A Deceit Story
Damocles
Last night was a bad night for me. Disgusted by the scumminess of most
of my fellow Chaos guards, I decided to go Order. This was in spite of
my natural predilection for Chaos (I actually know something of what
it's supposed to mean). I changed my guild, recalled back to my usual
haunt - and was dead within one minute at the hands of a 100% resist
KOC guy, who proceeded to kill my horse along with his groveling
friend. He told his buddies how he "owned" me.
Ah well. At least I didn't die due to packet loss. I re-equipped and
decided I'd had enough of town fighting with idiots for now. I went
off to Deceit. My first stop was the lich lord room. Lo and behold, a
new way has been found to kill them that's doesn't even have the
limited amount of risk the old ones did. Just kill and harvest.
I had no stomach for that, so I went up to level 3 Deceit, where the
liches and poison elementals live. I hear the call of a poison
elemental and go and investigate. I find this guy, Gilbert I believe
was his name, leading a lich, PE, and a shade to an area which he'd
blocked off with boxes. Once there, he teleported across and started
fire fielding.
I found this to be a disgusting abuse, so I decided to take matters
into my own hands and gather up his boxes. This freed the elemental
and lich, who proceeded to chase Gilbert for a while.
A few minutes later, Gilbert found me and started ranting at me about
how tough he was and how I'd better give him his boxes back. When I
said no, he attacked. We fought for a while, but he was no match for
me and was obviously going to die in a minute or two. Unfortunately, a
lich entered the area and targeted me, firing off a couple of ebolts,
aided by Gilbert who paralyzed me so the lich could get off its shots.
I escaped, wandered around for a while and then went up to the
skeletal knight room. I'm fighting one of them when suddenly Gilbert
comes out of hiding and explodes me. He had to have been sitting by
the portal with an explosion spell ready, waiting for his chance.
Unfortunately for him my horse carried me out of spell range before he
could follow it up, and he recalled out.
So what do you people think? Should I have left Gilbert alone to use
his boxes to harvest monster loot?
Begbie Tirith
faulty AI, and whether or not you role-played the scenario is irrelevant. I
would've done the same, although I wouldn't have stood a chance against him
:-)
-AMS
Damocles wrote in message
<361f86f3....@news.slnt1.on.wave.home.com>...
Canticle
> his boxes to harvest monster loot?
Nope, you did the right thing...until they improve the Monster AI to the
point where they will pick up obstacles on their own, people like that
need to be shown what combat is about. Risk.
Most people complain that the monsters are simple and easy which is why
they PK. Oddly enough, I never see them standing toe to toe with a
Poison Elemental, they would rather deal with it from complete and total
safety.
Jeff-boy
Fire of Marauder
and slaughter you with little trouble, With dispelling and ability to pick
up boxs there will be no way to fight these guys.
I think they shold make less of a chance to have your Blades dispelled and
even slimmer for your EVs.
Fire of Marauder.
Canticle <cant...@escape.ca> wrote in message
361FB300...@escape.ca...
Canticle
> One question...How are you sdupposed to kill poisons that follow you aound
> and slaughter you with little trouble, With dispelling and ability to pick
> up boxs there will be no way to fight these guys.
Fight in a group.
The House, on rare occaisons, used to go to Destard to fight Drakes and
Dragons. I don't mean fight by dropping a Blade Spirit or Energy Vortex
either. I mean knock down, drag out FIGHT.
We had three dedicated healers, and a whole host of potions amongst us.
We usually lost one or two men, but we always came out intact, and we
always had a lot more fun than the people who sat there and dropped an
EV on a boxed in Drake or Dragon.
People seem to assume that if its not easy, its not worth it :(
Jeff-boy
Palzgraf of Lake Superior Shard
handled it differently. Before I took the boxes I would have at least
told him you were about to do that. When you take the boxes without
warning you are essentially pking in my opinion. Additionally, if
Gilbert is the person I believe he may be he is a very honorable sort
despite the manner in which he was gaining fame and fortune.
Palzgraf of Lake Superior Shard.
On Sat, 10 Oct 1998 16:14:28 GMT, phae...@yahoo.com (Damocles)
wrote:
Damocles
He had more than enough time to get away. He also talked like a kewl
dood, telling me how he could beat poison elementals so he'd have no
trouble with me. He lost in a fair fight and tried to use cheap means
to kill me, but failed at that as well.
Palzgraf of Lake Superior Shard
that manner. Sounds like he had it coming then. hehe
Palzgraf of Lake Superior Shard
On Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:46:23 GMT, phae...@yahoo.com (Damocles)
wrote:
Dundee
wrote:
>So what do you people think? Should I have left Gilbert alone to use
>his boxes to harvest monster loot?
I would have. If that's his idea of fun... *shrug*...
There are so many opportunities to get into PvP conflict. I rarely
look for them.
But that's just me.
(and sometimes it really *literally* seems to be *just* me).
--
Dundee of Lake Superior - Skep...@SPAMISantisocial.com
Townstone proposal, Housing proposal and Other Stuff:
http://dundee.uong.com
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
boxes, leave him alone.
If you want to fight poison elementals hand to hand ... then do so ...
just don't expect to make much money.
If he was in the middle of fighting the lich and elemental when you
removed his flour bags, then that makes you the pk in this incident.
Damocles
Come on, are you telling me you think it's okay to exploit a defect in
AI to essentially reduce high level monsters to money and item crops?
There was no risk in what he was doing. Poison Elementals are supposed
to be bad ass, they are supposed to be extremely hard to kill. Boxing
them makes them easier than a couple of mongbats.
I didn't take his stupid boxes to kill him, I took them so he couldn't
keep cheating. He chose to come and attack me afterwards.
I'm sick to death of all the damned exploiters. I'm not going to mourn
if a few of their tricks result in their getting killed.
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
Anyone firefielding, bladeing or ev'ing in Deceit is taking an
*extreme* risk, albeit not from the monsters.
And yes if the players are smarter than the monsters ... power to
them.
If OSI thinks this should not be done, then they should change the
code. And if the day comes when they do change the code, they better
up the loot substantially or noone will bother to kill high level
monsters. Most players kill monsters to make money. If it becomes
unprofitable, why bother? 5 mages can drop a daemon with ebolts in 10
seconds. Is that more fun? Makes for about 20gp profit for each mage.
woohoo
Also I'd like to point out that sometimes the best laid plans fall
apart when a couple of high level monsters spawn right on your head.
I also oppose bug exploiters ... but I think it is OSI's job to
decide what is an exploit. It's their game after all.
Corwin (I don't flour bag - I can trap em just fine without ;P)
Scott Shaffer
>
>Come on, are you telling me you think it's okay to exploit a defect in
>AI to essentially reduce high level monsters to money and item crops?
>There was no risk in what he was doing. Poison Elementals are supposed
>to be bad ass, they are supposed to be extremely hard to kill. Boxing
>them makes them easier than a couple of mongbats.
>
PKers and random things prowling around Deceit.
>I didn't take his stupid boxes to kill him, I took them so he couldn't
>keep cheating. He chose to come and attack me afterwards.
>
What did you expect? A thank you?
>I'm sick to death of all the damned exploiters. I'm not going to mourn
>if a few of their tricks result in their getting killed.
>
Wait a minute - are you telling me that using your head to come up with a
creative solution to a problem (in this case killing the PE) shouldn't be
acceptable? Only going toe-to-toe with the PE is OK? What if he is a
character that doesn't have the ability to do this? Should he just stay away?
I guess your complaint is that Gilbert's solution is well known, was thought
up by somebody else, and he was just copying them. Well, you don't know that
for sure do you? It could be this guy figured it out for himself and was now
reaping the rewards of creative thinking.
As for the reality of it, I want to know who says a PE has the ability to deal
with crates? Perhaps he doesn't. Perhaps the inability to deal with crates
is the one limitation of the beast. I seem to recall reading many a fantasy
book where going toe-to-toe was *not* the way to get it done. Exploiting a
creatures weaknesses is the way to kill it. When you fight creatures with
0% resist, do you not cast spells at it? No, you exploit the weakness and
cast away.
Why didn't you pickpocket him as well? Why didn't you just PK him? I'm sure
that isn't your style, but it's exactly the same.
Seems to me that you were bored and looking to mess with him. Well, you did
and it was fun for you (and probably for him as well, if he would admit it.)
But don't come here and try to convince anybody that it was a noble act or
something. You just messed with somebody and enjoyed it.
Tek
---
Note: Remove nospam from my address if you want to email me!
---
Damocles
Shaffer) wrote:
>
>>I'm sick to death of all the damned exploiters. I'm not going to mourn
>>if a few of their tricks result in their getting killed.
>>
>Wait a minute - are you telling me that using your head to come up with a
>creative solution to a problem (in this case killing the PE) shouldn't be
>acceptable? Only going toe-to-toe with the PE is OK? What if he is a
>character that doesn't have the ability to do this? Should he just stay away?
Um, yes, that's exactly what he should do. The lower levels of a
dungeon like Deceit are no place to go if you are not a powerful
character. That is the universal pattern of all roleplaying
games...your skills progress to a point where you can penetrate into
the lower levels of a given area.
Deceit has areas where new characters can fight skeletons and zombies,
then skeletal knights and mages, then liches, etc. Going right down to
the PE area, or even the lich lord area, is ridiculous.
>
>I guess your complaint is that Gilbert's solution is well known, was thought
>up by somebody else, and he was just copying them. Well, you don't know that
>for sure do you? It could be this guy figured it out for himself and was now
>reaping the rewards of creative thinking.
My complaint is that it's a cheat. It doesn't matter to me if he's the
only one or if 90% of other players are doing it. It is a cheat, end
of story.
>
>As for the reality of it, I want to know who says a PE has the ability to deal
>with crates? Perhaps he doesn't. Perhaps the inability to deal with crates
>is the one limitation of the beast. I seem to recall reading many a fantasy
>book where going toe-to-toe was *not* the way to get it done. Exploiting a
>creatures weaknesses is the way to kill it. When you fight creatures with
>0% resist, do you not cast spells at it? No, you exploit the weakness and
>cast away.
God, the rationalizations people employ to justify their exploits.
It's not even worth answering this one.
>
>Why didn't you pickpocket him as well? Why didn't you just PK him? I'm sure
>that isn't your style, but it's exactly the same.
No, it is NOT the same. He was using a clear exploit to abuse the
system and collect loot from monsters with no real risk (and yes, I
know that Deceit is full of npks, but this was very late at night and
the dungeon was mostly deserted).
If I'd wanted to kill the bastard, I would have walked into his fire
field and attacked him while the monsters were still targeting him.
His chances of survival would have been nil.
>
>Seems to me that you were bored and looking to mess with him. Well, you did
>and it was fun for you (and probably for him as well, if he would admit it.)
>But don't come here and try to convince anybody that it was a noble act or
>something. You just messed with somebody and enjoyed it.
>
>Tek
And you sound like someone who sees no particular problem with duping
and uses UOE "because everyone else is and I gotta stay ahead".
A cheat is a cheat is a cheat. Period.
Damocles
Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
>Damocles,
>
>Anyone firefielding, bladeing or ev'ing in Deceit is taking an
>*extreme* risk, albeit not from the monsters.
But unlike the risk from monsters like poison elementals, which are
part of the dungeon and are SUPPOSED to be risks, he created his own
problem. Death by npk when trying to harvest monsters by trapping and
fire fielding them is an exploiter's just reward.
>
>And yes if the players are smarter than the monsters ... power to
>them.
Players are "smart" enough to dupe and loot houses too. I don't think
it should be more power to them.
>
>If OSI thinks this should not be done, then they should change the
>code. And if the day comes when they do change the code, they better
>up the loot substantially or noone will bother to kill high level
>monsters. Most players kill monsters to make money. If it becomes
>unprofitable, why bother? 5 mages can drop a daemon with ebolts in 10
>seconds. Is that more fun? Makes for about 20gp profit for each mage.
>woohoo
If pursuit of money is the only reason for doing anything in the game,
we'd all sit around the tailor shops making skull caps. Monster
hunting is nowhere near the most efficient way of making money in UO.
Even if you exploit the system mercilessly, you'll still make less
money than a good tailor mule. For that matter, just make a thief and
take him to Deceit. He'll make more money than 5 adventurers on any
given night.
That said, I do think OSI needs to adjust monster loot. Hopefully they
will do soon.
>
>Also I'd like to point out that sometimes the best laid plans fall
>apart when a couple of high level monsters spawn right on your head.
>
>I also oppose bug exploiters ... but I think it is OSI's job to
>decide what is an exploit. It's their game after all.
I don't need OSI to decide for me what an exploit is. I can decide for
myself. I considered what the guy did to be an exploit and I took
legitimate action within the game to correct it.
James McCollom
>Seems to me that you were bored and looking to mess with him. Well, you did
>and it was fun for you (and probably for him as well, if he would admit it.)
>But don't come here and try to convince anybody that it was a noble act or
>something. You just messed with somebody and enjoyed it.
I have to agree that you were just looking for a reason to mess with
someone. Everyone has their own way of dealing with each experience.
If you prefer to fight a poison Elemental one on one..go for it. If
another prefers to protect himself and still stay in the fight..thats
his business. If your actions were valid then you should be down in
that dungeon with no armor ao weaponry to show how REAL it can be. I
prefer to fight most creatures one on one also but I wouldn't interfer
with another players methods. What gives you the right to decide what
is right or wrong? What you did was as bad as any PK in the game. It
would have been different if you moved the boxes and joined in to help
the other guy...nope you left him to die. Sheesh...mind your own
business!!
Richard Cortese
>
> If he's not blocking and endangering anyone with his flour bags and
> boxes, leave him alone.
more to it then that. Sackers by nature are power gamers. Frequently
when I have run into them, they have a tendancy to claim an entire area,
"I was here first" kind of thing. The spawn is set up such that it
usually takes 4-5 people just to survive it. Now you have one guy
looking for a little bit of monster mashing & another guy hogging every
monster that spawns in an area just because he had 42 gold and bought 3
chests from the provisioner. This is wrong. If you think it is right,
take it to its extreme with someone blocking off a dungeon right after
the entrance so no one can get around.
In my mind, it doesn't matter if some clown blocks the entrance to a
mine, a tailor shop, a magic shop, a teleporter, or a section of the
dungeon such that he is the only one that can use it. Hogs & pigs get
slaughtered or at least they should be.
Only exception: If they are the only ones in the dungeon, then maybe.
Damocles
McCollom) wrote:
>
>
>I have to agree that you were just looking for a reason to mess with
>someone. Everyone has their own way of dealing with each experience.
>If you prefer to fight a poison Elemental one on one..go for it. If
>another prefers to protect himself and still stay in the fight..thats
>his business. If your actions were valid then you should be down in
>that dungeon with no armor ao weaponry to show how REAL it can be. I
>prefer to fight most creatures one on one also but I wouldn't interfer
>with another players methods. What gives you the right to decide what
>is right or wrong? What you did was as bad as any PK in the game. It
>would have been different if you moved the boxes and joined in to help
>the other guy...nope you left him to die. Sheesh...mind your own
>business!!
Look, he wasn't going to die. Monster AI is so bad that you have to be
badly lagged or trapped in a large spawn to die from them, unless you
do choose to fight. He didn't even get scratched by them. If I'd
wanted the guy dead, I would have walked into his fire field and
whacked him.
If I see some SOB blocking off a corridor and herding monsters towards
it so he can light up a smoke and wait for them to die, I'm going to
move the damn boxes. I consider that to be a total abuse of the
system.
Oreh Ta Egral (GM Lagger)
Damocles wrote in message <3622d9cb...@news.slnt1.on.wave.home.com>...
>
>If I see some SOB blocking off a corridor and herding monsters towards
>it so he can light up a smoke and wait for them to die, I'm going to
>move the damn boxes. I consider that to be a total abuse of the
>system.
>
I dont use drop bags or boxes, and haven't even once tried it. I prefer to
fight nose to nose, yep...I die a lot. I just don't give a shit. Thats my
play style! I dont infringe on anyone with it. Now I've seen it being
done, and gone on my happy way, hell I have a friend that makes it common
practice. A group of them take turns. Sounds boring to me, but thats their
play style. If you pulled the bag on Great Lakes you would get gang banged
by a bunch of people that normally wouldn't attack another human. They
would consider you a lamer. Your antics would now be infringing on their
play style, and now that makes you as good a target as a thief, exploiter,
house breaker, or PK. BTW, yes bag pullers are on Great Lakes, and they are
typically lamers that are well known for other lame tactics, they are dealt
with.
--
Oreh Ta Egral (CoP)
GM Lagger, GM Connection Lost, GM Dead Guy
Great Lakes
Damocles
<sp...@me.net> wrote:
>
>I dont use drop bags or boxes, and haven't even once tried it. I prefer to
>fight nose to nose, yep...I die a lot. I just don't give a shit. Thats my
>play style! I dont infringe on anyone with it. Now I've seen it being
>done, and gone on my happy way, hell I have a friend that makes it common
>practice. A group of them take turns. Sounds boring to me, but thats their
>play style. If you pulled the bag on Great Lakes you would get gang banged
>by a bunch of people that normally wouldn't attack another human. They
>would consider you a lamer. Your antics would now be infringing on their
>play style, and now that makes you as good a target as a thief, exploiter,
>house breaker, or PK. BTW, yes bag pullers are on Great Lakes, and they are
>typically lamers that are well known for other lame tactics, they are dealt
>with.
Jesus...like I said, if I'd wanted the stupid bastard dead, I would
have walked in his fire field. He attacked me afterwards and was no
match for me, but then the sort of people who use those kinds of
cheats usually aren't.
It's not a question of style, any more than duping is a style of play.
It is a cheat. Period.
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
OSI has said that illegal house break-in and duping is not only
cheating, but bannable. GM's have also made it clear that mage abuse
is also bannable.
If you try to force your ideas of how the game should be played on
other people then you will be seen as a jerk and a pk.
But it's your choice. Just don't try to pretend to tell other people
how they should have fun in the game. That's arrogant beyond belief.
Reminds me of a story, of a guy who stopped in to Wind and saw mage
abuse going on. I imagine he could just feel his hard earned resist
turning worthless as he watched. He started to attack the abusers when
they turned grey from the safety of town. The abusers started whining
to me, and I told em .... "well he has a problem with it, perhaps the
gm's don't care (they didn't at the time) ... but he has a legitimate
grief ... so you deal with it".
Well guess what? After 30 minutes of trying to hastle the abusers,
this guy had joined in and was using em to. When asked, he muttered
something about if you can't beat em, join em.
Corwin
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
paths of escape they should be removed. End of story. But this isn't
what Damocles was talking about.
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
to things you *think* are explots and cheats.
Flour bags are part of the game. Firewalls are part of the game.
Monsters are part of the game. Dropping flour bags is an acceptable
action.
Get a life.
Try going to Destard level one when it is filled with spawn and just
even try surviving without building a fort. Why does it matter whether
the fort is built with stone or with flour bags?
You probably thought Dorothy was a bug exploiter for throwing water on
the Wicked Witch ....
Sparky
NO it's not a cheat. If you pulled that self-righteous crap around me
i'd E-bolt ya too. If OSI wants it changed they will change it. Right
now OSI has deemed monsters too stupid to move chests. Until they do
what you did is no diferent than luring monsters into the room and then
hiding...
Sparky LS
James McCollom
>On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:09:32 -0500, "Oreh Ta Egral (GM Lagger)"
><sp...@me.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>I dont use drop bags or boxes, and haven't even once tried it. I prefer to
>>fight nose to nose, yep...I die a lot. I just don't give a shit. Thats my
>>play style! I dont infringe on anyone with it. Now I've seen it being
>>done, and gone on my happy way, hell I have a friend that makes it common
>>practice. A group of them take turns. Sounds boring to me, but thats their
>>play style. If you pulled the bag on Great Lakes you would get gang banged
>>by a bunch of people that normally wouldn't attack another human. They
>>would consider you a lamer. Your antics would now be infringing on their
>>play style, and now that makes you as good a target as a thief, exploiter,
>>house breaker, or PK. BTW, yes bag pullers are on Great Lakes, and they are
>>typically lamers that are well known for other lame tactics, they are dealt
>>with.
>
>Jesus...like I said, if I'd wanted the stupid bastard dead, I would
>have walked in his fire field. He attacked me afterwards and was no
>match for me, but then the sort of people who use those kinds of
>cheats usually aren't.
>
>It's not a question of style, any more than duping is a style of play.
>It is a cheat. Period.
It is not a cheat to use to use the resources supplied by the game to
your advantage. It's also a long way from and of the other cheats
you've mentioned (duping and such). You keep saying you're not a PK.
This is the same crap that others say when they herd a group of ettins
into a room to kill off other players while they hide and wait to
clean up. If he had died due to YOUR intervention in his setup..as far
as I'm concerned you would be the killer.
What I totally don't understand is what business it is of yours how
others play the game. If you don't like it ....move on for goodness
sake.
James McCollom
>On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:03:10 -0400, Sparky
><uoon...@lake.superior.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>NO it's not a cheat. If you pulled that self-righteous crap around me
>>i'd E-bolt ya too. If OSI wants it changed they will change it. Right
>>now OSI has deemed monsters too stupid to move chests. Until they do
>>what you did is no diferent than luring monsters into the room and then
>>hiding...
>>
>>Sparky LS
>
>I'll state this again: if I had wanted to kill the dumb son of a
>bitch, I would have walked into his firefield and whacked the bastard.
>He was in NO danger of death from the trapped monsters, he didn't even
>get a scratch. In fact, they ended up targeting ME.
Why do you keep saying this when the point is you should have just
minded your own business and moved on instead of deciding that Gilbert
had to play by YOUR rules. I don't remember your name on the box or
anywhere in the guide book to UO.
>
>They can ebolt me all they want, but they'll get a fight if they do.
>Gilbert ended up taking a few cheap shots at me and then recalling
>out.
>
slip
There are certain guilds, i won't mention them, that i know have used
the resist bug. I won't duel these ppl, what's the point? I know the
decks stacked against me. I also don't bother to try to bombard them
with EBs, i just use a bow. After attacking one particular char with 3
EBs in a row, and him turning around and going 'hehe' i decided, why
even waste the mana. Good thing you can't resist bolts.
slip
Damocles
Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
>Stop comparing things which OSI says are bannable exploits and cheats
>to things you *think* are explots and cheats.
So you need a company to think for you? If I deem something to be a
cheat, I will take action against it.
>
>Flour bags are part of the game. Firewalls are part of the game.
>Monsters are part of the game. Dropping flour bags is an acceptable
>action.
Feathers are a part of the game. People are using them to gain 100
strength and 100 dexterity in an hour or two of macroing. You don't
even need UOE to do it. Is that an acceptable action?
>
>Get a life.
Ad hominem ignored.
>
>Try going to Destard level one when it is filled with spawn and just
>even try surviving without building a fort. Why does it matter whether
>the fort is built with stone or with flour bags?
If you can't handle a dungeon, don't go there. Why is this so hard to
understand? I don't go to Destard because I know I'll stand a good
chance of getting toasted. I also don't go to the lower levels of
Hythloth without a group of players, because I know I'll end up dead
if I do.
I know all the little tricks, my friend. I could take a newbie thief
to Deceit and make 5K an hour stealing from skeletal knights and
mages. I could create a newbie mage, buy a firefield scroll and some
regs, gather up some flour bags and hit the dungeons and do what
dumbass was doing when I found him.
I choose not to do these things because I consider them to be cheap
and an abuse of the game. You'll notice that I do NOT propose taking
official action against these people, though I do hope OSI will fix
monster AI so it's not a problem. I don't want to ban them, but I will
take PERSONAL action against them. That's MY choice.
Damocles
<uoon...@lake.superior.com> wrote:
>
>NO it's not a cheat. If you pulled that self-righteous crap around me
>i'd E-bolt ya too. If OSI wants it changed they will change it. Right
>now OSI has deemed monsters too stupid to move chests. Until they do
>what you did is no diferent than luring monsters into the room and then
>hiding...
>
>Sparky LS
I'll state this again: if I had wanted to kill the dumb son of a
bitch, I would have walked into his firefield and whacked the bastard.
He was in NO danger of death from the trapped monsters, he didn't even
get a scratch. In fact, they ended up targeting ME.
They can ebolt me all they want, but they'll get a fight if they do.
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
I can kill em ... but it often takes 4-5 hits and high magery. Also
keep in mind, you can get lucky and they just fail the resist check a
couple of times. Gotta admit, I saw this coming and started tanking
myself up so that I could compete.
Corwin
Damocles
Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
>Damocles,
>
>OSI has said that illegal house break-in and duping is not only
>cheating, but bannable. GM's have also made it clear that mage abuse
>is also bannable.
So we wait for the almighty company to make up our minds for us.
Sorry, I decide what's right and wrong.
Thankfully, DD has said that's on the agenda for one of the upcoming
patches. The fact that they are going to patch it says a lot about how
OSI sees it, don't you think?
>
>If you try to force your ideas of how the game should be played on
>other people then you will be seen as a jerk and a pk.
You can call me a jerk, but a PK? No...a pk would have walked into his
fire field.
>
>But it's your choice. Just don't try to pretend to tell other people
>how they should have fun in the game. That's arrogant beyond belief.
I think it's wrong, and I took action against it. Period.
>Reminds me of a story, of a guy who stopped in to Wind and saw mage
>abuse going on. I imagine he could just feel his hard earned resist
>turning worthless as he watched. He started to attack the abusers when
>they turned grey from the safety of town. The abusers started whining
>to me, and I told em .... "well he has a problem with it, perhaps the
>gm's don't care (they didn't at the time) ... but he has a legitimate
>grief ... so you deal with it".
>
>Well guess what? After 30 minutes of trying to hastle the abusers,
>this guy had joined in and was using em to. When asked, he muttered
>something about if you can't beat em, join em.
>
Yes, I remember when the mage abuse just started up. I've been
suffering in PvP combat because I don't have the 100% resist that
others do. But I didn't use the cheat then because I considered it
wrong, not because OSI was taking its usual plodding steps towards
dealing with it.
James McCollom
>On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:27:04 GMT, cor...@wind.atlantic.com (Corwin of
>Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
>
>>Stop comparing things which OSI says are bannable exploits and cheats
>>to things you *think* are explots and cheats.
>
>So you need a company to think for you? If I deem something to be a
>cheat, I will take action against it.
So we shouldn't let the company do our thinking, I guess we should let
you decide what is right or wrong. Man can your ego get any bigger?
>
>>
>>Flour bags are part of the game. Firewalls are part of the game.
>>Monsters are part of the game. Dropping flour bags is an acceptable
>>action.
>
>Feathers are a part of the game. People are using them to gain 100
>strength and 100 dexterity in an hour or two of macroing. You don't
>even need UOE to do it. Is that an acceptable action?
OSI has stated that they don't approve of macroing but they also
havent taken it out. I agree that it;s a crappy way to get what you
haven't earned. Too bad it's done. It just reflects on the person
doing it.
>
>>
>>Get a life.
>
>Ad hominem ignored.
>
>
>I know all the little tricks, my friend. I could take a newbie thief
>to Deceit and make 5K an hour stealing from skeletal knights and
>mages. I could create a newbie mage, buy a firefield scroll and some
>regs, gather up some flour bags and hit the dungeons and do what
>dumbass was doing when I found him.
>
>I choose not to do these things because I consider them to be cheap
>and an abuse of the game. You'll notice that I do NOT propose taking
>official action against these people, though I do hope OSI will fix
>monster AI so it's not a problem. I don't want to ban them, but I will
>take PERSONAL action against them. That's MY choice.
>
Official action!! Please. I would love to hear the conversation you
would have with a counsellor about bagging. I'm sure they would
rewrite the whole game's code just to satisfy you.
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
>>other people then you will be seen as a jerk and a pk.
>
>You can call me a jerk, but a PK? No...a pk would have walked into his
>fire field.
Umm if you read carefully you will see that I called you neither. But
trust me if you help a monster to kill a player its just as bad as if
you did it yourself.
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
for encouragement or applause. Well you didn't get it, so now what
are you gonna do?
Damocles
McCollom) wrote:
>phae...@yahoo.com (Damocles) wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:27:04 GMT, cor...@wind.atlantic.com (Corwin of
>>Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
>>
>>>Stop comparing things which OSI says are bannable exploits and cheats
>>>to things you *think* are explots and cheats.
>>
>>So you need a company to think for you? If I deem something to be a
>>cheat, I will take action against it.
>
>So we shouldn't let the company do our thinking, I guess we should let
>you decide what is right or wrong. Man can your ego get any bigger?
I'm not deciding for anyone but myself, little dude. Some people
attack players with names like MaStAKiLAh and Pimp Daddy Joe, because
they dislike the names those players use. OSI permits those names, but
those other players made a PERSONAL choice to deal with them on their
own terms.
That's what I did.
>>
>>Feathers are a part of the game. People are using them to gain 100
>>strength and 100 dexterity in an hour or two of macroing. You don't
>>even need UOE to do it. Is that an acceptable action?
>
>OSI has stated that they don't approve of macroing but they also
>havent taken it out. I agree that it;s a crappy way to get what you
>haven't earned. Too bad it's done. It just reflects on the person
>doing it.
Damn right it does, but that doesn't you have to sit by and do nothing
if you see it in action.
>>
>>I choose not to do these things because I consider them to be cheap
>>and an abuse of the game. You'll notice that I do NOT propose taking
>>official action against these people, though I do hope OSI will fix
>>monster AI so it's not a problem. I don't want to ban them, but I will
>>take PERSONAL action against them. That's MY choice.
>>
>Official action!! Please. I would love to hear the conversation you
>would have with a counsellor about bagging. I'm sure they would
>rewrite the whole game's code just to satisfy you.
Funny you should mention that. In the last HOC chat Designer Dragon
said that monster AI was being rewritten so that they would be able to
pick up boxes and flour bags.
Damocles
Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
Heh, cry in a corner, I guess.
I posted this to the group because I thought it was an interesting
story. You can agree or disagree with it as you see fit.
Damocles
McCollom) wrote:
>>
>>I'll state this again: if I had wanted to kill the dumb son of a
>>bitch, I would have walked into his firefield and whacked the bastard.
>>He was in NO danger of death from the trapped monsters, he didn't even
>>get a scratch. In fact, they ended up targeting ME.
>
>Why do you keep saying this when the point is you should have just
>minded your own business and moved on instead of deciding that Gilbert
>had to play by YOUR rules. I don't remember your name on the box or
>anywhere in the guide book to UO.
>>
Okay, Corwyn. Let's take another example. Let's say that instead of
encountering Gilbert bagging monsters for easy kills, I see him
attacking some poor schmuck. Should I say, "Well hey, that's permitted
by the rules of the game. Pkill away!"?
It's a matter of personal choice. If it's permissible for Gilbert to
drop the bags to trap monsters, it's permissible for me to go and pick
them up, just as it would be for me to interrupt a pkilling in
progress.
Zurtran
incident. Maybe it wasnt the best way to deal with the situation.. but
IMHO this guy is just as bad (and just the same type) as someone running
around yellin "MINE MINE" to every monster that spawns.
What dolt *CANT* use this method on just about any monster? Monsters
have different levels of difficulty for a reason... not just to have
more treasure than the next.. but to provide a bigger *CHALLENGE*. By
using this method there is no challenge.. all I see is a greedy player
bringing monsters into his personal butcher shop.
Sure you can say this is legal.. but what do you think this guy would
have done if Damocles stood up, opened up a hole and fought the monsters
toe to toe then grabbed some of the loot? That guy would have been
whining about it even though his risk was zero and Damocles risk was
100%.. end of story.
If you are going to bitch at Damocles for picking up the box and setting
the monsters free you might as well bitch at yourselves because everyone
does something to another player to adversly affect their playstyle.
You attack murderers, greys, blues dont you? It's the same shit. Quit
being a bunch of titty babies and realize greed when you see it. God,
whats next.. should we start People for the Ethical Treatment of
People/Monsters?
Zurtran
Zurtran
trapping monsters in houses.. this is the same thing ***EXCEPT*** YOU
CAN MOVE THE BOXES when they are not in a house.. otherwise you would be
bitching up a storm.
Zurtran
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
>strength and 100 dexterity in an hour or two of macroing. You don't
>even need UOE to do it. Is that an acceptable action?
Oh is this the use bowyering on one feather and one bolt at a time
method? Sounds legit to me - but I'd be surprised if that method
actually raises stats that high.
What about musicianship? I can raise that thru the roof by just
pounding on a drum? What about snooping? What about any melee weapon?
etc. etc.
How fast is too fast for you?
Dundee
Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
>Oh is this the use bowyering on one feather and one bolt at a time
>method? Sounds legit to me - but I'd be surprised if that method
>actually raises stats that high.
Uhm... this is an exploit in which you take ONE feather and walk away
with 100 str, 100 dex, 25 int and even get to keep the feather.
--
Dundee of Lake Superior - Skep...@SPAMISantisocial.com
Townstone proposal, Housing proposal and Other Stuff:
http://dundee.uong.com
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
don't expect to be liked for it.
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
usually get for one of my how to fix UO posts ... ;P
slip
only 89 magery.
slip
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
>with 100 str, 100 dex, 25 int and even get to keep the feather.
Does this also work around the skill delay? I mean it wouldn't be too
hard to collect enough bolts and feathers to last 2 hours if you could
actually raise your stats that fast ... and it would be legit ...
I'm thinking people are exagerating here. Carpenters also used to be
able to raise skill without using material, but you sure couldn't max
out your stats that way.
In the end you can get 100/100 of anything if you have a couple of
weeks.
Corwin
Damocles
Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
This is not a couple of weeks, it's a couple of hours. If you don't
believe me, go to www.xSploitz.com .
Scott Shaffer
>>
>>Why do you keep saying this when the point is you should have just
>>minded your own business and moved on instead of deciding that Gilbert
>>had to play by YOUR rules. I don't remember your name on the box or
>>anywhere in the guide book to UO.
>>>
>
>Okay, Corwyn. Let's take another example. Let's say that instead of
>encountering Gilbert bagging monsters for easy kills, I see him
>attacking some poor schmuck. Should I say, "Well hey, that's permitted
>by the rules of the game. Pkill away!"?
>
>It's a matter of personal choice. If it's permissible for Gilbert to
>drop the bags to trap monsters, it's permissible for me to go and pick
>them up, just as it would be for me to interrupt a pkilling in
>progress.
>
enjoyed when he attacked you, which you *knew* was going to happen, don't kid
us.
Just don't come in here and claim you are noble for doing so. What you did is
no different that pickpocketing.
Scott
---
Note: Remove nospam from my address if you want to email me!
---
Damocles
Shaffer) wrote:
>>
>>It's a matter of personal choice. If it's permissible for Gilbert to
>>drop the bags to trap monsters, it's permissible for me to go and pick
>>them up, just as it would be for me to interrupt a pkilling in
>>progress.
>>
>Look, what you did was decide to screw with somebody. You had fun, you even
>enjoyed when he attacked you, which you *knew* was going to happen, don't kid
>us.
No, actually, I was there to hunt monsters. If I'd wanted to screw
with him, I would have attacked and killed him. It was within my power
to do so without even getting a count, but I did not. I simply removed
his little boxes so that if he wanted to kill the PE, he'd actually
have to fight it.
How you can compare that to stealing from him is beyond me, but hey,
whatever....
The Master
> Come on, are you telling me you think it's okay to exploit a defect in
> AI to essentially reduce high level monsters to money and item crops?
> There was no risk in what he was doing. Poison Elementals are supposed
> to be bad ass, they are supposed to be extremely hard to kill. Boxing
> them makes them easier than a couple of mongbats.
>
> I didn't take his stupid boxes to kill him, I took them so he couldn't
> keep cheating. He chose to come and attack me afterwards.
OK, you were cheating. It's all a mater of what definitions you want to impose
on others.
> I'm sick to death of all the damned exploiters. I'm not going to mourn
> if a few of their tricks result in their getting killed.
And they will not be too torn up over your demise, either. I, for one, do not
use forts unless someone I'm with does that (I do make use of terrain, though,
so sue me), but if someone starts messing with those bags or boxes I consider
that person a pk, and will kill on sight. Paralyze and let the monster do them
while I put bags back in place, whatever.
Cheating? If it were cheating it would be very easy to fix, just remove the
"obstacle" flag from the item, so it does not block movement. OS put that in,
and leaves it in, for a reason. And whether we are placing flourbags,
sandbags, concrete blocks, Sunday NY Times, digging trenches, or telling the
critters "step on a crack and break your mother's back!" it is valid to attempt
to do a little military engineering. Screwing around with this is valid pk
tactics. Killing the pk is valid self-defense.
The Master
> >acceptable? Only going toe-to-toe with the PE is OK? What if he is a
> >character that doesn't have the ability to do this? Should he just stay away?
>
> Um, yes, that's exactly what he should do. The lower levels of a
> dungeon like Deceit are no place to go if you are not a powerful
> character.
Then everyone should just macro until they have numbers that make their fighting
with PE an automatic kill. Or work like stupid little ants in this
soon-to-be-dying game to get those numbers through other means. Right. I'll pass.
> That is the universal pattern of all roleplaying
> games...your skills progress to a point where you can penetrate into
> the lower levels of a given area.
Playing ability is supposed to have something to do with it, too. Like knowing
when and how to retreat, use arrows, use magic, heal, or GTF out. The terrain is
there to Use. The ability to put obstructions in place was deliberately coded in.
True, I think it would be interesting if some monsters had some ability to move or
jump over the obstructions, as long as is was not an automatic kill against the
players if they did so, but portable obstacles are a part of the game.
> Deceit has areas where new characters can fight skeletons and zombies,
> then skeletal knights and mages, then liches, etc.
You are leaving out the real monsters that inhabit all those areas. pk.
> Going right down to the PE area, or even the lich lord area, is ridiculous.
I'm sorry you don't like it. I will continue to attempt to stretch my playing
ability, challenging the tough guys, BS'ing the wyrms, walling the large packs of
hellhounds, slugging it out with the earths, as I see fit. If someone messes with
me, endangers me, steals from me, I will do my best to kill them, and I will
encourage others to do the same. And almost everyone will agree with me on the
matter.
> My complaint is that it's a cheat.
It is not.
Hey, instead of complaining that others are trying to do something they way they
see fit, why not regale us with accounts of how you are so great you don't have to
do that? That, at least, would be somewhat positive. What you are doing here is
not, and it is clearly doomed.
Damocles
<NOSPAM_masters@NOSPAM_uswest.net> wrote:
>Damocles wrote:
>
>> Come on, are you telling me you think it's okay to exploit a defect in
>> AI to essentially reduce high level monsters to money and item crops?
>> There was no risk in what he was doing. Poison Elementals are supposed
>> to be bad ass, they are supposed to be extremely hard to kill. Boxing
>> them makes them easier than a couple of mongbats.
>>
>> I didn't take his stupid boxes to kill him, I took them so he couldn't
>> keep cheating. He chose to come and attack me afterwards.
>
>OK, you were cheating. It's all a mater of what definitions you want to impose
>on others.
>
You, the king of the plonkers, the group's greatest pk hater, say this
to me?
>
>> I'm sick to death of all the damned exploiters. I'm not going to mourn
>> if a few of their tricks result in their getting killed.
>
>
>And they will not be too torn up over your demise, either. I, for one, do not
>use forts unless someone I'm with does that (I do make use of terrain, though,
>so sue me), but if someone starts messing with those bags or boxes I consider
>that person a pk, and will kill on sight. Paralyze and let the monster do them
>while I put bags back in place, whatever.
I make use of terrain too, but I consider boxes and flour bags to be
an abuse of a defect in monster AI. It was NOT a pk situation...the
monster were distanced from him, he was in no danger of being killed
by them. If I'd wanted to whack him I'd have stepped in his fire field
and sent a few ebolts his way.
>
>Cheating? If it were cheating it would be very easy to fix, just remove the
>"obstacle" flag from the item, so it does not block movement. OS put that in,
>and leaves it in, for a reason. And whether we are placing flourbags,
>sandbags, concrete blocks, Sunday NY Times, digging trenches, or telling the
>critters "step on a crack and break your mother's back!" it is valid to attempt
>to do a little military engineering. Screwing around with this is valid pk
>tactics. Killing the pk is valid self-defense.
>
Call it what you want, OSI is fixing it so monsters do pick up
obstacles in front of them, that suggests it IS just a defect that
they are trying to correct.
I just don't see what the big deal is about fighting monsters that you
and your friends are equipped to deal with and not fighting the ones
that are over your head.
The Master
> I'll state this again: if I had wanted to kill the dumb son of a
Whoa. Careful. There are a lot of bitchs around who might not like your loose
talk. <nudge>
OK, you have made your point. Several people have responded. One has said
anything even slightly in support of your idea, and all the others are
opposed. If you want to be told you did good, go put this on a pk board. you
should know better by now than to believe we are going to like what you did, or
agree with you about what constitutes cheating.
Now, can we get on to discussing something really important? Like banning
those damned jester hats?
The Master
> Okay, Corwyn. Let's take another example. Let's say that instead of
> encountering Gilbert bagging monsters for easy kills, I see him
> attacking some poor schmuck. Should I say, "Well hey, that's permitted
> by the rules of the game. Pkill away!"?
>
> It's a matter of personal choice. If it's permissible for Gilbert to
> drop the bags to trap monsters, it's permissible for me to go and pick
> them up, just as it would be for me to interrupt a pkilling in
> progress.
As I said elsewhere, what you did is valid pk tactics. And it is also valid
for him to get his friends together (me included) and hunt you down for what
you did.
The Master
> I hate to dissapoint everyone here but I will defend Damocles in this
> incident. Maybe it wasnt the best way to deal with the situation.. but
> IMHO this guy is just as bad (and just the same type) as someone running
> around yellin "MINE MINE" to every monster that spawns.
I see. And does buying spools of thread constitute a cheat because some people
bake bread? Yeah, I fail to agree with your equivalences. Trapping and
killing a monster that can slaughter whole parties of Master asskickers is not
the same as yelling MINE MINE!
> What dolt *CANT* use this method on just about any monster?
What matter if we can? The guy gets there before you do, finds a critter,
traps and proceeds to kill it, and you claim he did something wrong? Or that
there is any right in disrupting his activity, and putting him at such extreme
risk? Most of us do not agree.
The Master
Once again, the irrelevant equivalence. Trapping as a means of killing is not
the same as capturing to keep what was not meant (as per statements of the
designer) to be captured and kept.
And while I cannot move the boxes in someone's house (because I'm not a
cheater), I can remove the monsters. Did so yesterday, and probably will again
today. Just call a GM.
Jeff Gentry
: What matter if we can? The guy gets there before you do, finds a critter,
: traps and proceeds to kill it, and you claim he did something wrong? Or that
: there is any right in disrupting his activity, and putting him at such extrem
I don't normally like fighting monsters. I went and tried it for a few
weeks a while back. What I saw made me more sick then the twisted things
that some of the biggest jerk PKs do. People wouldh ave whole rooms boxed
up, and then trap every monster that spawns trapped nicely. People would
have laid "claim" to monsters that haven't even spawned yet.
Sorry, but no. If I see a monster, and I feel like attacking it, I'm
going to attack it. Furthermore, if you are hindering my ability to actually
have a challenge fighting a monster by boxing them up, then by damn, i'm
moving the boxes.
*furthermore* .... if your boxes are hindering my movement, I am *not*
going to waste reagents teleporting over it. I've seen many a person killed
down in shame because they were blocking my path to the red mages in the
tower by the poison spawn. I will not waste my reagents on tehir cowardly
asses ... so I move the box out of my way, poison follows me in and wastes
them.
I then proceed to laugh at them for being assholes.
Loki Dahlmarth, LS
Damocles
<NOSPAM_masters@NOSPAM_uswest.net> wrote:
>
>
>As I said elsewhere, what you did is valid pk tactics. And it is also valid
>for him to get his friends together (me included) and hunt you down for what
>you did.
>
That is such bullshit. For the last time, if I'd wanted him dead he
would be a corpse. He came up to me afterwards, starting talking tough
in the kewl dood way ("i can kill pes myself would have no problem
with u") and then attacked me. He was cut to pieces, but survived
because a lich targeted me and gave him time to run away. He then
proceeded to ebolt me from hiding while I was fighting skeletal
knights. THAT is a valid pk tactic, and it looked like one he employs
often.
You should be more careful with your friends, TM...I think you may
have a few nasty pks among them.
Damocles
<NOSPAM_masters@NOSPAM_uswest.net> wrote:
>Damocles wrote:
>
>> I'll state this again: if I had wanted to kill the dumb son of a
>
>Whoa. Careful. There are a lot of bitchs around who might not like your loose
>talk. <nudge>
>
>OK, you have made your point. Several people have responded. One has said
>anything even slightly in support of your idea, and all the others are
>opposed. If you want to be told you did good, go put this on a pk board. you
>should know better by now than to believe we are going to like what you did, or
>agree with you about what constitutes cheating.
Look, let me say this again: if I had wanted to kill Gilbert, I would
have walked into his fire field and immediately attacked him while the
monsters were still targeted on him. His chances of survival would
have been NIL. THAT would be a pk tactic. All I did was pick up his
stupid boxes and free up the line of monsters he had trapped and the
corridor he had blocked off. The monsters themselves were too far from
him to be a threat.
Man, calling me a pk of all things. I guess everyone holds on tight to
what makes them money.
Dundee
Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
>I'm thinking people are exagerating here. Carpenters also used to be
>able to raise skill without using material, but you sure couldn't max
>out your stats that way.
You'd also gain a lot of carpentry skill, and the rate of stat-gain
would decrease as the rate of skill-gain increased. So eventually you
could macro all night for a .2 increase in carpentry and no increase
to your stats.
THIS, however, is an exploit in which you gain very little skill (or
even no) skill - which you don't want anyway - and walk away with
100/100/25 stats.
>In the end you can get 100/100 of anything if you have a couple of
>weeks.
It doesn't take a couple of weeks though. It's quick. And it's not
using an action skill, so there's no skill delay.
No two ways about it - this is an exploit.
Zurtran
is no difference here. I am just here before you and laying claim to
the mines..
So what if you cant get to it.. it doesnt matter anyway it's mine.
There is no difference here. Oh, what's that.. you say you cant move
those boxes and that makes it unfair? So now if the ability to move the
boxes is your issue then why are you down on someone for doing just
that.. moving boxes..
Either that or you have no problem with people blocking off resources
from other players.
James McCollom
>On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:49:21 GMT, jt...@interaccess.com (James
>McCollom) wrote:
>
>>phae...@yahoo.com (Damocles) wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:27:04 GMT, cor...@wind.atlantic.com (Corwin of
>>>Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
>>>
>>>>Stop comparing things which OSI says are bannable exploits and cheats
>>>>to things you *think* are explots and cheats.
>>>
>>>So you need a company to think for you? If I deem something to be a
>>>cheat, I will take action against it.
>>
>>So we shouldn't let the company do our thinking, I guess we should let
>>you decide what is right or wrong. Man can your ego get any bigger?
>
>I'm not deciding for anyone but myself, little dude. Some people
>attack players with names like MaStAKiLAh and Pimp Daddy Joe, because
>they dislike the names those players use. OSI permits those names, but
>those other players made a PERSONAL choice to deal with them on their
>own terms.
Little dude..heheh..duh
actually you did make decision for gilbert by removing HIS boxes which
as I have said..was none of your business.
The name thing is a whole nother thing and OSU should and has
intervened occasionally.
>
>That's what I did.
AGAIN..even tho it wasn't your business.
>
>
>>>
>>>Feathers are a part of the game. People are using them to gain 100
>>>strength and 100 dexterity in an hour or two of macroing. You don't
>>>even need UOE to do it. Is that an acceptable action?
>>
>>OSI has stated that they don't approve of macroing but they also
>>havent taken it out. I agree that it;s a crappy way to get what you
>>haven't earned. Too bad it's done. It just reflects on the person
>>doing it.
>
>Damn right it does, but that doesn't you have to sit by and do nothing
>if you see it in action.
You just love to make these lame comparisons to justify your
interference in someone elses setup. man!
>
>
>>>
>>>I choose not to do these things because I consider them to be cheap
>>>and an abuse of the game. You'll notice that I do NOT propose taking
>>>official action against these people, though I do hope OSI will fix
>>>monster AI so it's not a problem. I don't want to ban them, but I will
>>>take PERSONAL action against them. That's MY choice.
>>>
>>Official action!! Please. I would love to hear the conversation you
>>would have with a counsellor about bagging. I'm sure they would
>>rewrite the whole game's code just to satisfy you.
>
>Funny you should mention that. In the last HOC chat Designer Dragon
>said that monster AI was being rewritten so that they would be able to
>pick up boxes and flour bags.
I guess that jusy makes you one of the new monsters:))
>
James McCollom
>On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:57:15 GMT, cor...@wind.atlantic.com (Corwin of
>Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
>
>>Yes it's your choice ... and it seemed like you came to the NG looking
>>for encouragement or applause. Well you didn't get it, so now what
>>are you gonna do?
>
>Heh, cry in a corner, I guess.
>
>I posted this to the group because I thought it was an interesting
>story. You can agree or disagree with it as you see fit.
It sure has gotten a good disagreement going. :)
>
Damocles
McCollom) wrote:
>Little dude..heheh..duh
>actually you did make decision for gilbert by removing HIS boxes which
>as I have said..was none of your business.
>The name thing is a whole nother thing and OSU should and has
>intervened occasionally.
>>
>>That's what I did.
>AGAIN..even tho it wasn't your business.
>>
It's not my business when I see someone getting robbed or killed,
either. Nevertheless, I intervene if I think the victim needs saving.
>>>
>>>OSI has stated that they don't approve of macroing but they also
>>>havent taken it out. I agree that it;s a crappy way to get what you
>>>haven't earned. Too bad it's done. It just reflects on the person
>>>doing it.
>>
>>Damn right it does, but that doesn't you have to sit by and do nothing
>>if you see it in action.
>You just love to make these lame comparisons to justify your
>interference in someone elses setup. man!
Someone else's setup. Yeah, like a trapped lich lord in your house you
can macro archery off, or the mage just on the edge of town that casts
spells that do no damage so you can gain resist. God forbid someone
interferes with your setup.
The Master
> On Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:37:07 -0700, The Master
> <NOSPAM_masters@NOSPAM_uswest.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >As I said elsewhere, what you did is valid pk tactics. And it is also valid
> >for him to get his friends together (me included) and hunt you down for what
> >you did.
> >
>
> That is such bullshit.
How would you feel if I said you opinion, and you way of expressing it, were
cheating?
Richard Cortese
>
<snip>
> Feathers are a part of the game. People are using them to gain 100
> strength and 100 dexterity in an hour or two of macroing. You don't
> even need UOE to do it. Is that an acceptable action?
strenght & 80 dexterity after 80 hours, at least at the current level of
stat gain & as far back as I can remember.
>
> >
> >Get a life.
>
> Ad hominem ignored.
>
> >
> >Try going to Destard level one when it is filled with spawn and just
> >even try surviving without building a fort. Why does it matter whether
> >the fort is built with stone or with flour bags?
>
> If you can't handle a dungeon, don't go there. Why is this so hard to
> understand? I don't go to Destard because I know I'll stand a good
> chance of getting toasted. I also don't go to the lower levels of
> Hythloth without a group of players, because I know I'll end up dead
> if I do.
>
> I know all the little tricks, my friend. I could take a newbie thief
> to Deceit and make 5K an hour stealing from skeletal knights and
> mages. I could create a newbie mage, buy a firefield scroll and some
> regs, gather up some flour bags and hit the dungeons and do what
> dumbass was doing when I found him.
Damocles
<rico...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Damocles wrote:
>>
><snip>
>> Feathers are a part of the game. People are using them to gain 100
>> strength and 100 dexterity in an hour or two of macroing. You don't
>> even need UOE to do it. Is that an acceptable action?
>Nice to know I am not the only one given to hyperbole<grin>. Maybe 80
>strenght & 80 dexterity after 80 hours, at least at the current level of
>stat gain & as far back as I can remember.
>>
No, this is a cheat that will give you 100 str and 100 dex if you're
willing to live with low (20 to 25) int. Read up on it at
www.xploitz.com ... it involves feathers and rapid double click
macroing using a program like UOE. Anyone can get maxed out str and
dex in a couple of hours now.
Damocles
<NOSPAM_masters@NOSPAM_uswest.net> wrote:
>Damocles wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:37:07 -0700, The Master
>> <NOSPAM_masters@NOSPAM_uswest.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >As I said elsewhere, what you did is valid pk tactics. And it is also valid
>> >for him to get his friends together (me included) and hunt you down for what
>> >you did.
>> >
>>
>> That is such bullshit.
>
>How would you feel if I said you opinion, and you way of expressing it, were
>cheating?
>
I'd say you were talking out of your hat.
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
Who woulda thunk.
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
Trapped monsters and the mage resist exploiters are things GM's
actually respond to ... flour bags are not.
Invalid comparison.
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
this one ...
Just remember ... when you see a flock of newbie archer pk's with
their 100str/100int ... just get out that old Mind Blast spell
(assuming they haven't had time to exploit mages too :( )
Richard Cortese
f
> >stat gain & as far back as I can remember.
> >>
>
> No, this is a cheat that will give you 100 str and 100 dex if you're
> willing to live with low (20 to 25) int. Read up on it at
> www.xploitz.com ... it involves feathers and rapid double click
> macroing using a program like UOE. Anyone can get maxed out str and
> dex in a couple of hours now.
bug with the existing system vs a 3rd party program.
I did go to the xSploitz site & sure enough, it did not exactly inspire
me with confidence in OSI's ability to police their game. About 1/2 of
the complaints I have seen in the newsgoup with quick kills, steals,
getting passed language filters, what have you, have all shown up in the
game & used against me.
In two days on LS, I have seen everything from axehole behavior like
running into fire fields, to out & out cheating. One vendor had the
balls to advertize a weapon duping service: No wonder they can't get rid
of the one hit weapons.
At the bank in Serpent's Hold, some guy yelled "balance" & it came back
with 1.4 million gold, so I believe the duping bugs are alive and well.
Of course on LS you do actually have a lot of decent people, they may
even out number the jerks. I wonder how the jerks find the time to make
sure they touch each & every one of us as often as they do, in their own
special & pecular way? It is almost like they have an adjenda; "I plan
on uttering 20 vulgar comments and 30 racial slurs to 15 different
people. I will also tell at least five people that my murderer can kick
his ass before I call it a night."
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
delay using UOE or UOP then it's clearly an exploit.
I thought the original post said nothing special required....
Damocles
Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
You don't need UOE to do it, it's just faster. Say, the difference
between 3 hours of clicking and one hour of letting UOE run a macro.
Damocles
Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
Unfortunately, Mind Blast has never worked the way it was intended to.
I've never seen it do more than 2 or 3 points damage.
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
way that it impedes traffic or endangers other players,. then for sure
remove them ... but NOT when a poison elemental is breathing down
their neck.
If someone is using bags in a place they aren't even needed, then show
them a better way ...
Corwin (in favour of a bagless Wind)
Dundee
Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
>That wasn't clear ... if it's using a method to get around the skill
>delay using UOE or UOP then it's clearly an exploit.
There's no skill delay with Fletching so there's nothing for it to get
around.
>I thought the original post said nothing special required....
You can't macro it without a 3rd part util' such as Ezmacro or UOA or
UOE or UOP.
Or actually I think some generic Win95 utilities could even do the
trick.
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
>I've never seen it do more than 2 or 3 points damage.
Yeah minimal resist nerfs the spell ... but, if they don't take the
time to buildup some resist, give it a shot ;)
Jeff Gentry
: Unfortunately, Mind Blast has never worked the way it was intended to.
: I've never seen it do more than 2 or 3 points damage.
Not *entirely* true. In the first week of LS, my friend was a GM mage
(yes, already) with 95+ int. Some band of PKs was attacking us, and
as most folks were newbies, their int was not high. He MB'd one of them
and the guy promptly fell over dead.
Loki Dahlmarth, LS
Jeff Gentry
: I hope I was clear on my position. If someone is using bags in such a
: way that it impedes traffic or endangers other players,. then for sure
: remove them ... but NOT when a poison elemental is breathing down
: their neck.
Not the way I think. I like the "lesson teaching" method. I always
took (admittedly cruel) pleasure when I saw a wall of boxes blocking
a poison, but *also* the path that I had previously decided on. Thus,
I'd move the box and continue on to my destination, usually hearing a death
scream behind me.
Blue PK? Asshole? Nope. My path was blocked. Their cheap tactics
were stopping my right to access to the game world. That's where their
right to be cowards ends. Thus, they paid the price. And really, while
I don't want to try and repeat it, I *have* killed poisons (2x) without
blokcing them or getitng them stuck on anything *all by myself*. It
*can* be done.
Loki Dahlmarth, LS
Richard Cortese
>
> On Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:27:11 GMT, cor...@wind.atlantic.com (Corwin of
> Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
>
> >That wasn't clear ... if it's using a method to get around the skill
> >delay using UOE or UOP then it's clearly an exploit.
> >
>
> between 3 hours of clicking and one hour of letting UOE run a macro.
still say there is no way you can click fast enough to do it anything
like the ~400 tries a second you get for UOE.
I can time it, but basically you have to wait for the targeting cursor
to come up, then ack a click. This takes about 5 seconds when fletching.
Test it out yourself if you like. Just start a new chr at 50 bowyering,
45 strength, and click as fast as you want. I say you will not be able
to do more then 1 strenght point an hour or so even at starting stats.
Snooping is maybe 4 times a second in comparison <no target cursor> so
it has 20 times the abuse potiential. Naturally the fletching thing will
be fixed before anything is done about thieves<sigh>.
Just IMO: But fletching is technically not an exploit until you get 40%
bowyering. It consumes feathers up to that point, the 1 feather thing
that Dundee talked about is only for advanced bowyers.
Almost the same exact arguments can be made for alchemy. After a certain
level, I believe your chance for failure is nil while your cost of raw
materials is covered by the selling price of the potions. You end up
with an INT gain for free since you get 100% of your investment back
from selling the potions back to shops.
Doesn't really matter to me, fix them both, fix neither, ban all UOE
users is the only thing I know we can all agree on.
Richard Cortese
"Oh wow! Free flour! Thx dood!"
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
Personally, I'm not too inconvenienced to pickup a bag and drop it
back in place.
Glad to hear you can solo poisons without trapping ... but are you
saying you can do it cheaper, easier, and safer without trapping?
*rhetorical question*
No of course not. My idea of fun is *NOT* to go to a dungeon, try to
solo 5 poison elementals ... die on number 5, and then watch my corpse
get looted by UsUkmYaSs.
If they figure out a way to make the monsters smarter, the gamers will
just figure out a new way to kill em.
Michael McClellan
> Just IMO: But fletching is technically not an exploit until you get 40%
> bowyering. It consumes feathers up to that point, the 1 feather thing
> that Dundee talked about is only for advanced bowyers.
>
> Almost the same exact arguments can be made for alchemy. After a certain
> level, I believe your chance for failure is nil while your cost of raw
> materials is covered by the selling price of the potions. You end up
> with an INT gain for free since you get 100% of your investment back
> from selling the potions back to shops.
Huh? What shops do you sell your potions at? The only way I could ever
make my investment back is by selling to players. When I was building to 87
alchemy I always took a loss at the shops.
--
Misha of LS
Adept Alchemist
Damocles
<rico...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Damocles wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:27:11 GMT, cor...@wind.atlantic.com (Corwin of
>> Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
>>
>> >That wasn't clear ... if it's using a method to get around the skill
>> >delay using UOE or UOP then it's clearly an exploit.
>> >
>> >I thought the original post said nothing special required....
>>
>> You don't need UOE to do it, it's just faster. Say, the difference
>> between 3 hours of clicking and one hour of letting UOE run a macro.
>No, I can believe UOE extreme can do it in a really short time, but I
>still say there is no way you can click fast enough to do it anything
>like the ~400 tries a second you get for UOE.
Look, I know at least a dozen people on Ches who have created
characters and quickly macroed them up to 100 str and 100 dex. It's a
documented bug that's up on all the major bug sites. Maybe you do need
an external macro program for it to work properly. How should I know?
Does it matter? The fact is, people are using feathers to max out
strength and dexterity in an hour or two.
Richard Cortese
> Look, I know at least a dozen people on Ches who have created
Look, another guilty confession that I put just below the monster
trapping one. I found the fletching bug back in November or December of
last year & probably helped 40 or 50 people since then who made the
mistake of using the OSI character templates. Again, I don't know if I
was the first, but I know I told dozens of people about it & having used
it to help get newbies strenght up to 35 so they could equip a golf
club, I have some idea about how long it takes to gain strength.
> characters and quickly macroed them up to 100 str and 100 dex. It's a
They are cheaters, using UOE or UOP. No doubt in my mind & I don't care
what they may tell you, they are using one of those hacks.
Another guilty confession, my new LS chr has macro'ed this 16 hours over
the last two nights, netted 61 str, 22 int, 37 dex. Most of that gain
was from fighting monsters & animals, maybe 18 strength gain from the
feather thing. Absolutely nothing like the 100 20 100 your friends<if
that is the right word?> are talking about.
You have your friends on Ches saying they have done this.
You have me telling you I have done it the last two nights w/o using a
hack program & haven't seen 1/3 the gain they say they got in a couple
of hours.
If you or anyone else wants to check it out, I think they will find I am
right.
> documented bug that's up on all the major bug sites. Maybe you do need
> an external macro program for it to work properly. How should I know?
> Does it matter?
Nope
>The fact is, people are using feathers to max out
> strength and dexterity in an hour or two.
Let's get rid of feathers until this is fixed.
Biggest fact is they are using programs that result in instant banning
by OSI. Drawing another analogy, the hack programs created all those
black holes because of the bugs with poisoning/potions. The in game
poisoning function was fine in its own twisted way, but the hack
programs were the problem. It isn't a problem that some newbie with no
skills burns through 25 feathers to get get his bowyering up to 15% so
he can make a weapon to defend himself, the problem is the UOP & UOE
users abusing the system with client hacks.
Get all the bugs closed, fine. I just want to point out that while
everyone is standing around saying, "Those guys robbed the bank!" you
are standing there going, "And their get away car doesn't have current
registration!". There are bigger evils to be concerned with, like what
this UOE/UOP users will be doing with their hacked chrs & UOE/UOP once
they are ready to move out into the world.
Richard Cortese
how many have been sold to the shop already. I seem to recall pretty
consistantly getting 9 gold before the alchemist/poisoner rage came in.
Same thing with my bowyer now though too. Used to be able to get
reliable prices from shops indicating the quality of the bow. Since
"Made by GM Bowyer" heavies on all the vendors became 'in', I can't even
sell regular bows & heavy prices are all over the place.
Same thing holds true for insciption too. I have had shops offer
anywhere from 14 to 16 for poison scrolls depending on how many my chr
have sold/how many other scribes are selling.
I haven't really got an opinion one way or the other on this. You lose
one gold every time you fail fletching since most archery shops will pay
one gold for each feather.
Way back when, OSI came close to defining what an exploit of the economy
was. ~gaining skill or stats w/o consuming any raw materials. Using that
definition, fletching for stats becomes an exploit at 40 bowyering &
making lesser heals for intelligence even though you are 87 alchemy
would be kind of borderline.
Not my definitions understand, just my interpretations of what OSI said
a long time ago. ~No skill increase, never fail, stats increase => a
combination they don't seem to like. Supposed to be a little more like
carpentry, bowyering, blacksmithing, & tinkering are now.
No one will be banned if they have their master blacksmith make several
thousand daggers for strenght gain w/o having to lose anything from that
GM archer status, but I can almost hear the groans from the people at
OSI if you do it.
Jeff Gentry
: back in place.
Touche, but just the same, I'm too inconvenicned to teleport. Like
I said, I pick it up & return it (or sometimes keep it, heh) ...
not my fault the monster faollows me in.
: Glad to hear you can solo poisons without trapping ... but are you
: saying you can do it cheaper, easier, and safer without trapping?
: No of course not. My idea of fun is *NOT* to go to a dungeon, try to
: solo 5 poison elementals ... die on number 5, and then watch my corpse
: get looted by UsUkmYaSs.
There is a reason why I fight monsters only out of necessity. Because
outside of the big daddios, they *won't* kill me, I"m far too tough
for anything except the "big eles", drakes/dragons, & liche lords
(sometimes liches if they pull out one of those double FS, explosion
ebolt combos) to kill without getting real lucky. I like a bit
of a challenge in my play, not "ho hum, off to make more gold to
buy stuff that I don't need". Your idea of fun may not be that, but
how can it possibly be "Lets trap monsters and kill them at absolutely
zero risk to myself"?
Loki Dahlmarth, LS
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
I play in Wind a lot, and most of the people I play with can solo the
drake pit without bags. Yet somehow chaos seems to happen. A daemon
spawns behind the lines. Two drakes suddenly pop-in. Lag smacks you
upside your head. Suddenly the predictable monster-AI - is dropping
people left and right.
Then throw in some thieves, looters, and pks ... and things are
usually interesting.
It's mostly a profitable and very social thing - interrupted with
occasional periods of pure frenzy.
In other words it's enjoyable. If you were designing the game you
would want the average player to spend 90% of the time meeting
friends, making money, building their skills and defeating monsters
aprropriate to their level ... and 10% of the time getting their ass
kicked.
The Master
> I did go to the xSploitz site & sure enough, it did not exactly inspire
> me with confidence in OSI's ability to police their game.
The problem is not really about ability, it's about will. They do not have the
will to police the game. I suggested a daily limit on stat and skill gains
months ago, and there has been no reponse, no discussion whatsoever. This
absolutely WOULD end the problem of macroing stats and skills, by making it
irrelevant how you got the gains, since you simply could not gain more than the
daily limit each day. No response.
> I wonder how the jerks find the time to make sure they touch each & every one
> of us as often as they do, in their own special & pecular way?
Take your pick of examples. It took what, one, two guys to do the Oklahoma
City bombing? It doesn't take many sociopaths to wreck things in a major way.
> It is almost like they have an adjenda; "I plan on uttering 20 vulgar
> comments and 30 racial slurs to 15 different people. I will also tell at
> least five people that my murderer can kick his ass before I call it a
> night."
I'd tend to believe it is just so habitual with some that shear chance is bound
to have everyone witness such crap occasionally.
Roland Bruce Oakenshield
Damocles wrote in message <3624e18c...@news.slnt1.on.wave.home.com>...
>On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:45:01 GMT, cor...@wind.atlantic.com (Corwin of
>Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
>
>>>with 100 str, 100 dex, 25 int and even get to keep the feather.
>>
>>Does this also work around the skill delay? I mean it wouldn't be too
>>hard to collect enough bolts and feathers to last 2 hours if you could
>>actually raise your stats that fast ... and it would be legit ...
>>
>>I'm thinking people are exagerating here. Carpenters also used to be
>>able to raise skill without using material, but you sure couldn't max
>>out your stats that way.
>>
>>In the end you can get 100/100 of anything if you have a couple of
>>weeks.
>>
>>Corwin
>
>This is not a couple of weeks, it's a couple of hours. If you don't
>believe me, go to www.xSploitz.com .
>
Went to Xploitz...turns out the guy is a cub fan. NO WONDER! Cubs have been
losing so long that some peole who are thier fans HAVE to find ways to cheat
in order to feel like winners again. (Hey wait, IM a cub fan! but I dont
cheat, just stay a loveable loser)
Ah well, as long as theres a way around the system, people will find it.
All we can do is fight it. We have the satisfaction that our characters were
built through toil and hard work and a lot of long nights of cursing. Its a
game, love it or hate it, just like the Cubs.
--Way to go Sammy!
RJ Sierra UO: The Fair Roland [TGD] (Atlantic)
TEXAS! ICQ: 18429394 (Dont bug me)
"And when they've given you thier all, some stagger and
fall, after all its not easy, Banging your heart against some
mad buggers wall."--Floyd, The Wall
The Master
> Yes!!! I agree with The Master !!!
>
> Who woulda thunk.
The Master (seriously thinking about changing his handle), shakes his head,
slowly gets up off the floor, and says, "I ... uh ... thanks? Yeah. :-)"
The Master
> I hope I was clear on my position. If someone is using bags in such a
> way that it impedes traffic or endangers other players,. then for sure
> remove them ... but NOT when a poison elemental is breathing down
> their neck.
>
> If someone is using bags in a place they aren't even needed, then show
> them a better way ...
%$#@! it sure took someone long enough to think of that. Help them? <smacks
head> What will they think of next?
> Corwin (in favour of a bagless Wind)
Ah, so now we will call them Windbags?
Darren Mantle
<NOSPAM_masters@NOSPAM_uswest.net> wrote:
>Damocles wrote:
>
>> Come on, are you telling me you think it's okay to exploit a defect in
>> AI to essentially reduce high level monsters to money and item crops?
>> There was no risk in what he was doing. Poison Elementals are supposed
>> to be bad ass, they are supposed to be extremely hard to kill. Boxing
>> them makes them easier than a couple of mongbats.
>>
>> I didn't take his stupid boxes to kill him, I took them so he couldn't
>> keep cheating. He chose to come and attack me afterwards.
>
>OK, you were cheating. It's all a mater of what definitions you want to impose
>on others.
>
>
>> I'm sick to death of all the damned exploiters. I'm not going to mourn
>> if a few of their tricks result in their getting killed.
>
>
>And they will not be too torn up over your demise, either. I, for one, do not
>use forts unless someone I'm with does that (I do make use of terrain, though,
>so sue me), but if someone starts messing with those bags or boxes I consider
>that person a pk, and will kill on sight. Paralyze and let the monster do them
>while I put bags back in place, whatever.
>
>Cheating? If it were cheating it would be very easy to fix, just remove the
>"obstacle" flag from the item, so it does not block movement. OS put that in,
>and leaves it in, for a reason. And whether we are placing flourbags,
>sandbags, concrete blocks, Sunday NY Times, digging trenches, or telling the
>critters "step on a crack and break your mother's back!" it is valid to attempt
>to do a little military engineering. Screwing around with this is valid pk
>tactics. Killing the pk is valid self-defense.
>
>
>
So master you are an asshole who kills people whos views differ from
yours. A zealot if you will .You are knowingly exploiting a known bug
to advance your characters wealth without danger.people like you piss
me off. If you dont like it, it must go.(ie. thieves) If you do like
the exploit by all rights use it even if it does hurt the game.(And
you damn well know the flourbagging impacts monster loots.Was
macromining okay? Same idea gain with no investment. I have killed a
lot of sackers.On Napa the balron room is quite empty.Noone dares go
there to cheat as I will show up and put a stop to their shit.
Austin Napa
btw *PLONK*
Darren Mantle
<NOSPAM_masters@NOSPAM_uswest.net> wrote:
>Zurtran wrote:
>
>> Not to mention you all seem happy as clams to bitch about players
>> trapping monsters in houses.. this is the same thing ***EXCEPT*** YOU
>> CAN MOVE THE BOXES when they are not in a house.. otherwise you would be
>> bitching up a storm.
>
>Once again, the irrelevant equivalence. Trapping as a means of killing is not
>the same as capturing to keep what was not meant (as per statements of the
>designer) to be captured and kept.
>
>And while I cannot move the boxes in someone's house (because I'm not a
>cheater), I can remove the monsters. Did so yesterday, and probably will again
>today. Just call a GM.
>
>
Or that there is any right in disrupting his activity.
Your own words master. you disrupted the house owners activity.
Trapping as a means of killing *is* the same.rapping to kill was not
meant (as per statements of the designer) to be captured and Killed.
Austin Napa
The Master
> Of course, <some> people with high fame actually earned it, but hell,
> I see idiots sandbagging orc lords at the fort for chrissakes... you
> think that someone that needs to do that deserves the fame?
Hey, when you can out-slug earths, you don't sandbag them. If an orc lord can
crunch you with ease, you DO sandbag them, or fall back on bashing bunnies. No
one has any business telling anyone they have no right to take on the tougher
monsters. I personally enjoy the fact that a certain amount of military
engineering can be done in the game, and if it allows ImaNewbieToo to wax a
tough guy that could pulverize him with a sneeze, hey, that's ok. In effect,
it is what the game is all about, seeing what you can accomplish. People who
just can't live with that have a real serious personal problem to deal with.
If you only consider it valid to stand and out-slug the critters, maybe your
dad was too macho or something?
Yes, I'm trying to make Quaestor the winningest hand-to-hand thumper who ever
managed to roleplay, but that's a matter of personal and character style.
Nadare is intented for PvP, and is naturally a horse archer. Neither make use
of their own obstacle-building, unless the group he is with is doing that (if
you're with such a group and not working with them it is my experience that you
are working against them). Q is this way because he is too proud (and I am too
absent-minded to remember the get the stuff!), and Nadare because he will rely
on maneuver to keep a distance, even more that Q usess maneuver to keep
contact. Nadare won't even wear the best armor, opting not only for the
greater effective dex, but also because he needs to look a certain way, and
plate does not look right at all for him. (Roleplayers. Geez, what silly
persons!)
If, by building obstacles, anyone actually restricts access to an area that
another player genuinely needs, I feel that that sort of building should be
considered subject to being messed with, but only as much as it takes to get
past the obstruction (and if you cannot teleport, what are you doing in a
dungeon?).
And if you find players who cannot handle a herd of gargoyles and hellhounds
without a fort, and you can, why not help them? It's what I do, on those rare
occasions when I go exploring areas frequented by others and encounter such
people in need.
And who has not been the recipient of such help, themselves? Only the really
nasty people can play this game forever without being helped by someone.
Creative as I am, I have invented little in the way of methods in this game,
but simply learned it from others, selecting the collection of techniques which
seem most suitable for me.
One thing I learned early on is that being non-greedy and helpful, and going to
lengths to demonstrate your non-greedy helpful attitude will make you friends
in dungeons real quick, and you'll end up with plenty of money and kills in the
end, too. Not always, but often enough. In spite of frequenting some tough
places, I have encountered far more good people than bad, and enjoyed more
outtings than I hated. It is (I have said before) the repression that pk,
looters, etc, represent which is their biggest impact on the game.
And moving someone's sandbag (flourbag, box, etc) will make you enemies in just
as big a hurry, just like stealing, pking, blocking, etc., and rightly so.
> I love to run up and steal the bags.... heheh. Welcome to the real world.
Great fun, I'm sure. I love to kill thieves, and anyone who deliberately
endagers me. Welcome to the Real real world.
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
Protector of the Balrons?
Hey, what about those tailors who are out there buying cloth, sewing
skull caps, and selling to vendors? They're making money with no
risk!!! You better start a town thief and try to steal their bolts
from them before they make too much money!!! Maybe you can try to
block them from the NPCs!!!
Down with money!!!
Kill the tailors!!! Damn their summon gold button!!!
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
you really think OSI and the designers have a big problem with this?
The Master
> Get all the bugs closed, fine. I just want to point out that while
> everyone is standing around saying, "Those guys robbed the bank!" you
> are standing there going, "And their get away car doesn't have current
> registration!". There are bigger evils to be concerned with, like what
> this UOE/UOP users will be doing with their hacked chrs & UOE/UOP once
> they are ready to move out into the world.
This is always the problem with cheats. OS let's them keep the product of
their cheating, if they get away with it initially. That's why the landscape
is perceived (almost truthfully) to be paved in castles. It needs to be
determined who has done this and their accounts nuked. OS will not do it.
They won't even try. They don't even care. They make a fuss about stoping new
cheats, but will not do anything about the cheating that has occured.
The Master
> >%$#@! it sure took someone long enough to think of that. Help them? <smacks
> >head> What will they think of next?
>
> *chuckles*
>
> Have you noticed too, that now that even the good guys have built up
> some pvp capability ... their first idea in conflict is to just off
> the jerk?
I would be surprised if it wasn't always everyone's desire, but they knew better
from an early age. Once we begin to get the power, get tired of running and
hiding, and gain a little experience at PvP, that old kneejerk reaction begins to
take over instead of being repressed. A failure or two can quickly push one back
into the morase of repression, but once you finally succeed in dispensing some
justice, it is a feeling that seems to make it all seem worth while. For a
moment, at least. Then you go back to chopping, mining, get killed again or have
to run, and it definitely is not worth it anymore.
Quaestor has gotten to the point where low-end roadkill (wannabe pk) tend to run
at his first sign of attacking them. He can clean up an area that is lightly
poluted, just by such an appearance. For a moment. Worth it? Hard to say. In
reallity, only the hope that one day he will be able to take on the toughest
garbage and beat them keeps me going. He was created with such a purpose in
mind. But getting that strong and learning that much about PvP is an extremely
tedious job. I'm no longer sure it will seem worth it.
Our hopes and work to put together a serious organization to support such paladins
do not seem to have born much fruit. It seems that gang activity is truly the
purview of gangs.