Is tinkering FUBAR?
Eric A. Hall
I've been working on my tinker character a lot lately, and I'm now of
the strong opinion that this skill is just a wreck. Is it beyond repair?
Does anybody know if OSI is looking to even work on it?
Some of the problems with it:
* It's just buggy. If you break a tinker toolkit, trying to use
another toolkit results in "you already have a tinkering menu."
You have to use another tool to clear out the client before
you can tinker any more.
* No maker's mark. Okay, so maybe there's no need for a mark on
shovels and picks, but it sure would be nice to have marks on
jewelry, craftable items (candelabras, globes, etc).
* Why are shovels and picks tinkering items? They should be
smithing items... You'd need a forge to make them.
* Anybody looked at a shovel? It's got more wood than metal, but
you only use metal to make it. The globes are ALL wood as far
as I can tell, but do they use any? Nope, just ingots.
* Diamonds sells for 120gp, but a diamond ring sells for 15,
the same as an amber ring. That's just silly.
* Why can't I make flatware and jewelry out of those neat
colored ingots? Surely the good Lord British would prefer to
have flatware of Valorite...? I know I would.
* The highest skill-level craftable items are non-sellable at
all to NPCs. Candleabras, globes, spyglasses, scales (they
are cool!), forks/plates, etc., none of them can be sold.
This really hurts the skill time!
* The highest skill requirement is in the 60s. There's no push
after the craftables, but since they can't be sold it's too
much of a bother to keep making them just so you can throw
them away. We need harder items to make, and we need to be
rewarded for making them.
* The tabbed menu is pretty slick, and is much easier to use
than the forever-scroll version found on the other skills.
However, all items appear at all times, meaning you have no
idea if you can make something or not. Got 30 skill and
want to make a spyglass? You're not told that you can't.
* Locking chests are the big draw right? Well guess what. I
built a 70s-grade lockpicker from zero IN ONE DAY! He can
pick GM locking chests IN ONE DAY. WHAT IS THIS?!?!
* Speaking of which, lockpicks are about the only way to make
any money from this skill if you can stand to sell 1000s of
them. But why would I want to sell lockpicks when my boxes
can be broken into by any Mo with a day to spend macroing?
* That leaves boom-boom boxes. Okay so we get murder counts
from the one thing that has some value in it. Yeah, great.
What's the deal? Is this skill going to be cleaned up? Sunsword?
JMORALES3
You forgot to mention here that the that the famous tinker explosion trap is
FAR for being as deadly as many people think. The only really way you can get
killed by a GM made tinker trap is by being whether stupid or being too weak.
The ONLY way a tinker trap will kill ANYONE with more than 70 hps, which I'd
say is the overall average (perhaps higher than that) number of hps for all
non-newvbie characters in the game, is if the "victim" stands right next to the
trap. If the victim opens the trap while standing at least one tile away It
will only make a 60-70 hp damage for the most. Even with 0 armor, and even if
the trap was made by a GM tinker with a greater explosion potion, the trap
never seems to do more than 70 hps damage. I've tried this at least 3 times
with my master tinker, and twice with two GM tinkers. Never did the traps did
more than 65 hps damage.
So as far as tinker trap goes, they are only useful to kill the weak or the
idiot (and of course the ingnorant too).
So this kinda makes me wonder, why should anyone really attemp to be a GM
tinker? Until recently I thought the tinker traps and lockable chests were the
greatest strongholds of the skill. But like someone had mentioned already any
apprentice mage can open GM made locks with a simple 3rd circle spell, and like
I've just explained tinker traps are far from being deadly.
GM made tinker tools also do not have any longlasting qualities or anything of
the sort. Shovels for example will always give you 51 ore. No matter if the
shovel was made by a GM tinker or bought from an NPC.
So besides of allowing you to make some tools and "cool" gadgets (which most of
them are value-less), there's nothing good about being a tinker, much less a GM
tinker. I also think that marker's mark would be totally pointless here because
like I've said GM made tools don't really have any "special" qualities.
>What's the deal? Is this skill going to be cleaned up? Sunsword?
Yes Sunsword....any hope for all the GM and Master tinkers out there that we
had not wasted skill points in a skill that could be just as "useful" with only
60 skill points?
- Joram Lionheart <Chesapeake>
JMORALES3
I said 'that the' twice here.....errr. I better get some get some sleep soon.
*smiles*
- Joram Lionheart <Chesapeake>
Ps. My apologies for my grammatical mistakes on this post.....I reall cannot
concentrate well when I'm tired. (This is why probably every morning when I
wake up to check the NG I find some new anti-PK thread posted by me that I was
not aware I posted in the first place.... : )
Sarenthalanos Dragon
Since I tried to tinker for the first time in about 8 months (with a char
that had 50 tinker and could make shovels with little problem), I noticed
something was really wrong. I was whiffing a lot at making SHOVELS (ouch)
and other stuff. And not to mention a lot of the stuff is indeed worthless
to sell and pretty much useless as a whole.
So why is it so hard to make and not profitable now?
Another thing that doesn't make sense....
Tailoring has gone to hell as well. <5gp thread are gone. Now they are
21gp, and bolts of cloth are about 120 gp. Well, that reduces *some* of the
rich tailors, but it kind of screws the newbie fighter who goes to buy cloth
for making bandages. (not to mention still 70 something gp for a bale of
wool - it costs more to buy raw materials and make your own cloth if you try
and make cloth out of store-bought wool).
Basically, I know what they are doing.
They are trying to get rid of the of town mules (those who can stay in town
and make a fortune for their other chars), but it hurts the newbies as well
(and even more). It's going to be funny, the companion program.
----------
Newbie: Wow, everything is so expensive. I can't afford to buy anything.
Companion: Well, back in the old days...we could actually buy stuff as a
newbie, and not rely on the grace of some established player to help us out.
----------
If you take a look at it, 100 gp is not much, and just got to be worth a lot
less.
Prices are going up, and that only helps those with high skill. But it
hurts the newbies more. Things are requiring more time and money to
increase, and yet again it just hurts the newer people. The older ones with
the skill cappes chars couldn't care less - they are already established in
the realm. Is the companion program some sick excuse to make up for the
fact that the newbies are going to be pretty well screwed when it comes to
trying to make money?
++++++++++++++++++++
And honestly, why bother with the newbie quests BS (no offense to any
newbies...but....)?
Does OSI really expect THAT many more new accounts?
The older people are leaving, because promised game additions are getting
scrapped, and they lose vision of the glitz and glamour of the game. The
newbie quest system doesn't help them, and frankly is a waste considering
what they(OSI) *could* be doing. People have been sucessfully starting and
playing the game for so long, so what makes the new people any different?
Just put in Necromancy and the other promised goodies, or are they just like
little pieces of meat held in front of our noses - but we are not allowed to
eat - to keep us playing the game, salivating for what's to come?
No offense to anyone, but I am just a hard critic.
Sarenthalanos Dragon -=(UDIC)=-
Daily Words of Wisdom:
"Why is that toy on your head?" [deely-boppers]
"Because if I wear it anywhere else, it chafes."
JMORALES3
>I have to agree.
>Since I tried to tinker for the first time in about 8 months (with a char
>that had 50 tinker and could make shovels with little problem), I noticed
>something was really wrong. I was whiffing a lot at making SHOVELS (ouch)
>and other stuff. And not to mention a lot of the stuff is indeed worthless
>to sell and pretty much useless as a whole.
>So why is it so hard to make and not profitable now?
>Another thing that doesn't make
As far as I know tinkering had never been considered a very profitable skill.
Not even when you didn't lose resources when failed. Rather than make it
unprofitable, this new change has only made it more difficult to raise and not
worthwhile. Other than miners, smiths, and carpenters, you don't see much
players trying to raise their tinkering.
- Joram Lionheart <Chesapeake>
Whisper
<snip>
>Another thing that doesn't make sense....
>
>Tailoring has gone to hell as well. <5gp thread are gone. Now they are
>21gp, and bolts of cloth are about 120 gp. Well, that reduces *some* of
the
>rich tailors, but it kind of screws the newbie fighter who goes to buy
cloth
>for making bandages. (not to mention still 70 something gp for a bale of
>wool - it costs more to buy raw materials and make your own cloth if you
try
>and make cloth out of store-bought wool).
<snip>
That is the thing right there that cracks me up. OSI thinks they are so
damned smart and fixing the rich tailors but all they are doing is screwing
the newbie tailor wanna be's. Now don't get me wrong. Alot of people do just
tailor for the money, or they once did but may not anymore, but there are
some of us that tailor because it's another career to try and master. I
think there will be some newbies that will want to do this as well. Not
every newbie will know to get 50 skill in tailoring either. I see so many
new people that keep 3 skills and average them out around 30. In the case of
the tailor if they start that low they basically are forced to sew cloth for
a while until they can start sewing leather. With 100 starting gold they
can't even afford to buy the 5 thread required to make a bolt of cloth. Now
if they take the few yards of cloth they start with and sew a few skull caps
they can finally afford the thread. At 30-35 skill though chances are they
will fail some when making fancy shirts. They *might* make 5 shirts and sell
them at 24-28 each which is *just* enough to buy 5 more thread or a bolt of
cloth. Does OSI think anyone just starting is going to want to continue down
this path once they see how pathetic the payoff is?
This is just my theories on the matter since I haven't actually started a
new character to see for myself how it works. Maybe I'll do just that once
I'm done with the NG.
Have fun folks!
Whisper
Baja
Lord Queso
>and make a fortune for their other chars),
Well, gee, what did you expect out of this game....that you could just be a
baker if you wanted? HELLL NO! You have to go out and fight!
Whisper
34 just to check how hard it would be to start over with the latest changes.
I played for a few hours and got tailoring up to 42 before I quit that
character. Before I logged out I had banked 900 gold. Not a stunning amount
to have banked but not nearly as horrible as I thought it would be. If there
had been more thread around I know I could have done much better than I had
but I had to wait for the tailor shops to respawn and that slowed me down
some.
All in all I think a newbie could figure out how to build tailoring skill
and make money while doing it. Without the experience I have I don't know if
I would have developed and used the strategies I did or been able to make a
profit so quickly. Even if a newbie has to resort to selling backpacks to
buy thread if they come up short at first they should eventually learn what
works and get thier skill up high enough so that they can switch to leather
and start making real money with no problem.
Whisper
Baja
Xigam
>> * That leaves boom-boom boxes. Okay so we get murder counts
>> from the one thing that has some value in it. Yeah, great.
>>
>
>You forgot to mention here that the that the famous tinker explosion trap is
>FAR for being as deadly as many people think. The only really way you can get
>killed by a GM made tinker trap is by being whether stupid or being too weak.
>The ONLY way a tinker trap will kill ANYONE with more than 70 hps, which I'd
>say is the overall average (perhaps higher than that) number of hps for all
You are on Chessy? My Guildmate can make tinker boxes that can kill a
char with over 100 hp's, full armor or not. This is if you open it
directly (off the ground), or in your pack..
We were doing some testing with the MC system, and my 98 str char died
every time opening the box. These were made with either lesser
explosions or greater ones, it doesn't matter. After drinking a str
potion, and healing,, I still died..
I think you are wrong about the trapped chests..
- Xigam
JMORALES3
>You are on Chessy? My Guildmate can make tinker boxes that can kill a
>char with over 100 hp's, full armor or not. This is if you open it
>directly (off the ground), or in your pack..
>
>We were doing some testing with the MC system, and my 98 str char died
>every time opening the box. These were made with either lesser
>explosions or greater ones, it doesn't matter. After drinking a str
>potion, and healing,, I still died..
>
>I think you are wrong about the trapped chests..
>
>- Xigam
OH why of course you right....but have you tried opening the trapped chests a
tile away instead of being right next to it? If you open the trap standing
right in front of it, of course It'll kill you. Sometimes It does up to 120hps
damage (or so I've been told). But if you are not standing right next to the
trap, you'll only get a 60-70 hps damage when you set the trap off.
How do I know this? Well like I said I've tested on myself, at least 5 times (3
traps made by my Master tinker, the other 2 made by other GM tinkers). The max
damage taken by my character was I think 67 hps.
Also the AR of the victim and the potency of the potions used to make the traps
are totally irrelevant. All that matters is the skill of the tinker.
Another thing that I've been told is that traps can be set off by distance with
the teleq spell, w/out even have to be anywhere near the trap. But I have not
tried this myself so I wouldn't know if It's true.
- Joram Lionheart <Chesapeake>
Eric A. Hall
> You are on Chessy? My Guildmate can make tinker boxes that can kill a
> char with over 100 hp's, full armor or not. This is if you open it
> directly (off the ground), or in your pack..
Use telekinesis from a few tiles away. Only an idiot or newbie opens it
right at their feet.
Gregory A Greenman
jmor...@aol.com says...
> >
> Another thing that I've been told is that traps can be set off by distance with
> the teleq spell, w/out even have to be anywhere near the trap. But I have not
> tried this myself so I wouldn't know if It's true.
I use telekinesis on chests that may be trapped all the time. As
long as you are not too close to the chest, you disarm it without
taking any damage.
Greg
aka Ursa
aka Lucifer
aka Rehsif
----
greg -at- spencersoft -dot- com
Brandy
JMORALES3 <jmor...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990903012456...@ng-fs1.aol.com...
<snip>
> So this kinda makes me wonder, why should anyone really attemp to be a GM
> tinker? Until recently I thought the tinker traps and lockable chests were
the
> greatest strongholds of the skill. But like someone had mentioned already
any
> apprentice mage can open GM made locks with a simple 3rd circle spell, and
like
> I've just explained tinker traps are far from being deadly.
>
Its been a while since I tested it but it used to be that you had to have
magery equal to or greater than the tinkers skill that made the box to magic
unlock it. Course lockpicking of 76 is never fail on a GM tinker box which
I always thought was stupid. It should work the same as magery.
It is possible for explosion traps to kill a 100 str character in full armor
but the damage rate does vary. The neat thing you can do now is make 5th
level poison traps which have a better chance of killing a high str
character.
Brandy (WE, LS)
Otara
Otara
JMORALES3
>I always thought was stupid. It should work the same as magery.
No...It shouldn't work for magery at all. Why should one skill, that is already
way to popular in the game, be able to practically make another skill useless?
By making mages being able to open the tinker's lockable boxes OSI is just
giving people another good reason to use magery. Lockpickin? Nah.....Use magery
is better. And I dunno if the skill of the mage has to be greater than the
tinker to open the box (doesn't say any of this in startics) but I doubt it.
And even if that's true...how hard is it to cast a 3rd circle spell? Now
compare that to how hard it is to make a GM tinker.
>It is possible for explosion traps to kill a 100 str character in full armor
>but the damage rate does vary.
Again...magery defeat the purpose of traps here. Telekinesis can set of traps
by distance.
>The neat thing you can do now is make 5th
>level poison traps which have a better chance of killing a high str
>character.
If you die by poison (even if It's deadly poison) then I gotta say your not
very smart.....It's fairly easy to cure 5th level poisons. With a single
greater cure potion, a healing skill higher than 60, or with MAGERY simply
casting cure.
Now I'm not saying that all those spells should be nerfed, but instead they
should increase the power of the traps (in a certain way that is not
exploitable) and the difficulty to open locks (at least those made by high
level tinkers).
- Joram Lionheart <Chesapeake>
gil
> >The neat thing you can do now is make 5th
> >level poison traps which have a better chance of killing a high str
> >character.
>
> If you die by poison (even if It's deadly poison) then I gotta say your not
> very smart.....It's fairly easy to cure 5th level poisons. With a single
> greater cure potion, a healing skill higher than 60, or with MAGERY simply
> casting cure.
Brandy is talking about the poison beyond deadly. A friend
poison-trapped a box and then set it off to test it. He blew through a
dozen or so gcures and still died. He later tried it with my gm mage
casting cure on him, and I couldn't cure him (gm in all the mage skills,
100 int, etc.). My mage can cure deadly poison with one cure spell.
Trapped chest poison is the same poison that poison ele's have.
rend
gil'lomion LS
fazza...@my-deja.com
>>The neat thing you can do now is make 5th level poison traps which
>>have a better chance of killing a high str character.
>If you die by poison (even if It's deadly poison) then I gotta say
>your not very smart.....It's fairly easy to cure 5th level poisons.
>With a single greater cure potion, a healing skill higher than 60, or
>with MAGERY simply casting cure.
Ummmm I don't think so ..... as far as I know 5th level poison is
incurable .....certainly gcures won't cure it it, dunno about a gm mage
cure though ....
Cheers,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Richard Cortese
> >Course lockpicking of 76 is never fail on a GM tinker box which
> >I always thought was stupid. It should work the same as magery.
>
> No...It shouldn't work for magery at all. Why should one skill, that is
already
> way to popular in the game, be able to practically make another skill
useless?
> By making mages being able to open the tinker's lockable boxes OSI is just
> giving people another good reason to use magery. Lockpickin? Nah.....Use
magery
> is better. And I dunno if the skill of the mage has to be greater than the
> tinker to open the box (doesn't say any of this in startics) but I doubt
it.
> And even if that's true...how hard is it to cast a 3rd circle spell? Now
> compare that to how hard it is to make a GM tinker.
were bugs in just about every profession. 75 magery was ~85 gold for a
scroll and 90 was just a page 8 scroll, GM carpentry was one log, 40
bowyering was 1 shaft and 100 feathers, GM tailor was something like 8
pieces of cloth and 125 items in your pack.
Closed all the holes now, but the impact on the skill pool and having that
many people around that did cheat skill levels up really hurts the game IMO.
>
>
> >It is possible for explosion traps to kill a 100 str character in full
armor
> >but the damage rate does vary.
>
> Again...magery defeat the purpose of traps here. Telekinesis can set of
traps
> by distance.
Tinker traps were purportedly put into the game to slow down theives. As we
all know, "Here newbie, I have a chest full of armor for you" kind of
perverted the intent. They were never meant as a way to PK, they just became
that.
>
> >The neat thing you can do now is make 5th
> >level poison traps which have a better chance of killing a high str
> >character.
>
> If you die by poison (even if It's deadly poison) then I gotta say your
not
> very smart.....It's fairly easy to cure 5th level poisons. With a single
> greater cure potion, a healing skill higher than 60, or with MAGERY simply
> casting cure.
I don't think so. I posted before about Potion Boy on Baja. GM tinker, GM
magery, GM Alchemist. As soon as poison traps were implemented he killed
himself testing a trap and told me there was nothing he could do to save
himself.
I have had the same experience with chests made at ~95 tinkering with
greater poisons. I tried about 5 chests and wasn't able to save myself once.
Adam Burr
>
>Ummmm I don't think so ..... as far as I know 5th level poison is
>incurable .....certainly gcures won't cure it it, dunno about a gm mage
>cure though ....
>
journal getting posted here months ago of someone meleeing a Poison Ele
with a backup of 4 or 5 mages doing nothing but healing and curing and
some other fighters helping... the one the Poison locked onto actually
lived. That one time. The trouble is, without GCures and that many
mages/healers working on you, chances are you're dead before the slim
chance comes through for you. But there _is_ a very slim chance.
Madman Across the Water
--
-==UDIC==- Goldenflame Dragon UO: The Magister, Chesapeake
: For the record, you don't need a third party program to be stupid :
: in UO, but they will help you be stupid more efficiently. ... I like to :
: think that I don't need a program to be stupid. -- Elinarson of Occlo :
JMORALES3
>greater poisons. I tried about 5 chests and wasn't able to save myself once.
How long did it take you to die with that trap?
- Joram Lionheart <Chesapeake>
Richard Cortese
mana, using up a bunch of GC and GH potions, then running to the bank to see
if I had any more, then running someplace quiet to die so I wouldn't get
looted. I would guess 30 seconds.
gil
to run its course? ie - only time, not cures, can cure it, you just
have to keep healing until it does?
rend
gil'lomion LS
Lars Friedrich
> >They are trying to get rid of the of town mules (those who can stay in
town
> >and make a fortune for their other chars),
> Well, gee, what did you expect out of this game....that you could just be
a
> baker if you wanted? HELLL NO! You have to go out and fight!
Let's see...
100gp starting gold..
that equals how many sacks of flour?
that equals how many doughs?
with 50 skill that equals how many breads?
You pick up a backpack - you sell it at the provisioner
This equals how many sacks of flour?
...
Ohh..
You want to be a newbie baker AND a castle owner..sorry...not possible for
bakers, only for tailors..ohh..doh..
not anymore..
I guess I'm a weird guy, because somehow this makes sense for me...
Brandy
magic unlock on the boxes at various stages. Came to find out that you
needed magery greater than or equal to the tinkers skill to unlock them. I
had a character with high 90s in magery at that time and as soon as the
tinker's skill surpassed his magery skill he could no longer magic unlock.
When my tinker GMed I handed a locked box to a GM mage friend and asked him
to magic unlock it which he did with ease. This was months ago so things
may have changed but my now GM mage can magic unlock any player made box out
there still.
When I said lockpicking should work like magery does, what I meant was that
lockpicking skill should have to be equal or greater than tinkering skill to
open the box NOT that being able to open a box with magery was a good thing.
Level 5 poison is curable but generally takes several attempts by a GM mage
to cure. If you are alone and are level 5 poisoned you usually die.
Brandy (WE, LS)
JMORALES3 <jmor...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990903233953...@ng-fe1.aol.com...
> >Course lockpicking of 76 is never fail on a GM tinker box which
> >I always thought was stupid. It should work the same as magery.
>
> No...It shouldn't work for magery at all. Why should one skill, that is
already
> way to popular in the game, be able to practically make another skill
useless?
> By making mages being able to open the tinker's lockable boxes OSI is just
> giving people another good reason to use magery. Lockpickin? Nah.....Use
magery
> is better. And I dunno if the skill of the mage has to be greater than the
> tinker to open the box (doesn't say any of this in startics) but I doubt
it.
> And even if that's true...how hard is it to cast a 3rd circle spell? Now
> compare that to how hard it is to make a GM tinker.
>
>
> >It is possible for explosion traps to kill a 100 str character in full
armor
> >but the damage rate does vary.
>
> Again...magery defeat the purpose of traps here. Telekinesis can set of
traps
> by distance.
>
> >The neat thing you can do now is make 5th
> >level poison traps which have a better chance of killing a high str
> >character.
>
> If you die by poison (even if It's deadly poison) then I gotta say your
not
> very smart.....It's fairly easy to cure 5th level poisons. With a single
> greater cure potion, a healing skill higher than 60, or with MAGERY simply
> casting cure.
>
JMORALES3
>lockpicking skill should have to be equal or greater than tinkering skill to
>open the box NOT that being able to open a box with magery was a good thing.
Agreed. Lets give lockpicking a chance here. Mages shouldn't be able to do
everything just by using magery.
>Level 5 poison is curable but generally takes several attempts by a GM mage
>to cure. If you are alone and are level 5 poisoned you usually die.
>
The problem with Poison traps here is that they really don't help as a way to
"secure" containers. They rather are a way to get someone off your back. Lets
say you decide to protect your chests in you house with poison traps. Once
poisoned the looter still have plenty of time to finish looting a good portion
if not everything and, AND recall somewhere safer to die, in order to lose
nothing but some fame.
In the other hand an explosion trap would work instantly, right on the spot.
Not giving the looter a chance to do anything else.
Unfortunately explosion traps are not all that deadly. And either way, I
believe telekinesis work the same way as for explosion traps. So the spell make
any tinker traps useless.
- Joram Lionheart <Chesapeake>
JMORALES3
>believe telekinesis work the same way as for explosion traps.
I meant poison traps here...sorry
Brandy
I was poisoned or I wouldn't have had time. Ah the pleasures of going on a
level 3 treasure hunt when the group in that location before you leaves
their level 5 monsters roaming around.
My GM mage has cured it a couple times after several attempts.
Brandy (WE, LS)
gil <g...@uswest.net> wrote in message news:37D18546...@uswest.net...
Kim Rivers
Maybe I'm just not hip to the tailor scene, but whenever I need cloth,
I just shear some sheep. I've never had to buy thread or yarn.
And at times I have done the make-fancy-shirt/sell-fancy-shirt thing.
As a newbie.
So why are the higher prices an automatic issue? Do people dislike shearing
sheep? Do they feel it's too hard to find them?
kinda konfused,
kim