Noto PKs in Order Guilds...
Chris Harris
I am sorry, call me a whiner if you want... but isn't there
something contradictory about noto-pks being in an Order associated
guild? A friend and I were in the troll room in Wrong, along with 2
other high karma blues... we are all having a troll slaughterfest... in
come two naked mages, who immediately dance all around the room emoting
*stealing* *stealing*, well when that failed to get anyone's attention,
they began casting stone wall to create obstacles... well, when that
still didn't get anyone mad enough to attack them, they then ran up to
my friend, and did an emote of *whateverthenickwas attacks you!* and
followed it with a cast for fireball... well... unfortunately, he fell
for it hook, line, and sinker, and the next thing I know he is dead...
the still Blue mages then loot his body and recall out... and both of
these mages belonged to the same guild, which was an Order based
guild... there ought to be rules of behavior placed on those guilds that
associate with Order... I mean, this is Ultima for crying out loud,
shouldn't Order be required to follow the path of the Avatar?
Damocles
wrote:
Heh, new to the game eh? Order / Chaos players have always been the
scum of the earth. Under the old system, the ones firefielding
adventurers and casting vortexes at quest events were usually Great
Lords. Under the new, it's the gang bang home for idiots. The virtues
never had anything to do with it....most you'll ever see is some
"Order sucks! Chaos rules!" sort of stuff.
If their guild title says either Order or Chaos, chances are he's a
jerk. Don't trust them.
One of the first things you have the learn with UO is that the
"Ultima" is just a brand name. The players make the game, and 99% of
the players can't spell Ultima, let alone play within the mythos.
Chris Harris
side... old enough to see that UO has some serious shortcomings in it's
developement, that just surprise me considering that the Ultima series more
or less required you to be a decent sort of person... not that I believe all
should be forced to confirm to the path of the Avatar, but it seems they
goofed in not putting such restrictions on anything they labled order...
Damocles
wrote:
>new enough to have this have been my first encounter with anyone from either
>side... old enough to see that UO has some serious shortcomings in it's
>developement, that just surprise me considering that the Ultima series more
>or less required you to be a decent sort of person... not that I believe all
>should be forced to confirm to the path of the Avatar, but it seems they
>goofed in not putting such restrictions on anything they labled order...
>
It's a massively multiplayer game. You can't force 250,000 people to
be decent sorts of people, you can only add code to make it harder to
be jerks.
Richard Cortese
news:3836C261...@bright.net...
> guild... there ought to be rules of behavior placed on those guilds that
> associate with Order... I mean, this is Ultima for crying out loud,
> shouldn't Order be required to follow the path of the Avatar?
around here if you say "The Pimp/Ho Wars" everyone will know you are talking
about Order/Chaos thing.
But we have also given up on this game ever becoming an Ultima, it just is
what it is. Just think in terms of most of the idiots playing the game just
want to be able to gank people at banks and OSI wants to keep them as
customers. Ignore them, they won't go away but they mostly just bother each
other.
Zaphkiel
>> I am sorry, call me a whiner if you want... but isn't there
>>something contradictory about noto-pks being in an Order associated
>>guild?
>Heh, new to the game eh? Order / Chaos players have always been the
>scum of the earth. Under the old system, the ones firefielding
>adventurers and casting vortexes at quest events were usually Great
>Lords. Under the new, it's the gang bang home for idiots. The virtues
>never had anything to do with it..
I remember a week after O/C started, I saw three or four Order
guys chasing two Chaos guys around the bank, one of the Order
guys was yelling "JACK HIS SHIT!! JACK HIS SHIT!!!". (for the
non dewd speaking population, he wanted his friends to steal
the enemies bp, root, and weapons so they couldn't recall or fight
back)
That's when I realized that O/C is something to keep the
scum of the earth occupied with each other. If the concept
of Order and Chaos has to be totally perverted and covered with
shit to do it, then it's still worth the sacrifice.
--Zaphkiel
Opium
> something contradictory about noto-pks being in an Order associated
> other high karma blues... we are all having a troll slaughterfest... in
> come two naked mages, who immediately dance all around the room emoting
> *stealing* *stealing*, well when that failed to get anyone's attention,
> they began casting stone wall to create obstacles... well, when that
> still didn't get anyone mad enough to attack them, they then ran up to
> my friend, and did an emote of *whateverthenickwas attacks you!* and
> followed it with a cast for fireball... well... unfortunately, he fell
> for it hook, line, and sinker, and the next thing I know he is dead...
> the still Blue mages then loot his body and recall out... and both of
> these mages belonged to the same guild, which was an Order based
> associate with Order... I mean, this is Ultima for crying out loud,
> shouldn't Order be required to follow the path of the Avatar?
As the others already said the chaos/order system has nothing to do
with the virtues. It's just for these who are to scared to become
red but want to be PKs. Gangbanging is just normal, 10 order kewlios
attack 1 chaos d00d and if he dies the 10 brag and call the ghost
a looser and sucker and pussy and wuss and whatever...
When school is out the number of chaos/order chars at the banks
increase dramatically...
Quaestor
> I am sorry, call me a whiner if you want... but isn't there something
> contradictory about noto-pks being in an Order associated guild?
It's so sad that some of the worst jerks in the game are indeed Order.
Geoffrey Hyde
players don't look where the text is coming from, or at their log first to
see who is actually saying "<name> is attacking you!"
I've seen rather pathetic attempts to convince me that someone's attacking
me when they aren't, and I must say I'm disappointed with them - they could
at least mean what they're emoting. :-P
And thank God (Or the avatar or whoever.) for notoquery.
--
Cheers ...
Geoffrey Hyde
Chris Harris <chr...@bright.net> wrote in message
news:3836C261...@bright.net...
>
> I am sorry, call me a whiner if you want... but isn't there
> something contradictory about noto-pks being in an Order associated
Corwin Of Amber (SBR/LS, WE/ATL)
>with the virtues. It's just for these who are to scared to become
>red but want to be PKs.
Wow, you guys really are crocked.
Many of you guys *say* you want PK'ing to be replaced by consentual
PVP'ing but I read thru this thread and see garbage like this.
Why do any of you give a shit what goes on in Order/Chaos as long as
it is consentual?
And anyone who expects *anything* out of another player just based on
their title, color, criminal flag, whatever, is just an idiot, or very
naieve.
fyi - Order/Chaos had a great night on LS Saturday ... it's truely
your loss if you're not involved.
Corwin
Zaphkiel
>Many of you guys *say* you want PK'ing to be replaced by consentual
>PVP'ing but I read thru this thread and see garbage like this.
What you read is the general opinion of what goes on in O/C
wars. Perhaps you should stop for a moment and think about
*why* that perception exists.
I'll give you a hint. O/C wars happen in town where there are
uninvolved witnesses.
>
>Why do any of you give a shit what goes on in Order/Chaos as long as
>it is consentual?
I don't give a shit. Please knock youself out. My only concern
was explaining that it has nothing, and I do mean nothing, to do
with the original concept of Order and Chaos.
--Zaphkiel
Brandy
on earth are you whining about that?
You did NOT explain in your original post that it had nothing to do with the
original concept, all you did was slam ALL O/C.
OSI has been trying to channel players into consentual PVP instead of PKing.
As someone that does little on this newsgroup but complain about PKing, you
should be the last one to criticize ANY aspect of consentual PVP.
Brandy (WE, LS)
Zaphkiel <zaph...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991121140545...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
Richard Cortese
news:38383d30.6109297@news-server...
> >As the others already said the chaos/order system has nothing to do
> >with the virtues. It's just for these who are to scared to become
> >red but want to be PKs.
>
> Wow, you guys really are crocked.
>
> PVP'ing but I read thru this thread and see garbage like this.
>
> it is consentual?
they are allowed to fight?
I think they took it out of the game after it became the Pimp/Ho wars.
Chaos has nothing to do with Chaos, that is what Lord British tagged them
after Blackthorn came up with an alternative philosophy to his. It is meant
to be derogatory and not really reflect the sentiments or behavior of the
Chaos Guards, but last time I asked MaStA PiMp why he was carrying a Chaos
shield, it was about jacking shit. The peanut brained dipshits we have to
share the game with never see any farther then "Chaos, kewl!".
You can still have all the mechanics and fighting that goes on with the
Pimp/Ho wars, but at least it should reflect some of the fiction of the
Ultima series. Since it bears no sembalance to the series and reflects the
game in no manner whatsoever, it is properly derided.
Read the orignal post again. The whole thread is about and was started
because the original poster noticed how the Order/Chaos guards are just a
bunch of exploiting jerks trying to trick people into going gray. Didn't
that even show up on your news server?
Brandy
are exploiting jerks.
There is a large population of exploiting jerks in nearly every facet of the
game.
WE are just saying that not all O/C are.
Brandy (WE, LS)
Richard Cortese <rico...@netmagic.net> wrote in message
news:s3gt60...@corp.supernews.com...
Quaestor
> Read the orignal post again. The whole thread is about and was started
> because the original poster noticed how the Order/Chaos guards are just a
> bunch of exploiting jerks trying to trick people into going gray. Didn't
> that even show up on your news server?
I would hazzard a guess that it did. What it did not register on was his mind.
Opium
> >with the virtues. It's just for these who are to scared to become
> >red but want to be PKs.
>
> Wow, you guys really are crocked.
>
> Many of you guys *say* you want PK'ing to be replaced by consentual
> PVP'ing but I read thru this thread and see garbage like this.
>
> Why do any of you give a shit what goes on in Order/Chaos as long as
> it is consentual?
>
> their title, color, criminal flag, whatever, is just an idiot, or very
> naieve.
>
> fyi - Order/Chaos had a great night on LS Saturday ... it's truely
> your loss if you're not involved.
Well, I enjoy PvP, was a murderer for a while and participated in many
guildwars. Order/Chaos wars has nothing to do with PvP. It's just
gangbanging. If you are green or orange to the other guilds doesn't
matter, everyone gets attacked (of course only if the attackers
outnumber you at least 3:1). The same characters who swarmed my
chaos warrior at every bank KOPd on sight in a dungeon when they
encountered my murderer. The chaos/order thing is just a free license
for gangbanging in town.
At least the blue healer problem will be solved soon. Every time
I see "virtue guards" fighting they have blue healers with them.
Richard Cortese
news:81a3ta$9bv$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Some O/C are exploiting jerks. Some blues are exploiting jerks. Some
reds
> are exploiting jerks.
hahahahhhaaaaa!
> There is a large population of exploiting jerks in nearly every facet of
the
> game.
Maybe true, but I haven't found a lot of cooks or bowyers to be exploiting
jerks. I am sure there are, but it is a relative thing. I have seen cats
that like water, but in general cats don't like water.
>
> WE are just saying that not all O/C are.
>
> Brandy (WE, LS)
I am not saying that O/C does not perform a useful or desired function in
the game, it does. What I am saying is the original poster was wondering
about the correlation between the O/C of Ultima fiction and as it is
practiced in UO.
Order as it was defined originally meant things like no offensive magic in
town, even against thieves and criminals. It is LB's controlling nature in
that he insists on no fighting in town. No negotiation.
Chaos is the term LB used to describe Lord Black's idea that you should be
able to use any force to pursue the criminals including magic in towns.
Black's concept of justice has to do with some freedom of action in order to
be both compassionate and fair. LB responded to this "It would be Chaos"
ergo the birth of the Chaos guards.
The reason the Order and Chaos guards are allowed to fight is to test the
strenght of the two philosphies. Tight control and discipline vs compassion
and freedom of action.
The reason O/C fight in UO is jacking shit and because they like to fight.
Nothing wrong with that, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the Ultima
fiction.
Brandy
of O/C, murderers etc.
I am not arguing that O/C has ANYTHING to do with the original concept. But
as an outlet for consentual pvp, it seems to be doing quite well.
One of the largest and most successful chaos guilds on LS (until they all
recently moved to SP) all had murderers too. When they were playing chaos,
they weren't playing their murderers obviously. To that extent, O/C has
helped with the PK "problem" so many here complain about.
Brandy (WE, LS)
Richard Cortese <rico...@netmagic.net> wrote in message
news:s3iqmv...@corp.supernews.com...
Brandy
have fairly equal numbers.
Course I have been recently accused of gangbanging in a fight where there
was 2 of us and 3 of them AND they had a blue healer. For some reason our
tactic of splitting them up and killing each one 2 on 1 was seen as
gangbanging, when all it was, was superior tactics. So a lot of the
"gangbanging" that happens is totally in the eye of the beholder.
Even though blue healing at different times benefits both sides I will be
VERY happy when that is fixed.
Brandy (WE, LS)
Opium <w...@cares.com> wrote in message news:38392B63...@cares.com...
Opium
the chaos attacks me, the other 9 will also attack me. Thats
gangbanging. I have almost never seen nearly equal numbers,
and most don't make a difference between green and orange.
It's always one vs all others, and after he dies someone randomly
picked will be the next victim.
A fun battle is warring the Shadowclan Orcs. They strictly
follow the ROE and don't fight for loot.
Brandy
guildmates, other orders are blue.
Brandy (WE, LS)
Opium <w...@cares.com> wrote in message news:3839882B...@cares.com...
Yuri Gorlinski
Your depiction of Order/Chaos warfare is
hopelessly out of date. The Order/Chaos
system was revised several months ago so
that Order folk are now blue to other Order
folk and Chaos folk are now blue to other
Chaos folk. The only folks who are green are
the ones in your own guild, and if they're
gangbanging you then I suspect this is
indicative of an internal guild problem
rather than a flaw in the O/C system itself.
I've fought the Shadowclan orcs a few times
on SP and I found them to be highly
unimpressive when compared with many of
the Order/Chaos guilds I warred with on
Sonoma. You need to recognize that your idea
of a "fun battle" is not a universal constant,
not everyone is looking for the same type of
experience and these things all vary
depending upon which shard you're playing
on...
Shih-ka'i, OGD
Opium <w...@cares.com> wrote:
> If I'm chaos together with 10 other chaos and suddenly one of
> the chaos attacks me, the other 9 will also attack me. Thats
> gangbanging. I have almost never seen nearly equal numbers,
> and most don't make a difference between green and orange.
> It's always one vs all others, and after he dies someone randomly
> picked will be the next victim.
> A fun battle is warring the Shadowclan Orcs. They strictly
> follow the ROE and don't fight for loot.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Opium
> hopelessly out of date. The Order/Chaos
> system was revised several months ago so
> that Order folk are now blue to other Order
> folk and Chaos folk are now blue to other
> Chaos folk. The only folks who are green are
> the ones in your own guild, and if they're
> gangbanging you then I suspect this is
> indicative of an internal guild problem
> rather than a flaw in the O/C system itself.
Possible, I never tried chaos/order again and
it's a while ago now...
> I've fought the Shadowclan orcs a few times
> on SP and I found them to be highly
> unimpressive when compared with many of
> the Order/Chaos guilds I warred with on
> Sonoma. You need to recognize that your idea
> of a "fun battle" is not a universal constant,
> not everyone is looking for the same type of
> experience and these things all vary
> depending upon which shard you're playing
> on...
Hmm I don't play on SP, only on Catskills.
Quaestor
> The reason O/C fight in UO is jacking shit and because they like to fight.
> Nothing wrong with that, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the Ultima
> fiction.
Consider it a form of masterbation.
Corwin of Amber (WE/LS)
>You can still have all the mechanics and fighting that goes on with the
>Pimp/Ho wars, but at least it should reflect some of the fiction of the
>Ultima series. Since it bears no sembalance to the series and reflects the
>game in no manner whatsoever, it is properly derided.
OSI made a cover story for why Chaos and Order are at war with each
other. Heck, even the Chaos NPC guards deride me a bit when I talk to
them. So the frick what? Go deride the whole freaking game. The fact
that most people do not roleplay, do not understand the background
stories, is prevelant in all aspects of UO.
>Read the orignal post again. The whole thread is about and was started
>because the original poster noticed how the Order/Chaos guards are just a
>bunch of exploiting jerks trying to trick people into going gray. Didn't
>that even show up on your news server?
I read it and I didn't respond to that. There's nothing really to say.
UO is littered with jerks .. the fact that one of them had Order over
his head is not particularly interesting.
I'm reponding to all the people who are deriding O/C as some kind of
disease. It was created as a PVP outlet. Duh. To deride O/C is to
deride consentual PVP.
Corwin
Corwin of Amber (WE/LS)
>A fun battle is warring the Shadowclan Orcs. They strictly
>follow the ROE and don't fight for loot.
Roleplayed PVP with fair battles, and rules are notoriously hard to
sustain, as bickering always seems to break out.
O/C is about fighting. Victory and loot are the challenge. If eight
guys are going from town to town ganking every solo player they see
.. can you organize a counter strike to take them out? Should you
risk your good weapons? Can you beat greater numbers? Can you kill
their tamer and pet Dragon?
That's the fun part to me.
A group throws down the challenge, and you either respond to it -or-
you whine. Unfortunately, too many people just whine. :(
Corwin (LS/WE)
Zaphkiel
>I'm reponding to all the people who are deriding O/C as some kind of
>disease. It was created as a PVP outlet. Duh. To deride O/C is to
>deride consentual PVP.
Bullshit. That's like saying if I deride McDonalds, I am
deriding capitalism. It is quite possible to be totally in favor of
capitalism, and just not like the way McDonalds serves it's fries.
It is also possible to deride capitalism, and still like a Big Mac.
There is no connection.
--Zaphkiel
Richard Cortese
news:3839e3cd...@news.mnsinc.com...
> Richard,
>
> >You can still have all the mechanics and fighting that goes on with the
> >Pimp/Ho wars, but at least it should reflect some of the fiction of the
> >Ultima series. Since it bears no sembalance to the series and reflects
the
> >game in no manner whatsoever, it is properly derided.
>
> OSI made a cover story for why Chaos and Order are at war with each
> other. Heck, even the Chaos NPC guards deride me a bit when I talk to
> them. So the frick what? Go deride the whole freaking game. The fact
> that most people do not roleplay, do not understand the background
> stories, is prevelant in all aspects of UO.
an unrelated rant. That is why I am saying your comments are out of place
here.
The question was and is ~"What do the Order and Chaos guards have to do with
Ultima fiction?"
The answer was and still is, nothing.
Since we apparently agree on that point, start another thread with something
like "Let's list all the great things that have resulted from having the
Order/Chaos wars!" if you want to go that way. It just seems like the drift
here is not really appropriate under the circumstances that were related by
the original poster.
Corwin of Amber (WE/LS)
>Just that I get the impression you are trying to highjack a thread to make
>an unrelated rant. That is why I am saying your comments are out of place
>here.
WHAAAAA!?!?! Your accusing me of creating thread drift?
You remember this is a newsgroup, right? Thread drift is what we do?
But IMO, you guys responding to this thread could had just said that
"yes, you are liable to get screwed over by anyone in UO" and left it
at that. But some of you took the opportunity to slam O/C and everyone
in it. As if it was something about O/C that causes people to exploit,
or NPK or whatever. Twinks will be twinks. IMO, O/C is at least a
distraction which keeps them from annoying other players for long
periods of time.
Corwin
Richard Cortese
"Can Order Guards be trusted?"
If someone posted in a similar vein, "What do I do when a murderer attacks
me?" the conventional advice of run like hell or try to kill them first
would naturally follow.
Of course we expect for Yuri and Alex to try and chime in "Reds are people
too" or "Some of my best friends are red, you should try talking to him".
While both statements are true, it may mislead the person asking the
question.
Other then yourself and your guild, I really don't know that many people in
the C/O guilds that behave like anything other then a pack of jackals. For
the most part, all the old PKs and exploiters like FjP, MoB, Malignants, you
name it, are all in C/O in some form or another. I think LoD even has an
Order guild on Baja.
>
> Corwin
>
Yuri Gorlinski
>
>Fine, but remember the original poster was asking things along the line of
>"Can Order Guards be trusted?"
The only positive thing I can really say here is that Order guards
are often more trustworthy than their Chaos rivals, although this
certainly isn't always the case.
>If someone posted in a similar vein, "What do I do when a murderer attacks
>me?" the conventional advice of run like hell or try to kill them first
>would naturally follow.
>
>Of course we expect for Yuri and Alex to try and chime in "Reds are people
>too" or "Some of my best friends are red, you should try talking to him".
>While both statements are true, it may mislead the person asking the
>question.
Actually, since the murderer in your scenario has already attacked
said individual, I probably wouldn't suggest conversation at that stage
of the game.
>Other then yourself and your guild, I really don't know that many people in
>the C/O guilds that behave like anything other then a pack of jackals.
I tend to judge O/C folk on the basis of how they participate in
O/C activities. Like virtually every aspect of the game, the majority
of the people in it are scum... The O/C twinks rely on blue healers
and blockers, they NPK, they disrupt neutral events, and they basically
do whatever else they can to be assholes. They're really not all that
different from the assholes who aren't O/C, except they maybe spend a
little more time fighting.
The guilds I've run with for O/C, DTM and OGD on Sonoma, and WE on LS,
none of them have behaved like that. Most of our rival guilds do, but
there have also been a few who fought with some measure of honor.
Blue healers are really the biggest asshole exploit in the whole O/C
game, the scene is going to radically change if the dev team ever gets
around to implementing those flagging changes they were talking about...
It should lead to a radical improvement in the quality of O/C combat
across the board. The changes to Recall which are currently in the
concept stage should also prove interesting if they ever see the light
of day...
Shih-ka'i, OGD
Corwin of Amber (WE/LS)
Nope it's not like that at all. Got any other false analogies you wish
to waste our time with?
Here's a better analogy for you: "It's like deriding jails because you
do not like the people in them."
Corwin
Otara
I think its quite possible to be in favour of organised or consensual
PvP (as I am) and think that O/C didnt quite work out very well as a
version of it. Is this really such a controversial statement?
Otara
Jeff Gentry
: I think its quite possible to be in favour of organised or consensual
: PvP (as I am) and think that O/C didnt quite work out very well as a
: version of it. Is this really such a controversial statement?
I would think that as phrased, it is a universally held viewpoint :P
While I know ppl who find O/C "fun", I don't know anyone who thinks
it "worked out very well"
--
Jeff Gentry jes...@rpi.edu gen...@rpi.edu
"You're one of those condescending UNIX users! ...."
"Here's a nickel kid ... get yourself a real computer."
Corwin of Amber (WE/LS)
wrote:
>Well - actually I'm with Zaph here,
>
>I think its quite possible to be in favour of organised or consensual
>PvP (as I am) and think that O/C didnt quite work out very well as a
>version of it. Is this really such a controversial statement?
>
>Otara
Everything about UO could be better. That's not really a starter. The
root of the matter is how does the existance of O/C in anyway degrade
you're gaming? Does it allow people to kill you or harass you, who
otherwise could not? NO! Does it reduce the number of people looking
to block you, NPK you, loot you, murder you? YES!
*sheesh*
Basically, let us who actually enjoy Order/Chaos CONSENTUAL PVP, worry
about how to improve it and make it better ... huh? When you actually
get some form of RP and story line in to everything else in UO, come
bother us then.
Corwin
Corwin of Amber (WE/LS)
>Welll - there is also the issue of whether its in a form good enough
>that you'd consider taking part in it yourself?
Well, I do. You don't. I'm thinking you would probably want something
completely different. Perhaps a dueling system or some-such. "I wish
to duel you and I put up 1000 gold" <click player> "I accept your
duel" ... players are transported off to an arena and duke it out 1 on
1, get rezzed by a healer nearby, and no looting.
Does that sound like what you want? I would still much prefer
Order/Chaos ... but I sure wouldn't bug anyone who preferred the
dueling system.
>If its not, thats a part of gaming experience you get to miss out on.
But that's always the case for any game system.
Order/Chaos/Guildwar is actually a pretty good system right now. Blue
healing is the #1 problem, followed by taming, and arguably recall ...
not the lack of roleplay, ganking, town fighting, trash talk, rez
killing, etc ... that NG'ers usually whine about.
>And I really think you should consider giving up coffee.
Hrmm, nah.
Corwin
Jeff Gentry
: Everything about UO could be better. That's not really a starter. The
: root of the matter is how does the existance of O/C in anyway degrade
: you're gaming? Does it allow people to kill you or harass you, who
: otherwise could not? NO! Does it reduce the number of people looking
Actually yes - tho its not so bad now. It used to be, just hanging
around the bank was a real pain in the rump because of the 2468729467
dufas' doing the O/C thing on each other.
Otara
Amber (WE/LS)) wrote:
>Everything about UO could be better. That's not really a starter. The
>root of the matter is how does the existance of O/C in anyway degrade
>you're gaming? Does it allow people to kill you or harass you, who
>otherwise could not? NO! Does it reduce the number of people looking
>to block you, NPK you, loot you, murder you? YES!
>
>*sheesh*
>
>Basically, let us who actually enjoy Order/Chaos CONSENTUAL PVP, worry
>about how to improve it and make it better ... huh? When you actually
>get some form of RP and story line in to everything else in UO, come
>bother us then.
Welll - there is also the issue of whether its in a form good enough
that you'd consider taking part in it yourself?
If its not, thats a part of gaming experience you get to miss out on.
And I really think you should consider giving up coffee.
Otara
Otara
Amber (WE/LS)) wrote:
>>Welll - there is also the issue of whether its in a form good enough
>>that you'd consider taking part in it yourself?
>
>completely different. Perhaps a dueling system or some-such. "I wish
>to duel you and I put up 1000 gold" <click player> "I accept your
>duel" ... players are transported off to an arena and duke it out 1 on
>1, get rezzed by a healer nearby, and no looting.
Different yes - never liked the duel thing that much myself. Havent
really thought of what I'd want to be honest, just know that O/C
doesnt fit with what I like. Guild war gets close apart for the blue
healer issue.
>Does that sound like what you want? I would still much prefer
>Order/Chaos ... but I sure wouldn't bug anyone who preferred the
>dueling system.
Nope. I like mass wars - just like it if everyones in it. And I'd
rather it couldnt happen in town where you get to see people running
around all the time yelling 'you suk' etc.
>>If its not, thats a part of gaming experience you get to miss out on.
>
>But that's always the case for any game system.
Sure - but it means you can say it doesnt work for you even tho you do
like the idea of consensual PvP. And that is reducing some of the
options you have within the game.
>Order/Chaos/Guildwar is actually a pretty good system right now. Blue
>healing is the #1 problem, followed by taming, and arguably recall ...
>not the lack of roleplay, ganking, town fighting, trash talk, rez
>killing, etc ... that NG'ers usually whine about.
Yeah - well, depends on what you think the purpose of it is. All
opinon based after all.
>>And I really think you should consider giving up coffee.
>
>Hrmm, nah.
Now you're going to scare me and tell me you dont drink it?
Otara
Richard Cortese
> Otara,
>
> >Welll - there is also the issue of whether its in a form good enough
> >that you'd consider taking part in it yourself?
>
> Well, I do. You don't. I'm thinking you would probably want something
> completely different. Perhaps a dueling system or some-such. "I wish
> to duel you and I put up 1000 gold" <click player> "I accept your
> duel" ... players are transported off to an arena and duke it out 1 on
> 1, get rezzed by a healer nearby, and no looting.
>
> Order/Chaos ... but I sure wouldn't bug anyone who preferred the
> dueling system.
>
>
> But that's always the case for any game system.
>
> healing is the #1 problem, followed by taming, and arguably recall ...
> not the lack of roleplay, ganking, town fighting, trash talk, rez
> killing, etc ... that NG'ers usually whine about.
part in it. Doesn't bother me at all that there are blue healers or taming
or recall.
But then personally I would like to see the ganking going on in dungeons vs
banks. I am a little bit sorry that O/C is taking away a lot of what made it
dangerous to go to a dungeon in favor of making a lag fest at banks. I
wouldn't even mind if they had things like no murder counts in dungeons, but
I know I am in the minority.
Actually, it was better fiction IMO when it first came out for, oh say 20
minutes before people started exploiting it?
Too many things have changed, too many things changed at the same time, but
I like the system where you needed fame and noto to get a shield. First day
they dropped the requirement to 'in a guild', every bank thief and newbie
killer in the game joined up.
It was a more interesting dynamic having Order vs Chaos until there was a
greater threat like Pks at Covetous when minor differences would be dropped
and all the Virtue Guards would band together against a common enemy. At
least before the 20 minutes was up and everyone started ganking each other
at banks.
I don't think anyone objects the O/C thing as it functions, just the way it
does not fit Ultima fiction. If they called it anything other then O/C, I
don't think anyone would take exception to it.
Winding the thread back around, remember this started with a post from a
newbie complaining about Order Guards trying to decieve people<successfully
I might add>. If they would have been called Pimp Guards or Red Guards or
Cat Guards or Dog Guards, I don't even think the original post would have
been made.
Being a bit serious, it really should be something like Mondain Guards vs
Iolo Guards. It wouldn't make any difference to the participants of O/C, but
it would be an improvement for followers of the Ultima fiction.
Corwin of Amber (WE/LS)
>Corwin of Amber (WE/LS) (cor...@wind.atlantic.com) wrote:
>: Everything about UO could be better. That's not really a starter. The
>: root of the matter is how does the existance of O/C in anyway degrade
>: you're gaming? Does it allow people to kill you or harass you, who
>: otherwise could not? NO! Does it reduce the number of people looking
>
>Actually yes - tho its not so bad now. It used to be, just hanging
>around the bank was a real pain in the rump because of the 2468729467
>dufas' doing the O/C thing on each other.
A real pain how? Did their presence prevent you from opening your
bank? Personally, I found people summoning elementals, stealing, or
spamming BUY MY CRAP at the bank a lot more annoying.
Corwin
Corwin of Amber (WE/LS)
>Being a bit serious, it really should be something like Mondain Guards vs
>Iolo Guards. It wouldn't make any difference to the participants of O/C, but
>it would be an improvement for followers of the Ultima fiction.
Need I point out that it's the players which define what the "Ultima
Fiction" means in UO?
Why can't LB's or Blackthorn's guard become corrupt?
Heck in Ultima, Blackthorn himself was corrupted by the Shadowlords.
*shrugs*
If you recall the old system fell apart when the Dreads discovered
they could PK without statloss by killing O/C guard members and of
course EV'ing. Before that, the shield was a nice bonus and
recognition for killing a lot of mongbats ... and <some> of us even
felt a duty to help others when we carried the shield.
Corwin
Dundee
(WE/LS)) wrote:
> A real pain how? Did their presence prevent you from opening your
> bank? Personally, I found people summoning elementals, stealing, or
> spamming BUY MY CRAP at the bank a lot more annoying.
I thought they were all about the same degree of annoying.
Well, not as bad as the bankthieves.
Jeff Gentry
: A real pain how? Did their presence prevent you from opening your
: bank? Personally, I found people summoning elementals, stealing, or
: spamming BUY MY CRAP at the bank a lot more annoying.
go back to April. RCJ as always, banked in Ocllo - as did one
of the lrager (at the time) order guilds. The town was a warzone.
We'd be trying to have a conversation and 30 idiots would run through
shooting arrows and shouting "jack his shit!"
we didn't have many people summoning, stealing or spamming before that.
We *did* get a lot of people pestering us for rez's, heals, etc.
Tho, on the upside i got a lot of free arrows.
Richard Cortese
> Richard,
>
> >Being a bit serious, it really should be something like Mondain Guards vs
> >Iolo Guards. It wouldn't make any difference to the participants of O/C,
but
> >it would be an improvement for followers of the Ultima fiction.
>
> Need I point out that it's the players which define what the "Ultima
> Fiction" means in UO?
>
> Why can't LB's or Blackthorn's guard become corrupt?
>
> Heck in Ultima, Blackthorn himself was corrupted by the Shadowlords.
>
> *shrugs*
>
> If you recall the old system fell apart when the Dreads discovered
> they could PK without statloss by killing O/C guard members and of
dungeons lately with my lockpickers, they are really feeble 50ish strenght,
and no one is attacking. Everyone is ganking everyone else at banks.
I am being silly in that I think banks should be safe and dungeons
dangerous. I'm moving a character to Buc's Den tonight to take up permanent
residence, maybe that will change my gaming experience.
> course EV'ing. Before that, the shield was a nice bonus and
> recognition for killing a lot of mongbats ... and <some> of us even
And not doing anything particularily stupid or offensive like snooping. I
think I died at least twice when I forgot to throw the thing down before
killing some kewlio.
> felt a duty to help others when we carried the shield.
Me too. I even carried a shield after the ganking started for a while, but I
soon grew tired of getting slammed 3-4 on 1 at banks by chaos while I was
doing stuff like escorting or giving newbie advice.
>
> Corwin
Corwin of Amber (WE/LS)
>I am just in a mood, ignore me. I've been spending a fair amount of time in
>dungeons lately with my lockpickers, they are really feeble 50ish strenght,
>and no one is attacking. Everyone is ganking everyone else at banks.
There's some purity and balance to O/C right now. i.e. You can't hide
at the border of some safe zone and tell someone how much they suck.
Pure put up or shuttup, and that's a good feature for those of us who
are really tired of the smack talkers who refuse to fight.
I mentioned balance, because I like that warriors have an advantage in
town; and that mages have an advantage out of town. (note: Yes I think
1 on 1 that warriors are better than mages - but group fighting is
very different).
It's a lot of fun to fight in towns too. For instance nearly everone
in Skara on LS has been drawn in to a battle between WE and the
Knights of Mist. We <are> fighting for Skara.
Corwin
Corwin of Amber (WE/LS)
>go back to April. RCJ as always, banked in Ocllo - as did one
>of the lrager (at the time) order guilds. The town was a warzone.
>We'd be trying to have a conversation and 30 idiots would run through
>shooting arrows and shouting "jack his shit!"
Funny, most of the time when WE is going thru towns, all we hear are
the blues trash talking "Order Sucks!" ..."You guys are all _____!!!",
etc ...
The O/C guys are too busy beating the snot out of each other to trash
talk. In fact, if a Chaos gets foul mouthed with me ... that's one of
the reasons I'll rez kill 'em ... so at least in my experience it's
not a big problem.
Corwin
Kiril Threndor
>in Skara on LS has been drawn in to a battle between WE and the
>Knights of Mist. We <are> fighting for Skara.
>
That is the Guild I am in on LS. I haven't played there for a month
though since I started on Europa. Don't know if I want to come back now!
--
________________________________________________
Kiril Threndor
A swordsman, just not a very good one!
Be true, Unbeliever
Answer the call.
Corwin of Amber (WE/LS)
<ult...@baywatch.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>It's a lot of fun to fight in towns too. For instance nearly everone
>>in Skara on LS has been drawn in to a battle between WE and the
>>Knights of Mist. We <are> fighting for Skara.
>>
>Really?
>
>That is the Guild I am in on LS. I haven't played there for a month
>though since I started on Europa. Don't know if I want to come back now!
>
>Kiril Threndor
Well, they setup a seperate stone for the war, so you wouldn't be
effected.
They have a bunch of twinks in the guild, not the least of which is
their GM - Saint Rob.
Dunno why you hooked up with them, and at least IMO they aren't worth
going back to.
Corwin
Jeff Gentry
: their GM - Saint Rob.
Ugh. That guy is a total spank.
Dundee
> Corwin of Amber (WE/LS) (cor...@wind.atlantic.com) wrote:
> : They have a bunch of twinks in the guild, not the least of which is
> : their GM - Saint Rob.
>
> Ugh. That guy is a total spank.
I agree.
Kiril Threndor
<cor...@wind.atlantic.com> writes
>
>They have a bunch of twinks in the guild, not the least of which is
>their GM - Saint Rob.
>
>going back to.
>
ropes a little and I just joined up.
I always found Rob OK, he helped me a lot when I first started, kitted
me out with stuff and plenty of advice.
I left LS about the time I started posting on here. all by accident
really. Pre UO I played Battlezone and some guys I used to play with had
a guild on Europa, I naturally followed when I found out they were
playing UO.
I went back after reading your post at the weekend and things have
changed a lot in the month I have been away. A lot of the guys I liked
are no longer in the guild for various reasons.
I will keep my char on LS in case Europa is down at anytime and I need
my fix but I doubt I will take part in the guild war. I read the posts
on the K^M board and I don't like the tone of the things on there. There
seems to be a lot of bad feeling floating about between WE and K^M. Best
off out of it I think.
If you do see me on there, rest assured, I will never blue heal the war
guild of K^M.
Corwin of Amber (WE/LS)
>I always found Rob OK, he helped me a lot when I first started, kitted
>me out with stuff and plenty of advice.
One of those things I suppose ... when pushed the twinkiness comes
out. A lot of the current problems is still due to the splitup of
Dundee's old guild TNO which resulted in the more mature NO-JERKS
group heading off with Buffy, and the "it's only a game bunch" running
off with Rob. Buffy and her group SoV felt horribly harassed by Rob's
group and the continual annoyance from the "leave us alone so we can
play the game K^M" apparently lead to their breakup.
K^M somehow got it in their mind that they had won, and now ruled
Skara Brae .... Myself and others in my group have always been friends
with the old core TNO'ers like Buffy, and with K^M claiming some kind
of ownership of Skara it seemed time to contest this.
The original breakup of TNO started when William KOS and SmokeyBlaze
started running PK characters Septimus and AmlaPK. They were caught
harassing a RL female belonging to YLA calling her b*tch and other
sundries. When YLA discovered who ran these PKs, TNO split over the
meaning about what a "no jerk" guild means. Their response to the
incident was even more sickening. Many, many examples of
gross-twinkiness since then.
Corwin
Kiril Threndor
introduced to the wonderful world of PK's. I took my newbie axe and
walked out of Trinsic to chop trees and was killed by toobad. Left me
feeling a little angry and if not for some kind soul at the bank,
Milamber, I would have ended my UO experience there and then, Toobad
took my 100 gold.
After joining K^M, I later found out that Toobad was Austin Powers, in
the K^M guild. This bothered me. Not so much that he runs a PK but by
his attitude that I was owned. I attacked him for this attitude but he
managed to get away, I guess Kiril owned Austin, he left the guild the
next day.
It left a bad taste though, I know before hand that some of the K^M guys
had been PK's but had chosen to overlook it when I suppose, it was too
my advantage.
I stopped playing there about the time that the Buffy/Rob thing came to
a head, I didn't really know what it was about. For me though, there was
a bit too much ganking and noto'ing going on around the guildhouse, I
hate that stuff. Also, the person who was supposed to be training me
also turned out to be a PK.
I only discovered this newsgroup after I had been playing a while and
about the time I left LS. I wish I had found it sooner then I would
still probably be playing there a little and would have liked to play
with some of you guys and SBR.
Kiril.
Brandy
Kiril Threndor <ult...@baywatch.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XLPFVBAG...@baywatch.demon.co.uk...
> In article <38555313...@news.mnsinc.com>, Corwin of Amber (WE/LS)
> <cor...@wind.atlantic.com> writes
> >
> >They have a bunch of twinks in the guild, not the least of which is
> >their GM - Saint Rob.
> >
> >Dunno why you hooked up with them, and at least IMO they aren't worth
> >going back to.
> >
> When I first started out, I met Rob out in the woods, he showed me the
> ropes a little and I just joined up.
>
> me out with stuff and plenty of advice.
>
> really. Pre UO I played Battlezone and some guys I used to play with had
> a guild on Europa, I naturally followed when I found out they were
> playing UO.
>
> I went back after reading your post at the weekend and things have
> changed a lot in the month I have been away. A lot of the guys I liked
> are no longer in the guild for various reasons.
>
> I will keep my char on LS in case Europa is down at anytime and I need
> my fix but I doubt I will take part in the guild war. I read the posts
> on the K^M board and I don't like the tone of the things on there. There
> seems to be a lot of bad feeling floating about between WE and K^M. Best
> off out of it I think.
>
> If you do see me on there, rest assured, I will never blue heal the war
> guild of K^M.
> ________________________________________________
>
> Kiril Threndor
> A swordsman, just not a very good one!
>
> Be true, Unbeliever
> Answer the call.
I have been subject to some of the most foul, sexually degrading comments
that I have ever heard from members of K^M, both on the boards and in game.
One member in particular likes to come up to me in game and tell me he wants
to "fuk me up the ass". I of course tell him that is offensive and ask him
to stop, which he does until the next time I run into him. He brags about
this loophole in the system, where he can basically say anything he
likes...once a day.
One of K^M posted to their board that he couldn't wait for me to die in our
war so he could "rape my corpse". He said some other stuff too, which I
will not repeat here because it is much much worse.
Their GM Saint Rob and his RL wife Sym either ignore this behavior or excuse
it by saying that K^M has many young members. Others in the guild laugh at
the comments made. I, and others that complain about the language used and
comments made, are accused of whining.
Personally I am surprised that you want anything at all to do with this
bunch of foul mouthed misogynistic jerks.
Brandy (WE, LS)
Dundee
> Their GM Saint Rob and his RL wife Sym either ignore this behavior or excuse
> it by saying that K^M has many young members.
The guy has some serious mental problems or something. 'Certainly goes
beyond simply ignoring or excusing poor behavior. He developed an irrational
dislike for me when I wasn't even playing - for no other reason than because
I "butted in" to point out that they were acting like a bunch of jerks when,
gosh, they were.
But then, even Buffy sort of flamed me for butting in, that time. "You're
always welcome to post here, but don't ever say anything that might be
construed as criticism, even if it's true" seemed to be the policy. Her
criticism of me at the time included "you never admit when you're wrong",
which didn't have anything to do with anything since, as many of them
eventually realized, I wasn't wrong.
Fun stuff, though. Guild politics, town politics, a man so desperate to be
loved that he's jealous of everyone else on the shard that he might think is
more popular than he is. Like there would be an animosity between Rob and
Corwin *anyway*, no matter *what*, just because more people know who Corwin
is. You too, in fact.
A screen shot of dead St. Rob would be a really nice holiday gift for my
website, if anyone's feeling in a particularly giving mood. I mean, I would
really really like that.
Really.
Brandy
Dundee <Dun...@SPAMSPAMSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:028F7C6ECEA5A578.04E76470...@lp.airnews.net...
> A screen shot of dead St. Rob would be a really nice holiday gift for my
> website, if anyone's feeling in a particularly giving mood. I mean, I
would
> really really like that.
>
> Really.
>
> --
> http://dundee.uong.com/
Believe me, if I ever catch the guy out of town, I have been saving a count
just for him.
WE came fairly close to getting his thunter character a couple weeks ago but
he managed to get away. The other K^M / EFA (Wulfgar's guild) with him
weren't as lucky.
Brandy (WE, LS)
Kiril Threndor
>Personally I am surprised that you want anything at all to do with this
>bunch of foul mouthed misogynistic jerks.
>
>Brandy (WE, LS)
I don't play there anymore Brandy.
Brandy
Sorry I misread and thought you still came over now and then.
Brandy (WE, LS)
Silverleaf
awhile. YR turned them Red and harassed them so bad that they were afraid to
come out of their house. They later traded houses with St. Rob so they would
be safe in their PK'ing efforts. To get even they latter cleaned out a free
chest YR kept for newbies and left the stuff to decay.
Silverleaf (YR/LS)
"Corwin of Amber (WE/LS)" <cor...@wind.atlantic.com> wrote in message
news:3856b517...@news.mnsinc.com...
> Kiril,
>
> >I always found Rob OK, he helped me a lot when I first started, kitted
> >me out with stuff and plenty of advice.
>
Corwin of Amber (WE/LS)
>But then, even Buffy sort of flamed me for butting in, that time. "You're
>always welcome to post here, but don't ever say anything that might be
>construed as criticism, even if it's true" seemed to be the policy.
Guild psychology is funny stuff. The main lesson I've learned thru
all the various battles I've fought is NOONE wants to deal with a
problem unless the problem is effecting them.
Random Ranger: But Corwin ... Quaestor has always seemed like such a
nice guy to me!
Corwin: Bleh, just try telling him the sky is blue.
RR: Well, ok.
... some time later ...
RR: Hey Q, the sky is blue!
Q: It's more like azure. *nudge* *nudge*
RR: No-no don't be silly it's quite blue.
Q: HOW DARE YOU INSULT ME BY CALLING ME SILLY!
Q: I AM A MENSA!
Q: You are the ingnorant spawn of the mating of a slime and a mongbat!
Q: If I say the sky is AZURE you can know for a fact it is AZURE. When
and if you are ready to talk to me reasonably about the condition of
the sky, let me know. Until then ... *PLONK*
Something like that anyway ...
Corwin
John Schirpik
> >I always found Rob OK, he helped me a lot when I first started, kitted
> >me out with stuff and plenty of advice.
>
> One of those things I suppose ... when pushed the twinkiness comes
> out. A lot of the current problems is still due to the splitup of
> Dundee's old guild TNO which resulted in the more mature NO-JERKS
> group heading off with Buffy, and the "it's only a game bunch" running
> off with Rob.
i dont think so to me it seem that st.Rob needs someone to hate frist it
was Dundee Till Dundee disbanded Tno then it was Buffy and Biff till SoV
folded now its you and Brandy.
Dont Know why but just the feeling i get from his post.
Henery Wigglesworth.ls
John Schirpik
"Brandy" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:838dld$btn$1...@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> I have been subject to some of the most foul, sexually degrading comments
> that I have ever heard from members of K^M, both on the boards and in
game.
> One member in particular likes to come up to me in game and tell me he
wants
> to "fuk me up the ass". I of course tell him that is offensive and ask
him
> to stop, which he does until the next time I run into him. He brags about
> this loophole in the system, where he can basically say anything he
> likes...once a day.
Henery Wigglesworth Ls.