OSI messing with Archery?
James DeMink
archery. After equiping a bow durring combat, it can take 15 seconds
before the first shot is fired. Also, the range of bow seems to be smaller
and I miss way too much for being GM Archery/ GM Tactics. I've tried
several different bows all in good shape. What gives? It's a totally
useless skill to me now.
Dalton Faxx, GL Shard
Rick Cortese
news:97295133...@axilla.wwnet.net...
Been like that for a while now, more then a few weeks anyway. You have to
add anatomy to get the full damage out of a bow now.
I think you still can build a fairly good archer, but you have to add
healing and anatomy to the archery and tactics such that you seldom have to
disarm the bow. Rate of fire is always to low with a low dex character like
a mage or magery sucks because you don't have EI or med.
I still have one character that is a decent archer. He is general purpose
rather then specialized. Something like GM archery, swords, tactics, 75
magery, 36 int so he can gate with a magical wizard hat, healing, anatomy,
resist. No parry, no EI, no med. He will lose virtually 100% of his PvP
fights against a specialized GM killer, but does better against certain
players that don't know his weaknesses and is a pretty good monster
harvester. I left GM wrestling on him, but admittedly it is about as useful
as tits on a bull. I should dump it into more healing and resist.
Wearing light armor with an exceptional or silver bow against undead he just
about can't be beat monster harvesting. He is pretty tough against the
biggies like dragons and deamons too.
Against anyone with even a slightly slower connection he can fight anyone
pretty much even if they aren't using poisoned weapons or spells.
If you have one smart partner, archery is pretty effective too. It requires
someone with enough brains to cast cure or bandage you to keep you firing.
Admittedly, smart partners are hard to find in this game lately.
Insane Ranter
> The "random" damage IMHO, is also silly. One shot will take a goat down
> one time and the next goat will take three arrows to kill it. (that is three
> hits, not arrows, because you may miss five times before you even get a hit).
a glancing hit does as much damage as a solid one?
Gunthor
skill I'd used for like the first 1.5 years in the game before trying
swords. I don't even THINK about using a crossbow or a heavy anymore...just
too much time involved. My archery skill hadn't gone up for AGES, but now
seems to go up .1 every, oh, 5-10 hours of playing time(and that's using the
bow during that time). And boy DOES that damage vary! Figure give me another
month of playing time(fiance permitting!) and maybe I'll be a GM Archer yet!
Can't kick the habit...couldn't imagine playing without scrounging for more
arrows every now and then...
Insane Ranter
Tried harder things yet?
Gunthor
Were you meaning trying harder things to quit than archery, or something
harder in the game?
The only habit I had to quit in R/L was my nailbiting. The joy of never
drinking/smoking/using illegal substances *smile*.
In the game, I'm going for the undaunting task of GMing tinkering...OH
JOY...*yawn*
Hazel
>On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:30:19 -0800, "Rick Cortese" <rico...@netmagic.net> wrote:
>
>
>The arm delay is still far too long, even after the <so-called> adjustment,
>and the fail rate for a gm archer is absolutely ridicules. (IMHO).
I couldn't agree more. My archer is GM Archery, GM Tactics, GM
Anatomy, around 85 healing, 85 Music, 70 Resist, 60 Provoke, 50 Hiding
and some minor magery for recall. I don't PvP often so this template
seems formiddable for what I do. But the miss rate is absolutely
ridiculous. It will sometimes take me upwards of 20 shots to bring
down an earth ele Anything more difficult will die from boredom or
suffocation from all of the bolts at its feet.
When I first started this char. she was GM fencing / Archery / Tactics
/ Anatomy etc., but I found archery much more useful before the OSI
"fixes" So I dropped fencing and am working on provocation. An archer
/ Bard just seems to fit for me. Plus its the way I deal with all of
those misses.
I keep my fingers crossed that OSI really will fix some of this, but
its wishful thinking. I'll cope for now.
+- Hazel, Spawn Master Archer -+
The Minoc Spawners
Baja
http://spawners.tripod.com
Quentin
arrows and room will take out almost any monster. I like PvM better with him
then I do with my Mage. He is not even at GM yet his skills are 98 Tact., 97
Fencing, 97 Archery, 100 Anatomy, 83.x Healing, 65 Resist and 75 parry. With
100 Str., 26 Int, 99 Dex. I can take out Titans Wyverns, Ophidian and
Terathan Matriarch, Avengers, Knight-Errants and the like. The only thing
that has given me problems was an Ice Fiend and it was not because he was
the problem but while I was running around shooting at him I also managed to
collect 3 Snow Elementals, 2 Ice elementals and a few Giant Ice Serpents. So
I finally had to bail out. I think its all in how you play especially if you
ever tried Archery before the update.
Its seposed to be a ranged attack so if you stand toe to toe with them of
course they are going to kick your arse. Actually I have even killed ore
elementals with his archery and yes they where they high level ones like
Valorite While my melee friend died 5 times and did next to no damage. Give
me the open desert or the woods and I'll take Archery any day.
Quentin of Atlantic
Eric A. Hall
> elementals with his archery and yes they where they high level ones like
> Valorite While my melee friend died 5 times and did next to no damage.
Give
> me the open desert or the woods and I'll take Archery any day.
A solo archer can kill a Valorite ele without any problem whatsoever.
Whenever I take my miner out with a pickaxe, I'll just recall as soon as one
spawns, log in with my archer, and 5 minutes later pick up the ore.
For PVM, nothing compares to archery for solo play (ie, without another
player or monster from taming/prov).
This has been a source of some great internal conflict for me lately. I want
to beef up my monkey so they can do better at PVP (going from 85
anat/heal/parry to GM in all three), but that would require dropping
archery, which would put a huge cramp in the PVM experience.
Simon Spencer Gaudin
<tfr...@c-altd.nospam.com> writes
>I have to agree with this post I still feel that my archer given enough
>arrows and room will take out almost any monster. I like PvM better with him
>then I do with my Mage. He is not even at GM yet his skills are 98 Tact., 97
>Fencing, 97 Archery, 100 Anatomy, 83.x Healing, 65 Resist and 75 parry. With
>100 Str., 26 Int, 99 Dex. I can take out Titans Wyverns, Ophidian and
>Terathan Matriarch, Avengers, Knight-Errants and the like. The only thing
>that has given me problems was an Ice Fiend and it was not because he was
>the problem but while I was running around shooting at him I also managed to
>collect 3 Snow Elementals, 2 Ice elementals and a few Giant Ice Serpents. So
>I finally had to bail out. I think its all in how you play especially if you
>ever tried Archery before the update.
>
>Its seposed to be a ranged attack so if you stand toe to toe with them of
>course they are going to kick your arse. Actually I have even killed ore
>elementals with his archery and yes they where they high level ones like
>Valorite While my melee friend died 5 times and did next to no damage. Give
>me the open desert or the woods and I'll take Archery any day.
>
>Quentin of Atlantic
My experience would Support Quentin given that you have enough open
country and enough arrows you can cope with most things using archery. I
do agree with Ice re cross bow they are not worth the effort being far
to slow. I find that it is easier to cope with more monsters at once
with archery than it is with either Magery or melee. I also find that
you can get away with no armour most of the time if you are prepared to
fight a running battle of manoeuvre. If you want to go toe to toe with a
monster get some plate on a shield and either a sword or mace. The
ultimate archer is of course the horse archer.
--
Simon Spencer Gaudin
Rick Cortese
news:7rmtvsoj9v9vokrbu...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:20:16 -0600, Ice <Ice@no_place.com> spouted:
>
> >On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:30:19 -0800, "Rick Cortese"
<rico...@netmagic.net> wrote:
> >
>
> >
> >The arm delay is still far too long, even after the <so-called>
adjustment,
> >and the fail rate for a gm archer is absolutely ridicules. (IMHO).
>
> I couldn't agree more. My archer is GM Archery, GM Tactics, GM
> Anatomy, around 85 healing, 85 Music, 70 Resist, 60 Provoke, 50 Hiding
> and some minor magery for recall. I don't PvP often so this template
> seems formiddable for what I do. But the miss rate is absolutely
> ridiculous. It will sometimes take me upwards of 20 shots to bring
> down an earth ele Anything more difficult will die from boredom or
> suffocation from all of the bolts at its feet.
This is agravated by the lumberjack nerf working in concert with the archery
nerf such that the sum of the effects is greater then the individual
effects.
OSI increased rate of fire while decreasing damage => you use up many more
arrows.
OSI decreased the amount of wood available in the game making arrows scarce.
So you spend more time getting arrows with less time monster available for
monster harvesting.
The easy monster loot also had a negative effect on the number of arrows
available. Early in the game bowyers would drain all the gold off of
provisioners and weapon smiths, then have to sell/make arrows to sell to
monster harvesters.
>
> When I first started this char. she was GM fencing / Archery / Tactics
> / Anatomy etc., but I found archery much more useful before the OSI
> "fixes" So I dropped fencing and am working on provocation. An archer
> / Bard just seems to fit for me. Plus its the way I deal with all of
> those misses.
It more or less just restricts what you hunt IMO. Orc mages are out since it
takes ~5 hits to kill one, they do damage faster then you heal with bandages
and cast poison which forces you to disarm to quaff potions.
But I still have good luck against any undead up to liches with a silver
bow/xbow. I would bet 9 times out of 10 I can kill them before their spells
force me to disarm. Mostly I just start with the bow equiped so they take a
shot when they come in range and move out of range after it hits. Soon as
they walk back in range, bow goes off again so they are at ~2/3rds health
and moving slow before they hit the character with their first spell. The
'new' fast walking liches are a real problem when you miss the first couple
of shots.
Against Orc mages, the [swords, tactics, anatomy, healing, resist] with a
katana works just fine. No parry and in my tests with the character a GM
katana kills faster then a GM halberd. Pretty much just sit there applying
bandages, quaffing regular cures when poisoned, and an occasional heal or
greater heal if the character takes back to back flame strikes.
The low hit point stuff like gazers is middle of the road. I can use the
range technique with an exceptional bow or katana with potions.
>
> I keep my fingers crossed that OSI really will fix some of this, but
> its wishful thinking. I'll cope for now.
I would settle for having trees give more wood or logs yielding more then 1
arrow. If a log gave ~10 shafts I think I wouldn't care about how many
misses I was taking. I can see not making boards give more then one arrow
since you can buy them, but logs are a different story.
But then the current situation may be to OSI's liking<scary thought!>. For
all we know they want to get rid of archers and keep arrows scarce to reduce
item count. It is hard to even take a boat out of Moonglow bay right now.
There are so many arrows and potions scattered around from people harvesting
water elements that you have to do some garbage collection to even move your
boat.
Eric A. Hall
> Against Orc mages, the [swords, tactics, anatomy, healing, resist] with a
> katana works just fine. No parry and in my tests with the character a GM
> katana kills faster then a GM halberd. Pretty much just sit there applying
> bandages, quaffing regular cures when poisoned, and an occasional heal or
> greater heal if the character takes back to back flame strikes.
Try that with an Ogre Lord or an Ophidian Knight-Errant and report back with
your findings. :p
Eric A. Hall
> My experience would Support Quentin given that you have enough open
> country and enough arrows you can cope with most things using archery. I
> do agree with Ice re cross bow they are not worth the effort being far
> to slow.
I use a heavy on my mage, but that's because he uses archery for the opening
shot in PVP. No mana cost, 50hp damage, etc. Great when it hits, sucks
bigtime when it misses. Regular bows on all three archers for general play.
> I find that it is easier to cope with more monsters at once
> with archery than it is with either Magery or melee.
There is a bug <feature> here that really pisses me off. When you have a lot
of different monsters on your tail, archery will change targets according to
the current closest aggressor. Say you're on the roof of the CoD temple
fighting a lich, if a shade downstairs decides to target you, archery tries
to shoot at it (through the roof, which fails los test) instead of shooting
at the lich. I have almost died from this a few times.
> I also find that you can get away with no armour most of the time if you
> are prepared to fight a running battle of manoeuvre. If you want to go toe
> to toe with a monster get some plate on a shield and either a sword or
mace.
> The ultimate archer is of course the horse archer.
Archer/Bard on Baja is almost complete, only missing a few points of resist
and provoke but otherwise done. I have been working the liches a lot lately,
and of course am getting hit hard with their souped-up melee. Armor of
choice up until now has been studded leather since there was no dex penalty,
but now I'm wearing the heavy set of chain/plate combo. The difference in
protection far outweighs any noticable loss of firing rate.
Anyway, I'd suggest heavy armor to any archer that has a weak connection or
who is fighting heavy hitters. It's not bad at all.
Quentin
10 months ago on TC when they had Atlantic posted to it for some housing
test at the time. I took my Archer out and used his "Eminently Accurate bow
of Vanquishing". I took the typical 7xGM mage you find on TC down to a
sliver of life with 2 or 3 shots. Unfortunatly I didn't have UOA running so
I was fumbling for a heal potion when his last ebolt finished me off. I wish
I still had that bow now but unfortunalty it whent the way of my Katana of
Vanq that I sold right before I quite a while back not thinking that I would
ever start back up again.
Quentin of Atlantic
"Eric A. Hall" <eh...@ehsco.com> wrote in message
news:8tmqf6$6...@dispatch.concentric.net...
Simon Spencer Gaudin
<eh...@ehsco.com> writes
>There is a bug <feature> here that really pisses me off. When you have a lot
>of different monsters on your tail, archery will change targets according to
>the current closest aggressor. Say you're on the roof of the CoD temple
>fighting a lich, if a shade downstairs decides to target you, archery tries
>to shoot at it (through the roof, which fails los test) instead of shooting
>at the lich. I have almost died from this a few times.
Its a feature, and you can get around it by going into war mode and
manually targeting the monster you are after. The only problem there is
if you are fighting something like my usual train of a troll, a spider,
a couple of headless a snake and a rat. Is you can get your shots
disrupted by the vermin when you are trying to kill say the troll or the
spider neither of which you want in melee range if you can. The feature
is useful for getting rid of the vermin when your main target is slowed
and wounded.
As for arrows to log ratio I think that each log ought to yield two
boards and each board one arrow. So you would need a little carpentry on
a bowyer to get the best results. I would also like to see GM arrows and
bolts. As at present an arrow or bolt is the same who ever made it.
An other idea would be to have more arrows survive use as in real life
most do. Most frequently the fletching needs redoing so having a few
arrows turn into shafts would be a good idea as long as you got
something like a 24/50/25 ratio intact, repairable, lost or broken.
Bows should also be repairable, just not very durable, in my experience.
--
Simon Spencer Gaudin
Hazel
>Archer/Bard on Baja is almost complete, only missing a few points of resist
>and provoke but otherwise done. I have been working the liches a lot lately,
>and of course am getting hit hard with their souped-up melee. Armor of
>choice up until now has been studded leather since there was no dex penalty,
>but now I'm wearing the heavy set of chain/plate combo. The difference in
>protection far outweighs any noticable loss of firing rate.
>
>Anyway, I'd suggest heavy armor to any archer that has a weak connection or
>who is fighting heavy hitters. It's not bad at all.
>
I agree. I have been experimenting with different armor combos looking
for max protection / least Dex hit. I usually wore leather for PvM as
you mention, but I have been doing alot of solo play and have been
trying to tackle some of the heavier hitters. Heavy archer treats me
the best @ 37 AR but I recently changed the chain tunic for female
plate and am up to 40 AR with 15 Dex hit... exactly the same as the
chain tunic. Someone has probably noticed this before, but it was a
revelation to me.
Insane Ranter
Harder monsters I meant...
Hazel
<rico...@netmagic.net> spouted:
>
>OSI increased rate of fire while decreasing damage => you use up many more
>arrows.
>
>OSI decreased the amount of wood available in the game making arrows scarce.
>
>So you spend more time getting arrows with less time monster available for
>monster harvesting.
>
That is true. For the last couple of months I have had arrows on my
vendors, and they almost never sell, but when they do people buy the
whole lot `1500 arrows. I assumed it would be a big seller since in
game I always hear people complain about the fletching boredom factor.
Lately I have been stockpiling shafts and huntng covetous just in case
the arrow selling becomes a big hit.
>
>I would settle for having trees give more wood or logs yielding more then 1
>arrow. If a log gave ~10 shafts I think I wouldn't care about how many
>misses I was taking. I can see not making boards give more then one arrow
>since you can buy them, but logs are a different story.
>
I have been hoping for that since I made my first bolt.
>But then the current situation may be to OSI's liking<scary thought!>. For
>all we know they want to get rid of archers and keep arrows scarce to reduce
>item count. It is hard to even take a boat out of Moonglow bay right now.
>There are so many arrows and potions scattered around from people harvesting
>water elements that you have to do some garbage collection to even move your
>boat.
>
I certanly hope not. The archer template is the one I find most
interesting (even tho I am messing with fishing / magery on another
character) but with all of the fixes I really think this template is
the bastard child of the dev team.
Eric A. Hall
> I certanly hope not. The archer template is the one I find most
> interesting (even tho I am messing with fishing / magery on another
> character) but with all of the fixes I really think this template is
> the bastard child of the dev team.
Heheh. Try cartography if you want to see how busted a skill can be.
Archery is pretty good. Great for PVM, weak for PVP. Even for PVP it is
pretty good in some cases. I fought a typical war hammer macer with my
archer and did good with it, I could take four or five steps and fire while
he couldn't keep close enough to me to swing, and he didn't have a shield
equipped so every hit counted. When he did manage to hit me it hurt bad of
course, but it wasn't anything to stay away from him and keep shooting. If
they'd bump up the rate of fire I might even be able kill one of them; he
healed between shots too fast for it to really matter.
Simon Spencer Gaudin
<che...@parasitesystm.org> writes
Nice idea but have you any idea how silly female plate looks on a man.
Come of it its silly enough on a woman.
The whole thing reminds me of something I read in GURPS long ago which
had a rule for protective nudity in heroic fantasy where the less
clothing one wore the better ones actual armour was. Worked for A Conan,
Red Sonia type game apparently.
--
Simon Spencer Gaudin
gil
Simon Spencer Gaudin wrote:
> Nice idea but have you any idea how silly female plate looks on a man.
> Come of it its silly enough on a woman.
Males used to be able to wear female plate, they changed that in the
first year. Yes, it did look funny, but as someone (maybe Rick) said
back then (not exact quote) "if OSI made it so that a bright fuzzy pink
outfit gave the best protection, the dewds would wear it".
> The whole thing reminds me of something I read in GURPS long ago which
> had a rule for protective nudity in heroic fantasy where the less
> clothing one wore the better ones actual armour was. Worked for A Conan,
> Red Sonia type game apparently.
ICE's (not our Ice, but Iron Crown Enterprises IIRC) Arms Law combat
system had it that heavy armor like plate meant you got hit a lot,
because it was hard to dodge blows, but each hit did little damage.
Light/no armor meant you got hit less, because it was easier to dodge
blows, but when you did get hit it really hurt. It was an interesting
system.
gil
Gunthor
me lately. Otherwise I'd go out and fight cycolps and stone gargoyles here
and there and gains had slowed waay down then also. I'm being patient and
biding my time..."it will be mine....yes, it will be mine..." lol
Little WhiteDove
|Simon Spencer Gaudin wrote:
|
|> Nice idea but have you any idea how silly female plate looks on a man.
|> Come of it its silly enough on a woman.
|
|Males used to be able to wear female plate, they changed that in the
|first year. Yes, it did look funny, but as someone (maybe Rick) said
|back then (not exact quote) "if OSI made it so that a bright fuzzy pink
|outfit gave the best protection, the dewds would wear it".
Men can still wear female plate if they polymorph into a woman first.
It will stay on them when they return to their true form. Sometimes the
LFE Order guild men do this in conjunction with their RP macros ("Have
at thee! Bow to the true king -- LORD BRITISH THY MASTER!") to really
get the Chaos folks in a fury :)
-Little WhiteDove
Badb Catha, Lia Fail Empire
Atlantic
Rick Cortese
news:011120000933081957%dovey_a...@yahoo.com...
Actually they keep the armor on until they logout and login.Errr, I don't
know this personally, I heard it somewhere, yeah that's the ticket.<grin>
IMO: There are fewer things funnier in the game then a male character
wearing a female studded armor.
Kiril Threndor
>I kept making the same stupid mistake with him. I would ~"Might as well do
>an escort before I logout", do an escort and log out immediately. Then next
>time I login, ~2 secs later "Meditation is now 50.1, your intelligence is
>now 78, your str is now 60". AARRRHH! You'd think I would have learned after
>the first dozen times it happened.
At the moment I am putting hiding on my SP mage after deciding to drop
taming/lore. I did have 100/100/25 but now I am something like 70/80/75.
Very good for defeating Mb but not so hot otherwise. I keep meaning to
hit a tree or eval int when I log in but I keep forgetting and just hit
the hide macro. I am 92 hiding now so i may as well wait the few days
until GM then lock it and work on the stats.
I dunno how well it would work but for my mages 7th skill, I am toying
with the idea of taking alchemy once 3x reg prices have gone. I could
then take poisoning on my warrior and one could supply the other.
--
________________________________________________
Kiril Threndor
DTM SP
Kiril Threndor
>nerf such that the sum of the effects is greater then the individual
>effects.
My char on SP is Axer/Archer. While both still do decent damage, I can't
hit anything!
If I go kill a monster, it ends up with all my arrows at its feet or if
I equip the axe, he has more chance of dying from the flu by the draft
caused from my axe whooshing straight past him every damn swing!
I am thinking of changing skills but I won't do it until RoT goes, the
thought of all that time to GM the skills again makes me feel physically
sick.
I will drop archery and lumberjacking for parry and either magery or
poisoning. Not sure whether to keep swords or swap for fencing.
Rick Cortese
news:ca$XRVAQv...@baywatch.demon.co.uk...
I dropped archery on both my son's and my characters there. Main reason was
because they were already pitifully weak from doing more then PvP in their
skill set, but what really did them in was the reduced Orc camp spawn on Ice
Isle. I think I still have ~1000 arrows in bank boxes, but the concept of
building archery on characters that didn't have room to add lumberjacking
wasn't attractive.
Ended up just GMing my sons character in magery, EI, almost there in med.
Oh, and a dragon of course. Can't believe there are so many people that
don't like ROT.
Haven't quite got the lockpicker to GM magery. EI is really low, maybe 50.
About an hour away from GMing magery on the character if I spend another
power hour on the shard. I kind of like his skill set anyway, ~expert
fencing, tactics, healing, so he can handle low level spawn like Orcs and
mongbats without having to resort to flame strikes. His str got ruined by
building magery, down to 60 or so. Don't know when I will find the 10 hours
I will need to get him back to 70s.