Thievery issues...
Andrew Blackwell
thief who enjoys what he does and furthur enjoys banter with the mark
after the theft. I was quite happy when they put the new thief changes
in. I am glad that we have a guild now with a no murder policy. I hate
tank thieves. My major problems are with stealth, snooping & stealth,
and stealing.
Of those skills, Robin Sage has 100 in each.
Lets start with stealth:
I think the number of steps you can take while hidden should be moved
back to what it was before. Halving the number seriously cripples our
ability to get away without a recall. I hide and wait.....steatlth and
take 8 steps and wait to stealth again. Even the most inept person would
have time to open his spellbook, scroll to reveal, and cast it...maybe
two or three times. WHile I sit patiently waiting to be discovered.
Snoopinng & Stealth:
At 100 in each of these, I dont think I should be revealed when I snoop
into someone's pack. I have heard it proposed that snooping only reveals
you when you fail. I think this a great idea. It gives a rogue more
incentive to concentrate on rogue related skills and not some other
combat skill or something. Maybe if snooping and stealth are over a
certain level, you can snoop without being revealed.
Stealing:
It took me a long time to get Grandmaster Stealing because I didn't macro
at all from 65 to 100. I sat with Drub and we stole back and forth and
chatted strategy while stealing crept toward 100. Now since the
fisherman patch, we have been roaming town and revealing macro fishers
and stealing all their maps and bottles. Each of these weighs 1 stone.
At least half of the time, I become guard-whackable when I steal one of
these. Does this sound right to you? A grandmaster and I cant reliable
steal one of the lightest elements in the game without being detected. I
just propose that as your skill gets higher, the chance youare detected
for stealing lighter items gets smaller. Like at 100, maybe there
should be a 10% chance that I will be detected for stealing a 1 stone
item. Or maybe less. WHat incentive is their to get to GM Thief if any
schmoe can get you guard-whacked for stealing a 1 stone item. That just
aint right.
okay, I guess that is all. If there is anything else, I wont hesitate to
let you all know, as I'm sure you cant wait.
Robin Sage, Grandmaster Rogue, Baja
DrubDevil
Andrew Blackwell wrote in message <7de3s4$6k0$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>...
>I wanted to bring up some points about thievery. My character is a pure
>I think the number of steps you can take while hidden should be moved
>back to what it was before. Halving the number seriously cripples our
>ability to get away without a recall. I hide and wait.....steatlth and
>take 8 steps and wait to stealth again. Even the most inept person would
>have time to open his spellbook, scroll to reveal, and cast it...maybe
>two or three times. WHile I sit patiently waiting to be discovered.
Its not the steps you can take that bothers me...I've always thought a
better idea would be to make using stealth check hiding and stealth and if
the skill allows it, then you can hide and start stealthing in one shot
rather then hide....skill delay...stealth...Its the delay that kills it. And
its not like that would be a great advantage, you can't run and can only go
so far before having to stealth again.
>Snoopinng & Stealth:
>At 100 in each of these, I dont think I should be revealed when I snoop
>into someone's pack. I have heard it proposed that snooping only reveals
>you when you fail. I think this a great idea. It gives a rogue more
>incentive to concentrate on rogue related skills and not some other
>combat skill or something. Maybe if snooping and stealth are over a
>certain level, you can snoop without being revealed.
They'll argue that it is too easy to get high snooping....DD told me that
they added snooping revealing you because it was to hard to notice a thief
stealing....Well, consider the fact that A) Stealing reveals you and
noticing someone suddenly appear next to you and run is the best way to tell
a thief. Rather then them just strut by you and snag something. And B)
There is still a skill delay after they steal so their only option is to
run.
>
>Stealing:
<snip>
> Each of these weighs 1 stone.
>At least half of the time, I become guard-whackable when I steal one of
>these. Does this sound right to you?
You can get away with it...but it still checks a chance you turn grey. I've
managed stealing 4 1 stone items and staued blue....other times I go grey on
the second and sometimes (but rarely) go grey right away.
-Drub
Damocles
Blackwell) wrote:
>I wanted to bring up some points about thievery. My character is a pure
>thief who enjoys what he does and furthur enjoys banter with the mark
>after the theft. I was quite happy when they put the new thief changes
>in. I am glad that we have a guild now with a no murder policy. I hate
>tank thieves. My major problems are with stealth, snooping & stealth,
>and stealing.
>Of those skills, Robin Sage has 100 in each.
>Lets start with stealth:
<snip>
I don't think you get it. The players have spoken on this one: we do
NOT want it to be easier for you to steal.
You complain about being unable to steal in town without being guard
killed? I say the ability to steal in town should be eliminated
altogether. Can't stealth far enough after stealing? I say there
should be a one minute flag on stealthing after stealing from a
player. Don't like being revealed when snooping? I think you should
not only be revealed, you should be criminally flagged as well.
It's still too easy to be a thief.
--------------
'Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine.'
- Patti Smith, "Gloria"
DrubDevil
Damocles wrote in message <36fbc624....@news.rdc1.va.home.com>...
><snip>
>
>I don't think you get it. The players have spoken on this one: we do
>NOT want it to be easier for you to steal.
No...non-rogues have spoken. Compromise is what we want.
>
>You complain about being unable to steal in town without being guard
>killed? I say the ability to steal in town should be eliminated
>altogether.
Hey that makes a class useful...I hate magery...lets iliminate the ability
to cast more then one spell a day too.
>Can't stealth far enough after stealing? I say there
>should be a one minute flag on stealthing after stealing from a
>player
Go for it...what moron steals...waits beside the victim who should notice
what is going on...and then stealths slowly away...? If i see that happen,
I'll laugh my balls off at the victim and tell him to make sure brain tab A
is inserted correctly into head slot B.
.
>Don't like being revealed when snooping? I think you should
>not only be revealed, you should be criminally flagged as well.
Looking into someone's things a criminal offense? You sure?
>
>It's still too easy to be a thief.
>
Sure...whatever you say.
DrubDevil
Green17 wrote in message ...
>Andrew Blackwell <and...@blue.seas.upenn.edu> wrote in message
>news:7deino$kbc$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
><snip>
>Because as it's possible, death-robed idiots will be harassing other
players
>outside of guard zones with this skill. As long as that's going on, it
>hasn't been hamstrung enough.
Nobody is asking OSI to please make everybody like us... And keep in
mind...It is the harassers that destroy the class...there are harassers and
assholes in every class...The two-million fishing-macroers didn't irritate
you? The bluepk's never got to you? and the soon coming flood of red
harassers won't give you a twitch in the neck? There are just more in the
thieve class....but more easily disposed.
ReDRuM
thief, I'm cool now!". *Waits for the 800 threads saying how wrong Maverick
is*.
ReDRuM
I want the FaG role players removed. Do I get it?
>And try reading my post again. I want the d00d thieves removed.
>What I want is something that is better (and more fun) for *real* rogues,
Eh? Like what? They come up to you, steal, and die? Next thing OSI is
probably gonna do, is make it so thieves can't recall. Oh, their thieves,
let's not give them the power to recall.
>while hamstringing the d00dz. But if it takes getting rid of the real
rogues
>to get rid of the d00dz it's an easy decison for me.
Shutup loser.
Andrew Blackwell
: I don't think you get it. The players have spoken on this one: we do
: NOT want it to be easier for you to steal.
: You complain about being unable to steal in town without being guard
: killed? I say the ability to steal in town should be eliminated
: altogether. Can't stealth far enough after stealing? I say there
: should be a one minute flag on stealthing after stealing from a
: player. Don't like being revealed when snooping? I think you should
: not only be revealed, you should be criminally flagged as well.
No, I dont think you get it. I m not saying there shouldn't be a chance
of going grey for stealing 1 stone item with 100 stealing. There should
be a chance but it shouldn't be like 40%. That is absurd. OSI hsa
hamstrung thieves with the snooping revealing and halving the steps for
stealth. I ask for a slight alleviation.
: It's still too easy to be a thief.
You try to be a good effective thief after all these patches. nd dont
give me that crap about how you had a GM thief 6 months ago, but you let
him atrophy. IT is totally different now.
Green17
news:7deino$kbc$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
<snip>
> give me that crap about how you had a GM thief 6 months ago, but you let
> him atrophy. IT is totally different now.
Begin rant.
I hope it's even tougher in another six months to steal from other players!
Because as it's possible, death-robed idiots will be harassing other players
outside of guard zones with this skill. As long as that's going on, it
hasn't been hamstrung enough.
Rant over. Flame away.
Green17
DrubDevil <bill.c...@whitehouse.gov> wrote in message
news:7demko$o0f$1...@nntp1.uunet.ca...
>
> Green17 wrote in message ...
> >news:7deino$kbc$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
> ><snip>
>
> players
> >outside of guard zones with this skill. As long as that's going on, it
> >hasn't been hamstrung enough.
>
>
> mind...It is the harassers that destroy the class...there are harassers
and
> assholes in every class...The two-million fishing-macroers didn't irritate
> you? The bluepk's never got to you? and the soon coming flood of red
> harassers won't give you a twitch in the neck? There are just more in the
> thieve class....but more easily disposed.
It has to be made *different.* Not getting a murder count for killing
thieves is a good first step, as we can now kill known thieves every time
they come back to our meeting without getting murder counts.
But I can honestly say I'm a little troubled about a set of skills that
exist entirely to screw other players. I've stories about rogues that are
interesting, but all I ever see is
*You see MASTABATES snooping your pack!*
Or, worse yet, I see someone flagged grey just appear in the middle of a
gathering. He runs off. Ten minutes later, I see him again. And again. And
again. And again.
And *that* is what needs to be gotten rid of. If it takes the rogue class
with it, fine. I think it could be done without, however.
Andrew Blackwell
his user name). THey are so obtuse about things. This guy cant find a
way to combat the thieves that steal from him, so he posts "UO could do
without the entire class". My point was that I should not be detected
40% of the time stealing a 1 stone item, when I have max stealing and max
dex.
I am not asking for thieves to be given godhood. I ask for a concession,
and all these morons come wriggling out of the woodwork.
Being a good career thief in UO is like walking through life carrying a
200 lb backpack. We are just crippled. But some people still say, let
them steal once an hour...make snooping turn you grey...your item should
be returned even if you dont detect him...calling guards at any time
should instakill any thieves on your screen.
Isn't not being able to fight back enough. You can kill us at will.
What more do you want?
Grow a brain and deal with the fact that thieves are here and cant be
weakened further. Adapt!
Damocles
Blackwell) wrote:
>Damocles (phae...@yahoo.com) wrote:
>: I don't think you get it. The players have spoken on this one: we do
>: NOT want it to be easier for you to steal.
>
>: You complain about being unable to steal in town without being guard
>: killed? I say the ability to steal in town should be eliminated
>: altogether. Can't stealth far enough after stealing? I say there
>: should be a one minute flag on stealthing after stealing from a
>: player. Don't like being revealed when snooping? I think you should
>: not only be revealed, you should be criminally flagged as well.
>
>No, I dont think you get it. I m not saying there shouldn't be a chance
>of going grey for stealing 1 stone item with 100 stealing. There should
>be a chance but it shouldn't be like 40%. That is absurd. OSI hsa
>hamstrung thieves with the snooping revealing and halving the steps for
>stealth. I ask for a slight alleviation.
You're not going to get one. Did you read the thread above about the
guy who got his large smithy deed stolen by a thief like yourself in
town? 155,000 gold gone just like that. That's why theft is still
unbalanced.
Damocles
<bill.c...@whitehouse.gov> wrote:
>
>Damocles wrote in message <36fbc624....@news.rdc1.va.home.com>...
>
>><snip>
>>
>>I don't think you get it. The players have spoken on this one: we do
>>NOT want it to be easier for you to steal.
>
>
>No...non-rogues have spoken. Compromise is what we want.
>
Why should compromise be given to a small minority of players when the
vast majority don't want it? PvP theft was the number one complaint in
the OSI survey taken a few months ago.
>>
>>You complain about being unable to steal in town without being guard
>>killed? I say the ability to steal in town should be eliminated
>>altogether.
>
>Hey that makes a class useful...I hate magery...lets iliminate the ability
>to cast more then one spell a day too.
Magery is a neutral skill. You can use it to help other players or to
hurt them, it depends on the mage. Stealing is a negative skill that
exists only to be used against other players. That's where the
difference lies.
>.
>>Don't like being revealed when snooping? I think you should
>>not only be revealed, you should be criminally flagged as well.
>
>Looking into someone's things a criminal offense? You sure?
>
Flagged to the person being snooped, yes. Why should I have to stand
there and let some idiot peek through my backpack?
Green17
news:7detgv$nt2$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
> God I hate the people like gre...@whatever.net (didn't bother to check
> his user name). THey are so obtuse about things. This guy cant find a
> way to combat the thieves that steal from him, so he posts "UO could do
> without the entire class". My point was that I should not be detected
> 40% of the time stealing a 1 stone item, when I have max stealing and max
> dex.
What the hell are you smoking? First, attacking my choice of a posting name
is just stupid. Why should I use my real name here? You can find it out
easily enough if you really want. Dejanews should uncover it in about three
seconds. It's a precaution against people I play with accidentally finding
out who I am. If they really want to know, they can find out.
And try reading my post again. I want the d00d thieves removed. They are
still there, which obviously means that there are not enough or not the
right kind of restrictions on the stealing skill.
What I want is something that is better (and more fun) for *real* rogues,
Zaphkiel
>Isn't not being able to fight back enough. You can kill us at will.
>What more do you want?
I want you to feel every ounce of pain, outrage, and loss that you
inflicted on other people. For every person who spent weeks mining
so they could buy a halberd of force only to have you steal it in one
second, I want you to spend weeks wailing and gnashing your teeth.
I want you to suffer exactly as much as the people you preyed upon.
Then, after you've done that, I want to laugh in your face and tell
you that U suk.
>Grow a brain and deal with the fact that thieves are here and cant be
>weakened further. Adapt!
I think non-thieves are adapting pretty well. You seem to be the one
having a problem adapting. I guess it must be hard to find another
parasitical niche to crawl into. You might try looking under rocks.
--Zaphkiel
Tinarandil
DrubDevil wrote in message <7dem4i$nd8$1...@nntp1.uunet.ca>...
>
>Damocles wrote in message <36fbc624....@news.rdc1.va.home.com>...
>
>><snip>
>>
>>I don't think you get it. The players have spoken on this one: we do
>>NOT want it to be easier for you to steal.
>
>
>No...non-rogues have spoken. Compromise is what we want.
I have a post about housing I am editing now. It might be a bit before it
gets up.
>>
>>You complain about being unable to steal in town without being guard
>>killed? I say the ability to steal in town should be eliminated
>>altogether.
>
>Hey that makes a class useful...I hate magery...lets iliminate the ability
>to cast more then one spell a day too.
>
>>should be a one minute flag on stealthing after stealing from a
>
>Go for it...what moron steals...waits beside the victim who should notice
>what is going on...and then stealths slowly away...? If i see that happen,
>I'll laugh my balls off at the victim and tell him to make sure brain tab A
>is inserted correctly into head slot B.
>>Don't like being revealed when snooping? I think you should
>>not only be revealed, you should be criminally flagged as well.
>
>Looking into someone's things a criminal offense? You sure?
money, check how much change I have, etc. I call a cop. He says, "Well, he
didn't TAKE anything, did he?" You go on your way. See something wrong
with this? Not saying that is fair, just that that is what happens in real
life.
>>
>>It's still too easy to be a thief.
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Andrew Blackwell
: inflicted on other people. For every person who spent weeks mining
: so they could buy a halberd of force only to have you steal it in one
: second, I want you to spend weeks wailing and gnashing your teeth.
: I want you to suffer exactly as much as the people you preyed upon.
: Then, after you've done that, I want to laugh in your face and tell
: you that U suk.
You have some serious problems then. I recomment therapy if you take
everything that personally. You seem like the guy nursing hatred in a
dimly lit room with the shades drawn oiling a rifle. Every now and then
peering at the outside world through bloodshot eyes and a disillusioned
haze. Get out more. THe sun can be a nice rejuvenating factor in your life.
: I think non-thieves are adapting pretty well. You seem to be the one
: having a problem adapting. I guess it must be hard to find another
: parasitical niche to crawl into. You might try looking under rocks.
: --Zaphkiel
I dont care what you think. I roleplay my thief and I do it well. Does
Robin Sage sound like a Dewd name? I am merely saying that it is absurd
for A Gm stealer to get detected so much when stealing the minimum weight
item in the game. I dont think I should be unnoticed 100% of the time.
I just dont think I should be noticed about 40% of the time.
Andrew Blackwell
: > God I hate the people like gre...@whatever.net (didn't bother to check
: > his user name). THey are so obtuse about things. This guy cant find a
: > way to combat the thieves that steal from him, so he posts "UO could do
: > without the entire class". My point was that I should not be detected
: > 40% of the time stealing a 1 stone item, when I have max stealing and max
: > dex.
He wrote:
: What the hell are you smoking? First, attacking my choice of a posting name
: is just stupid. Why should I use my real name here? You can find it out
: easily enough if you really want. Dejanews should uncover it in about three
: seconds. It's a precaution against people I play with accidentally finding
: out who I am. If they really want to know, they can find out.
: And try reading my post again. I want the d00d thieves removed. They are
: still there, which obviously means that there are not enough or not the
: right kind of restrictions on the stealing skill.
: What I want is something that is better (and more fun) for *real* rogues,
: while hamstringing the d00dz. But if it takes getting rid of the real rogues
: to get rid of the d00dz it's an easy decison for me.
1) You misunderstood me. I was not attacking your name. I could care
less what you call yourself. I was merely identifying thje person whose
post I was disagreeing with. green17 is a fine name. I view this
newsgroup over a unix system. It displays the email address in the top
left and the real name (if available) in teh top right. I identified you
by the part of your email address that I remembered (green17) and cited
that I didn't check what it displayed in the identify field on the top right.
I dont care who you are.
2) I did read your post. You might painfully clear that you want Dewd
thieves gone, but running a very close second is the thief class.
I want dewd pks gone, does that mean eliminating combat skills? Many
people would argue that dewd pks far outnumber the respectable warriors,
just as you say that dewd thieves are more abundant than good and nice
thieves like me.
Green17
<snip>
> 2) I did read your post. You might painfully clear that you want Dewd
> thieves gone, but running a very close second is the thief class.
Not exactly. I just think Origin has proven that they *can't* balance
skills. I don't think thievery is ever going to be balanced.
I do have problems with an entire class that preys on other players. But a
rogue done right is something else entirely! I *want* to have a rogue
character, but until the d00d thief is gone from the game I don't dare.
There are enough thieves already.
So, basically, I want d00d thieves gone. I want people not to be able to
stealth into our meetings, steal an item and recall or fastwalk away. I
don't know how this can be accomplished without crippling thievery more, but
I'm not a game designer. (Luckily for the real rogues, since I'd disable
stealing until I thought it was right! :)
But I'd really like to see more people using their brains while playing the
rogue class. Not saying you don't, but the thread... I think it was "Looted
by healer, film at 11"... is exactly what I think should be happening with
rogues, and it didn't even involve the or stealth stealing skills.
Lazarus
I play on Atlantic...you?
Lazarus
Zaphkiel <zaph...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19990326030624...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
> >From: and...@red.seas.upenn.edu (Andrew Blackwell)
>
> >Isn't not being able to fight back enough. You can kill us at will.
> >What more do you want?
>
> I want you to feel every ounce of pain, outrage, and loss that you
> inflicted on other people. For every person who spent weeks mining
> so they could buy a halberd of force only to have you steal it in one
> second, I want you to spend weeks wailing and gnashing your teeth.
> I want you to suffer exactly as much as the people you preyed upon.
> Then, after you've done that, I want to laugh in your face and tell
> you that U suk.
>
> >Grow a brain and deal with the fact that thieves are here and cant be
> >weakened further. Adapt!
>
JNTF
agree.You should hear the GM Smiths bitch about how dificult it is to make
GM armor. The concept is to have these things be reality based. I wonder
what the real probabilities are. By the way, can you steal from monsters?
Jery of Woodcliff, Pacific
...Snip...
I just propose that as your skill gets higher, the chance youare detected
> for stealing lighter items gets smaller. Like at 100, maybe there
> should be a 10% chance that I will be detected for stealing a 1 stone
> item. Or maybe less. WHat incentive is their to get to GM Thief if any
> schmoe can get you guard-whacked for stealing a 1 stone item. That just
> aint right.
>
> okay, I guess that is all. If there is anything else, I wont hesitate to
> let you all know, as I'm sure you cant wait.
>
Andrew Blackwell
: rogue class. Not saying you don't, but the thread... I think it was "Looted
: by healer, film at 11"... is exactly what I think should be happening with
: rogues, and it didn't even involve the or stealth stealing skills.
Funny you would mention that post. That was my partner ]}rub]}evil.
Robin Sage, Grandmaster Rogue, Baja
of Team DrubDevil
DrubDevil
Damocles wrote in message <36ff0fae...@news.rdc1.va.home.com>...
>Why should compromise be given to a small minority of players when the
>vast majority don't want it?
Becuase Thief is an offered class by OSI. And even if 1 person played a
thief...they offer it and are expected to upkeep it to some point.
>>>You complain about being unable to steal in town without being guard
>>>killed?
I never said that at all...I would never say that. That would be like a
rogue "god mode" in town.
>> I say the ability to steal in town should be eliminated
>>>altogether.
And I say cooking should be
>Magery is a neutral skill. You can use it to help other players or to
>hurt them, it depends on the mage. Stealing is a negative skill that
>exists only to be used against other players. That's where the
>difference lies.
Not true. Stealing is as well neutral. You can steal from the good or the
bad.
>Flagged to the person being snooped, yes. Why should I have to stand
>there and let some idiot peek through my backpack?
>
You only notice when they fail...So I agree that failling should flag you.
>'Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine.'
>- Patti Smith, "Gloria"
No comment....hehe
-Drub
Zaphkiel
>Well said Zaph!
>I play on Atlantic...you?
>
>Lazarus
I'm on Pacific, the west coast equivalent.
--Zaphkiel
Damocles
>Well, for the idea (below) that a GM should have higher success, I
>agree.You should hear the GM Smiths bitch about how dificult it is to make
>GM armor. The concept is to have these things be reality based. I wonder
>what the real probabilities are. By the way, can you steal from monsters?
A GM thief does have a higher success ratio and can steal larger
items. What he's arguing is that it should be basically 100% success
for light items, so that he could become a deed / rune / key
acquisition factory.
--------------