SP changes...
Adam Wood
help make Siege a bit more accessible.
The Rate over Time (RoT) system will be removed
from the shard entirely. Skill gains will function as on regular shards.
The maintenance costs for player vendors will
no longer be three times that of a regular shard.
Shopkeepers will no longer charge three times
the regular shard price for reagents.
Upon release of the faction system, guards will
cease to exist in non-faction towns.
The hero/evil system will be removed.
Characters currently active in this system will be cleared of hero/evil
status.
good move?
--
Adam Wood -- Repeat Offender
< Here We Go Again >
Erica
Siege will just become another regular shard. Only there will be no
difference in Trammel and Felucca. PKs can kick your tail on both sides. And
what does THAT mean? DEWD TOWN!
Erica
--
The internet.
It's the socialization key of the new generation.
Adam Wood wrote in message <39E64301...@HUB.ofthe.NET>...
Rick Cortese
news:39E64301...@HUB.ofthe.NET...
> Gameplay aspects of Siege Perilous will be revised or updated to provide
> help make Siege a bit more accessible.
>
> The Rate over Time (RoT) system will be removed
> from the shard entirely. Skill gains will function as on regular shards.
Main things ROT really effected was combat and thief skills. Wasn't like a
lot of people were using forensic evaluation anyway.
So this just changes it from being a newbie that people rocked for a month
to being a newbie that people rock for a week. That is still going to be too
long for some folks.
>
> The maintenance costs for player vendors will
> no longer be three times that of a regular shard.
Only a few player run vendors remain on the shard. I doubt if this will make
a difference to them.
> Shopkeepers will no longer charge three times
> the regular shard price for reagents.
Makes getting a combat mage a little easier. Lowers the roof for killing
monsters at a profit, but IMO the shard isn't about monster harvesting.
> Upon release of the faction system, guards will
> cease to exist in non-faction towns.
Great. I already hang out in Serpent's Hold where I am the only thing the
guards have killed for the last year. Looks like the people training black
wisp and silver serpents to town will have a field day looting.
> The hero/evil system will be removed.
> Characters currently active in this system will be cleared of hero/evil
> status.
About the same numbers as the people that run the vendors.
>
> good move?
Depends on what they are trying to accomplish. If their goal is to make the
shard more like TC but permanent, they may have a winning formula.
I have a lockpicker there, close to 250 points of locking picking, detect
hidden, and remove trap. Removing guards from non faction towns means I
have to join a faction where I get ganked by other factions, get ganked in
town<easy to do considering skill make up>, or quit the shard. Right now I
am thinking the shard and I don't need each other.
gil
"Eric A. Hall" wrote:
>
> > Upon release of the faction system, guards will
> > cease to exist in non-faction towns.
>
> See, OSI thinks advanced means PVP.
>
> What does this accomplish other than turning SP into the PK+ shard.
Reds are a large part of SP's population, and without a change like the
one above they'd be pretty much shut out of factions. Non-faction
cities will still be safe, but banking or reg shopping in faction cities
will be "interesting" :) I don't know if I'd call SP PK+, I'd say it's
PvP+ :)
PvP is part of "advanced" in that there's no stat loss, but advanced
also includes no recall, shopkeepers don't buy from players, and the
price of everything but regs and vendor charges is 3x normal (I'm
forgetting a few more I bet). Good/evil was part of it, but no longer.
gil
gil
>
> "Eric A. Hall" wrote:
> >
> > > Upon release of the faction system, guards will
> > > cease to exist in non-faction towns.
> >
> > See, OSI thinks advanced means PVP.
> >
> > What does this accomplish other than turning SP into the PK+ shard.
>
> Reds are a large part of SP's population, and without a change like the
> one above they'd be pretty much shut out of factions. Non-faction
> cities will still be safe, but banking or reg shopping in faction cities
> will be "interesting" :) I don't know if I'd call SP PK+, I'd say it's
> PvP+ :)
I need to correct what I said, I assumed the announcement was supposed
to say that guards would be removed from faction towns (so faction reds
could fight in faction towns), and that it was a typo when it said
non-faction towns. Runesabre confirmed it's no typo. If anyone is
interested in a discussion on this with comments from Rune, check out
http://forums.battlevortex.com/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=spwar&Number=10045&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5
> PvP is part of "advanced" in that there's no stat loss, but advanced
> also includes no recall, shopkeepers don't buy from players, and the
> price of everything but regs and vendor charges is 3x normal (I'm
> forgetting a few more I bet).
I forgot the "one char per acct" part, and to specify that normal prices
for vendors and regs is just a proposal at the moment. *sigh*
gil
Rick Cortese
>
>
> "Eric A. Hall" wrote:
> >
> > > Upon release of the faction system, guards
will
> > > cease to exist in non-faction towns.
> >
> > See, OSI thinks advanced means PVP.
> >
> > What does this accomplish other than turning SP into the PK+ shard.
>
> Reds are a large part of SP's population, and without a change like the
> one above they'd be pretty much shut out of factions. Non-faction
> cities will still be safe, but banking or reg shopping in faction cities
> will be "interesting" :) I don't know if I'd call SP PK+, I'd say it's
> PvP+ :)
>
> also includes no recall, shopkeepers don't buy from players, and the
> price of everything but regs and vendor charges is 3x normal (I'm
I realize it is subjective, but I look at the shard and the characteristics
that stand out for me are.
1) No stat loss, whatever this means to PvP it means more to the kewlios.
2) No recall, whatever it means to PvP it means more to the kewlios.
3) Shop keepers don't buy anything, this is anti everybody but PvP and PvM.
4) Shop keepers have 3x prices. This hurts the little guy that just wants to
mine, sell a few shields, and buy some more shovels.
5) Housing is still triple cost, thieves can steal the key of a 44k gp boat
and redeed it in a second. For that matter, if you get killed with any key
on you including a copy the boat can be redeeded. This is kind of a dim
outlook for anyone, means weeks of going w/o a house.
I get along OK on the shard without a killing machine, but I don't see a lot
of people joining the shard because of these changes.
IMO: They are going the opposite of the direction they should if they want
it to be a popular shard. The elimination of ROT will make the learning
curve for thieves and PKs much faster which isn't going to convince PKs and
thieves to give the shard a look..
BTW: Went by Ocllo to buy up some reagents there last weekend. There were 6
dead nobles and seekers the first time I went by and 7 about 10 minutes
later when I returned.
IMO: This exploit is poluting the shard and giving a huge advantage to the
exploiting dudes that are taking advantage of it. I mean some jerk picked up
13 X 700 gps for 10 minutes work. OSI not doing anything about it is really
stupid.
If OSI didn't have their heads so far up their butts in favoring expoiters
and jerks like this though a lack of action, they should at least do
something nice for everyone else. Let smiths make and sell kite shields at
200 gold each or something.
Eric A. Hall
Damocles
? It was always the PK+ shard. They just made it so difficult to
advance that most of the pks didn't bother with it.
I like those changes, I'd actually consider playing the server along
those lines but only if they wiped it first.
Yuri G.
>
>And the short answer is?
>
>Siege will just become another regular shard. Only there will be no
>difference in Trammel and Felucca. PKs can kick your tail on both sides. And
>what does THAT mean? DEWD TOWN!
What the hell are you babbling about? SP has no Trammel.
No Recall either. No stat-loss for murderers... It's a veteran shard
and we like it that way.
Mocker, DTM
Eric A. Hall
> > What does this accomplish other than turning SP into the PK+ shard.
>
> one above they'd be pretty much shut out of factions. Non-faction
> cities will still be safe, but banking or reg shopping in faction cities
> will be "interesting" :) I don't know if I'd call SP PK+, I'd say it's
> PvP+ :)
I saw your self-correction but wanted to clarify two points. This change
does nothing for Reds wanting to join in factions, but does let them fight
in non-faction towns. They can't fight in battles to take a town away from
another faction, but they can kill mules and newbs in non-controlled towns.
Neither of those will do anything positive for any red or any blue, other
than allowing PKing in town. PK+ not PVP+ or even Faction+ for that matter.
Eric A. Hall
> and we like it that way.
You saying that me and Cortese aren't vets?
Eric A. Hall
> Neither of those will do anything positive for any red or any blue, other
> than allowing PKing in town. PK+ not PVP+ or even Faction+ for that
matter.
I'm just dumbfounded by this.
It's a good thing I deleted my tamer, what with spending most of his time in
Delucia and Vesper he'd be getting ganked on a daily basis.
Yuri G.
I've seen both of you on SP. Cortese still plays there unless he
deleted his characters after reading the news...
Mocker, DTM
Kiril Threndor
>I saw your self-correction but wanted to clarify two points. This change
>does nothing for Reds wanting to join in factions, but does let them fight
>in non-faction towns. They can't fight in battles to take a town away from
>another faction, but they can kill mules and newbs in non-controlled towns.
>Neither of those will do anything positive for any red or any blue, other
>than allowing PKing in town. PK+ not PVP+ or even Faction+ for that matter.
FDrom how I read it, it's to make factions affect everyone. If you
aren't in a faction, you run the gauntlet of the reds in non faction
towns or abide by the rules, prices etc in faction towns.
--
________________________________________________
Kiril Threndor
DTM SP
Kiril Threndor
>
>What does this accomplish other than turning SP into the PK+ shard.
>
>
Over half the population are red but not many are PK's. You are more at
threat from the evils and blue twinks at places like Glow than from
PK's.
I really feel that yourself and Rick had a bad rub on SP. I guess it is
all a matter of perspective but I just never encountered the things that
you both did and I played SP for a while before I hooked up with OGD/DTM
and went red.
OK, Glow has its share of idiots but if you know this, why go there?
Kiril Threndor
>And the short answer is?
>
>Siege will just become another regular shard. Only there will be no
>difference in Trammel and Felucca. PKs can kick your tail on both sides. And
>what does THAT mean? DEWD TOWN!
Erica,
Kindly stfu :) There is no TRAMMEL on SP!
Your comments are the equivalent of all the people on the Dev boards
saying why SP should have bless deeds when they don't even play there.
gil
>
> Eric A. Hall <eh...@ehsco.com> only went ahead and wrote!
> >I saw your self-correction but wanted to clarify two points. This change
> >does nothing for Reds wanting to join in factions, but does let them fight
> >in non-faction towns. They can't fight in battles to take a town away from
> >another faction, but they can kill mules and newbs in non-controlled towns.
> >Neither of those will do anything positive for any red or any blue, other
> >than allowing PKing in town. PK+ not PVP+ or even Faction+ for that matter.
>
> aren't in a faction, you run the gauntlet of the reds in non faction
> towns or abide by the rules, prices etc in faction towns.
To add a bit to what Kiril said, Rune says that reds can still
participate in faction wars by fighting not in the guarded faction towns
but by fighting around the faction fortresses (where the sigils must
remain for 24 hours while they corrupt?). On the other hand, some of
the fortresses are in zones that will still be in guard zones? If so,
that partially contradicts what Rune says, unless he changes something.
Apparently another reason Rune is suggesting removing guards from
non-faction towns instead of faction towns is that the faction towns are
the ones new players start in, and it would be too difficult to recode
that. On the other hand, newly arrived players won't lose items if
they're ganked because all their items are newbified, so they could
easily migrate to guarded towns, so problem solved....
I guess the proposal makes sense in a way, but it doesn't make sense
too. I'd have thought that allowing reds to fight in faction towns
would be the highest priority, but obviously I'm not considering the
"big picture" sufficiently.
On the one hand they're changing SP to make it more attractive (removing
RoT, reducing reg prices to normal, etc.), while on the other hand
they're making us choose between non-faction towns swarming with reds,
and faction towns swarming with faction battles and where the prices are
faction controlled. I think these changes would make me less likely to
move to SP, not more likely. Add in the item bless deeds and the
possible influx of the grief players currently kept out because they
haven't the attention span to build a decent char under the old RoT
rules, and SP looks pretty unattractive now.
gil
Eric A. Hall
> too. I'd have thought that allowing reds to fight in faction towns
> would be the highest priority, but obviously I'm not considering the
> "big picture" sufficiently.
It would seem to me that non-faction towns should stay under LB's control --
including his laws and guards -- while faction-towns should have their rules
defined by their leader. If the faction head for magincia allows murderers
in town, then so be it. This would allow reds to participate directly in
faction wars in those cities where it was allowed, without screwing up
everybody else at the same time.
Rick Cortese
news:KoTydOAH$r55...@baywatch.demon.co.uk...
<snip>
> I really feel that yourself and Rick had a bad rub on SP. I guess it is
> all a matter of perspective but I just never encountered the things that
> you both did and I played SP for a while before I hooked up with OGD/DTM
> and went red.
I take the rubs as part of the game there. Most of my comments have to be
taken ~I put up with it because I am a combination of hard head and hard
core, but this is unattractive for normal human beings.
I think I am up to ~200k gp now, so death isn't a huge set back for me.
Because I don't have a killing machine, this means I get my money from
lockpicking and the occasional havest of low level monsters.
What happens is I get ganked when I go dungeon diving and I get ganked when
I go to the newbie type Orc and Lizardman spawns on the surface.
I *am* looking for trouble, close to master magery so I don't have to walk
anywhere. But whenever I walk anywhere using the path from the moongates to
the nearest city, I frequently get ganked or robbed.
Since the only path newbs can take for making money on SP are monster
harvesting or escorts, they will have to put up with being ganked and robbed
even when they *aren't* looking to be ganked and robbed.
If this is good or bad for the shard is open for debate.
It eliminates the type of player that can't handle being killed and robbed
while building a character. I am not convinced that all the people with this
type of play style should be kept off the shard. It eliminates players like
Ice, ingot head, Janey, etcetera.
It also eliminates the people that want to be idiot grief type players who
are not mentally equiped to handle a death or two, this is a good thing.
>
> OK, Glow has its share of idiots but if you know this, why go there?
Isn't just Glow, but it is a center of activity. I find the same thing in
Ocllo and Jehlom. There's only ~13 cities the game. Ones like Cove, Yew,
Nujelm, Minoc, Buc's Den, don't even have magic shops so they really aren't
well suited for being a home base. Up until recently Brit and Trinsic<Cove
and Vesper too> had invasions going on, so they weren't suited for character
building.
This meant all the pond scum and bottom feeders hung out in Glow to feed on
the parade of newbs going through.
Situation has changed, but for the longest time Glow was one of the few
choices left. This situation lasted long enough that a lot of people tried
playing SP and decided<wrongly btw> that Glow was representitive of the
shard. SP may never live down that reputation.
But sheesh, them boys should have been banned for TOS violations. Not like
they weren't continuing to use exploits and calling people fags and whatnot.
They just knew when the GMs were around somehow<inside info?> and curbed
their activities appropriately.
For all I know a lot of them have been banned now. I haven't seen the old
kewlio crowd around there lately. I should check the guild pages for dirt
bags like "a sewer rat" to see if they are even in the game now.
Erica
What I'm saying is supposedly Rate Over Time is one of the systems that kept
most "dewd" players OFF of SP.
I haven't actually been there myself, but I have heard that SP has the
doubled land, but no difference between the lands. It's like both lands are
pre UO:R. Pre UO:R is exactly what the "dewds" from the other shards WANT.
Now before we go further, I want totie two things together here. Dewd
players tend to end up being PKs. NOT PvPer's, but PKers. The kind that kill
you when you don't want it, have absolutely no purpose in killing you other
than to get your stuff and laugh in your face as they REZ kill you and call
you a NEWB even though you've played twice as long.
With that said, most DEWDS from the regular shards were mages. But reagents
will no longer cost three times as much. This means it will cost the same to
be a PK mage on SP as it does to be one on a regular shard. The PKs on
regular shards don't want to work three times as much to become a PK on SP.
They want to go find their "quick gain" tricks and use them to become
instant GM butt-kickers. After these changes, that is exactly what they will
be able to do.
And yes, you have the no-recall and no stat-loss thing for murderers on SP.
The statloss problem is exactly what the PKs from regular shards have been
CRYING for. So I'm saying that SP is going to become PK heaven for those
that were scared to go there in the first place for fear of having to WORK
for their skills. Now with these changes, the PKs that left the regular
shards are getting exactly what they want.
The ability to macro skills and/or GM skills quickly
The ability to buy regs CHEAPLY.
No Trammel for anyone to run to
No stat-loss
So it WAS a veteran shard, but after these changes, it's going to quickly
become a dewd PK heaven. THAT is what I'm trying to say.
Erica
--
The internet.
It's the socialization key of the new generation.
Yuri G. wrote in message <8s66mv$3fq$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>...
Eric A. Hall
Well the obvious reason, it's a guarded gateway between the old world and
T2A.
I also don't think that avoiding trouble is a valid part of "success." I'm
stupid like that.
Anyway, why will anybody go anywhere on SP now that twinks and PVPers will
be dominating every city.
gil
Excellent idea!
gil
Rick Cortese
news:sue81rh...@corp.supernews.com...
> I don't think you read what I was saying close enough.
>
> What I'm saying is supposedly Rate Over Time is one of the systems that
kept
> most "dewd" players OFF of SP.
Probably.
>
> I haven't actually been there myself, but I have heard that SP has the
> doubled land, but no difference between the lands. It's like both lands
are
> pre UO:R. Pre UO:R is exactly what the "dewds" from the other shards WANT.
No double lands, just a Felucca type place that is a little more Felucca
then Felucca.
>
> Now before we go further, I want totie two things together here. Dewd
> players tend to end up being PKs. NOT PvPer's, but PKers. The kind that
kill
> you when you don't want it, have absolutely no purpose in killing you
other
> than to get your stuff and laugh in your face as they REZ kill you and
call
> you a NEWB even though you've played twice as long.
That would be true with one modification. Dewd players tend to migrate to
where the living is easiest.
Right now, that is TC. Even with the modified SP, TC with its "set magery
1000", full spellbooks, 40 of each reagent, and house deeds in your bank
box, will still draw most of the dewds.
Even if SP had everything easy living TC does, but only eliminated one perk
like no 40 of each reagent to start, dewds would pick TC over SP because of
it.
There's a few other modifiers to the mix, things like persistant shard vs a
wipe, but I think TC is really a dewd magnet right now.
Otara
wrote:
>So it WAS a veteran shard, but after these changes, it's going to quickly
>become a dewd PK heaven. THAT is what I'm trying to say.
Well that might be a good thing for some people there. Wouldbe
hunters may become the hunted there I suspect.
Otara
Yuri G.
> I don't think you read what I was saying close enough.
>
> What I'm saying is supposedly Rate Over Time is one of the systems
> that kept most "dewd" players OFF of SP.
RoT was keeping non-dewd players off SP as well. SP desperately needs
more players, and RoT was the single largest obstacle to getting more
players. An influx of PK dewds really doesn't concern me, we're all
very experienced in dealing with those types.
> I haven't actually been there myself, but I have heard that SP has the
> doubled land, but no difference between the lands. It's like both
> lands are pre UO:R. Pre UO:R is exactly what the "dewds" from the
> other shards WANT.
You heard WRONG. SP does not have the doubled land, there is no
Trammel facet! It is not pre UO:R, we have all of the UO:R PvP
enhancements and other changes, just no Trammel.
> Now before we go further, I want totie two things together here. Dewd
> players tend to end up being PKs. NOT PvPer's, but PKers. The kind
> that kill you when you don't want it, have absolutely no purpose in
> killing you other than to get your stuff and laugh in your face as
> they REZ kill you and call you a NEWB even though you've played twice
> as long.
You're obviously very concerned about these PK dewds, but most of the
veteran SP players know how to deal with them.
> With that said, most DEWDS from the regular shards were mages. But
> reagents will no longer cost three times as much. This means it will
> cost the same to be a PK mage on SP as it does to be one on a regular
> shard. The PKs on regular shards don't want to work three times as
> much to become a PK on SP. They want to go find their "quick gain"
> tricks and use them to become instant GM butt-kickers. After these
> changes, that is exactly what they will be able to do.
Mages got the short end of the stick with UO:R PvP enhancements, far
more PvPers -and- PKs are playing warriors now.
3X cost reagants on SP made supporting a PvP mage far too tedious (I
complained about this for months back when I used to play my mage more
often). This was a long overdue change. Why are you so concerned about
PK mage dewds overruning a shard that you don't even play on? I do play
there, it's the only shard I play anymore, and I would love to have more
PK mage dewds to kill.
> And yes, you have the no-recall and no stat-loss thing for murderers
> on SP. The statloss problem is exactly what the PKs from regular
> shards have been CRYING for. So I'm saying that SP is going to become
> PK heaven for those that were scared to go there in the first place
> for fear of having to WORK for their skills. Now with these changes,
> the PKs that left the regular shards are getting exactly what they
> want.
They're getting everything they want except for easy victims. Most PK
guilds that come to SP are quickly discouraged once they find that the
general populace is more than capable of defending themselves. Not
having stat-loss on SP is not a "problem" as you call it, it's one of
the shard's best special features!
> The ability to macro skills and/or GM skills quickly
> The ability to buy regs CHEAPLY.
> No Trammel for anyone to run to
> No stat-loss
Sounds good to me!
> So it WAS a veteran shard, but after these changes, it's going to
> quickly become a dewd PK heaven. THAT is what I'm trying to say.
You'd know better if you were familiar with the SP playerbase. The
dewd PKs who come to our shard looking for the good life are going to be
in for a lot of rude surprises.
You have no reason to worry about SP, Erica. Leave these concerns to
those of us who actually play there.
Mocker, DTM
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Eric A. Hall
> So it WAS a veteran shard, but after these changes, it's going to quickly
> become a dewd PK heaven. THAT is what I'm trying to say.
First off, it never was a true veteran shard. There was too much gold coming
from monster bashing -- a requisite part of training up a PVP gimp -- for it
to be anything but a PVP shard. They should have turned it around, no gold
on mobs and NPCs buying limited quantities of items, forcing people to play
citizens first and fighters second. PVP between a GM tailor and a GM tinker
would be advanced, seeing it with typical 7x templates is not advanced.
Secondly, most of the PKs that I have encountered over my UO lifetime are
not really PVPers. Most of the idiot PKs I've seen run after a mana dump
fails or they attack the wounded newbie, very few of them can survive
against a good fighter character with a good driver.
Pix!
news:sucl902...@corp.supernews.com...
> I have a lockpicker there, close to 250 points of locking picking, detect
> hidden, and remove trap. Removing guards from non faction towns means I
> have to join a faction where I get ganked by other factions, get ganked in
> town<easy to do considering skill make up>, or quit the shard. Right now I
> am thinking the shard and I don't need each other.
Maybe I'm being dense. Why can't you do lockpicking in a faction town? Are
you afraid of notos?
Rick Cortese
news:#tT4gbTNAHA.369@cpmsnbbsa07...
You mean like Moonglow? No thanks.
I usually land on my feet after any big change. Takes some adjustment but
eventually I get a new angle.
Right now I seem to get ganked about every other dungeon run. I figure I
could do something like tie dungeon diving to what factions are currently
under siege and what dungeons they control.
But for the most part I don't go to big cities on SP. To many idjets.
Just logged this morning to test my lore/taming theory. Sure enough I was
right, locked lore and after taming ~3 cats and rats dex went up one. Set
lore up and on the very next cat got a lore gain.
But same old same old for my SP experience. I went to Jehlom and there was
an LoD idiot<named Hype> there shooting arrows at the town crier. I have
never seen a LoD member that wasn't a cheating/exploiting dirt bag. I
thought they had a guild ban, but I guess it didn't extend to SP.
Still thinking I should have tried an explosion/flame strike on him, looked
like he must of had several hundred arrows.
Brandy
>
> What I'm saying is supposedly Rate Over Time is one of the systems that
kept
> most "dewd" players OFF of SP.
>
Obviously.
> but I have heard that SP has the
> doubled land, but no difference between the lands.
Wrong.
> It's like both lands are
> pre UO:R
Wrong again..
>Pre UO:R is exactly what the "dewds" from the other shards WANT.
Pre UO:R is exactly what a lot of us non-"dewds" WANT too. But we will
never get it.
>
> Now before we go further, I want totie two things together here. Dewd
> players tend to end up being PKs. NOT PvPer's, but PKers. The kind that
kill
> you when you don't want it, have absolutely no purpose in killing you
other
> than to get your stuff and laugh in your face as they REZ kill you and
call
> you a NEWB even though you've played twice as long.
Dewd players tend to be little shits that name themselves such endearing
things as Crack Whore or Pee Stiffy. The kind that do anything to stay blue
while harassing the general player base as much as possible.
>
> With that said, most DEWDS from the regular shards were mages. But
reagents
> will no longer cost three times as much. This means it will cost the same
to
> be a PK mage on SP as it does to be one on a regular shard. The PKs on
> regular shards don't want to work three times as much to become a PK on
SP.
> They want to go find their "quick gain" tricks and use them to become
> instant GM butt-kickers. After these changes, that is exactly what they
will
> be able to do.
Post UO:R, GM Mages aren't exactly GM butt-kickers.
>
> And yes, you have the no-recall and no stat-loss thing for murderers on
SP.
> The statloss problem is exactly what the PKs from regular shards have been
> CRYING for. So I'm saying that SP is going to become PK heaven for those
> that were scared to go there in the first place for fear of having to WORK
> for their skills. Now with these changes, the PKs that left the regular
> shards are getting exactly what they want.
We have always had no statloss on SP. It keeps those blue "dewds" in line
there. UO has ALWAYS had more idiot blues than idiot reds.
>
> The ability to macro skills and/or GM skills quickly
> The ability to buy regs CHEAPLY.
> No Trammel for anyone to run to
> No stat-loss
>
> So it WAS a veteran shard, but after these changes, it's going to quickly
> become a dewd PK heaven. THAT is what I'm trying to say.
As I once told Alice Cooper (J-D) who moved his guild from Catskills (?) to
SP intending to "take over the shard", PKing on SP is like being PVP+
anywhere else. Most of the population is capable of defending themselves or
has lots of friends they can call on for revenge. With no recall, it is
trivial to find out where enemies live. With no statloss it is trivial to
take revenge on the offender, the offender's mules, and the offender's
guildmates if you so desire.
While I personally love ROT, I am willing to give it up if it brings more
players to SP. Bring on the "dewds", I like having plenty of targets.
--
Brandy (-I-/SP)
Dorian
wrote:
>
>Dewd players tend to be little shits that name themselves such endearing
>things as Crack Whore or Pee Stiffy. The kind that do anything to stay blue
>while harassing the general player base as much as possible.
>
So yuri's guildmates for example?
Damocles
wrote:
>
>>Pre UO:R is exactly what the "dewds" from the other shards WANT.
>
>Pre UO:R is exactly what a lot of us non-"dewds" WANT too. But we will
>never get it.
>
People who did well under old systems rarely want new ones. We heard
the same cries when mages could no longer cast instantaneously, when
archery was first buffed, when the rep system went in (all the poor
wailing dreads), when eval int and meditation were introduced, etc
etc. Hell, Damocles was at his strongest almost three years ago but we
all have to adjust.
Kiril Threndor
>So yuri's guildmates for example?
Well I am one and I'm red, as are a few others though the majority are
blue. Probably becasue we are a consentual Pvp guild which means that
either the targets are erd or don't give counts. I, unfortyunately, got
involved with KGB who do give out counts. Also realise that the majority
of SP's population are noto's and will attack any red/grey they seeso by
only having a few reds, it means they can kill the blue twinks while the
blues can deal with the others.
You know all this though Dorian, I guess you are just trying to score a
few cheap ones.
Dorian
<ult...@baywatch.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Dorian <bond...@home.com> only went ahead and wrote!
>>So yuri's guildmates for example?
>
>Well I am one and I'm red, as are a few others though the majority are
>blue. Probably becasue we are a consentual Pvp guild which means that
>either the targets are erd or don't give counts. I, unfortyunately, got
>involved with KGB who do give out counts. Also realise that the majority
>of SP's population are noto's and will attack any red/grey they seeso by
>only having a few reds, it means they can kill the blue twinks while the
>blues can deal with the others.
>
>You know all this though Dorian, I guess you are just trying to score a
>few cheap ones.
No, im saying she is defining dewds by their names.
Wouldnt Child Labor be a dewd name by brandy's example?
If it is, OGD, and DTM are guilty by association, are they not?
Brandy
"Damocles" <phae...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:j1jmusoda3bdnamg1...@4ax.com...
*shrugs* I play the exact same character I played before UO:R, aside from a
slight stat adjustment. UO:R did not affect my character badly at all.
What it DID do was create a legion of lootless dex gimps who get a good dice
roll on occasion, take down an unlucky mage or gang up on an equipped
warrior, and then brag to high heaven about how "skilled" they are. It made
PVP much more random with less emphasis on character skillset, preparedness
(how you equip), and personal ability to play that character.
--
Brandy (-I-/SP)
Kiril Threndor
>
>Wouldnt Child Labor be a dewd name by brandy's example?
>
>If it is, OGD, and DTM are guilty by association, are they not?
I dunno who Child labour is so you tell me. What I do know is that I
play with some great people on Siege, it is the ONLY reason I play
there. They are PvPers, some red, some blue but most importantly they
are fun to be with.
Did you get Pked a few too many times by OGD on SP Dorian?
Brandy
"Dorian" <bond...@home.com> wrote in message
news:ck7rOYTfFcYOHHjc8R0n1d=R8...@4ax.com...
>
> No, im saying she is defining dewds by their names.
Damn right, I am a card-carrying member of the name police and proud of it.
--
Brandy (-I-/SP)
Yuri G.
>
> If it is, OGD, and DTM are guilty by association, are they not?
How the fuck is DTM guilty by association? I've severed our ties to
OGD while carefully ensuring that only the highest calibre of
individuals make it onto the DTM stone. We've never been associated
with any character named Child Labor.
Once again, Dorian, you are revealed to be a lying piece of shit
whose slander is wholly divorced of reality.
Dorian
<ult...@baywatch.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Dorian <bond...@home.com> only went ahead and wrote!
>>No, im saying she is defining dewds by their names.
>>
>>Wouldnt Child Labor be a dewd name by brandy's example?
>>
>>If it is, OGD, and DTM are guilty by association, are they not?
>
>I dunno who Child labour is so you tell me. What I do know is that I
>play with some great people on Siege, it is the ONLY reason I play
>there. They are PvPers, some red, some blue but most importantly they
>are fun to be with.
>
>Did you get Pked a few too many times by OGD on SP Dorian?
Or did i loot their houses and redistibute their ill gotten goods to
their victims?
Ill let you ask.
Child labour is one of your mules, likely retired by now.
Dorian
wrote:
>
>"Dorian" <bond...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:ck7rOYTfFcYOHHjc8R0n1d=R8...@4ax.com...
>>
>> No, im saying she is defining dewds by their names.
>
>Damn right, I am a card-carrying member of the name police and proud of it.
I didnt say there was anything wrong with it :)
Kiril Threndor
>their victims?
And pray tell how did you manage that?
>
>Child labour is one of your mules, likely retired by now.
I don't have any mules. There has never been a child labour in DTM or
OGD while I have been there, not that I know of anyway.
Dorian
<ult...@baywatch.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Dorian <bond...@home.com> only went ahead and wrote!
>>Or did i loot their houses and redistibute their ill gotten goods to
>>their victims?
>
>And pray tell how did you manage that?
>>
As i said, ask them.
>>Child labour is one of your mules, likely retired by now.
>
>I don't have any mules. There has never been a child labour in DTM or
>OGD while I have been there, not that I know of anyway.
You are DTM
DTM is OGD
Child Labour is therefore your mule.
Dorian
wrote:
> How the fuck is DTM guilty by association?
By being allied.
> I've severed our ties to
>OGD while carefully ensuring that only the highest calibre of
>individuals make it onto the DTM stone.
Bullshit.
http://my.uo.com/cgi-bin/guilds.pl?g=89fc68e49f72ae0f:13
By your own words, guildwars on SP are used to denote alliances.
> We've never been associated
>with any character named Child Labor.
Gonzos mule was never associalted with you?
How about these dewd names?
Kewl Hand Luke, Cant Be Beat
Mad Bomber, Street Pharmacist
RicH, Trouble Maker
RicH Is A giMP, Guilds Gimp
>
> Once again, Dorian, you are revealed to be a lying piece of shit
>whose slander is wholly divorced of reality.
You might want to actually sever ties with your guild brothers, before
saying you have. It might be seen as a Lie to say otherwise.
Kiril Threndor
>DTM is OGD
>
>Child Labour is therefore your mule.
Well thanks for clearing that up but I am me. I have never heard of
Child labour so I really think I am missing out here, there is a mule
that I know nothing about who could have made me stuff instead of having
to ask brandy all the time. The only guild mule I know about is Daemon
Sorceress.
Also, DTM is not OGD, we are friends and share the same irc rooms but
the reason DTM still exists is because we decided not to be OGD.
Kiril Threndor
>How about these dewd names?
Now you are accusing me of something that just isn't on. Gonzo had quit
UO before I even started on SP. So I am guilty of what, being in a guild
that has some people in it who were in a guild that had a member that
had a mule before I joined, even before I played on the shard, called
child labour?
Hmmm, nice one Dorian, you really want to accuse me of something can you
make it a bit more current?
Yuri G.
>
> By your own words, guildwars on SP are used to denote alliances.
Guildwars usually do indicate alliance, yes. In this case we've
severed the alliance and kept the guildwar. Don't believe me? Guess
what, I don't give a fuck. You'd be well aware of the situation if not
for the fact that you don't actually play SP, you just dredge up
meaningless BS off the Web.
>Gonzos mule was never associalted with you?
Gonzo's mule was never on any of my guildstones, I never saw him in
game, he never muled for me, and I never used any of the equipment he
produced. How, exactly, were we associated?
>How about these dewd names?
>
>Kewl Hand Luke, Cant Be Beat
>Mad Bomber, Street Pharmacist
>RicH, Trouble Maker
>RicH Is A giMP, Guilds Gimp
One thing they have in common is that none of them are DTM, you
miserable little fuckwit.
Yuri G.
>
> You are DTM
> DTM is OGD
You are once again proving your ignorance. Everyone who is active in
SP's player community knows that DTM and OGD are two very different
guilds.
Same old Dorian, you've got nothing to offer but baseless lies and
accusations... You should consider therapy, it's sort of unhealthy
how you're always obsessing over us like this. Get a grip, dude.
You don't even play on our shard anymore.
Yuri G.
>
> Now you are accusing me of something that just isn't on. Gonzo had
> quit UO before I even started on SP. So I am guilty of what, being in
> a guild that has some people in it who were in a guild that had a
> member that had a mule before I joined, even before I played on the
> shard, called child labour?
>
> Hmmm, nice one Dorian, you really want to accuse me of something can
> you make it a bit more current?
This is pretty much par for the course for Dorian. He pulls
these ridiculous accusations out of his ass and then when people
call him on it he spews more lies. Give it another day or two
and he'll crawl back under his rock.
Dorian
wrote:
>Dorian wrote:
>>
>> You are DTM
>> DTM is OGD
>
> You are once again proving your ignorance. Everyone who is active in
>SP's player community knows that DTM and OGD are two very different
>guilds.
>
> Same old Dorian, you've got nothing to offer but baseless lies and
>accusations... You should consider therapy, it's sort of unhealthy
>how you're always obsessing over us like this. Get a grip, dude.
>You don't even play on our shard anymore.
>
>
>Mocker, DTM
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
You sure about that?
Rick Cortese
<snips>
> How about these dewd names?
> RicH Is A giMP, Guilds Gimp
Just a by the by. My sons and I kind of have a "cheapshot any OGD members"
since they saw fit to attack and kill my lockpicker.
I am kind of glad you picked RicH as and example of someone who should die
anyway. He took a dirt nap last night.<grin>
All in fun I hope, but OGD talked some more smack at the time, so they are
still on my cheapshot list.
It is an interesting dynamic: When a guild kills you on sight for no reason
it gives you the freedom of action to attack them. The threat of "Don't
screw with us or we will kill you" doesn't apply any longer since their goal
in the game is to kill you.
Kiril Threndor
Well if you did, you would know that DTM and OGD aren't the same thing.
I was killed by OGD member at the weekend. WE don't fight in each others
yards but DTM are allied with TaK and -I-, if OGD attack these then we
help them against OGD, even though some of us are in the same chat room
while this is taking place.
We play for fun, I like most of the OGD guys, and Gonzo, who you seem to
have a thing about, is a top notch guy. I have never played UO with him
but he is pure class in irc. Even though we on occasion fight OGD we
still all get on, enemies in game, friends out of it.
Damocles
wrote:
>>
>>
>
>*shrugs* I play the exact same character I played before UO:R, aside from a
>slight stat adjustment. UO:R did not affect my character badly at all.
>What it DID do was create a legion of lootless dex gimps who get a good dice
>roll on occasion, take down an unlucky mage or gang up on an equipped
>warrior, and then brag to high heaven about how "skilled" they are. It made
>PVP much more random with less emphasis on character skillset, preparedness
>(how you equip), and personal ability to play that character.
Bah, I had the most fun fighting when all you needed was 80+ magery
and a few key spells. Precast dueling was SO dull.
Brandy
Where did I mention precasting? Or dueling? I am mainly referring to the
"special hits" and lumberjacking bonus. And most fights are NOT duels.
--
Brandy (-I-/SP)
Damocles
wrote:
>>
>
>Where did I mention precasting? Or dueling? I am mainly referring to the
>"special hits" and lumberjacking bonus. And most fights are NOT duels.
There's an awful lot of people fighting still after the Renaissance
rules went in. I'm sure you think they're all "UOR newbs" as the
saying goes, but it just seems like another new order like all the
other new orders after major combat changes.
gil
Dam, instead of assuming, try listening a bit more.
gil
Damocles
I am listening. I hear the usual complaints about the UO:R patch and
how combat has been changed to require no skill, just 2 day old dex
monkeys whacking each other through special hits, yadda yadda. My
point is that these complaints always happen after a new system goes
in and patterns of combat change. To pull an example out of my hat,
remember the endless complaining about archer potion poppers? Everyone
hated them, people complained to Raph and the dev team for months,
etc. The arguments were the same: archer potion poppers needed no
skill, just target their opponent and have enough greater heals to
finish.
gil
Damocles wrote:
>
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:39:06 -0500, gil <g...@uswest.net> wrote:
>
> >Damocles wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:21:54 GMT, "Brandy" <no...@ghjjrytrs.jkl>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Where did I mention precasting? Or dueling? I am mainly referring to the
> >> >"special hits" and lumberjacking bonus. And most fights are NOT duels.
> >>
> >> There's an awful lot of people fighting still after the Renaissance
> >> rules went in. I'm sure you think they're all "UOR newbs" as the
> >> saying goes, but it just seems like another new order like all the
> >> other new orders after major combat changes.
> >
> >Dam, instead of assuming, try listening a bit more.
> >
> >gil
>
> I am listening.
I meant listen to what Brandy says, and stop assuming that she parrots
the complaining masses of pvpers. I agree about with your statements
about the complaints/complainers, I disagree with your characterizing
Brandy as one of those complainers. Her complaints are more along the
lines of your complaints, and if you listened to her more and assumed
less, perhaps you'd agree (or maybe not hehe)
gil
Little WhiteDove
<phae...@yahoo.com> wrote:
|To pull an example out of my hat,
|remember the endless complaining about archer potion poppers? Everyone
|hated them, people complained to Raph and the dev team for months,
|etc. The arguments were the same: archer potion poppers needed no
|skill, just target their opponent and have enough greater heals to
|finish.
I had an archer during that time. Usually carried 20+ greater heals for
using that "tactic." Died every blessed time with 20+ greater heals in
my pack. I'm not very talented at UO PvP :)
Once they fixed it (prior to arm/disarm macros), I could never get my
bow off in time to drink a potion anyway lol. I loved dragging my
paperdoll back and forth across the screen during the great pixel hunt
:)
Yeah, that had nothing to do with SP or UO:R.
-Little WhiteDove
Badb Catha, Lia Fail Empire
Atlantic
Damocles
>
>I meant listen to what Brandy says, and stop assuming that she parrots
>the complaining masses of pvpers. I agree about with your statements
>about the complaints/complainers, I disagree with your characterizing
>Brandy as one of those complainers. Her complaints are more along the
>lines of your complaints, and if you listened to her more and assumed
>less, perhaps you'd agree (or maybe not hehe)
>
>gil
Well, I wasn't really paying attention to the Siege politics routine
that Yuri, Kiril and Dorian were getting into (though stuff like that
is always amusing...keep it up, guys), I was responding to the comment
on how little skill PvP takes as compared to before the patch.
Kiril Threndor
>
>Mad Bomber, Street Pharmacist
>RicH Is A giMP, Guilds Gimp
>
The last three joined after we all left with Mocker when he took over as
GM of DTM. They are a part of the reason why there was a split between
OGD and DTM.
For some reason you have a very low opinion of us and DTM/OGD, I'm not
sure why. DTM is respected on SP by the majority of the playerbase. We
don't random PK, trash talk, ress kill (often) etc.
You would be surprised at some of the people who have been, are , will
be members of DTM but that isn't for me to say. You just go on thinking
that we are twink PK scum, nothing I say will change your opinion but
then who gives a fuck what you think anyway :)
Kiril Threndor
>> RicH Is A giMP, Guilds Gimp
>
>since they saw fit to attack and kill my lockpicker.
>
>I am kind of glad you picked RicH as and example of someone who should die
>anyway. He took a dirt nap last night.<grin>
>
>All in fun I hope, but OGD talked some more smack at the time, so they are
>still on my cheapshot list.
>
RicH and Mad Bomber killed me on my first day on SP, I had been playing
about 2 hours on the shard. They were in GC then and they smack talked,
dry looted.
I don't care though, I just can't get all worked up because someone
killed my char on what is basically a PvP shard. When you log in it says
expect to die often, it doesn't just say this when you create a char it
says it every-time you log in.
Your lock-picker is a valid target for anyone. With him you can make a
ton of loot but not fight, with my char I can fight but not make a ton
of loot, unless I kill your char when he has been picking! If you choose
to play a lockpicker, merchant, whatever on SP you must understand that
you are going to die, a lot, unless you stick to town.
You always say that it is unfair to your lockpicker as he is at a
disadvantage, well same goes for me, I'm at a disadvantage as I can't
pick locks.
Brandy
Let me explain further then. In my opinion, there is no way someone with
minimal equipment should be able to take out a fully equipped warrior or
mage (assuming roughly equal experience at playing the respective
characters). But with UO:R special hits/jacking bonus, it happens and it
happens a LOT.
Skill is only one part of it, how you equipped has always been a large
factor in PvP until now, especially in small battles.
Pre- UO:R, success at pvp depended on (in order):
1. connection
2. character skills/experience at playing that character type
3. equipment
4. luck
Post- UO:R, it looks more like this:
1. connection
2. luck
3. character skills/experience at playing that character type
4. equipment
The influx of bless deeds will only skew the lootless gimp trend even
further. That is why most SP players want bless deeds kept off SP. Killing
someone that resses, grabs a weapon and 10 bandaids off a vendor or a
corpse, and attacks you over and over, is not only no fun, but they have the
potential to kill you now. That was pretty much impossible pre-UO:R unless
you lost connection or lagged out.
--
Brandy (-I-/SP)
Eric A. Hall
> I don't care though, I just can't get all worked up because someone
> killed my char on what is basically a PvP shard.
There's the truth of it. It's not the advanced shard, its the PVP shard.
Although there are some advanced features to it -- notably slower
development and 3x house prices -- those attributes were quickly overcome
with mules and bunny-bashers (or air elemental bashers to be more precise).
> Your lock-picker is a valid target for anyone. With him you can make a
> ton of loot but not fight, with my char I can fight but not make a ton
> of loot, unless I kill your char when he has been picking!
You missed out on the big air elemental crush I take it. Pre-ren they were
dropping 500 gp each, and were only slightly harder to kill than an orc
lord. Not to mention escorts through the free gates and all of the other
ways that a warrior could make money.
Damocles
wrote:
>
>Let me explain further then. In my opinion, there is no way someone with
>minimal equipment should be able to take out a fully equipped warrior or
>mage (assuming roughly equal experience at playing the respective
>characters). But with UO:R special hits/jacking bonus, it happens and it
>happens a LOT.
>
There's a little bit of that old "why should warriors be able to one
on one a mage when the mage has all the regs and the warrior has just
a sword" here, but I do see where you're coming from. You gotta
remember, though, I don't look back on the pre-UOR time as my fun
time. I go back a long way before then, to the wild fights with no
spell delays, no GM skills, and no rules other than make the other guy
dead. I always found post-reputation system guild fighting dull, and
changing combat systems did little to change that. My characters have
always been geared to solo play, meaning no matter who they are they
must have high resist, magery of 70 or better and a GM weapon skill
(except for post Ren mages). Specialized guild fighting types have
come and gone, but solo fighters have generally had archetypes that
only change when fundamental changes are made to the system (archery
being buffed, eval int and meditation added to magery, etc). So, my
perspective on PvP is a little different.
Eric A. Hall
> Post- UO:R, it looks more like this:
> 1. connection
> 2. luck
> 3. character skills/experience at playing that character type
> 4. equipment
I'd put equipment higher, but only some kinds of equipment, namely the
weapon that the fighter is carrying. A red fencer killed my mage and a
friend's mage in about 20 seconds each with a vanq spear. First he killed my
pal who was way down on life from daemon bashing, then he appeared to recall
out while his buddy looted. After I rushed into the room and rezzed my
friend so we could gank the looter, the red popped out of hiding, hit me
with three paralyze blows out of five swings (the first of which totally
wiped out the reactive armor) and I was dead before getting off more than
poison.
So my ordering of the current fighter req would be:
1. weapon
2. luck
3. character skills (gm fencing/tactics)
4. connection
Brandy
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:45:47 GMT, "Brandy" <no...@ghjjrytrs.jkl>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Let me explain further then. In my opinion, there is no way someone with
> >minimal equipment should be able to take out a fully equipped warrior or
> >mage (assuming roughly equal experience at playing the respective
> >characters). But with UO:R special hits/jacking bonus, it happens and it
> >happens a LOT.
> >
>
> There's a little bit of that old "why should warriors be able to one
> on one a mage when the mage has all the regs and the warrior has just
> a sword" here, but I do see where you're coming from.
That is exactly my point though. You shouldn't be able to beat a mage if he
is decked out (regs, potions, horse, etc.) and you have nothing but an axe
and bandaids. An equipped warrior carries just as much as an equipped mage
as far as cost goes (exception is SP with the 3x reg cost - soon to be
dropped to normal prices). Yet the weapon and bandaid types now have a good
chance, and I see that as very wrong.
--
Brandy (-I-/SP)
Brandy
"Eric A. Hall" <eh...@ehsco.com> wrote in message
news:8si7c3$p...@dispatch.concentric.net...
Connection is first and foremost. If you can't stay on the same screen with
someone, you can't kill them.
You don't need a vanq spear to 5 hit kill a mage, I can do it with a gm
spear. The roll of the dice gave him the 3 para hits.
--
Brandy (-I-/SP)
Eric A. Hall
with
> someone, you can't kill them.
I suppose this is true for some classes (maces, tamers, mages), but with the
3 paralyze hits from the spear it didn't really matter. I will also agree
that the red didn't need anything other than the spear, which reinforces
your point about overall equipment requirements.
It certainly sucks to get 5-hit killed without being able to do anything
other than an opening poison.
> You don't need a vanq spear to 5 hit kill a mage, I can do it with a gm
> spear. The roll of the dice gave him the 3 para hits.
That's why I put luck up at the top.
Rick Cortese
news:bEO2GJA7...@baywatch.demon.co.uk...
> Your lock-picker is a valid target for anyone. With him you can make a
> ton of loot but not fight, with my char I can fight but not make a ton
> to play a lockpicker, merchant, whatever on SP you must understand that
> you are going to die, a lot, unless you stick to town.
>
> You always say that it is unfair to your lockpicker as he is at a
> disadvantage, well same goes for me, I'm at a disadvantage as I can't
> pick locks.
Christ, just do like every other idiot on the shard does. Wait until I pick
the locks then kill me: Problem Solved.
Yuri G.
>
> Christ, just do like every other idiot on the shard does. Wait until
> I pick the locks then kill me: Problem Solved.
Not to pour oil on the fire here, but seriously Rich, what possessed
you to run a lockpicker on Siege Perilous? What's the appeal there? I
just don't get it...
You always seem to get into these situations where your non-killing
machine characters are screwed over by killing machine types, but
what with Trammel and everything on the normal shards, at this point
you can run pretty much whatever type of character you want in UO
without subjecting yourself to this sort of abuse. Siege Perilous
has always been clearly geared toward group conflict, so I'm sort of
having a difficult time wrapping my brain around why you would want
to run solo with a non-conflict char in that sort of environment...
You're just sort of setting yourself up for rough times, y'know?
I can appreciate your desire to avoid the path-of-least-resistance
mindset which so many UO players fall into, but surely there must
be some better way to go about these things as opposed to pissing
in the wind.
Kiril Threndor
>the locks then kill me: Problem Solved.
That is what I am saying! That is why you are a target, easy kill, lots
of loot, like EVing a dragon a few weeks ago :)
Eric A. Hall
> Not to pour oil on the fire here, but seriously Rich, what possessed
> you to run a lockpicker on Siege Perilous? What's the appeal there? I
> just don't get it...
Probably the same thing that possessed me to make a ranger: billing as "the
advanced shard for veteran players." If they had correctly labelled it as
"the ganking shard for veteran pimps and hos with multiple accounts" I doubt
either of us would have put much into it.
Kiril Threndor
>Or did i loot their houses and redistibute their ill gotten goods to
>their victims?
>
>Ill let you ask.
OK, I did ask in OGD chat what happened.
It seems you spent 6 months camping their houses trying to catch then
doing something wrong. It all came about after 2 OGD killed 6 of your
guild in a battle, it left you a bit sore.
Your whole purpose on SP after this was trying to catch them sploiting
as you just couldn't believe that you all sucked that bad that 2 of them
could beat you without cheating.
You did in fact loot Mad Bombers house. YOU used an exploit to do so.
Gonzo doesn't have Usenet access so he asked me to say "
"I think that's why the tard started camping... I cant really remember
who he is except the fact that he constantly camped our houses, shit I
can't even remember the guild he was in".
Rick Cortese
news:8sif8h$bcu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Rick Cortese wrote:
> >
> > Christ, just do like every other idiot on the shard does. Wait until
> > I pick the locks then kill me: Problem Solved.
>
> you to run a lockpicker on Siege Perilous? What's the appeal there? I
> just don't get it...
Seriously, I wanted a challenge. It was fairly obvious early on that only a
few character templates were going to work so I wanted to try something
unusual.
>
> You always seem to get into these situations where your non-killing
> machine characters are screwed over by killing machine types, but
> what with Trammel and everything on the normal shards, at this point
> you can run pretty much whatever type of character you want in UO
> without subjecting yourself to this sort of abuse. Siege Perilous
> has always been clearly geared toward group conflict, so I'm sort of
> having a difficult time wrapping my brain around why you would want
> to run solo with a non-conflict char in that sort of environment...
Well, I have reached my goals, for a solo the character is fairly
successful. Did all this pretty much w/o taking the easy way out for most of
the money. Just a couple of escorts, not a lot of monster harvesting.
I still look for challenges in the game. Most of the SP crowd only give lip
service to this. I mean all no recall means to 90% of the people on the
shard is use gate travel. Up to ~90 magery and I still walk everywhere or
take a boat. You walk places you are asking for trouble, that's me.
But by challenges I don't mean getting ganked every other time I am
operating outside of a guard zone.
To me the test for a advanced play was exactly because of the conditions you
described. Anybody<almost> can just get a warrior type template and survive,
no brainer. If you are locked into advanced shard means PvP which seems to
be the case, it just means it is even more difficult.
That being said, I now have frequent 6-30 second freezes everytime I play.
Not like I could have chosen PvP anyway.
>
> You're just sort of setting yourself up for rough times, y'know?
> I can appreciate your desire to avoid the path-of-least-resistance
> mindset which so many UO players fall into, but surely there must
> be some better way to go about these things as opposed to pissing
> in the wind.
>
Don't mind me. I am just getting closure on it. There does come a time when
the game as I have defined it is over and I think I have reached that stage
on SP.
It isn't the level of PvP on the shard that I find distressing, it is the
level of anything else.
Brandy
>
> > Not to pour oil on the fire here, but seriously Rich, what possessed
> > you to run a lockpicker on Siege Perilous? What's the appeal there? I
> > just don't get it...
>
"the
> advanced shard for veteran players." If they had correctly labelled it as
> "the ganking shard for veteran pimps and hos with multiple accounts" I
doubt
> either of us would have put much into it.
Solo players usually don't fare too well on SP. You really have to
understand the politics of the shard and who "owns" what area to even try to
make a go of it solo.
Guild lockpickers actually make out quite well, because if they get ganked,
backup is usually just an irc message away. A friend of mine pulls 100k a
week out of picking without even breaking a sweat, or devoting all his game
time to it. He gets killed now and then, but his guild usually manages to
take care of whoever did it.
I did pretty well solo when I first started there (first character was my
miner/smith), but I had spent quite a bit of time reading BV and some of the
guild boards and knew where NOT to go. That character has been pked twice
and is a gm miner/smith/carpenter. None of my mining or lumberjacking was
done in a guard zone either.
While I was working up my warrior, I managed to get her pked 3x IIRC. I
stayed in town a lot though. Still, over the 3 months it took to complete
her, that isn't bad (and certainly not as bad as when I started playing UO
back in the dread days and got pked fairly regularly). My archer/fisherman
got pked once while I was training him up, and never since.
--
Brandy (-I-/SP)
Eric A. Hall
> understand the politics of the shard and who "owns" what area to even try
to
> make a go of it solo.
The politics of SP are just another dimension to the PVP focus. They don't
make the shard any more advanced, rather they make the PVP aspects more
complex.
> Guild lockpickers actually make out quite well, because if they get
ganked,
> backup is usually just an irc message away. A friend of mine pulls 100k a
> week out of picking without even breaking a sweat, or devoting all his
game
> time to it. He gets killed now and then, but his guild usually manages to
> take care of whoever did it.
I had gotten to dragon levels on my ranger before I quit the shard. It
wasn't anything to get 50k in a weekend in the T2A desert fighting stone
harpies, cyclops and titans. I think I paid for a boat in one weekend, and
paid for a house in three. It's not that it isn't possible to solo, or that
it isn't possible to build a non-combat character outside of a guild, the
issue is that the shard is so heavily dominated by PVP types that it is
incredibly irritating to do anything other than PVP without muling a second
account or being a guild's slave. I know it's possible because I did it; the
whole point is that as soon as I did it I quit because the hassle was too
high to justify staying on the shard and contributing to its future. It was
so incredibly annoying that I actively discourage people from going there.
> I did pretty well solo when I first started there (first character was my
> miner/smith), but I had spent quite a bit of time reading BV and some of
> the guild boards and knew where NOT to go. That character has been pked
> twice and is a gm miner/smith/carpenter. None of my mining or
lumberjacking
> was done in a guard zone either.
I got PK'd several times raising combat skills, gathering arrows and/or
wood, etc., mostly around Delucia and towards the end mostly around
Moonglow. The difference was that BP (before Puddles) I would just lose,
while AP I would lose, go get the dragon, kick some ass, and then resume my
business. Whereas before it might have taken 15 minutes to go rez and pick
up backup gear from the bank, it took an hour to go from Delucia to Britain
when it meant going back to Papau stables to get the dragon, killing the
idiot, recovering my gear and his, return dragon to Papau, sort the loot and
then finally head back towards britain. It was a Pain In The Ass.
What you and Mocker have both said is basically "don't go to moonglow." Well
yeah I probly wouldn't have been attacked if I had avoided moonglow but then
I wouldn't get an accurate measure of the shithead quotient, just as you
aren't. Rich gets a good measure in Serpent's Hold, I got good measure
around Delucia and we both saw it around Moonglow.
Out of all the neighborhoods on SP, I think I found one or two that were
positive places not dominated by gankers and PVPers. It just isn't a good
shard for lovers.
Dorian
<ult...@baywatch.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>OK, I did ask in OGD chat what happened.
>
>It seems you spent 6 months camping their houses trying to catch then
>doing something wrong. It all came about after 2 OGD killed 6 of your
>guild in a battle, it left you a bit sore.
Yes, i spent 6 months dogging them, all the while duping gold i guess,
since i ended up with over 2 million.
>
>Your whole purpose on SP after this was trying to catch them sploiting
>as you just couldn't believe that you all sucked that bad that 2 of them
>could beat you without cheating.
>
I dont like cheaters.
>You did in fact loot Mad Bombers house. YOU used an exploit to do so.
A GM helped me too.
>
Brandy
> What you and Mocker have both said is basically "don't go to moonglow."
Well
> yeah I probly wouldn't have been attacked if I had avoided moonglow but
then
> I wouldn't get an accurate measure of the shithead quotient, just as you
> aren't. Rich gets a good measure in Serpent's Hold, I got good measure
> around Delucia and we both saw it around Moonglow.
>
Actually Glow became *really* bad during the last 6 months or so. Before
that, it wasn't any worse than any other town area. I financed my house by
farming regs there back when I was blue and got attacked just twice. It got
bad after housing was allowed again because a couple twink guilds placed
there specifically for the purpose of having a base to kill newbies from.
My fisherman has a small house there still, so, yeah, I do still get a good
measure of the shithead quotient.
--
Brandy (-I-/SP)
ouc22
<ult...@baywatch.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Dorian <bond...@home.com> only went ahead and wrote!
>>Or did i loot their houses and redistibute their ill gotten goods to
>>their victims?
>>
>>Ill let you ask.
>
>OK, I did ask in OGD chat what happened.
>
>It seems you spent 6 months camping their houses trying to catch then
>doing something wrong. It all came about after 2 OGD killed 6 of your
>guild in a battle, it left you a bit sore.
>
>Your whole purpose on SP after this was trying to catch them sploiting
>as you just couldn't believe that you all sucked that bad that 2 of them
>could beat you without cheating.
>
>You did in fact loot Mad Bombers house. YOU used an exploit to do so.
>
>Gonzo doesn't have Usenet access so he asked me to say "
>
>"I think that's why the tard started camping... I cant really remember
>who he is except the fact that he constantly camped our houses, shit I
>can't even remember the guild he was in".
PAG, actually.
Ria di Sonom (SP/PAG)
Kiril Threndor
>since i ended up with over 2 million.
You are an E-bay seller, why wouldn't you being a duper as well surprise
me.
>
>>
>>Your whole purpose on SP after this was trying to catch them sploiting
>>as you just couldn't believe that you all sucked that bad that 2 of them
>>could beat you without cheating.
>>
>I dont like cheaters.
Neither does anyone else but the fact is they don't cheat and because of
this you couldn't catch them.
>
>
>>You did in fact loot Mad Bombers house. YOU used an exploit to do so.
>
>A GM helped me too.
And that makes it right? You got a friend to kill you, you went through
the barricade and then got him to ress you on the other side, make you
feel warm and tingly knowing that after spending 6 months camping them
that it was in fact YOU that cheated?
Yuri G.
>
> > Not to pour oil on the fire here, but seriously Rich, what
> > possessed you to run a lockpicker on Siege Perilous? What's the
> > appeal there? I just don't get it...
>
> Probably the same thing that possessed me to make a ranger: billing as
> "the advanced shard for veteran players." If they had correctly
> labelled it as "the ganking shard for veteran pimps and hos with
> multiple accounts" I doubt either of us would have put much into it.
It took you this long to realize that SP is a PvP-oriented shard?
Wow, most people picked up on that fairly early... Hell, I've been
saying it since day one, you should of taken my word for it and saved
yourself the bother.
BTW, most of the conflict on SP is based on group politics,
territorial battles, and (believe it or not) good old fashioned
roleplaying. Of course, you'd actually have to be involved in the
shard's community (as opposed to running solo all the time) in order
to pick up on this stuff. But calling it "pimps and hos" is a very
inaccurate characterization of the overall SP playerbase.
Yuri G.
>
> Seriously, I wanted a challenge. It was fairly obvious early on that
> only a few character templates were going to work so I wanted to try
> something unusual.
There are dozens of viable character templates, not sure what you're
talking about here. Even the non-killing machine type skill sets can
be effective if you minimize your exposure to danger.
I think the real issue here is that you're running solo on a shard
which has always been oriented toward group cooperation.
> Well, I have reached my goals, for a solo the character is fairly
> successful. Did all this pretty much w/o taking the easy way out for
> most of the money. Just a couple of escorts, not a lot of monster
> harvesting.
Your goals were to earn ph4t l3wt? To what end? I've never really
understood this mindset...
> I still look for challenges in the game. Most of the SP crowd only
> give lip service to this. I mean all no recall means to 90% of the
> people on the shard is use gate travel. Up to ~90 magery and I still
> walk everywhere or take a boat. You walk places you are asking for
> trouble, that's me.
>
> But by challenges I don't mean getting ganked every other time I am
> operating outside of a guard zone.
Well, there's the rub, eh? Everyone talks about wanting challenges
until it comes down to actually being inconvenienced by said
challenges...
You walk everywhere when you could be gating, all you're doing is
making your own life more difficult than it has to be. Which is fine.
That's your perogative. But turning around and complaining about it
when things don't work out is sort of silly.
> Don't mind me. I am just getting closure on it. There does come a time
> when the game as I have defined it is over and I think I have reached
> that stage on SP.
Tis a pity.
Yuri G.
>
> What you and Mocker have both said is basically "don't go to
> moonglow." Well yeah I probly wouldn't have been attacked if I had
> avoided moonglow but then I wouldn't get an accurate measure of the
> shithead quotient, just as you aren't. Rich gets a good measure in
> Serpent's Hold, I got good measure around Delucia and we both saw it
> around Moonglow.
I was in Moonglow last night skirmishing with some twinks from
BAD and CPU. I've got no compunctions about getting down and dirty
with the shitheads from time to time, but I only go to their hangouts
when I'm looking for a fight.
Sounds like you were hanging around there just waiting to be
victimized... That probably isn't the best approach.
Eric A. Hall
> victimized... That probably isn't the best approach.
Hardly. I only had to walk/run down to the moongate and I would get
"buttmunch is attacking you!". Moreover, it would happen just about every
trip towards the end. It happened a lot in Delucia as well when I was a
noob, and there were also the sporadic cheats/exploits from PTK and others.
Seeing as how my character was not a ganking pimp (not even a rp'ing ganking
pimp), it got to be pretty old after a while.
Had I been in a guild, it still would have happened, with the added
excitement of *groups* of ganking pimps attacking each other. Not being a
ganking pimp, group battles of ganking pimps do not attract me.
I don't argue that I misinterpreted the function of the shard. I should have
recognized that it was dominated by ganking pimps earlier than I did. I am
telling you why I left. I am a veteran player who enjoys advanced tactics
and doesn't' mind occassional battle (just as I don't mind occassional
mining) but to play on a battle-dominant shard is no more appealling to me
than playing on a shard dominated by mining activity and nothing else would
be.
I have also been correcting some of your misrepresentations. You had been
referring to it as the veteran shard or the advanced shard along the lines
of "the shard for good-looking smart people who get a lot of sex" when
clearly that isn't the case. Your recent posts have used clearer wording
though.
We both agree that it is the PVP-dominant shard, and non-ganking pimps
should not play there. We should leave it at that.
Yuri G.
>
> I have also been correcting some of your misrepresentations. You had
> been referring to it as the veteran shard or the advanced shard along
> the lines of "the shard for good-looking smart people who get a lot of
> sex" when clearly that isn't the case. Your recent posts have used
> clearer wording though.
You have corrected nothing. I refer to SP as a "veteran shard"
because that is how OSI has chosen to define it. In the past I have
referred to it as a "PvP shard" and people have bitched me out with
"it's a veteran shard, not a PvP shard." If you feel that the
"veteran shard" phrasing is inaccurate then I would suggest you take
it up with the powers that be at OSI as they are the ones who have
determined that Siege Perilous should be represented as such.
Also, your continued insistance upon stereotyping SP's playerbase
as "pimp gankers" illustrates just how biased and uninformed your
position is. The majority of the shard's playerbase simply isn't
like that.
Rick Cortese
> Rick Cortese wrote:
> >
> > Seriously, I wanted a challenge. It was fairly obvious early on that
> > only a few character templates were going to work so I wanted to try
> > something unusual.
>
> There are dozens of viable character templates, not sure what you're
> talking about here. Even the non-killing machine type skill sets can
> be effective if you minimize your exposure to danger.
Yes, the:
[magery, EI, meditation, resist, wrestling]
[magery, swords, anatomy, healing, resist tactics]
[fencing, healing, anatomy, resist, tactics]
[magery, taming, animal lore, EI, resist]
[macing, parry, anatomy, resist, healing, magery]
...
[archery, tactics, magery, resist, anatomy, healing]
See a pattern here? This is a much narrower list of viable skill sets left
over after the prerequisites then you can have on a regular shard. To have a
viable character, you essentially have to dedicate 500 points of skills to
PvP, so I chose a skill set such that it took 250 points from the 700 total.
>
> I think the real issue here is that you're running solo on a shard
> which has always been oriented toward group cooperation.
>
> > Well, I have reached my goals, for a solo the character is fairly
> > successful. Did all this pretty much w/o taking the easy way out for
> > most of the money. Just a couple of escorts, not a lot of monster
> > harvesting.
>
> Your goals were to earn ph4t l3wt? To what end? I've never really
> understood this mindset...
Oh, you mean I don't have a higher goal like I ganked the guy who ganked me
for ganking a guy who ganked ...
Loot is to a large extent the measure of success in the game. I mean just
helped gank that guy RicH from OGD too, does that mean I win in your scoring
system? I really don't find it as satisfying as I used to. IOW: Ok, RicH
took a dirt nap, but it was about revenge vs a win for me. In some ways I
feel like I lost since I felt compelled to play OGD's game.
You just aren't picking it up at all. I think this is because of your PvP
mindset, your only definition of the game or a successful play is who lives
and who dies. Some of us are a little less focused then that. Things like GM
smith mean at least as much of a win as "I killed someone". I would
volunteer that for some like ingot head, GM smith was the only thing that
meant anything.
We could put it open for debate, but in a bigger world, I have chosen to
take a more difficult path. My making a viable character on the shard means
I am a more advanced UO player then any of the PvP players there.
It is like a chess player that plays 30 simultaneous matches or blindfolded
or spots someone a queen.
Obviously I can build killing machines, I am one of the best in the game at
doing it. I dare say I could get into a guild on SP if I wanted to, I have
had several offers. Sheesh, I don't even need a guild, two sons that will
join me there anytime I ask them to.
I remember you defined a win as getting to Deciet first and first placed
house. I ran into a group of people that considered getting to Fire Isle a
win because they could slaughter the wandering healers there and MMF better
then even Deciet with silver weapons. Coincidentally they also claim to have
the first house on the shard.
Wins are subjective. Depend solely on the POV of the player.
> You walk everywhere when you could be gating, all you're doing is
> making your own life more difficult than it has to be. Which is fine.
> That's your perogative. But turning around and complaining about it
> when things don't work out is sort of silly.
I do this by way of explaining why SP is a failing to attract new players
and is dying as a result. I say these things because having chosen one of
the most difficult paths possible and succeeded by any measure, I am now
publically trying to convince myself to move on to a new challege.
I did this particular game style for a challenge. That challenge is over. I
don't see anyone other then myself that is that hardcore where they would
put up with it. I don't think I see a reason for myself to continue with it.
I mean my standard advice for people starting a scribe is ~"Scribe 400
poison scrolls. It sucks but you get your starting bank and meditation".
That doesn't mean I don't have two GM scribes and enjoy it myself, just that
it sucks. I mean look at all the "Mining sucks" and "Blacksmithing sucks"
type post we see, same thing.
You would have to know my posting/TC history. I have always been about
finding templates that work, more the better. Most of my advice in the
newsgroup when the game was new consisted of answering people who had
questions like "How do I create a pure mage?" It is what I do.
The other thing I am very consistant on is diversity is good.
It isn't just my personal experience, it is the experience of legions. SP
has a very limited skill set compared to a regular shard. Lack of diversity
is a bad thing, it killed The Abyss and is one of the major factors killing
SP.
To me, there is no reason why the other skill groups outside of PvP could
have been given some attention. I don't know how you would go about making
blacksmithing more interesting on SP then a regular shard such that all the
blacksmiths in the game would want to migrate there, but that kind of stuff
has to happen<IMO> in order for the shard to be viable.
>
> > Don't mind me. I am just getting closure on it. There does come a time
> > when the game as I have defined it is over and I think I have reached
> > that stage on SP.
>
> Tis a pity.
Not a big thing, really. I went through a dozen wipes on TC<pre "set magery
1000"> where I had built up multiple GMs in everything from magery to
tinkering when TC had was using the GL skill curve.
Moving on is one of the things I don't mind doing. I have a degree of
abstraction with my characters, it is like reading a story. After their
story seems to hit a natural end point, I move on.
Right now the biggest challenges I find surounding this game are things like
saving SP. I do believe the place is worth saving, but am at a loss on how
to do it. I have less then zero influence with OSI anyway, didn't pay off
killing their employees and friends on TC.<grin>
Kind of forces me to get back into my other hobbies which is a good thing.
Eric A. Hall
> "it's a veteran shard, not a PvP shard." If you feel that the
> "veteran shard" phrasing is inaccurate then I would suggest you take
> it up with the powers that be at OSI as they are the ones who have
> determined that Siege Perilous should be represented as such.
I do in fact point out that OSI thinks advanced=PVP. I cannot make OSI
listen to me, but I can perhaps influence someone who is thinking about
going to SP because it's "the veteran shard" from believing the hype.
> Also, your continued insistance upon stereotyping SP's playerbase
> as "pimp gankers" illustrates just how biased and uninformed your
> position is. The majority of the shard's playerbase simply isn't
> like that.
I only comment on what I saw. It's not like I went to the Terathan Keep and
then bitched about PTK hanging out there, it is that I encountered PTK gimps
town-ganking in Papau and bitched about that, or that I got attacked by WC
and OGD reds outside Delucia while gathering feathers, or that I got
attacked by BAD outside Moonglow, and 10 other examples. If you avoid these
places (as you have said) then perhaps you are the one that has the wrong
perspective on the shard's true playerbase. Just a thought.
Yuri G.
>
> I only comment on what I saw. It's not like I went to the Terathan
> Keep and then bitched about PTK hanging out there, it is that I
> encountered PTK gimps town-ganking in Papau and bitched about that, or
> that I got attacked by WC and OGD reds outside Delucia while gathering
> feathers, or that I got attacked by BAD outside Moonglow, and 10 other
> examples. If you avoid these places (as you have said) then perhaps
> you are the one that has the wrong perspective on the shard's true
> playerbase. Just a thought.
Eric, are you even bothering to read my posts before you respond? I
already told you that I was outside Moonglow fighting BAD and CPU just
last night, so claiming that I am unfamiliar with those losers is
patently moronic.
What I'm trying to explain to you here is that there are a lot of
other people on the shard. Your limited experiences skewed toward the
scummier elements of the playerbase because you frequented newbie areas
as a solo player. If you had ever joined a group you would have had the
opportunity to interact with a much larger portion of the SP community,
in turn developing a much more well-rounded view of the shard.
The majority of the SP players I know are not "pimp gankers" not
even close. When you refer to them as such you are ignorantly
slandering a large group of people who you haven't even met.
Yuri G.
> >
> > There are dozens of viable character templates, not sure what
> > you're talking about here. Even the non-killing machine type skill
> > sets can be effective if you minimize your exposure to danger.
>
> Yes, the:
> [magery, EI, meditation, resist, wrestling]
> [magery, swords, anatomy, healing, resist tactics]
> [fencing, healing, anatomy, resist, tactics]
> [magery, taming, animal lore, EI, resist]
> [macing, parry, anatomy, resist, healing, magery]
> ...
> [archery, tactics, magery, resist, anatomy, healing]
>
> See a pattern here? This is a much narrower list of viable skill sets
> left over after the prerequisites then you can have on a regular
> shard. To have a viable character, you essentially have to dedicate
> 500 points of skills to PvP, so I chose a skill set such that it took
> 250 points from the 700 total.
Blah, blah, blah, this is just the same old song and dance from you.
As I said above, "Even the non-killing machine type skill sets can be
effective if you minimize your exposure to danger." Brandy illustrates
this point with her miner/lumberjack whose been PK'd maybe two or three
times (BFD) while doing all of her training and resource gathering
outside town. You chose not to minimize your exposure to danger, you
chose to go at it solo, you should have no cause for complaint when
this meets with results which were wholly predictable.
And again, as I said...
> > I think the real issue here is that you're running solo on a shard
> > which has always been oriented toward group cooperation.
That is the real issue here.
> > Your goals were to earn ph4t l3wt? To what end? I've never
> > really understood this mindset...
>
> Oh, you mean I don't have a higher goal like I ganked the guy who
> ganked me for ganking a guy who ganked ...
>
> Loot is to a large extent the measure of success in the game. I mean
> just helped gank that guy RicH from OGD too, does that mean I win in
> your scoring system? I really don't find it as satisfying as I used
> to. IOW: Ok, RicH took a dirt nap, but it was about revenge vs a win
> for me. In some ways I feel like I lost since I felt compelled to play
> OGD's game.
Well, I know RicH, he's a total piece of shit. So, yeah, ganking
him would earn you a big fat 'W' in my system.
I grok what you're saying about how it all comes down to point of
view but I still discount the value of bank balances as a yardstick
for accomplishment. I mean I've got ~300k in the bank, that means
I'm in pretty good shape as I can afford to buy 150 replacement horses,
but aside from what the gold can do for you it holds no intrinsic
value of its own. And if you don't have anything to spend the gold
on then what's the point in earning it? I've never understood the
mentality which drives people to amass gold simply for the sake of
amassing gold.
> We could put it open for debate, but in a bigger world, I have chosen
> to take a more difficult path. My making a viable character on the
> shard means I am a more advanced UO player then any of the PvP players
> there.
Actually, I'd say you're significantly less advanced than the
average SP player because you've completely missed the point of the
shard -- and I'm not talking PvP here, I'm talking group interaction
and socialization. I know many non-PvP people on SP who have managed
to play significant roles in the shard community. I'd say that these
individuals succeeded where you failed.
I'll say it again just in case it hasn't sunk in yet -- the real
issue here is not your character's skill set, it's the fact that you
chose to run solo on a shard which has always been oriented toward
cooperation and group interaction.
> I remember you defined a win as getting to Deciet first and first
> placed house. I ran into a group of people that considered getting to
> Fire Isle a win because they could slaughter the wandering healers
> there and MMF better then even Deciet with silver weapons.
> Coincidentally they also claim to have the first house on the shard.
That sounds like BS, wandering healer loot didn't get bumped up until
long after SP opened. OGD had the first house on SP Test, not on the
perm shard. I think it was TFS who placed the first house on SP once
it went perm (in the exact same spot we had used outside Moonglow on
SP Test).
> I do this by way of explaining why SP is a failing to attract new
> players and is dying as a result.
SP has actually been attracting hordes of new players ever since the
removal of RoT was announced In Concept last week. You can rest
assured that the shard's future is looking brighter than ever. 8)
Damocles
>
>> "it's a veteran shard, not a PvP shard." If you feel that the
>> "veteran shard" phrasing is inaccurate then I would suggest you take
>> it up with the powers that be at OSI as they are the ones who have
>> determined that Siege Perilous should be represented as such.
>
>I do in fact point out that OSI thinks advanced=PVP. I cannot make OSI
>listen to me, but I can perhaps influence someone who is thinking about
>going to SP because it's "the veteran shard" from believing the hype.
>
Well, in fairness the way NPCs and prices operate was supposed to
encourage a player economy based around craftsmen. It was sort of like
a final gasp of Koster's ideas on player justice being all that was
necessary.
Eric A. Hall
> What I'm trying to explain to you here is that there are a lot of
> other people on the shard. Your limited experiences skewed toward the
> scummier elements of the playerbase because you frequented newbie areas
> as a solo player. If you had ever joined a group you would have had the
> opportunity to interact with a much larger portion of the SP community,
> in turn developing a much more well-rounded view of the shard.
The only extra dimension that being guilded would have provided me with was
the opportunity to participate in group-gimping. I still would have had to
go to Delucia to tame bulls, still would have had to go to Papau to tame
fire breathers, would still have had to pass through Moonglow to get there,
etc. The only difference would be that when I got attacked I would have been
able to get the other player who was online instead of going to get my
dragon. Not much difference, I could fight in a group or I could not fight
in a group.
Maybe my spare time would have been filled with less traumatic events but SP
was not my primary shard, so I did not spend much off-work time there. Go
figure as to why I would choose not to do so.
Eric A. Hall
> this point with her miner/lumberjack whose been PK'd maybe two or three
> times (BFD) while doing all of her training and resource gathering
> outside town. You chose not to minimize your exposure to danger, you
> chose to go at it solo, you should have no cause for complaint when
> this meets with results which were wholly predictable.
No, the issue is how you are treated when you expose yourself to risk. On a
mature shard full of advanced players and true veterans, recognizing the
value that a diverse playerbase provides is key to growth and development.
Killing them for the fun of it is indicative of a ganking-pimp playerbase.
Once again you are saying "don't go there" and then calling it a victory.
You are wrong. Putting ourselves at risk is a standard part of the
historical game. How we are treated in these situations is representative of
the playerbase, not representative of us.
> SP has actually been attracting hordes of new players ever since the
> removal of RoT was announced In Concept last week. You can rest
> assured that the shard's future is looking brighter than ever. 8)
It's gotten several waves of newbs before and has shat itself out soon
enough. The accurate measure will be the number that remain in three months.
Yuri G.
>
> The only extra dimension that being guilded would have provided me
> with was the opportunity to participate in group-gimping.
See, that's just flat-out wrong. There are many guilds on the
shard for whom PvP is not a primary objective, these include NEW,
SH, PAG, -R-, HH, TTK, TDM, and LoV, just to name a few. What sort
of non-PvP activities do they engage in? What opportunities would
they have offered you? You'll never know, because you never bothered
to take an interest in joining the shard's community.
Brandy
"Eric A. Hall" <eh...@ehsco.com> wrote in message
news:8skte3$p...@dispatch.concentric.net...
>
> Once again you are saying "don't go there" and then calling it a victory.
> You are wrong. Putting ourselves at risk is a standard part of the
> historical game. How we are treated in these situations is representative
of
> the playerbase, not representative of us.
No, we are saying "don't go there solo" or if you do, have a guild you can
call for backup if you are attacked.
There is no area on SP that I have wanted to go to that I haven't gone.
Sure, I've been killed a few times when not looking for a fight, but it has
been minimal compared to what you and Rich are describing. Of course, I am
not real big on monster bashing...but I have been in every dungeon multiple
times (except Khaldun, haven't worked up the desire to check it out yet).
I do like to play solo a lot, so I made a fisherman. Pretty simple stuff,
the loot is decent, I can do it while reading a book, and there is next to
zero risk of attack. If you insist on playing solo on a shard that is all
about groups, there are ways to do it.
--
Brandy (-I-/SP)
Eric A. Hall
> > You are wrong. Putting ourselves at risk is a standard part of the
> > historical game. How we are treated in these situations is
representative
> > of the playerbase, not representative of us.
>
> No, we are saying "don't go there solo" or if you do, have a guild you can
> call for backup if you are attacked.
So it's still all about fighting, and we are back to being in agreement.
Solo anywhere and be prepared to die fighting, or call for backup so you can
maybe live through fighting. Pass.
I think this thread has outlived its usefulness for me. We should let it
die.
ps--once more for the road: "Ganking Pimps"
*snicker*
Brandy
Whatever. *shrugs*
There ARE a few ways to play SP solo, but hanging out in hot spots isn't one
of them. You are basically saying that you should be able to go anywhere
alone and expect not to be pked. Funny thing is, before rep went in, that
was the same attitude of everyone that wanted penalties for pking.
But, hey, you've got Trammel now if you want to solo in total safety, and
you've got statloss in Felucca to keep whatever pk population is left on the
other shards in check. You can play your single-player UO game on every
shard but SP, I'll take the politics and interaction necessary to succeed on
SP over any of the rest :)
--
Brandy (-I-/SP)
Rick Cortese
news:9qrrus0gg3f7llih2...@4ax.com...
There were several problems with the way the economy is set up as I am sure
you are aware. For one thing, anytime you need an axe, just kill a few
skeletons. Anytime you need other resources from lockpicks to food, just
kill a few Orc. It really makes most trades unnecessary.
I ended up with a huge arrow collection from lockpicking and occasionally I
enjoy a death or two to unload the dozens of potions I can't seem to resist
picking up. => I don't need an alchemist or a bowyer.
I think I ended up filling ~3-4 spellbooks from lockpicking and the
occasional monster kill, so scribes are not really necessary.
I can't think of anything I do buy on the shard other then the occasional
exceptional weapon. I doubt if I have bought 10 since I started playing
there.
Rick Cortese
> Rick Cortese wrote:
> > >
> > > There are dozens of viable character templates, not sure what
> > > you're talking about here. Even the non-killing machine type skill
> > > sets can be effective if you minimize your exposure to danger.
> >
> > Yes, the:
> > [magery, EI, meditation, resist, wrestling]
> > [magery, swords, anatomy, healing, resist tactics]
> > [fencing, healing, anatomy, resist, tactics]
> > [magery, taming, animal lore, EI, resist]
> > [macing, parry, anatomy, resist, healing, magery]
> > ...
> > [archery, tactics, magery, resist, anatomy, healing]
> >
> > See a pattern here? This is a much narrower list of viable skill sets
> > left over after the prerequisites then you can have on a regular
> > shard. To have a viable character, you essentially have to dedicate
> > 500 points of skills to PvP, so I chose a skill set such that it took
> > 250 points from the 700 total.
>
And the same entrenched line from you.
You really should buy a hint, I am not the only one saying that. I have
23,000 other people on my side that say the same thing.
Look, when I was younger I decided to paint my car myself. After about 20
hours of sanding and generally screwing it up, I said to myself, "I really
don't know what I am doing" and took it to a profesional shop. This was part
of growing up.
No matter what silly proposals you come up with, people hate them and are
leaving SP in droves. At some time you are going to have to go through some
personal evaluation and realize: You don't know how to make SP popular.
You will be a better person for it.
> As I said above, "Even the non-killing machine type skill sets can be
> effective if you minimize your exposure to danger." Brandy illustrates
> this point with her miner/lumberjack whose been PK'd maybe two or three
> times (BFD)
IIRC, it took ~2 weeks to make her GM smith. Being PK 2-3 times every 2
weeks *IS* too much for most people.
I don't see why you can't get that part: To much, more then they will
tolerate, over the top, ain't going to happen, see you later alligator! "Hey
Merlin, where you going?" "I'm going to Trammel!!!"
I never said 2-3 times in two weeks was a BFD for you, I am saying it is a
big deal to the 23,000 people that quit. This is not even a point of
contention.
I mean sheesh! We have people in the newsgroup that say being PK'd once
*EVER* is unacceptable. I can just about list their names from memory.
> while doing all of her training and resource gathering
> outside town. You chose not to minimize your exposure to danger, you
> chose to go at it solo, you should have no cause for complaint when
> this meets with results which were wholly predictable.
*RIGHT*! You got this one dead nuts on.
Weren't you around when I did my newbie studies?
This is the kind of stuff I do in the game. I started newbie characters on
all the popular shards and walked around to get an overall impression of
what the newbie experience was on a shard. I wasn't the only one that did it
either, I remember Alex did it more then once too. Of course I was attacked
on occasion. I reported the freqency of attacks and locations here.
I remember, as a group prior to that everyone in the group didn't have a
freaking idea what everyone else was talking about with respect to PK
levels, but everyone assumed they did.
I vaguely recall the results, but I think I averaged about 1 PK attempt
every 3 hours in hot spots like dungeons and 1 attempt every 6 hours in a
spawn area.
My conclusions were: The level of PK was about right for the average person
but a little low for my tastes. I was heavily shit upon by numerous
newsgroupies for drawing those conclusions. I mean I had never really
considered the "once ever is too much" was a real position held by a large
portion of the players and borne out by the popularity of Trammel.
PK is too low meant an attack every 3 hours for some people. PK is about
right meant an attack every 3 hours for some people. PK is completely out of
control meant an attack every 3 hours for some people.
Once we finally got a handle on the numbers the newsgroup fights went from
"No it isn't" vs "Yes it is" to something a little more constructive.
I am actually pretty lousy at playing the game the way it is meant to be
played. I always make up silly ways like "the newbie walks" to keep myself
occupied.
> Actually, I'd say you're significantly less advanced than the
> average SP player because you've completely missed the point of the
> shard -- and I'm not talking PvP here, I'm talking group interaction
> and socialization. I know many non-PvP people on SP who have managed
> to play significant roles in the shard community. I'd say that these
> individuals succeeded where you failed.
OK, so far we have a tie. I say I won since I intentionally chose a higher
degree of difficulty that displayed a deeper understanding of the game then
most of the SP characters.
> That sounds like BS, wandering healer loot didn't get bumped up until
> long after SP opened. OGD had the first house on SP Test, not on the
> perm shard. I think it was TFS who placed the first house on SP once
> it went perm (in the exact same spot we had used outside Moonglow on
> SP Test).
Sure someone is BS'ing, but it doesn't matter. Just take a walk around the
southern tip of Fire Isle if you want to check out their claim, but really
it doesn't make a dif. The only people that thought first house meant they
'won SP' were the people who thought they had the first house. It isn't one
of my criteria.
Drake
> Rick Cortese wrote:
> >
> > Seriously, I wanted a challenge. It was fairly obvious early on that
> > only a few character templates were going to work so I wanted to try
> > something unusual.
>
> talking about here. Even the non-killing machine type skill sets can
> be effective if you minimize your exposure to danger.
>
> which has always been oriented toward group cooperation.
Ah, sorry to interject. So it's the Advanced/PvP/Group-cooperation shard!
Thanks for clearning that up. =)
> > Well, I have reached my goals, for a solo the character is fairly
> > successful. Did all this pretty much w/o taking the easy way out for
> > most of the money. Just a couple of escorts, not a lot of monster
> > harvesting.
>
> Your goals were to earn ph4t l3wt? To what end? I've never really
> understood this mindset...
Really? Never understood the mindset to own stuff in UO other than the
clothes on your back and MAYBE have a home of your own to keep it in? Crazy
mindset that is when we all know that all you really need to be happy in UO
is someone to beat down.
> > I still look for challenges in the game. Most of the SP crowd only
> > give lip service to this. I mean all no recall means to 90% of the
> > people on the shard is use gate travel. Up to ~90 magery and I still
> > walk everywhere or take a boat. You walk places you are asking for
> > trouble, that's me.
> >
> > But by challenges I don't mean getting ganked every other time I am
> > operating outside of a guard zone.
>
> Well, there's the rub, eh? Everyone talks about wanting challenges
> until it comes down to actually being inconvenienced by said
> challenges...
Said challenges being getting pk'd and/or ganked. Man, I'm glad challenges
like that in UO are confined to a Advanced/PvP/Group-cooperation shard like
sp.
> You walk everywhere when you could be gating, all you're doing is
> making your own life more difficult than it has to be. Which is fine.
> That's your perogative. But turning around and complaining about it
> when things don't work out is sort of silly.
Ah okay. Get your drift, finally. <g>
> > Don't mind me. I am just getting closure on it. There does come a time
> > when the game as I have defined it is over and I think I have reached
> > that stage on SP.
>
> Tis a pity.
Yeah, cuz it's such a fun Advanced/PvP/Group-cooperation shard to be on.
Drake
snip
> SP has actually been attracting hordes of new players ever since the
> removal of RoT was announced In Concept last week. You can rest
> assured that the shard's future is looking brighter than ever. 8)
LOL. We'll see. Seems to me chief that its pretty much a last ditch effort
to save the shard. Once you and your established player guilds of multi-gm
characters beat the shit out of that horde of new players, we'll see how
many want to stick around. UO players, ESPECIALLY the type that would flock
to sp upon the *lightening* of restrictions, aren't exactly known for their
extraordinary patience. They'll have factions someday in Felucca on their
homeshards, and you gotta realize that alot of that wave of newbs on sp is
going to fade when the novelty wears off and they start missing the easy way
they had it back on the normal shards.
Just a thought.
Eric A. Hall
--
"Brandy" <no...@ghjjrytrs.jkl> wrote in message
news:I2qH5.134$131....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...