Cast, swing, target: Exploit?
Damocles
What I mean by the subject header is a mage casting an ebolt (or
whatever) spell and getting the target cursor, equipping his katana or
quarterstaff to pound on his opponent for a bit, and when he gets him
low enough on hit points disarming and targeting the ebolt before the
30 second timer expires.
I think this is a cheap tactic, the last serious imbalance between
mages and non - mages in combat. It should also be easily fixed by
making it impossible to equip anything with a spell "held" (with the
targeting cursor active after a successful spell casting).
Thoughts?
Austin
wrote:
Its definately an exploit. Been fixed on SP and i assume the fix is
coming to all shards soon.
Austin of Siege Perilous
When I've captured my adversary and he says, "Look, before you kill me, will you at least tell me what this is all about?" I'll say, "No." and shoot him. No, on second thought I'll shoot him then say "No."
Yuri Gorlinski
This is commonly referred to as 'precasting' and it is a legitimate
PvP technique, not an exploit. The dev team has known about this for a
while, it's one of the main reasons why they originally implemented the
30 second timer on spell targetting. I suspect they would have removed
precasting entirely at that time if they had not intended for it to be a
legitimate PvP technique.
Since precasting is seldom used outside of 1-on-1 mage duels, I see no
reason whatsoever for the dev team to remove it. It's not a very
effective tactic for mages to use against warriors, as engaging a proper
warrior in melee combat is tantamount to suicide.
Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
phae...@yahoo.com (Damocles) wrote:
>
> What I mean by the subject header is a mage casting an ebolt (or
> whatever) spell and getting the target cursor, equipping his katana or
> quarterstaff to pound on his opponent for a bit, and when he gets him
> low enough on hit points disarming and targeting the ebolt before the
> 30 second timer expires.
>
> I think this is a cheap tactic, the last serious imbalance between
> mages and non - mages in combat. It should also be easily fixed by
> making it impossible to equip anything with a spell "held" (with the
> targeting cursor active after a successful spell casting).
>
> Thoughts?
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Alex Mars
>From: phae...@yahoo.com (Damocles)
>Date: Wed, 11 August 1999 09:00 AM EDT
>Message-id: <37b37351....@news.slnt1.on.wave.home.com>
>
>
>What I mean by the subject header is a mage casting an ebolt (or
>whatever) spell and getting the target cursor, equipping his katana or
>quarterstaff to pound on his opponent for a bit, and when he gets him
>low enough on hit points disarming and targeting the ebolt before the
>30 second timer expires.
>
>I think this is a cheap tactic, the last serious imbalance between
>mages and non - mages in combat. It should also be easily fixed by
>making it impossible to equip anything with a spell "held" (with the
>targeting cursor active after a successful spell casting).
>
>Thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
>
-Agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.
N
a one-key-does-it-all macro which Casts, arms, hits,disarms
fires, which would be pretty goddamn deadly in close-
quarters, if you've practiced it a lot (say on an elemental).
N.
--
Nick Walton 3rd year Postgraduate Mailto://Nick....@ee.ed.ac.uk
(work)
http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~aardvark
Adam Burr
(just holding a spell) and casting, equipping, removing, releasing the
spell?
As much as I hate getting flamestruck by someone who runs on screen as
soon as they are visible, if the dev team thinks it's a legit tactic...
*shrug* But it seems to me that it should cancel the spell if a Mage
equips a weapon, shield, or drinks a potion, or uses any other skill,
really. But that's just me.
Actually, for the first while that I played a mage in UO, I thought you
couldn't move between casting and releasing a spell. I had never tried- I
had always assumed that the paralysis lasted until you released, not just
were done casting. Silly me. Heh. I think I would like to see that,
similar to stealth, you can walk but if you run you lose the spell.
Madman Across the Water
--
-==UDIC==- Goldenflame Dragon UO: The Magister, Chesapeake
: For the record, you don't need a third party program to be stupid :
: in UO, but they will help you be stupid more efficiently. ... I like to :
: think that I don't need a program to be stupid. -- Elinarson of Occlo :
Jagged
> whatever) spell and getting the target cursor, equipping his katana or
> quarterstaff to pound on his opponent for a bit, and when he gets him
> low enough on hit points disarming and targeting the ebolt before the
> 30 second timer expires.
>
> I think this is a cheap tactic, the last serious imbalance between
> mages and non - mages in combat. It should also be easily fixed by
> making it impossible to equip anything with a spell "held" (with the
> targeting cursor active after a successful spell casting).
>
> Thoughts?
Something I've never heard anyone point out (and maybe I'm just a moron for
thinking this - but here goes) but that I've always thought is this:
In RL, a lot of the people who are more on the "technically" brilliant
side - be they chemists, programmers, physicists, etc - are usually not that
"physically" adept. Oftentimes one who has no problem comprehending and
utilizing molecular theory couldn't catch a beachball if you rolled it to
him - much less a football or baseball. I guess in my own mind I always
think of mages as being like our RL geniuses - mentally brilliant but not
very "physically agile" - and often not very good with their hands (when it
comes to physical labor like carpentry or landscaping). So I guess I have a
hard time swallowing these "super characters" - grand master mage PLUS grand
master warrior/swordsman.
Now of course I realize that there are people in the world who are both
physical AND mental giants, but these people are much less common than
people who fit into either one category or the other. So while I disagree
that any mage should be able to do what you described above just on game
principle itself, I also disagree that they would have any real skill with a
katana in the first place (in fact it's a wonder they don't cut their own
head off by mistake - clumsy geniuses being what they are). In my ideal
world there would be something implemented where if someone has a high
magery their combat skills can't go above a certain level - and they also
have a chance of "hurting themselves" when wielding a combat weapon.
But thats only because thats the way that *I* like to roleplay a mage - I
realize nobody else does but I'm hoping some of you will read this and agree
with me.... ;)
-Jagged
Bob Roland
If it does, it's definatly an exploit. I think that the next update
will eliminate the ability to "hold" a spell anyways, so it may not be
an issue for long.
Great Bob
Corwin of Amber (SBR/LS, WE/ATL)
>a one-key-does-it-all macro which Casts, arms, hits,disarms
>fires, which would be pretty goddamn deadly in close-
>quarters, if you've practiced it a lot (say on an elemental).
>
>N.
If you can tell me how to do that with UOA, let me know ;P
Corwin of Amber (SBR/LS, WE/ATL)
It's very hard to do without UOA/UOE but it was possible. So no, it
never was or is an explot.
All-in-all I wouldn't mind if it was taken out - because in reality
it's just another tactic that favors those with really fast connects.
Corwin
On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:00:34 GMT, phae...@yahoo.com (Damocles)
Austin
<yg...@mojo.calyx.net> wrote:
>
>
> This is commonly referred to as 'precasting' and it is a legitimate
>PvP technique, not an exploit.
Using gate to break into houses was a legit house breakin technique
then?
The dev team has known about this for a
>while, it's one of the main reasons why they originally implemented the
>30 second timer on spell targetting.
It is not.
I suspect they would have removed
>precasting entirely at that time if they had not intended for it to be a
>legitimate PvP technique.
Suspect all you want it means nothing
>
> Since precasting is seldom used outside of 1-on-1 mage duels, I see no
>reason whatsoever for the dev team to remove it.
The dev team should remove all exploits.
It's not a very
>effective tactic for mages to use against warriors, as engaging a proper
>warrior in melee combat is tantamount to suicide.
Then dont, simple as that. If it is suicide to do so, do not use the
melee skill and free up 100 skill points.
>
>
>Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
>
>
>phae...@yahoo.com (Damocles) wrote:
>>
>> What I mean by the subject header is a mage casting an ebolt (or
>> whatever) spell and getting the target cursor, equipping his katana or
>> quarterstaff to pound on his opponent for a bit, and when he gets him
>> low enough on hit points disarming and targeting the ebolt before the
>> 30 second timer expires.
>>
>> I think this is a cheap tactic, the last serious imbalance between
>> mages and non - mages in combat. It should also be easily fixed by
>> making it impossible to equip anything with a spell "held" (with the
>> targeting cursor active after a successful spell casting).
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Austin of Siege Perilous
Austin
Amber (SBR/LS, WE/ATL)) wrote:
>It's currently the primary means mages manage to kill other mages.
>
>It's very hard to do without UOA/UOE but it was possible. So no, it
>never was or is an explot.
Hmm a technique that basically required a 3rd party program wasnt an
exploit?. Hmmmm
>
>All-in-all I wouldn't mind if it was taken out - because in reality
>it's just another tactic that favors those with really fast connects.
>
>Corwin
>
>
>On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:00:34 GMT, phae...@yahoo.com (Damocles)
>wrote:
>
>>
>>What I mean by the subject header is a mage casting an ebolt (or
>>whatever) spell and getting the target cursor, equipping his katana or
>>quarterstaff to pound on his opponent for a bit, and when he gets him
>>low enough on hit points disarming and targeting the ebolt before the
>>30 second timer expires.
>>
>>I think this is a cheap tactic, the last serious imbalance between
>>mages and non - mages in combat. It should also be easily fixed by
>>making it impossible to equip anything with a spell "held" (with the
>>targeting cursor active after a successful spell casting).
>>
>>Thoughts?
>
Austin of Siege Perilous
Drake
hehehehehehe - dam that was a funny little story man. I'm tempted now to
start a diff char on SP and gather folks to come and witness the crazy mofo
stuck on a roof.
Bob Roland <b...@interfold.com> wrote in message
news:37B1DED5...@interfold.com...
| Hmmm....I'll have to try it if it works.
|
| If it does, it's definatly an exploit. I think that the next update
| will eliminate the ability to "hold" a spell anyways, so it may not be
| an issue for long.
|
| Great Bob
|
Otara
before running it, use last target for the spells, and have an appropriate
minimum pause after arming before disarming to cast again. Not sure how useful
it would really be tho.
Otara
cor...@wind.atlantic.com (Corwin of Amber (SBR/LS, WE/ATL)) wrote:
Yuri Gorlinski
>
>Using gate to break into houses was a legit house breakin technique
>then?
Nope. One would have to possess incredibly poor reading comprehension
skills to infer that from my comments here.
>The dev team should remove all exploits.
See that? That's a statement I can actually agree with... You
do okay when you keep it simple and inoffensive, Austin, but your
attempts at flaming people for arguments you ascribe to them are
truly pathetic.
Anyways, precasting isn't an exploit, so the dev team has no reason
to remove it.
>>It's not a very
>>effective tactic for mages to use against warriors, as engaging a proper
>>warrior in melee combat is tantamount to suicide.
>
>Then dont, simple as that. If it is suicide to do so, do not use the
>melee skill and free up 100 skill points.
When I play a mage, I tend to reserve my melee attacks for other
mages, preferrably ones lacking armor. Intentionally getting close
to a capable warrior, or even an old fashioned tank mage, really would
represent an attempted suicide. Lacking dexterity and armor myself,
I would be shredded rather quickly. But I'm happy to give up the skill
points, because the melee attacks are invaluable for mage vs. mage combat.
Watch a few experienced mages go at in one-on-one duels and you'll
quickly see how important precasting is. Mage duels would be far less
interesting without it, they would lose an entire layer of strategy,
essentially being reduced to a contest to see who can fire off the
most Corp Por's before hitting the ground. And outside of one-on-one
mage combat, I've never really seen precasting used with any measure
of effectiveness...
Precasting is not an exploit -- it's a legitimate combat technique,
one which doesn't create or exacerbate any game imbalances, and I don't
see any sane and rational reason for nerfing it.
Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
Damocles
wrote:
>No offense, but is this really a significant problem?
>
Yes, actually. Consider this: a mage launches an attack on his
opponent with a magic arrow to bring down his reflection. He follows
with an Explosion, then pre-casts the followup ebolt, equips his
quarterstaff and closes. A few whacks of the staff do damage, the
explosion damage times in and then the mage immediately disarms and
targets with the ebolt. This is all in the space of a few seconds. If
there was no precast possible, the mage would have to commit the mana
to the ebolt or switch to true melee mode for fighting. The precast
provides a huge advantage in combat, especially for the attacker. It's
also clearly not intended as part of the basic game mechanics.
Alex Mars
An easy fix would be to have the act of equipping a weapon abort the pre-cast
spell.
-Agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.
Austin
wrote:
A third party program is necessary to utilize it effectively. Nuff
said.
>
>Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
Damocles
wrote:
>OK, point taken.
>
>An easy fix would be to have the act of equipping a weapon abort the pre-cast
>spell.
>
Works for me.
Adam Burr
possibly running to the list of things that will abort the spell. And
possibly drinking a potion. Pretty much doing anything besides moving at a
walk.
And yes, I play a mage.
Yuri Gorlinski
>
>A third party program is necessary to utilize it effectively. Nuff
>said.
UOA, a third party program that has the OSI stamp of approval. And
soon you'll be able to do it without any additional programs using the
arm/disarm feature the dev team is currently implementing.
Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
Yuri Gorlinski
>
>Yes, actually. Consider this: a mage launches an attack on his
>opponent with a magic arrow to bring down his reflection.
Real mages use Harm, as it doesn't disrupt your followup spell when
it reflects the way Magic Arrow does.
> He follows
>with an Explosion,
While the stunned victim just sits there, presumably...
> then pre-casts the followup ebolt, equips his
>quarterstaff and closes. A few whacks of the staff do damage,
If he's fighting a dex-monkey with a deadly poisoned katana, our
all-powerful precasting mage is liable to be quite dead before he can
finish those few whacks. If he's fighting someone wearing armor, the
quarterstaff will do minimal damage, a net loss as compared with what
a warrior can deal out in return over a similar period of time.
> the
>explosion damage times in and then the mage immediately disarms and
>targets with the ebolt.
If the victim can't survive an explosion/qstaff/e-bolt combo, he'd
be dead regardless of precasting.
> This is all in the space of a few seconds.
Mages really don't swing those quarterstaves quite as fast as you
make it out.
> If
>there was no precast possible, the mage would have to commit the mana
>to the ebolt or switch to true melee mode for fighting. The precast
>provides a huge advantage in combat, especially for the attacker.
Precasting is only effective in one-on-one mage combat, so it's an
advantage everybody can enjoy equally.
> It's
>also clearly not intended as part of the basic game mechanics.
Even if it isn't intentional, they should keep it in because it works
well within the system as things stand right now. Taking it out will
ruin mage duels.
Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
Damocles
wrote:
>phae...@yahoo.com says...
>>
>>Yes, actually. Consider this: a mage launches an attack on his
>>opponent with a magic arrow to bring down his reflection.
>
> Real mages use Harm, as it doesn't disrupt your followup spell when
>it reflects the way Magic Arrow does.
>
It also uses slightly more mana and has a small chance of being
interrupted. The extra mana can make the difference between a
finishing blow and watching the other guy heal from a few hit points.
>> He follows
>>with an Explosion,
>
> While the stunned victim just sits there, presumably...
Many times they do just that, especially since we're talking maybe 3
or 4 seconds.
>
>> then pre-casts the followup ebolt, equips his
>>quarterstaff and closes. A few whacks of the staff do damage,
>
> If he's fighting a dex-monkey with a deadly poisoned katana, our
>all-powerful precasting mage is liable to be quite dead before he can
>finish those few whacks. If he's fighting someone wearing armor, the
>quarterstaff will do minimal damage, a net loss as compared with what
>a warrior can deal out in return over a similar period of time.
Deadly poisoned katanas are hard to come by, as the poison wears off
after a few hits and it's rare to find a decent supply of the stuff,
let alone have the skill to apply it. Quarterstaffs don't do a lot of
damage but they lower AC after a few hits and inflict stamina loss as
well.
>
>> the
>>explosion damage times in and then the mage immediately disarms and
>>targets with the ebolt.
>
> If the victim can't survive an explosion/qstaff/e-bolt combo, he'd
>be dead regardless of precasting.
You know as well as I do that there's a huge random element to the
damage that combo will do.
>
>> This is all in the space of a few seconds.
>
> Mages really don't swing those quarterstaves quite as fast as you
>make it out.
Look up the Stratics essay on weaponry, I believe they're the second
fastest weapon in the game now.
>
>> If
>>there was no precast possible, the mage would have to commit the mana
>>to the ebolt or switch to true melee mode for fighting. The precast
>>provides a huge advantage in combat, especially for the attacker.
>
> Precasting is only effective in one-on-one mage combat, so it's an
>advantage everybody can enjoy equally.
Gee, it's amazing how it's universally used by mages who I fight with
mounted fencer then.
>
>> It's
>>also clearly not intended as part of the basic game mechanics.
>
> Even if it isn't intentional, they should keep it in because it works
>well within the system as things stand right now. Taking it out will
>ruin mage duels.
>
God forbid that happen. What would we do?
Alex Mars
-Agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.
Quaestor
> Hmmm....I'll have to try it if it works.
>
> If it does, it's definatly an exploit. I think that the next update
> will eliminate the ability to "hold" a spell anyways, so it may not be
> an issue for long.
The whole idea of "holding" a spell is that they decided to put targeting at
the end of casting instead of the beginning. To eliminate holding without
just requiring you to pull some fantastic feats of dexterity, they will hve to
put targeting at the beginning of casting. This will significantly alter the
balance of power against mages.
Austin
wrote:
>007...@direct.ca says...
And now that it is approved and the features are going into the
client, the dev team has seen the imbalance and are starting to
rectify it, why do you think precasting was removed from siege?
Adam Burr
>
>And now that it is approved and the features are going into the
>client, the dev team has seen the imbalance and are starting to
>rectify it, why do you think precasting was removed from siege?
>
does it work now?
Yuri Gorlinski
>
>> Real mages use Harm, as it doesn't disrupt your followup spell when
>>it reflects the way Magic Arrow does.
>
>It also uses slightly more mana and has a small chance of being
>interrupted. The extra mana can make the difference between a
>finishing blow and watching the other guy heal from a few hit points.
Good point.
>Deadly poisoned katanas are hard to come by, as the poison wears off
>after a few hits and it's rare to find a decent supply of the stuff,
>let alone have the skill to apply it.
I never seem to have a difficult time with this on Atlantic or
Sonoma... On Sonoma, where I don't have my own pet assassin to apply
the stuff, I simply buy pre-coated blades. Not that hard to find at
all really...
>Quarterstaffs don't do a lot of
>damage but they lower AC after a few hits and inflict stamina loss as
>well.
I'd tell you that you should always carry Total Refresh potions, but
I assume you already know this... The stamina loss really messes me
up in duels though, because we usually do without potions due to cost
and time considerations.
>> If the victim can't survive an explosion/qstaff/e-bolt combo, he'd
>>be dead regardless of precasting.
>
>You know as well as I do that there's a huge random element to the
>damage that combo will do.
Assuming you've got 100 Str, a single Greater Heal spell should get
you through every time.
>> Mages really don't swing those quarterstaves quite as fast as you
>>make it out.
>
>Look up the Stratics essay on weaponry, I believe they're the second
>fastest weapon in the game now.
This is true, but it's still rather slow when you're a mage with low
dex. Same holds true for katanas, which are even faster.
>> Precasting is only effective in one-on-one mage combat, so it's an
>>advantage everybody can enjoy equally.
>
>Gee, it's amazing how it's universally used by mages who I fight with
>mounted fencer then.
You must fight some badass mages. It's really effective when they
use precasting against you? If your fencer is a proper dex-monkey, I
would think you'd be able to cut them to pieces as soon as they close...
These guys aren't tanks, are they? I could see precasting being a
little more effective for tanks in that sort of situation because
they've got the armor to protect them from your attacks, but tanks
are fairly easy to take down if you can survive the initial mana
dump...
>> Even if it isn't intentional, they should keep it in because it works
>>well within the system as things stand right now. Taking it out will
>>ruin mage duels.
>
>God forbid that happen. What would we do?
Heh, well, you're being sarcastic, but that really is a damn good
question. I've done the order/chaos thing, I've done the red/blue
thing, and it all gets a little old after a while. Most of the people
you end up fighting are cowardly little shits who run away at the first
sign of trouble. Most of the people who are willing to fight you rely
on incredibly cheap tactics, and the majority of 'em are only in it for
the gangbanging. The sad truth is that formal duels are one of the
only satisfying outlets left for the true PvP enthusiasts in UO.
Last night a bunch of us decided it was time to take a break from the
monotony that is Siege Perilous, so we hit Sonoma for some dueling.
Just a bunch of us OGD guys on top of Wrong, with one of our friends
from BD (our rival guild), and a murderer named Ged who we happened
to meet up with along the way. We took turns going at it and a good
time was had by all. No innocents were harmed in the proceedings...
Some folks from the murderer guild 409 showed up, and that would of
been a fairly even fight if they'd been willing to risk it, but they all
recalled as soon as one of us teleported down to meet them. Can't really
blame 'em either, because they're statloss reds and we probably would of
killed every last one of 'em and they would of had to waste a heck of a
lot of time and resources rebuilding their characters. I do, however,
blame them for returning to the scene twice to repeat the whole process,
don't see much point in that sort of idiocy if they're just going to run
away...
But I digress. The point, I think, is that dueling was the only real
action we were going to find last night. And while I was seriously
outclassed by most of the people I fought (my mage technique is still
fairly mediocre, and I've only got a 52 resist) I was still able to last
a couple of minutes against 'em. Take out precasting and I would of
been able to last even longer, and that seems wrong considering how much
better than me some of those guys are. But Greater Heal is a very simple
spell, and it can keep you in a lot of fights for quite a while... The
veteran mages, their duels tend to last anywhere from ten to thirty
minutes. Without precasting those fights may well go on forever, or
at least until somebody runs out of reagants...
Admittedly, I'm being sort of selfish here. I don't want precasting
to go away because it would seriously screw up one of the things that
I really enjoy in the game. In my experience, precasting has been a
nonfactor outside of 1-on-1 mage duels. Obviously, your experience has
been different, and you don't care about dueling, and I'm not saying
that you should... Probably just one of those things that we're not
likely to ever agree on.
Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
Yuri Gorlinski
>
>And now that it is approved and the features are going into the
>client, the dev team has seen the imbalance and are starting to
>rectify it, why do you think precasting was removed from siege?
My recollection is that there was a CoB thread which kicked this
all off, in which a blacksmith complained about precasting being
unrealistic, and someone from the dev team agreed and said they'd
take it out. Apparently the opinions of the players who are actually
familiar with the technique are entirely irrelevant. It's not really
a matter of imbalance, as blacksmiths are not intended to be balanced
with mages in terms of combat.
Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
Austin
>In article <37b3015...@news.direct.ca>, Austin <007...@direct.ca> wrote:
>>
>>And now that it is approved and the features are going into the
>>client, the dev team has seen the imbalance and are starting to
>>rectify it, why do you think precasting was removed from siege?
>>
>Hmm. I'm not on siege, what was the manner in which they removed it? How
>does it work now?
Cast, get cursor, equip weapon, unequip, target, no spell shoots. :)
Simple.
>
>Madman Across the Water
>
>--
> -==UDIC==- Goldenflame Dragon UO: The Magister, Chesapeake
>: For the record, you don't need a third party program to be stupid :
>: in UO, but they will help you be stupid more efficiently. ... I like to :
>: think that I don't need a program to be stupid. -- Elinarson of Occlo :
Austin of Siege Perilous
Austin
wrote:
>007...@direct.ca says...
>>
>>And now that it is approved and the features are going into the
>>client, the dev team has seen the imbalance and are starting to
>>rectify it, why do you think precasting was removed from siege?
>
> My recollection is that there was a CoB thread which kicked this
>all off, in which a blacksmith complained about precasting being
>unrealistic, and someone from the dev team agreed and said they'd
>take it out. Apparently the opinions of the players who are actually
>familiar with the technique are entirely irrelevant. It's not really
>a matter of imbalance, as blacksmiths are not intended to be balanced
>with mages in terms of combat.
>
>
It does not matter <who> brought it to the attention of the dev team.
Spells were <not> intended to work that way. Cast ----- Pause -----
Target. <Not> Cast ------ Equip weapon ------- Fight a while --------
Unequip Weapon ---------- Target. If getting hit <before> the
targetting cursor is up disrupts you, why does getting hit <after> not
disrupt as well.
>Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
Corwin of Amber (SBR/LS, WE/ATL)
whatever you target. Plus you cannot macro arm/disarm with UOA. As I
said go do it ... and then tell me.
---------
Corwin of Amber (SBR/LS, WE/ATL)
>question. I've done the order/chaos thing, I've done the red/blue
>thing, and it all gets a little old after a while. Most of the people
>you end up fighting are cowardly little shits who run away at the first
>sign of trouble. Most of the people who are willing to fight you rely
>on incredibly cheap tactics, and the majority of 'em are only in it for
>the gangbanging. The sad truth is that formal duels are one of the
>only satisfying outlets left for the true PvP enthusiasts in UO.
*shrugs* I always thought dueling was nothing but the same thing
repeated over and over until someone dropped from it and much supplies
were wasted.
I really dislike fighting within rules or bounds too.
For instance, my mage is still holding on to his archery and because
of the arm delay cannot effectively use the "combo". Well, plus I'd
died to lag of death twice last night and decided not to even pickup a
bow.
So anyway last night I went out pure mage ... and ran in to one of the
cookie cutter tanks named Spawn at the Brit Graveyard. We blasted each
other a bit. He tried some para & combos ... I used my trap chest
macro ... I dodged his sword hits ... blah blah blah ... stalemate ...
greater heal wins.
Ok, so I dash off a bit and summon a daemon. Daemon smacks Spawn a
bit, but he runs off and para's the Daemon and then runs off to heal
and med or whatever. So here I am with a frozen Daemon, and no way am
I going to try to free it. Figuring Spawn would be back soon to
dispel, I inviso'd it.
Spawn came running back on the screen a few moments later. Sees me all
alone and opens fire. My Daemon broke the para at that point and
starts smacking the heck out of Spawn. I followed that up with a
couple of spells and down he went.
Now that's fun ;)
As for mage .vs. warrior ... in my experience ... my warrior has high
resist, high parry, and can heal himself 3 different ways. I generally
laugh at a mage trying the combo as he usually misses and gets torn
up. I'm usually fully healed before he manages to actually do any
damage with a weapon. OTOH my mage manages to kill warriors just fine
with just spells. Archery just gives him something to do in between
dumps.
Corwin
Corwin of Amber (SBR/LS, WE/ATL)
>>
>>It's very hard to do without UOA/UOE but it was possible. So no, it
>>never was or is an explot.
>
>Hmm a technique that basically required a 3rd party program wasnt an
>exploit?. Hmmmm
IMO, UO is a game which requires a 3rd party program to play
effectively so by your definition I guess the whole thing is an
exploit.
Don't think so? How many tries do you take to remove a ring from your
finger, or an earing from your ear?
But regardless UOA is legal now, so deal with it. 'nuff said.
Corwin
Austin
And now that it is legal the dev team is looking at some techniques
that <require> a 3rd party, evaluateing them and removing the ones
that dont belong. Precasting falls in this category.
>
>Corwin
Corwin of Amber (SBR/LS, WE/ATL)
>
>And now that it is legal the dev team is looking at some techniques
>that <require> a 3rd party, evaluateing them and removing the ones
>that dont belong. Precasting falls in this category.
But it's not required. I used to never use precasting at all, because
I thought it was clearly an abuse of UOA/UOE ... but when I brought up
the topic ... people came out of the woodwork to tell me they have
been precasting and never used a third party. Hey, one guy even said
he has good luck grabbing a katana ... go figure! ;)
Anywho OSI dinks with the game mechanics all the time, in the name of
balance and the never ending quest to see how many people they can
keep hooked online indefinitatly re-tweaking their characters. Stop
calling a game technique an exploit ... until someone at OSI support
says it is.
Corwin
Damocles
wrote:
>
>>Deadly poisoned katanas are hard to come by, as the poison wears off
>>after a few hits and it's rare to find a decent supply of the stuff,
>>let alone have the skill to apply it.
>
> I never seem to have a difficult time with this on Atlantic or
>Sonoma... On Sonoma, where I don't have my own pet assassin to apply
>the stuff, I simply buy pre-coated blades. Not that hard to find at
>all really...
I have a friend who can poison and another friend who can make greater
poison potions, but I really don't put enough time into getting them
at the right time, supplying the nightshade, etc. So I do without.
>
>>Quarterstaffs don't do a lot of
>>damage but they lower AC after a few hits and inflict stamina loss as
>>well.
>
> I'd tell you that you should always carry Total Refresh potions, but
>I assume you already know this... The stamina loss really messes me
>up in duels though, because we usually do without potions due to cost
>and time considerations.
You rapidly run out of those potions unless you carry around a lot of
them, though. I'm considering creating an alchemist with my final
character slot on Ches, but I doubt I'll put the time into it.
>
>>> Precasting is only effective in one-on-one mage combat, so it's an
>>>advantage everybody can enjoy equally.
>>
>>Gee, it's amazing how it's universally used by mages who I fight with
>>mounted fencer then.
>
> You must fight some badass mages. It's really effective when they
>use precasting against you? If your fencer is a proper dex-monkey, I
>would think you'd be able to cut them to pieces as soon as they close...
>These guys aren't tanks, are they? I could see precasting being a
>little more effective for tanks in that sort of situation because
>they've got the armor to protect them from your attacks, but tanks
>are fairly easy to take down if you can survive the initial mana
>dump...
>
You're assuming that every swing is a hit. Even at GM fencing /
Tactics and 97 dexterity (reduced from 100 by plate armor) you're
still going to miss occasionally. When they all score you're right,
but more often than not they won't.
These mages aren't tanks, no, they're usually equipped with
quarterstaffs or (more rarely) halberds. Some have no AR, others are
wearing leather underneath.
>>> Even if it isn't intentional, they should keep it in because it works
>>>well within the system as things stand right now. Taking it out will
>>>ruin mage duels.
>>
>>God forbid that happen. What would we do?
>
> Heh, well, you're being sarcastic, but that really is a damn good
>question. I've done the order/chaos thing, I've done the red/blue
>thing, and it all gets a little old after a while. Most of the people
>you end up fighting are cowardly little shits who run away at the first
>sign of trouble. Most of the people who are willing to fight you rely
>on incredibly cheap tactics, and the majority of 'em are only in it for
>the gangbanging. The sad truth is that formal duels are one of the
>only satisfying outlets left for the true PvP enthusiasts in UO.
I have the soul of an old - school pkiller. When I get into a fight,
it's for the sake of the kill, not the engagement itself. If it
doesn't end with the other guy's ghost spamming me, it wasn't worth
the time.
Otara
:).
Otara
cor...@wind.atlantic.com (Corwin of Amber (SBR/LS, WE/ATL)) wrote:
Adam Burr
Austin <007...@direct.ca> wrote:
>
>Cast, get cursor, equip weapon, unequip, target, no spell shoots. :)
>Simple.
>
not fire?
Austin
>In article <37b33a4a...@news.direct.ca>,
>Austin <007...@direct.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Cast, get cursor, equip weapon, unequip, target, no spell shoots. :)
>>Simple.
>>
>Any idea if anything aside from equipping a weapon will cause the spell to
>not fire?
>
>Madman Across the Water
>
I <think> thats it for now.
>--
> -==UDIC==- Goldenflame Dragon UO: The Magister, Chesapeake
>: For the record, you don't need a third party program to be stupid :
>: in UO, but they will help you be stupid more efficiently. ... I like to :
>: think that I don't need a program to be stupid. -- Elinarson of Occlo :
Austin of Siege Perilous
Yuri Gorlinski
>
>Okey doke. Well, my expertise with underhanded PvP techniques shines through
>:).
Goddamnit, there's nothing underhanded about precasting... There are
many fairly despicable PvP techniques in UO -- things like NPKing, blue
healers in the order/chaos wars, massive gangbanging, the killing of
newbies and tradesmen, and res-killing... Precasting doesn't even rate
on the same scale.
Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
Yuri Gorlinski
>
>I have a friend who can poison and another friend who can make greater
>poison potions, but I really don't put enough time into getting them
>at the right time, supplying the nightshade, etc. So I do without.
Assuming you can afford it and you can find a decent vendor which
stocks 'em, you'd be better off just shelling out the gold for deadly
poisoned krysses. Carry one or two at a time and save them for
fuckheads. Poison can be a huge momentum shifter in a fight, even if
your opponent has Greater Cure potions and a macro to chug 'em it'll
still delay his next attack and give him some additional damage to
worry about. And don't settle for greater poison if you can afford
to purchase deadly poisoned blades, greater poison does a little
damage but the deadly stuff can eat up huge chunks of health in a
very short span of time.
I started using poison like a madman after reading some of Canticle's
old tales of HaN, and I immediately became ten times more effective in
PvP... It can make all the difference in the world. Warriors have it
tough in UO, you need to take advantage of every little thing you can
in order to hold your own with the hardcore mages.
>You rapidly run out of those potions unless you carry around a lot of
>them, though. I'm considering creating an alchemist with my final
>character slot on Ches, but I doubt I'll put the time into it.
On Atlantic I've got an alchemist/assassin, training him up has proven
to be very worthwhile. On Sonoma, Alex has been kind enough to keep TWH
well stocked, and my order/chaos gimp gets by looting potions off his
kills and purchasing whatever he doesn't get enough of.
Excepting my order/chaos gimp (who dies a lot), all of my other
characters do tend to carry an excessive quantity of potions. Not to
make a theme of this but it was some of Dundee's old messages here which
originally convinced me of the wisdom of that... One or two GHeals won't
do, you want to have at least ten. Overkill is better than getting
killed.
>I have the soul of an old - school pkiller. When I get into a fight,
>it's for the sake of the kill, not the engagement itself. If it
>doesn't end with the other guy's ghost spamming me, it wasn't worth
>the time.
Hey, I can appreciate that mentality. I'm into the dueling thing
right now primarily because most of the other PvP stuff I've done is
so loaded down with bullshit that a lot of the time it just isn't
worth it.
Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
Yuri Gorlinski
>
>*shrugs* I always thought dueling was nothing but the same thing
>repeated over and over until someone dropped from it and much supplies
>were wasted.
A bit of that, yes, but individual instincts and techniques also
play a big part. I'm still a fairly mediocre mage anyway, so I need
the practice...
>I really dislike fighting within rules or bounds too.
I appreciate more open combat as well, but the prevalence of bullshit
tactics on the part of the majority of PvPers I've encountered makes
dueling more satisfying in some respects. Blue healers take a lot
of fun out of the order/chaos wars, and the widespread reliance on
gangbanging often makes going at it solo problematic regardless of
whether you're hunting reds or oranges.
>So anyway last night I went out pure mage ... and ran in to one of the
>cookie cutter tanks named Spawn at the Brit Graveyard. We blasted each
>other a bit. He tried some para & combos ... I used my trap chest
>macro ... I dodged his sword hits ... blah blah blah ... stalemate ...
>greater heal wins.
>
>Ok, so I dash off a bit and summon a daemon. Daemon smacks Spawn a
>bit, but he runs off and para's the Daemon and then runs off to heal
>and med or whatever. So here I am with a frozen Daemon, and no way am
>I going to try to free it. Figuring Spawn would be back soon to
>dispel, I inviso'd it.
>
>Spawn came running back on the screen a few moments later. Sees me all
>alone and opens fire. My Daemon broke the para at that point and
>starts smacking the heck out of Spawn. I followed that up with a
>couple of spells and down he went.
>
>Now that's fun ;)
Hahah, it sounds like fun... Making the Daemon invisible was very
clever...
>As for mage .vs. warrior ... in my experience ... my warrior has high
>resist, high parry, and can heal himself 3 different ways. I generally
>laugh at a mage trying the combo as he usually misses and gets torn
>up. I'm usually fully healed before he manages to actually do any
>damage with a weapon. OTOH my mage manages to kill warriors just fine
>with just spells. Archery just gives him something to do in between
>dumps.
That pretty much echoes my own experiences. My warriors do fairly
well against mages in one-on-one situations when I can close for
melee combat, and my mage is better off keeping a distance from anyone
wearing armor.
Lord Ssu-ma Shih-kai
gpf...@my-deja.com
a good pure warrior. Quit whining and learn some game.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Damocles
>yes, learn how to pvp loser. Its the only equalizer mages have against
>a good pure warrior. Quit whining and learn some game.
>
Another web board refugee rears his ugly head. Learn to post in a
newsgroup, halfwit, if you want your opinions to be heard. Don't
change the subject header, it creates a new thread under most
newsreader configurations.
Little WhiteDove
|Quit whining and learn some game.
No, no, no, it's WAY too easy. Two possible cheap shots in one
sentence...Someone else do it!
--
Little WhiteDove
Badb Catha, Lia Fail Empire
Atlantic
Yuri Gorlinski
>
>Spells were <not> intended to work that way.
How do you know?
> If getting hit <before> the
>targetting cursor is up disrupts you, why does getting hit <after> not
>disrupt as well.
Because that's how the game mechanics work. If you want a contextual
reference, pretend that the initial casting summons all of the energy
for a spell, which a mage can hold with minimal concentration for a
limited time before targeting. That's certainly not as ridiculous as
some of the things in the game, such as a person being able to hide
while mounted on a horse which is standing in the middle of an empty
field.
Purely in terms of game mechanics, I believe precasting is currently
balanced fairly well into the current state of PvP. I understand
Damocles' complaint, but playing a a warrior against powerful mages
is not supposed to be easy, and precasting is really only a very
small part of that. It has a much more dramatic impact in one-on-one
mage combat, and it's a very important component of that system.
Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
Yuri Gorlinski
>
>>I suspect they would have removed
>>precasting entirely at that time if they had not intended for it to be a
>>legitimate PvP technique.
>
>No, they were afraid of pissing off too many players.
I sort of doubt that, precasting really isn't all that common a
technique... Outside of mage duels, I rarely see it. Sort of depends
on what sort of crowd you're hanging with I guess...
>It's also used to precast off the target's screen, run up, attack with
>a katana or hally, and then release the Corp Por.
I've fought a lot of mage PKs on Atlantic with my warrior anti, and
none of them have ever used this tactic. Most just open with para's
and mana dumps, I would be most appreciative if they ever wanted to
engage me in melee combat before hitting me with the heavy stuff, as
it would save me the trouble of having to chase 'em down...
And there's also the small matter of dropping magic reflect,
something which has to be done prior to precasting and melee.
> You can do a
>gawdawful lot of damage in just a couple of seconds; sometimes before
>the "You are being attacked by ----" warning appears on the victim's
>screen.
I've never seen that either. You get the message as soon as you're
targeted for combat, before the first melee strike, before the
precast spell is released.
Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
Yuri Gorlinski
>
>> Goddamnit, there's nothing underhanded about precasting... There are
>>many fairly despicable PvP techniques in UO -- things like NPKing, blue
>>healers in the order/chaos wars, massive gangbanging, the killing of
>>newbies and tradesmen, and res-killing... Precasting doesn't even rate
>>on the same scale.
>
That's a ridiculous reason to "fix" it given the fact that doing so
is liable to disrupt important PvP mechanics. And eliminating blue
healers from the order/chaos wars would be just as easy, they've already
got a fix for that on SP for good/evil. But the dev team doesn't give
a shit about the order/chaos system, or else they would have taken care
of it months ago...
Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
Bob Roland
I hate it because of chowder heads like this who think "Duh...it *looks*
like a web board"
Buddy, here's a quick tip. Even if you can't make a coherent statement,
or say anything interesting, at least babble in an acceptable fashion.
Changing the headers is not the way to get your message heard.
Great Bob
gpf...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> yes, learn how to pvp loser. Its the only equalizer mages have against
Xigam
>
>And now that it is approved and the features are going into the
>client, the dev team has seen the imbalance and are starting to
>rectify it, why do you think precasting was removed from siege?
I really wish they would keep those button-down SP types away from the
fun loving game playin types.. I don't want to play on SP.. I know
some do.. so go there.. leave me alone.. fix Chessy's lag and I am
happy..
- Xigam
Xigam
wrote:
No, but LAG on Chessy is a significant problem or sorr.y. off topic..
I've lived thru the old days (10/1997), up to now.. recently back
after a summer break of non-UO stuff..
I can't belive people are still whining about PK's!!! Does anyone
remember what it used to be like?
I remember my first trip to Despise.. that little room you enter
first.. and about 20 corpses laying on the ground all killed by ONE
mage and firewall.. People need to get a clue.. sometimes you lose.
- Xigam
>No offense, but is this really a significant problem?
>
>>From: phae...@yahoo.com (Damocles)
>>Date: Wed, 11 August 1999 09:00 AM EDT
>>Message-id: <37b37351....@news.slnt1.on.wave.home.com>
>>
>>
>>What I mean by the subject header is a mage casting an ebolt (or
>>whatever) spell and getting the target cursor, equipping his katana or
>>quarterstaff to pound on his opponent for a bit, and when he gets him
>>low enough on hit points disarming and targeting the ebolt before the
>>30 second timer expires.
>>
>>I think this is a cheap tactic, the last serious imbalance between
>>mages and non - mages in combat. It should also be easily fixed by
>>making it impossible to equip anything with a spell "held" (with the
>>targeting cursor active after a successful spell casting).
>>
>>Thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>-Agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.
Xigam
>I would, as mentioned elsewhere, like to add the use of any skill and
>possibly running to the list of things that will abort the spell. And
>possibly drinking a potion. Pretty much doing anything besides moving at a
>walk.
>And yes, I play a mage.
Running? Come on give it a break! You must be the mage standing behind
rocks firing from safety.
Xigam
>You rapidly run out of those potions unless you carry around a lot of
>them, though. I'm considering creating an alchemist with my final
>character slot on Ches, but I doubt I'll put the time into it.
Before his account got hacked, there was a guy named Charlie Manson
that sold posion weapons off his vendor/house to the west of the
moonglow teleporter just before the moonglow mage shop that leads to
paupa.. might try there..
- Xigam
Tinarandil
Bob Roland <b...@interfold.com> wrote in message
news:37B47601...@interfold.com...
> You know, I love Deja News for the fact that it archives old posts.
>
> I hate it because of chowder heads like this who think "Duh...it *looks*
> like a web board"
>
> Buddy, here's a quick tip. Even if you can't make a coherent statement,
> or say anything interesting, at least babble in an acceptable fashion.
Corwin of Amber (SBR/LS, WE/ATL)
>>only satisfying outlets left for the true PvP enthusiasts in UO.
>I have the soul of an old - school pkiller. When I get into a fight,
>it's for the sake of the kill, not the engagement itself. If it
>doesn't end with the other guy's ghost spamming me, it wasn't worth
>the time.
Heh, I have the soul of an old school good guy:
I'd rather not kill someone, but if they have sufficiently provoked me
I don't want to play with them ... I want to bury them, destroy their
guild, rob their house, kill their pet dog .... etc... etc..
*grins*
Corwin
Corwin of Amber (SBR/LS, WE/ATL)
>right now primarily because most of the other PvP stuff I've done is
>so loaded down with bullshit that a lot of the time it just isn't
>worth it.
Do you duel for loot or no loot? Rules? or no rules?
One thing I like about wide-open warfair is that sure you can go out
with your DP Katana of Vanq, and your Chain of Invuln and kick some
serious ass ... but if your opponents catch on - you won't have it
long.
Reflect items are awesome pvp tools, but they are banned from most
duels ... and why in the world would you waste one in a duel?
Anyway, sorry the order/chaos stuff has degraded on your shard. It's
been down and just a bit up lately on LS. But Brandy and I still have
a blast going out and taking on what we can find. The two of us
eventually killed 4 chaos even with their 2 blue healers last night.
Best way is to fight with a team, and use UOAM so everyone knows where
everyone else is.
Corwin
Quaestor
> yes, learn how to pvp loser. Its the only equalizer mages have against
> a good pure warrior. Quit whining and learn some game.
.plonk.
Quaestor
> I can't belive people are still whining about PK's!!!
I can believe you are whining. So far you have made 3 posts, bitching all the
way. Sine you are new here, you obviously haven't killfiled half of the
posters, so you may get the idea that this childish prattle is considered
normal and respecable here. It's not.
I'll delete the rest of you current posts from my list and see if you can do
any better tomorrow (it may just be Friday the 13th got to you).
Have a nice day.
Otara
> I sort of doubt that, precasting really isn't all that common a
>technique... Outside of mage duels, I rarely see it. Sort of depends
>on what sort of crowd you're hanging with I guess...
Well even I used to use it, and I'm not exactly a PvP god. People also used to
use it on Napa all the time to move Poison Elementals around by having a
'nofail' teleport ready. Another way thats a bit cheaty IMO. Or 'creative'.
Naming is such fun.
Otara
Yuri Gorlinski
>
>I'll delete the rest of you current posts from my list and see if you can do
>any better tomorrow (it may just be Friday the 13th got to you).
This seems uncharacteristically tolerant... Killfile full?
Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
Yuri Gorlinski
>
>Well even I used to use it, and I'm not exactly a PvP god. People also used to
>use it on Napa all the time to move Poison Elementals around by having a
>'nofail' teleport ready. Another way thats a bit cheaty IMO.
Ahh, I believe you are now confusing precasting with simple casting
and holding of a spell. Precasting refers specifically to the sequence
Damocles described at the top of this thread -- cast, swing, target. If
there's no melee attack sandwiched in there, it's not precasting, it's
just casting and holding.
I don't mean to split hairs, but we're obviously talking about different
things. When I say that precasting is only really useful in one-on-one
mage duels, I'm talking about real precasting, with the melee attack in
the middle. Obviously casting and running is a far more common technique
which is useful in a wide range of situations. Mages would be pretty
well screwed if they couldn't do that IMO.
Additionally, one thing that everyone seems to be overlooking is that
precasting also has some important defensive uses. I use precast Greater
Heal spells in my duels when I see a lot of damage coming -- just get the
spell set, sneak in an attack or two, then drop the heal when I need it.
Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
Yuri Gorlinski
>
>Do you duel for loot or no loot? Rules? or no rules?
Our informal duels usually have the following rules -- no looting,
no potions or poisoned blades, no paralyze, and no unbalancing magical
items (it's always amusing when someone shows up with a supremely
accurate katana of vanquishing for a 'friendly' duel).
There are plenty of variations you can go with though. Mr. Chips is
currently working on setting up a series of guild/group duels, 4-on-4
or something, and I believe these are going to allow full looting,
potions, poisoned blades, para, whatever. Anything goes.
>One thing I like about wide-open warfair is that sure you can go out
>with your DP Katana of Vanq, and your Chain of Invuln and kick some
>serious ass ... but if your opponents catch on - you won't have it
>long.
Yep. And open combat has more potential for interesting dynamics
like your daemon-para-invis thing from the other night... I just get
tired of dodging gangbangs all the time.
>Reflect items are awesome pvp tools, but they are banned from most
>duels ... and why in the world would you waste one in a duel?
Heh. You wouldn't. 8)
>Anyway, sorry the order/chaos stuff has degraded on your shard. It's
>been down and just a bit up lately on LS. But Brandy and I still have
>a blast going out and taking on what we can find. The two of us
>eventually killed 4 chaos even with their 2 blue healers last night.
Fighting through superior numbers and blue healers is incredibly
satisfying, when you can pull it off. Some of the guilds we fought on
Sonoma were just so pathetic though... The order guild POP averages
like three blues healers for every legitimate combatant.
I've actually been thinking of getting involved in the order/chaos
thing on Atlantic sometime, my warrior there would be ideally suited
for town combat. My order/chaos gimp on Sonoma was always a little
underpowered as he's a fairly new character, and the only guild that
would ever really fight us, the Black Dragon brotherhood, is full of
6X and 7X GMs, so it would be fun going at it on more equal terms.
But Sonoma and SP are still drawing the majority of my attention, and
I haven't had much luck finding decent guilds on Atlantic.
>Best way is to fight with a team, and use UOAM so everyone knows where
>everyone else is.
We use UOMap instead, tried UOAM first but it was causing some
performance issues.
Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
Otara
>>Well even I used to use it, and I'm not exactly a PvP god. People also used to
>>use it on Napa all the time to move Poison Elementals around by having a
>>'nofail' teleport ready. Another way thats a bit cheaty IMO.
>
> Ahh, I believe you are now confusing precasting with simple casting
>and holding of a spell. Precasting refers specifically to the sequence
>Damocles described at the top of this thread -- cast, swing, target. If
>there's no melee attack sandwiched in there, it's not precasting, it's
>just casting and holding.
Ah - okey doke. Well, they're both problems based on the same issue IMO :).
> Obviously casting and running is a far more common technique
>which is useful in a wide range of situations. Mages would be pretty
>well screwed if they couldn't do that IMO.
Maybe. On the other hand it gives them an awfully powerful one-hit ranged
attack weapon as a starting gambit.
> Additionally, one thing that everyone seems to be overlooking is that
>precasting also has some important defensive uses. I use precast Greater
>Heal spells in my duels when I see a lot of damage coming -- just get the
>spell set, sneak in an attack or two, then drop the heal when I need it.
Which helps me in a dungeon from PK's not at all - can certainly see its uses
for planned fights.
Otara
Adam Burr
Naw, I just usually hunt with friends who are foolish enough to jump on
the way. Plus, I had hit Adept mage before I had even noticed that you
could cast and move and then release. Ok, I was oblivious, but so I rarely
think of the tactic.
I tend to think in terms of world building before I think in terms of
balance, then I correct. Perhaps not being able to run is a bit extreme.
In fact, given the way you can get stuck on birds, bushes, and other silly
things in the woods at the least, keeping the ability to run isn't a bad
trade off.
Whatever- I'm just making suggestions. For the record, I can't wait for AI
changes that make standing behind a rock implausible.
Madman Across the Water
Yuri Gorlinski
>
>Which helps me in a dungeon from PK's not at all - can certainly see its uses
>for planned fights.
If you want, I suppose I could tell you how to survive against PKs in
dungeons... But then I would have to kill you.
Lord Ssu-ma Shih-ka'i
Otara
I've read an awful lot of advice on these issues already thanks, some bits I
use, some I dont. Some just arent appropriate to laggies for a start, and some
just mean I might as well start PvPing and be done with it.
Otara
back to 350's - sigh
yo...@akorn.net
What modern (and obviously buggy) newsreaders do not manage to keep a
thread together through a subject change?
> On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:28:02 GMT, gpf...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >yes, learn how to pvp loser. Its the only equalizer mages have against
> >a good pure warrior. Quit whining and learn some game.
> >
>
Austin
>On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:56:13, phae...@yahoo.com (Damocles) wrote:
>
>What modern (and obviously buggy) newsreaders do not manage to keep a
>thread together through a subject change?
Agent. And for calling them buggy, you could be subject to libel or
slander.
>> On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:28:02 GMT, gpf...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>
>> >yes, learn how to pvp loser. Its the only equalizer mages have against
>> >a good pure warrior. Quit whining and learn some game.
>> >
>>
>> Another web board refugee rears his ugly head. Learn to post in a
>> newsgroup, halfwit, if you want your opinions to be heard. Don't
>> change the subject header, it creates a new thread under most
>> newsreader configurations.
>>
>
>
Austin of Siege Perilous
When I've captured my adversary and he says, "Look, before you kill me, will you at least tell me what this is all about?" I'll say, "No." and shoot him. No, on second thought I'll shoot him then say "No."
Dundee
> On 17 Aug 1999 19:52:06 GMT, yo...@akorn.net wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:56:13, phae...@yahoo.com (Damocles) wrote:
> >
> >What modern (and obviously buggy) newsreaders do not manage to keep a
> >thread together through a subject change?
>
> Agent. And for calling them buggy, you could be subject to libel or
> slander.
It's an option in Agent actually. Thread by subject for newsgroups in
which posters generally don't change the subject unless they are
changing the subject of the post, and thread by message-ID for
newsgroups plagued by web-board chuckleheads who think it's a
technological breakthrough that they can stick the entire message in
the subject-line.
Green17
news:Cy3TF3WgfDS3-pn2-B28JRM4cWdN7@localhost...
> On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:56:13, phae...@yahoo.com (Damocles) wrote:
>
> What modern (and obviously buggy) newsreaders do not manage to keep a
> thread together through a subject change?
Outlook Express 5.0 can't even manage it a lot of the time. It's not
ancient, but I'll grant you that it's buggy as hell.
yo...@akorn.net
> On Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:05:57 GMT, 007...@direct.ca (Austin) wrote:
>
> > On 17 Aug 1999 19:52:06 GMT, yo...@akorn.net wrote:
> >
> > >On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:56:13, phae...@yahoo.com (Damocles) wrote:
> > >
> > >What modern (and obviously buggy) newsreaders do not manage to keep a
> > >thread together through a subject change?
> >
> > Agent. And for calling them buggy, you could be subject to libel or
> > slander.
>
> It's an option in Agent actually. Thread by subject for newsgroups in
> which posters generally don't change the subject unless they are
> changing the subject of the post, and thread by message-ID for
> newsgroups plagued by web-board chuckleheads who think it's a
> technological breakthrough that they can stick the entire message in
> the subject-line.
Threading by subject is a bad idea anyhow. Even if the subject
manages not to change the order of followups is likely to be screwy
(or nonexistant). Now your average webboarder has about as much sense
as your common houseplant, but they should really be attacked for the
content (or lack of) of their messages and not for making life hard on
people using misconfigured (or buggy) newreaders :P
yo...@akorn.net
> >What modern (and obviously buggy) newsreaders do not manage to keep a
> >thread together through a subject change?
>
> Agent. And for calling them buggy, you could be subject to libel or
> slander.
Only if there are no bugs :P