a PK'er attack me with a sword or something other
than magic missile, paralyze and then the usual hurling of E-Bolts,
expolosions, etc... it is getting very boring. Come on, showsome imagaination.
I think you should have to write a PK exam on 10 different ways to attack and
beat a player, and 9 cannot include magic :)
Lilith
Michael Ball
>If you look closely at lots of things like this, its roots to indeed
>lie in them making a half assed brute force attempt to stop some sort
>of "cheap" behaviour (either a pure cheat or just something that is
>way too powerful a combo) - yet when the base causes for that imbalance
>cease to exist, they never go back and revisit their brute force stopgap
>measure.
>For instance - when they made that change, melee weapons *sucked*. Only
>the craziest and/or best (sometimes they're the same ;P) PvP'd regularly
>with melee weapons (and won). Archer/Mages were the kings of the roost
>for hte most part. Well, so they made it htat archers can't use potions.
>Cut forward 6 months and now melee weapons are *better* than bows -
>*especially* a katana. A katana vs. a bow is just such an imbalanced
>match it ain't even funny. Yet they never looked back and said "hmmm,
>in this fight shouldn't it be the archer who has potions, if either of
>them do?"
I completely agree!!! I was using bow since Jan '98 (because I am a Ranger).
Then bow (well actually x-bows) became the PK weapon of choice. So they nixed
potion drinking and nerf archery. I have complained in the past that this
was too much and that archery is basically dumb now, but everyone states that
it is balanced now. Yes OSI never looks at their methods of curbing cheats or
abusers. What they did to archery is like most 'fixes', they swing the
pendulum too far in correcting a problem.
Lilith
P.S. Wow, I can't believe me and Jeff agree on something :)
Jeff Gentry
: [snip] not only is 99.9% of your PVP experience as a mage- 99% of
: PVP in general is as mages! Anyone- anyone at all- when was ANYONE PKd by
: someone with a mace weapon? Come on speak up! Gee, I wonder why
See my response to Lillith elsewhere in the thread of why magery is indeed
a superior choice for *PK* but not necessarily *PVP*. And actually,
you're wrong. For the better part of a year the standard PK was an archer.
Currently, mages do devestating damage in the opening seconds of a fight
(well, can - a smart mage doesn't blast 100 mana at someone in a real PvP
fight), whereas warriors are more capable of doing smaller, steadier doses
of damage. In a "PK" situation, you need to hit *hard* and *fast*. In
a "fight" you can afford to allow for more time.
That is the difference.
Mages are better for a quick strike. Warriors are better for a drawn
out fight. You guys are talking about PKing, which is a *vastly* different
combat style then a PvP fight. (By PKing I'm referencing an attack on
a pretty much unsuspecting victim who probably can't fight back - as opposed
to fighting a more or less equivalent opponent who at least has some
inkling they're going to be attacked soon).
Michael Ball
>increase the effect of stamina loss by 30-50% before melee warriors can
>notice a chance in fighting a mage. It's called tweaking- not nerfing,
>not superduping- just tweaking.
No, No, No. You can't tweak.... only nerf... look what happened to archery.
Small changes are not allowed in the OSI programming guidebook - they must
over-compensate and, um, call it a Patch.
Lilith
(who has seen 100's of arrows pile up around monsters, to which point I give
up and e-bolt the darn thing to death before dying of embarassment)
jx...@po.cwru.edu
>
> In article <GvyQ2.666$Oz.1...@homer.alpha.net>, "ReDRuM" <red...@powerweb.net> wrote:
> >You know what else is funny? The mage spends thousands of gold to get that
> >ONE skill, while the warrior spends.... What is it? 500gp for a polar bear,
>
> Come on... no GM tank mage is without their gang of mule characters.... gold
> is almost meaningless in this game to any experienced player...
96 magery, 97 strength, 0 mules :P
-Smedley, Daemon Summoner
jx...@po.cwru.edu
>
> However much damage a mace weapon may do it isnt enough. A mage
> just has to step a few squares a way, press his macro key for In Vas Mani-
> and that lucky mace strike may as well never have happened.
Blunty, a tank mage has no stamina. I have 97 strength, 100 int, 28
dex, last time I got hit with a mace, I could move a total of ONE step.
And my In Vas Mani got interrupted easily. All I can say is, refresh
potions save lives :P
-Smedley, Daemon Summoner
Jeff Gentry
: it is balanced now. Yes OSI never looks at their methods of curbing cheats or: abusers. What they did to archery is like most 'fixes', they swing the
Yeap. Magery got hit with this *many* times (I've forgotten The List,
however). But there were sooooo many things that they put in a quick
fix, and then didn't reset back when the underlying cause was "really
fixed"
: P.S. Wow, I can't believe me and Jeff agree on something :)
Well, when i'm not being rude & insensitive sometimes I have worthwhile
things to say :P
jx...@po.cwru.edu
>
> [snip] all of these 'warrior wins versus mage' arguments assume the
> warrior is using a deadly poisoned weapon. Sorry, but my mace-wielding
> figher doesn't have that option. How a mage can whip a fighter nearly
> every time:
You rarely see shields in PvP, the fighter uses the free hand for
potions. Last one I fought against (a mace user) uses strength and
dexterity potions to boost his weapons speed and damage. He also
started a bandage upon drinking the strength potion.
> 2) Mage runs from fighter, gettinga screen away
> 3) Mage casts explosion
> 4) Fighter pursuing now on screen
> 5) Mage targets fighter, begins to cast Flame Strike
Firstly, the successful casting of an explosion spell is obvious, the
mage automatically turns towards his target, with no leg movement as
from turning via mouse. My targetting the fighter with an explosion was
followed immediately by the fighter running offscreen, giving him time
to deal with the explosion damage before I could hit him with a
followup.
Secondly, flamestrike doesn't do enough consistent damage to be worth
using in PvP, and also takes a bit longer to cast.
Also, this particular fighter, while we're at close range (that is, when
he isn't far enough to run offscreen), tossed a purple at me everytime I
started casting something. I succeed in casting that given spell, but
any follow up spell was always interrupted or at least delayed while I
moved to avoid the purple.
> 6) Fighter gets near mage
> 7) Explosion takes effect, then flame strike; 99 str fighter
> now down to a sliver of health
And healed as quickly. In the particular fight I'm using as a
counter-example, he started his bandage the moment he drank the strength
potion at the beginning of the fight.
> 8) Fighter strikes mage doing good half of health damage
> 9) Mage moves back a few steps and casts IN-VAS-Mani, now
> back to full health
Assuming a mace, and assuming the mage has minimal dex (I have 28, the
rest is str and int), the mage gets one, maybe two steps, and the
fighter will do his best to follow closely enough to have a good chance
at interrupting that heal. In this case, the fighter I was fighting
against also drank a refresh potion and ran through me, causing me a bit
of two-step lag when I was trying to get space to cast, and would've
killed me had I not have my own heal and refresh potions.
> 10)Fighter at this point could de-equip shield and quaff
> a Greater Heal potion, healing maybe 18 hps, less
> than the effect of an E-Bolt.
Plus a bandage for 50 or so hp, after taking into account the reduction
from magical hits.
> 11) Mage casts E-Bolt.
> 12) Fighter dead.
Heh, sorry, but the fighter didn't die. Neither did I, and I'm not too
sure how the fight would've gone, since he was grey and left when
another person (a known noto-pk) came in.
-Smedley, Daemon Summoner
jx...@po.cwru.edu
>
> Jeff Gentry (gen...@rpi.edu) wrote:
> : Michael Ball (bd...@XXXXncf.ca) wrote:
> : : But if we look at the basic skills, a better question might be, can a warrior: beat a mage with these skill sets (I am assuming both skilled players)?
> : Debates like this are very tough to talk about. 99.9% of my PvP experience
> : in UO is as a mage. Thus, if I'm playing a warrior and get into a scrap,
> : I'm not nearly as effective as I would if I'm a mage. Also, certain
> : fighting "Styles" fit better into peoples general "rythym" if that makes sense.
>
> PVP in general is as mages! Anyone- anyone at all- when was ANYONE PKd by
> someone with a mace weapon? Come on speak up! Gee, I wonder why
I did get pked by a mace. Which is when I started paying much more
attention to refresh potions in combat.
-Smedley, Daemon Summoner
Lord Queso
>however). But there were sooooo many things that they put in a quick
>fix, and then didn't reset back when the underlying cause was "really
>fixed"
Magery is just lucky enough to not be completley nerfed because there are so
many new spells to turn to if one is nerfed.
Queso, Guildmaster of The Yellow Knights of Moonglow, 100% Pure Master Mage
Moonglow (Atlantic)
"I'm going to rescue him. It's my duty. It's my duty as a complete and utter
bastard!"
-Arnold Judas Rimmer
jx...@po.cwru.edu
>
> In article <7f01al$lkd$1...@curly.cc.emory.edu>, jwa...@emory.edu (John Wagner) wrote:
> >[snip] all of these 'warrior wins versus mage' arguments assume the
> >warrior is using a deadly poisoned weapon. Sorry, but my mace-wielding
> >figher doesn't have that option. How a mage can whip a fighter nearly
> >every time:
>
> many people have posted in this thread), why has every PK attempt on my
> character's life been by a magic user... hmmm..
A possible reason: magic was THE way to kill people in the past, and
many pk characters are carry-overs. This results in the newer pks also
going the magic route, thinking if so many past pks used magic to pk,
magic is the way to go.
Another possible reason: magic is ranged, and thus simpler to use in
PvP.
I have no doubt there are other reasons. My personal reason for using a
mage in PvP is that I have not much experience with melee in general, my
first character being an archer, and my second (and main) a mage.
-Smedley, Daemon Summoner
Lord Queso
I've never seen a PK mage alone, but if they were, sure they would not stand
still, common sense.
> I say- a Master mage, through the simple use of the greater
>heal spell, barring bad link, can 9 out of 10 times woop a GM warrior. My
>statement has been corroborated numerous times; all you have is an
>anecdotal example without ANY background information.
>
Look, a few things. #1, YOU THINK IT'S BAD NOW? Melee guys have it better then
they ever have before so thank your lucky stars for it.
I dont care what you say, but a melee guy can easily beat a mage, it's a fact,
it happens to me all the time, it happens to my friends. Just because you don't
know how does not mean it does not happen. THEY ARE BALANCED. And if mages
have any advantage, it is a good thing, magery is far more expensive in time
and gold and SHOULD not be equal to melee, I know, I have built and used
charecters of both types.
Jeff Gentry
: I guess that is why so many PK'ers are mages (not saying that you are a
: very well at those skills) you can start PK'ing away. There is not too much
: else you can do tactics-wise but blast away will all guns.
It *is* easier to learn enough to kill people with it. I think being
a successful PvP warrior requires more finesse and "skill" as a player
than being a mage does. Personally, I am a mage because that was what
I started as with my character, the first day of LS. I don't really
want to change "main characters" ... Loki Dahlmarth *is* a mage and
always will be, even if they nerf it to hell.
: On the other hand, a warrior should have not only tactics and weapon skills,
: but some other goodies (resist magic, explosives, potions, poisoned weapons,
: etc), to sort of balance them out. I assume this is too much work for the
Again to be fair, both sides need lil tricks of the trade. IMO a
poisoned blade (deadly poison) doesn't balance, it throws the ball
into the warrior's court (in most cases).
: Original Question: Basically, on paper my character is really good, so why d
: I get killed so easily from mages.
: Answer: There are game-play skills and other goodies your warrior needs to
: offset the PK-mage.
Here's an addendum to the answer (goes beyond game-play skills) ...
what most non-PvPers don't realize (and sadly, most of the deWdz) is
that a *huge* factor in "PvP skill" comes down to intimidation,
attitude & psyching out the opponent. THere is nothing better then
to get your opponent panicing (which, if you recall, I stated that "first
shot" is a lot more devestating vs. a non PvPer then a PvPer ...
I personally don't get all freaked out when someone shoots me - yet
I have been with some of my non-PvP friends when we get jumped by
PKs and they'll *bolt* or just freeze, or whatever).
Couple of examples ...
Cut back to last march. Loki was your typicla tank mage (GM magery,
GM tactics, GM in either swords or maces (ferget which), blah blah) ...
well, archery was de-nerfed .... and melee weapons were pretty
pathetic. Well, when I would arm my weapon, people who knew me (you'll
notice that PvPers tend to run in the same circles. I saw pretty
much the same crew day in & day out) would point out that I was
useless and target me. One day I picked up a bow. I didn't even
powergame the skill - let it go up naturally. Despite the fact that my
melee skill was GM and my archery was < 50, my pvp "skill" increased
dramatically - people would see the bow and be concerned.
Another example - I recently created a char for PvM. From day one
I made sure that he looked like a viable threat - even tho he
was a "journeyman warrior" (or whatever). And you know what? Never
got hassled by "Blue PKs", and has only been attacked once (2 red
PKs jumped him). He wears identical clothes & armour now that he
*is* a viable threat (he is the char I used in the example of the Mage
warrior battle ... essentially he stole my monster loot (tho to
be fair he thought I stole his kill ... long story), and I thought
I'd test out the waters :P).
Or, talk to Jaquar about his encounter with a tank thief named
OCTOPUSSY in Wind. I sat there and watched him essentially intimidate
the thief into giving back all his stuff :P
Think back to the Animal channel. Ya know how all the males strut
around and try to look tough? The more that you can make yourself
look like a challenge, the less you get hassled. And the meaner
you seem in a fight, the more psyched out your opponent will be.
Lord Queso
>"quick strike" situation, whereas a melee fighter starts to
>gain ground and eventually pass the mage in "advantage" the longer
>a fight draws on.
Finnaly someone understands. The mage does have the ability to do this massive
damage, but after he does....if you live...and he is a pure mage....he is
recaling or he is dead.
Yes, a huge number of pk's are mages because they are much much better for
pk's, but in real PvP there is a balance.
jx...@po.cwru.edu
>
> A possible reason: magic was THE way to kill people in the past, and
> many pk characters are carry-overs. This results in the newer pks also
> going the magic route, thinking if so many past pks used magic to pk,
> magic is the way to go.
Addendum: I mean after the archery nerfing, before the melee un-nerfing
-Smedley, Daemon Summoner
Jeff Gentry
: Magery is just lucky enough to not be completley nerfed because there are so
: many new spells to turn to if one is nerfed.
Also, it seems like whenver they nerf one spell the totally screw the
pooch and de-nerf another :P *Especially* in the early days when
magery changed about every other week ... every patch day, my
friends and I would sit and try all the spells in diff combos to see
what was the uberspell of the patch. It actually paid off because
it generally meant we had that much more of an advantage in a fight
for a day or two (until everyone figured out that XYZ was instakill
for that patch).
Canticle
> Also, it seems like whenver they nerf one spell the totally screw the
> pooch and de-nerf another :P *Especially* in the early days when
> magery changed about every other week ... every patch day, my
> friends and I would sit and try all the spells in diff combos to see
> what was the uberspell of the patch. It actually paid off because
> it generally meant we had that much more of an advantage in a fight
> for a day or two (until everyone figured out that XYZ was instakill
> for that patch).
Like the one kill Lightning Bolt?
My favourite experience of the time was being attacked by 3 Dreads.
I saw one casting lightning bolt, IMMEDIATELY equipped my Shield of
Spell Reflection.
All three of them charred themselves, and I finally had enough cash to
buy my first home :)
Jeff-boy
Jeff Gentry
: Like the one kill Lightning Bolt?
Well, it was only 1 hit kill if you wore the wrong armour :P
I believe back then the *base* damage for a GM lightning bolt
was 55 points of damage. (So for all you people who think that
today's average of 25 or so for an *energy* bolt should be thankful
heh) ...
But you'd get that spam on the side: "SoandSo's plate gloves take
extra damage. SoandSo's plate helm takes extra damage ... etc"
Yeah. Those were the days :)
John Wagner
: >And that right there is the difference. IMO mages excel in a
: >"quick strike" situation, whereas a melee fighter starts to
: >gain ground and eventually pass the mage in "advantage" the longer
: >a fight draws on.
: Finnaly someone understands. The mage does have the ability to do this massive
: damage, but after he does....if you live...and he is a pure mage....he is
: recaling or he is dead.
: Yes, a huge number of pk's are mages because they are much much better for
: pk's, but in real PvP there is a balance.
I think if 1) The warrior is prepared to go into PVP that is a big
plus. If it is an attack from the blue and the warrior is equipping a
shield versus a monster he is in a disadvantaged situation, because he
_must_ de-equip that shield or 2 handed weapon to heal himself. If a PK
mage is, oddly enough, the target of attack the situation becomes a bit
more balanced. A mage however, can still simply cast two paralyzes in a
row (the first to take out the trapped box many people carry, the second
to be effective) and hence neutralize a warrior threat.
However if a mage is 'farming monsters' and a PK wanders along and
strikes the mage can immediately Greater Heal himself, and has a much
higher survivability factor against a mage attacker.
If a PK attacks with melee weapons all a person has to do is run a
bit away and KOP out, or just round a corner and hide. Barring the
unlikely event the pure meleer has detect hidden skill, he is safe for a
bit.
John
Jeff Gentry
: I think if 1) The warrior is prepared to go into PVP that is a big
: more balanced. A mage however, can still simply cast two paralyzes in a
: row (the first to take out the trapped box many people carry, the second
: to be effective) and hence neutralize a warrior threat.
: However if a mage is 'farming monsters' and a PK wanders along and
: strikes the mage can immediately Greater Heal himself, and has a much
: higher survivability factor against a mage attacker.
*anyone* who gets involved in a PK situation when they're not
expecting it is at a *supreme* disadvantage. *Especially* the type
of people who tend to get attacked by PKs (IE non-PvPers). Don't
delude yourself into thinking that the mage is magically more adept
at handeling it. Someone who isn't into PvP is going to be like
a deer caught in the headlights no matter what they are.
Bob Roland
> A possible reason: magic was THE way to kill people in the past, and
> many pk characters are carry-overs. This results in the newer pks also
> going the magic route, thinking if so many past pks used magic to pk,
> magic is the way to go.
Well, the people who are the best antis don't use magic. Magic is good
for surprise attacks, and assuming that your target can't react quickly
(or smartly) enough. The PK mage can recall in, try to kill target and
recall out.
The best people at PvP though are NOT mages. That's because those
people look for someone to attack them, then responds.
In an even battle, the mage is a weak sister to the easily created
swordsman.
Great Bob
ReDRuM
precast explosion, equip weapon of choice, when their at 50% or lower
unequip and target victim, ebolt or fs for the finishing touch. Well, that's
how I fight anyway. It works pretty good too. Only uses up 20-60 mana. And
if you have high meditation/mana it shouldn't be a problem.
Tony W
> [snip] not only is 99.9% of your PVP experience as a mage- 99% of
>PVP in general is as mages! Anyone- anyone at all- when was ANYONE PKd by
>someone with a mace weapon? Come on speak up! Gee, I wonder why
I was PKed by someone with a war axe last week.
Tony W.
John Wagner
Tony W
>: > [snip] not only is 99.9% of your PVP experience as a mage- 99% of
>: >PVP in general is as mages! Anyone- anyone at all- when was ANYONE PKd by
>: >someone with a mace weapon? Come on speak up! Gee, I wonder why
>:
>: I was PKed by someone with a war axe last week.
>:
>: Tony W.
>:
> Were they part of a larger group at the time?
Nope.
Tony W.
John Wagner
Ok, was the war axe deadly poisoned? Also, what were the specifics, i.e.
were you wounded fighting a monster, thought it was so funny you forgot to
run or recall, what?
John
jx...@po.cwru.edu
>
> Ok, was the war axe deadly poisoned?
Can't poison a war axe. And I've tried.
Also, what were the specifics, i.e.
> were you wounded fighting a monster, thought it was so funny you forgot to
> run or recall, what?
> John
Tell me if you can run or recall with no stamina and somebody stabbing
you with a kryss. Anybody I see alternating between a mace weapon and a
fencing weapon is somebody I'm going to keep my distance from....
-Smedley, Daemon Summoner
Daniel
John Wagner wrote:
> Tony W (mi...@camtech.net.au) wrote:
> : On 16 Apr 1999 09:11:30 -0400, jwa...@emory.edu (John Wagner) wrote:
> :
> : >: > [snip] not only is 99.9% of your PVP experience as a mage- 99% of
> : >: >PVP in general is as mages! Anyone- anyone at all- when was ANYONE PKd by
> : >: >someone with a mace weapon? Come on speak up! Gee, I wonder why
> : >:
> : >: I was PKed by someone with a war axe last week.
> : >:
> : >: Tony W.
> : >:
> : > Were they part of a larger group at the time?
> :
> : Nope.
> :
> : Tony W.
> :
>
> Ok, was the war axe deadly poisoned? Also, what were the specifics, i.e.
> were you wounded fighting a monster, thought it was so funny you forgot to
> run or recall, what?
> John
This is rather funny actually...Since most people who play UO try and
powergame and go for the 'cool' skills. What's even funnier, is people
get so caught up in this trend they don't look to try other characters. In the few
months I've played UO (Glorious yadda, yadda, yadda) I've explored many
char types. In evaluation I found some disturbing (though expected) results.
Note this data is mainly for single duel pvp, multiple numbers are never a matter
of pvp. Plus I gathered most of this from The Abyss (don't pvp much on normal
shards) but also modified it based on normal shard differences.
Pure mages: This one is variable. If your opponent has low resist it can do fine,
though if they can take the 100 mana of spells (few In Vas Manis or Gheals) then
the mage will quickly die. Best defence: take the mana, then go for the kill.
Med
is too slow to be effective for pvp (except while they're paralysed).
Tankmages: Popular, but effectiveness is questionable. Tankmages work well
due to their flexibility. Combine it with anatomy and it works well. Though
again,
if you can take the mana, you can wipe the floor due to often low dex. Even
funnier
are the tanks who wear full -15 plate instead of archer suits. *sighs* Still,
they are
often very effective for pvp. (I hate bone armour -looks horrible)
Archers: Another 'cool' char class, though really quite poor. Unless you have 100
dex, supremely acc +23 archery bows and and 100 skill you will hit so infrequently
that anyone can do anything between the shots. Combined with the equip delay it
is too slow. However, a fast moving archer can give an advantage (as everything).
I agree with some other comments; poor to begin with, nerfed to nothing.
Warrior with fairly high magery: 100 str/dex combos kill. Simply the most deadly
char I've seen (doh, here they come). Mages don't stand a chance against a kryss,
and only one managed to recall out that I fought. I suggest poisoning over say,
parry due to deadlies and the ignorance on poison effectiveness. Simply, I used
this char for a couple of hours on the Abyss and found him unstoppable in singles.
As for maces though, I don't like them. A mace is pretty fast, but odd choice for
pvp.
Considering I did all of this with my Australia connection, it scares me how
effective
the latter could be for low ping users.. Oh well, should be plenty of discussion
on
this I suppose, so I've said enough. :)
--
Daniel
jx...@po.cwru.edu
>
> Warrior with fairly high magery:
Why the high magery? With only 25 mana, I can think of better things to
do with those skillpoints....
100 str/dex combos kill. Simply the most deadly
> char I've seen (doh, here they come). Mages don't stand a chance against a kryss,
> and only one managed to recall out that I fought. I suggest poisoning over say,
> parry due to deadlies and the ignorance on poison effectiveness. Simply, I used
> this char for a couple of hours on the Abyss and found him unstoppable in singles.
Unfortunately, singles aren't that common....in group combat, I take it
people like magery better because of the faster damage, and since it's
ranged, people can't get in your way as easily.
> As for maces though, I don't like them. A mace is pretty fast, but odd choice for
> pvp.
Not so odd if you think about the extra "stun" ability....I'm a mage
with 28 dex, one hit from a mace and I get one step before running out
of stamina :0
-Smedley, Daemon Summoner