Review of UO / Check it out
Linflas
Wow, pretty much right on the mark for the problems but I hope its not to
late for UO to be saved. Hopefully OSI can look at some of this as very
constructive criticism and further rachet up their efforts to catch and ban
the cheaters and exploiters.
don
(Linflas & Syra LS shard)
Ly...@mindspring.com (Lynn) writes:
>check this out: Review of UO
>http://www.cdmag.com/Home/home.html?article=/articles/014/141/local_echo.html
<snip>
>--
>* LadyLyn,
> (no address, no mail)
>* Once burned twice remembered *
--
"God has created the cat to give man the pleasure of carressing the tiger"
Theophile Gautier
sp...@netcom.com Linflas Dragon
==(UDIC)==
The Master
> Why OSI's great social experiment is doomed
> worst in many of us. At least, I fervently hope this is so. The idea
> that the liars, cheats and mean-spirited beings of Ultima Online are
> reflecting the true natures of those playing them... well, lock your
> doors at night, folks, because your neighbors are truly scum.
The failure of this piece is that it treats "us" all the same. It says that I am
a scum, a thief, anti-social. It says that because everyone else failed to quit
the game, forcing OS to change it, that I am guilty.
People are not all alike. That is what creates the conflict. Some see UO as an
arcade shoot-em-up, some as a way to piss on other people, some as an adventure
game, some as an alternate job and home life, etc.
The real trouble, and there is no way to be nice about this, is that Raph Koster
wants a game that favors pk'ing. He will not move significantly away from this.
So the game is dominated by a few who cannot, will not com up with anything
better to do that attack other players. Raph does not want houses to be secure,
certainly one of the most important aspects of anyone's life, and so we cannot
have security. Raph does not want a lot of things that the majority of us want.
And so we will not have them. Eventually, neither will he, when the last player
leaves, but he just will not see that far into the future.
Richard Cortese
I know the article was meant to reflect the things that are wrong with
UO & does so very accurately, but the funny thing is every once in a
while I think about the positive things. For instance, if you ever
wanted to know how you would react if there was a complete break down of
society, just run a chr in UO.
I am supprised by the number of people still trying to commit random
acts of niceness. Absolutly nothing can be gained by being kind, honest,
funny, or generous in the game, but still there are a large number of
people doing these activities.
Damocles
>
>UO is something many of us "could" have stayed with for years.
>Poor planning, design, programming, and lack of support for the
>customer has doomed it. They cant change the "planning, design,
>or programming, now, and it may be too late even IF they decided
>to start supporting the customer.
It's always kind of amusing how people who quit keep on coming around
trying to justify why they quit and how everyone else is going to
inevitably do the same thing.
Gresh
>acts of niceness. Absolutly nothing can be gained by being kind, honest,
>funny, or generous in the game, but still there are a large number of
>people doing these activities.
I am one. Why? Hmmmm. I think that there is a lot to gain by doing
"good" in the game. It's fun and satisfying.
Most of us like to be liked, myself included, and it is satisfying to
do something for someone and have them thank you, and better yet
remember you, and better still have them turn around and do the same
for someone else.
It's especially satisfying to intervene in an encounter between a bad
guy and some naive semi-newbie, which is what I've been doing lately
in Rat/Orc/Troll/Spawn Valley.
I've been told "it's really great to play with a guy like you" more
than a few times in the past few weeks. That warm and fuzzy feeling -
and finding others that I myself can say the same about - is why I do
it.
Gresh, Catskills
Cat
service.
Customer service?? LOL ....They don't know the meaning! Here is the
normal routine as to how they want us to handle a problem.
1- Call a counselor (they are players who are usually pkers and have a
biased opinion. Requirements: Anyone under the age of 15-<hehe>...and
half the time they have to either ask someone on their end for help or
tell you to contact a GM=Game MASTER! <--whoa..everyone get ready to
bow!
2- Call a GM-- Now these guys get a paycheck from Origin, unlike the
volunteering pkers...er I mean counselors. If any of you have ever
contacted one, you will know that their position could be easily
replaced with computer generated answers. They have yet to help in any
situation and are usually pkers themselves and their buddies are the
pking counselors. (Which by the way, if you think of it....will come on
as counselor to resolve a problem with which THEY THEMSELVES were
involved in as the pking, exploiting player!...now THAT'S slick!-) I've
seen it happen.
3- E-Mail at Sup...@owo.com- This is usually the furthest anyone can
get with a complaint and the most humorous in a feeble attempt to get a
problem, bug, exploiter, or harassment resolved. Anyone out there who's
tried has gotten back their standard form of, "Hail fellow adventurer,
we are sorry to hear of your problem. We will look into it." LOL
Harassment complaints have received that reply with no actual results.
Like one Counselor "RON" told me, "They have 100k people playing this
game, do you really think that they're going to care if a small handful
quit?" as he laughed along with his pking buddies. It's all a joke to
them. And why not? People are here to play a game and have fun. Most
are of a young age group. So, who here is really going to push it? OSI
takes advantage of that fact. It's a "grab the money and run" situation
here with no concern what-so-ever about customer service only what new
features can we add to get more kids to grab their parents' credit cards
and join up.
4- Oh, almost forgot, a complaint can also be made to Origin located in
Texas at (512-434-4357). To which I and others have done. Not only are
we told the same pat answer, "we will look into it" and then nothing is
done, but and here's the funny part, the messege says, please wait for
or next available operator. LOL ...the same guy CRAIG answers the phone
line every time we have called!! ROFLMAO Give it try sometime when
Ultima throws up one of their chronic daily apologies for some kind of
BUG fix and see for yourself!
Hmm.. a lot of people might say why don't you just quit if you don't
like it. Okay.... BUT, does that resolve the problems going on with no
hopes of getting anything resolved? I'm afraid counselor "RON" was
right. OSI couldn't care less. They thrive on aimless kids to continue
playing and anyone with common sense to just quit. I have had better
luck resolving problems which occurred in European countries than I have
with OSI.
And, If any of you remember back far enough when Ultima first came out,
they used a selling point for their product that "Ultima will be a one
time pay of $9.95 a month, you will never need to pay extra for updates,
add-ons etc. like those other games!" Well I think "UO: The Second Age"
is about to contradict this empty promise!
You can keep playing if these things don't bother you...but remember,
they're raking in thousands and thousands of dollars every day with no
attention their customers' concerns. Speak out! Make that call !
Do you really want to continue paying into a company that is laughing
all the way to the bank?
If so, you are either under 15 yrs of age or depend on others to protect
you from injustices.
Cat
The Master
> I am supprised by the number of people still trying to commit random
> acts of niceness. Absolutly nothing can be gained by being kind, honest,
> funny, or generous in the game, but still there are a large number of
> people doing these activities.
Nadare, trying to look as japanese as possible, is in ringmail (ok, ring of
guarding, with ring sleeves of fornication), dark brown thigh boots (to cover his
chain legs), and no helmet (since there is none that looks even remotely japanese),
and is normally armed with just a bow. I like his looks, but several people have
said he looks like a newbie. Oh well. If it keeps them from realizing he has a
bardiche of might, and katana of power, and is going to hit them with enough arrows
to build a house, that's fine.
I was messing around in an area where full orc spawns happen, and one happened.
Nadare is not ready to face this kind of power alone, especially since orc magi can
now turn people into toads. I scampered off to where a group of middling
adventurers were and warned them, then helped receive the attack. I got caught by
the numbers and had a hard time getting loose for a bit, took a lot of damage, and
finally got clear enough to cast a bit BaMaTU! I then took an ebolt, and recalled
out with NO health showing.
I checked my journal and it was one of the adventurers who had said Corp Por just
before I got hit. I got Quaestor out of bed and went back there.
Quaestor is an imposing figure, all in black armor and cloak on a white horse.
People have been known to change their names and move to cleveland at the sight of
him. <snicker> I found them splashing around with a water elemental, and quietly
waited. The quiet certainly adds to the mystique.
When they were finished, one asked me what was on my mind. I said, "Nadare is my
other character. You attacked him up there. I want to know why." The one who had
said Corp Por had a HXBow armed, so I armed one too.
I got discalimers, explanations, and announcements that these guys were definitely
anti-pk. They had not attacked me. OK, the journal had not showed me getting a
warning that they were attacking me, and one of them had just apparently had an
ebolt reflect off someone and hit him (not the castor), and this seemed like a
possible explanation. I said, "Alright, I'll accept that. Good luck to you." And
rode away.
I suspect I did more to convince these guys to stay on a Good Guy course by these
actions than any other possible positive outcome. They got the lesson that the
wimpy character is not so wimpy, and he may just have a big brother come beat them
up. Fact is, Quaestor would have had little chance against them, but it's all
about image, and expectations, and (I insist) it's about being Right.
When Quaestor found a newbie (newbie hatchet, clothes, eratic movement, slowness to
start chopping because he didn't know where The Spot is on some trees, yeah a
newbie) hacking his way through the forest, and rode up and dumped a few logs on
him, saying "Here." (I was through chopping for the day and wanted to be rid of the
leftovers), he must have almost crapped. He finally got out a "thanks." as I rode
away.
Most such encounters are a lot more friendly, now that I have the confidence born
of the power to survive and even fight back, and can afford to try and be
friendly. In the early days, every encounter was Run or Die.
Sun Tzu 24
> ring sleeves of fornication
Damn I gotta get me some of those...bet the chick dig 'em.::grin::
Disclaimer: The above statements are all in fun .
Richard Cortese
> guarding, with ring sleeves of fornication),
Wow! Freudian satire! A new genre.
The Master
> The Master <NOSPAM_masters@NOSPAM_uswest.net> wrote:
>
> >I suspect I did more to convince these guys to stay on a Good Guy course by these
> >actions than any other possible positive outcome. They got the lesson that the
> >wimpy character is not so wimpy, and he may just have a big brother come beat them
> >up. Fact is, Quaestor would have had little chance against them, but it's all
> >about image, and expectations, and (I insist) it's about being Right.
>
> Spoken like a true knight ;)
>
> Boomer
Thank you.
Raph Koster
The Master wrote:
> The real trouble, and there is no way to be nice about this, is that Raph Koster
> wants a game that favors pk'ing. He will not move significantly away from this.
This is just plain wrong, and I am tired of hearing it. :P
-DD
Garion, GL
:)
>snip<
Harold Roberson
>
> The Master wrote:
>
> > The real trouble, and there is no way to be nice about this, is that Raph Koster
> > wants a game that favors pk'ing. He will not move significantly away from this.
>
> This is just plain wrong, and I am tired of hearing it. :P
>
> -DD
It's designed that way. You're the Lead Designer. It could be your
intentions are different that the results, and I'll grant you that
much, but you also don't seem intent upon fixing said "broken"
results.
1 - 1 free murder every 8 hours of play. This is ASSNINE. I
understand your reasoning behind it, but it's implemented
wrong. I could see 24 hours of game time, and at 3 kills
you are a Murderer. At murderer, it changes to 48 hours
of game time to undo a kill. Perhaps #2 below would
eliminate some of it too...
2 - Players are killed for their LOOT. Let them destroy a percentage
upon being Murdered. Let them choose what to destroy.
3 - I don't want a PK switch. I actually agree with you there.
4 - Make the penalties for real murderers a bit more harsh than
having to macro their skills/stats back up for a day.
The Master
> The Master wrote:
>
> > The real trouble, and there is no way to be nice about this, is that Raph Koster
> > wants a game that favors pk'ing. He will not move significantly away from this.
>
> This is just plain wrong, and I am tired of hearing it. :P
So many times you've said so, and yet your actions speak otherwise.
I am doing you the courtesy of speaking honestly and bluntly, so that you can know the
truth. Please take it for what it is, a genuine attempt to improve things.
For instance, pking is clearly still rampant. Slaughtering of newbies on the roads is
back to a full time business. You have the power to put more presure to bear in short
order, increasing the penalties, reducing the murder limit, simple data changes that
should take minutes, and we sit here and wait. What reason could you possibly have
for not acting? I'd like to believe you, but reallity forces me to do otherwise.
You once expressed interest in item destruction, to remove the profit motive for
pking. Yet time goes on and we hear nothing. Not even being considered, it seems.
We appreciate your finally taking one meaningful measure to curb bank thieves (no
ressing crim-flagged), though some still operate, forcing us to still be 100%
dedicated to detecting them, avoiding them, thwarting them, and recovering from the
losses. More steps in this direction are needed. Make snooping a crime, make the
thief turn gray to EVERYONE as soon as a witness hollers for guards, return stollen
items, and put in place a death limit (with perhaps a slow (23 hours + [1*number of
deaths]) burnoff of counts?), so they cannot just regard megadeaths as part of the
job. Reduce thieving to a part of the game instead of The Game, so we can do
something besides dodge them, and we will be a great deal happier.
Regarding all the serious problems, you have always acted with too little too late.
You're no fool, you know what it takes to make improvements. ACT and we can believe
you want us to be happy, and to stay with this game. Don't, and we must believe it is
because you want us to suffer the problems which the current situation puts on us.
The Master
> Raph Koster wrote:
> >
> > The Master wrote:
> >
> > > The real trouble, and there is no way to be nice about this, is that Raph Koster
> > > wants a game that favors pk'ing. He will not move significantly away from this.
> >
> > This is just plain wrong, and I am tired of hearing it. :P
> >
> > -DD
> The problem is actions vs. words. The game is hugely pro Pkilling.
> It's designed that way. You're the Lead Designer. It could be your
> intentions are different that the results, and I'll grant you that
> much, but you also don't seem intent upon fixing said "broken"
> results.
>
> 1 - 1 free murder every 8 hours of play. This is ASSNINE. I
> understand your reasoning behind it, but it's implemented
> wrong. I could see 24 hours of game time, and at 3 kills
> you are a Murderer. At murderer, it changes to 48 hours
> of game time to undo a kill. Perhaps #2 below would
> eliminate some of it too...
> 2 - Players are killed for their LOOT. Let them destroy a percentage
> upon being Murdered. Let them choose what to destroy.
> 3 - I don't want a PK switch. I actually agree with you there.
> 4 - Make the penalties for real murderers a bit more harsh than
> having to macro their skills/stats back up for a day.
You see, DD, mine is not the only sweet voice of reason telling you these things. In
fact we have quite a choire.
Corwyn
>
> The Master wrote:
>
> > The real trouble, and there is no way to be nice about this, is that Raph Koster
> > wants a game that favors pk'ing. He will not move significantly away from this.
>
> This is just plain wrong, and I am tired of hearing it. :P
>
> -DD
I agree as I think you have made it clear that this is not the case.
There is a big difference between having pking in the game and
favoring it. There are some players for who any degree of pking
is too much though... not sure what the answer is here......
Why is pking necessary? Well... more then anything else my conclusion
has become its the uncertaintly it introduces. In the game monsters,
to a certain extent are predictable. Players know what they can
and can't beat and usually, strangely enough, stick with what they
can beat. Pking does add that sense of uncontrollable danger to the
game. I'd much prefer more of that came from the monsters in the game
but till then pks fill that role to some extent.
In some ways the casual killers are more of a problem but I can
live with that since I can kill them myself :)
I have heard that some GMs play as pks though. Even if they have
no special abilities I would think they should be restrcited from
such actions. Just seems wrong.
Corwyn
Flame Wall and Blade Spirit. FF seems better since creatures are less
likey to stand in the flame forever. But its the whole idea... I see
people standing behind sacks casting these various spells.. the only
time they ever die is when pks show up or they mess up there EV. This
is adventure? About as exciting as hauling in fish with a net and t yet
because it is profitable they do it. You don't see a large group
charaging a dragon you see a couple guys ev or blade it to death....
let creatures mvoe the sacks or maybe port over them occasionally.
Maybe let them lift sacks but have a delay and allow it to be interupted
by hits. OR maybe out some better items on the creatures we CAN
fight. building sack forts is neat in one way but not if they are
unassailable forts....
John Wagner
: One big compaint I have with the game is the use of Energy Vortex,
: Flame Wall and Blade Spirit. FF seems better since creatures are less
: likey to stand in the flame forever. But its the whole idea... I see
: people standing behind sacks casting these various spells.. the only
: time they ever die is when pks show up or they mess up there EV. This
: is adventure? About as exciting as hauling in fish with a net and t yet
: because it is profitable they do it. You don't see a large group
: charaging a dragon you see a couple guys ev or blade it to death....
: let creatures mvoe the sacks or maybe port over them occasionally.
: Maybe let them lift sacks but have a delay and allow it to be interupted
: by hits. OR maybe out some better items on the creatures we CAN
can pickup sacks and giant size creatures can simply ignore or stepover
items with less than say a hight of 11. Thus help in Wrong with the
sandbaggers who harvest the ettins and trolls.
A second is to have all creatures be able to throw things.
Thus they can pick up and throw a chest etc at their targets.
Moonbat
Dundee
wrote:
>because it is profitable they do it. You don't see a large group
>charaging a dragon you see a couple guys ev or blade it to death....
>let creatures mvoe the sacks or maybe port over them occasionally.
So that large groups can be looted to death by the game bastards that
run through Destard.
>fight. building sack forts is neat in one way but not if they are
>unassailable forts....
The flour-bag/box of stuff thing will be going away. I think the Big
Nasty Critters should have the brains to not only dispell EV's and
BS's, but target the person that cast the things, too.
Course it doesn't matter so much since you can RA them and freeze them
in place.
--
Dundee of Lake Superior - Skep...@SPAMISantisocial.com
Townstone proposal, Housing proposal and Other Stuff:
http://dundee.uong.com
Drake
is a sore subject with me. Hanging up a dozen terathan's (ya, im in beta,
diff names same idea), and firefielding them is fun in that it's tactical
conquest over your opponents and not brute force. This tactical, trapping
and killing is what still keeps UO fresh for me. Now, I'm not talking about
flour bagging an orc spawn to the side of the house for archery practice.
I'm talking about the use of natural obstacles - which for me is the next
step beyond the placement of man-made obstacles (flour sacks/chests) to trap
and help deal with boss/large spawn monsters.
And quite frankly, while we're on the EV/BS kick, I suppose some would love
to see magery ripped completely out of the game, but as a GM Mage, who came
by it the hardway...I'm actually a little pissed off that at the 8th circle
I couldn't pretty much take out a whole city if I wanted to. That's okay,
I'll settle with dime-a-dozen monsters that can dispel my 8th circle
summonings in between the magic arrows they shoot at me - with no more
effort than the blink of an eye.
As this is written, I believe latest word is that this monster dispelling
frenzy is being addressed, as it damned well should be.
In the interest of roleplay and all things "real". What's the chance of a
bottom dwelling red mage, (see despise), at tops an expert/adept magery
level (probably being a bit generous here judging by their aresnal)
immediately dispelling the Energy Vortex from hell the grandmaster magician
just summoned to dispel his butt??
Relax, seriously.
I've heard these flour bagging accidents can turn pretty ugly and more often
than not, sort themselves out. Have you ever seen anyone pick them up when
they're done???
Think about it.
<g>
Corwyn wrote in message <362227C5...@interlog.com>...
>One big compaint I have with the game is the use of Energy Vortex,
>Flame Wall and Blade Spirit. FF seems better since creatures are less
>likey to stand in the flame forever. But its the whole idea... I see
>people standing behind sacks casting these various spells.. the only
>time they ever die is when pks show up or they mess up there EV. This
>is adventure? About as exciting as hauling in fish with a net and t yet
>because it is profitable they do it. You don't see a large group
>charaging a dragon you see a couple guys ev or blade it to death....
>let creatures mvoe the sacks or maybe port over them occasionally.
>
>Maybe let them lift sacks but have a delay and allow it to be interupted
>by hits. OR maybe out some better items on the creatures we CAN
Jaquar
wrote:
>And quite frankly, while we're on the EV/BS kick, I suppose some would love
>to see magery ripped completely out of the game, but as a GM Mage, who came
>by it the hardway...I'm actually a little pissed off that at the 8th circle
>I couldn't pretty much take out a whole city if I wanted to. That's okay,
>I'll settle with dime-a-dozen monsters that can dispel my 8th circle
>summonings in between the magic arrows they shoot at me - with no more
>effort than the blink of an eye.
I have to agree with you here. I just made GM Mage a week ago and it
is sort of sad that the 8th circle is null right now. Sure I can
resurect and sure I can energy vortex someone but the rest of the
spells do nothing for me. Energy Vortex should be practical against
something other than players, unfortunately it isn't.
A Grandmaster Mage should be an awesome force, right now they aren't
much tough than a mage in the 70's.
>As this is written, I believe latest word is that this monster dispelling
>frenzy is being addressed, as it damned well should be.
>
>In the interest of roleplay and all things "real". What's the chance of a
>bottom dwelling red mage, (see despise), at tops an expert/adept magery
>level (probably being a bit generous here judging by their aresnal)
>immediately dispelling the Energy Vortex from hell the grandmaster magician
>just summoned to dispel his butt??
*nods* Sad isn't it? Seems the only use we have for EV is attacking
other players.
I wanted to make a comment on flour bags while I am at it. Everyone
will probably step up and call me a prick but if I see an area that is
flour bagged, I pick them all up and drop them on a monster corpse.
Jaquar - Lake Superior
Grandmaster Warrior (Isn't everyone?)
Sign the Player Name petition!
http://www.huneyvaughn.com/tmaez/petition.htm
Raph Koster
The Master wrote:
> Raph Koster wrote:
>
> > The Master wrote:
> >
> > > The real trouble, and there is no way to be nice about this, is that Raph Koster
> > > wants a game that favors pk'ing. He will not move significantly away from this.
> >
> > This is just plain wrong, and I am tired of hearing it. :P
>
> So many times you've said so, and yet your actions speak otherwise.
>
> I am doing you the courtesy of speaking honestly and bluntly, so that you can know the
> truth. Please take it for what it is, a genuine attempt to improve things.
>
> For instance, pking is clearly still rampant.
According to whom? You and Lynn and a few dozen others? I reiterate for the umpteenth
time: not everyone agreed with you. In fact, I get far MORE complaints that there's too
LITTLE PKing than I get that there is too much. My own play experience does not accord
with yours. Neither does that of anyone else on the dev team. Nonetheless we continue to
take measures to reduce it. Carefully, slowly, with just a measure here and a measure
there, yes, not a wholesale reduction. But I think those arguing this on this newsgroup
need to accept that rampant pkilling is NOT a complaint of a huge section of the
playerbase at the moment. House breakins, yes. Thieves, yes. Foul character names, yes.
But not rampant murder.
> You once expressed interest in item destruction, to remove the profit motive for
> pking. Yet time goes on and we hear nothing. Not even being considered, it seems.
>
Yes, being considered. A few other things do happen to be on my task list, however. Some
of them are even (horrors) higher up on the priority list. How you arrive at "not being
considered" after I've already stated on this newsgroup that it's on the list, I don't
know.
> We appreciate your finally taking one meaningful measure to curb bank thieves (no
> ressing crim-flagged), though some still operate, forcing us to still be 100%
> dedicated to detecting them, avoiding them, thwarting them, and recovering from the
> losses.
100%? You are REALLY not playing the same game I am. :P
> More steps in this direction are needed. Make snooping a crime, make the
> thief turn gray to EVERYONE as soon as a witness hollers for guards, return stollen
> items, and put in place a death limit (with perhaps a slow (23 hours + [1*number of
> deaths]) burnoff of counts?), so they cannot just regard megadeaths as part of the
> job. Reduce thieving to a part of the game instead of The Game, so we can do
> something besides dodge them, and we will be a great deal happier.
>
Returning stolen items is on the list for the next update.
-DD
Canticle
> According to whom? You and Lynn and a few dozen others? I reiterate for the umpteenth
> time: not everyone agreed with you. In fact, I get far MORE complaints that there's too
Even I agree with Raph here...to a point. PKing is no where near as
rampant as it used to be, but it is now more a problem, IMHO. Whereas
before, you could be reasonably sure that that band of Blue folks was
not going to kill you out of hand, and that that pack of 40 red ones
would, now you have no idea who you are safe around.
If you really want to finish off rampany pking once and for all, erase
everyone's murder count, then give them 2. 2 murders, and on the 3rd,
you're a murderer. And instead of 8 hours, make it 24, and hours as a
ghost do NOT count. In that way, people like me will still take revenge
on a blue who is being a jerk, as most of the time we are NOT killing
other players, and those who try to be the Blue PKs will find it so
counterproductive as to find another game to be jerks in, or adapt and
become more sociable.
> playerbase at the moment. House breakins, yes. Thieves, yes. Foul character names, yes.
> But not rampant murder.
This, I agree on.
Jeff-boy
Dundee
>> playerbase at the moment. House breakins, yes. Thieves, yes. Foul character names, yes.
>> But not rampant murder.
>
>This, I agree on.
I'd agree too, but on the other hand, I haven't been to PK-spots in a
while. There seemed to be an awful *lot* of them not so long ago, but
lately I've been in places they don't often go.
Counting the guys that steal from you when you're blue, run into your
BS or FF and attack you, though... there are a LOT of killers still
out there.
I think taking the fame requirements away from the Order/Chaos wars
has helped the most. Hard to really tell though, since LS has been
snarfed-up pretty much ever since then.
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
>much tough than a mage in the 70's.
BWAHAHAHAHA!
Repeat that after you've landed a 40pt EB on a Mage with Master Resist
or after your next 50pt heal ;P
Corwin Of Amber (too many GM's to type)
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
Paul A. Sheldon
*** SNIP ***
: According to whom? You and Lynn and a few dozen others? I reiterate for the umpteenth
: time: not everyone agreed with you. In fact, I get far MORE complaints that there's too
: LITTLE PKing than I get that there is too much. My own play experience does not accord
: with yours. Neither does that of anyone else on the dev team. Nonetheless we continue to
: take measures to reduce it. Carefully, slowly, with just a measure here and a measure
: there, yes, not a wholesale reduction. But I think those arguing this on this newsgroup
: need to accept that rampant pkilling is NOT a complaint of a huge section of the
: playerbase at the moment. House breakins, yes. Thieves, yes. Foul character names, yes.
: But not rampant murder.
*** SNIP ***
I've only played this game for three weeks. I really like it.
But the above comment strikes me as incredibly myopic. Anyone
who takes an honest look at this game for more than 5 minutes
can see that pk'ing is rampant. There may be some debate as to
whether this is a good thing, but I find it absolutely impossible
to believe that any sane person could describe it as anything
other than rampant. From my perspective, it is the mainstay of this
game.
Don't see it? Travel with me for a day. Walk out the Trinsic
west gate. Walk along any coast. Walk anywhere *near* Brittania.
Walk through any dungeon. Walk through orc valley. Try to mine
in a popular spot.
And I'm not talking about the "roleplaying pk'er" (has anyone
ever seen such a thing?). No, I'm talking about the "hehehe"ing
Lord Beavis's that infest this game like lice. They are so common
it is tiring. If I see "hehe" or "wtf" one more time, I'll scream.
I've only actually *been* pk'ed three times. I've had about
50 or so attempts. It's the loss of game time from recalling and
the loss of "atmosphere" by being attacked by "THE BUNGHOLE" or
"U SUK", etc. that hurts this game the most.
--
Paul A. Sheldon "Everyone has to sacrifice at the altar
gan...@mcs.net of stupidity from time to time."
-- A. Einstein
Sophist
rko...@origin.ea.com says...
>
> According to whom? You and Lynn and a few dozen others? I reiterate for the umpteenth
> time: not everyone agreed with you. In fact, I get far MORE complaints that there's too
> LITTLE PKing than I get that there is too much. My own play experience does not accord
> with yours. Neither does that of anyone else on the dev team. Nonetheless we continue to
> take measures to reduce it. Carefully, slowly, with just a measure here and a measure
> there, yes, not a wholesale reduction. But I think those arguing this on this newsgroup
> need to accept that rampant pkilling is NOT a complaint of a huge section of the
> playerbase at the moment. House breakins, yes. Thieves, yes. Foul character names, yes.
> But not rampant murder.
I would certainly agree with this statement. I don't think
Pking is rampant any more. It was back in December when I
cancelled my account (that's why I cancelled it actually).
Since the recent reputation patch (that's why I started
another account :)), however, things are much improved and I
wouldn't say PK'n is in any way "rampant."
I do think your comments above make a wonderful argument for
a switch. If you want to increase PvP in a functional and
effective way, a switch is the answer. The PvP aspect of the
game would become very functional for those presently
playing murderers or NPK's...or those simply looking for a
PvP element. At the same time those not wanting that type of
gaming can easily and effectively avoid it. To pursue any
other course will invariably irk one side or the other. The
odd part is, as we've seen from the recent discussion on the
switch, I have yet to see an argument against it that a)
holds water, or b) is in any way worse than the present
course the game is on.
Sophist
Canticle
> I think taking the fame requirements away from the Order/Chaos wars
> has helped the most. Hard to really tell though, since LS has been
> snarfed-up pretty much ever since then.
DEFNITELY.
All the hard core PvPers are now Chaos or Order, and slaughtering each
other with wild abandon. There are still pricks (I was ambushed and
killed by 5 Chaos wielding morons), but they are few and far between
since they removed the fame requirement.
As I said, the big PK problem now is the fact it breeds mistrust and
really crummy behaviour on the part of players.
Jeff-boy
Jaquar
I could do 40+ EBs in the high 70's. I could heal 40+ points too.
Jaquar // LS
Sign the player name petition at:
http://www.huneyvaughn.com/tmaez/petition.htm
Richard Cortese
>
> The Master wrote:
>
> > Raph Koster wrote:
> >
> > > The Master wrote:
> > >
> > > > The real trouble, and there is no way to be nice about this, is that Raph Koster
> > > > wants a game that favors pk'ing. He will not move significantly away from this.
> > >
> > > This is just plain wrong, and I am tired of hearing it. :P
> >
> > So many times you've said so, and yet your actions speak otherwise.
> >
> > I am doing you the courtesy of speaking honestly and bluntly, so that you can know the
> > truth. Please take it for what it is, a genuine attempt to improve things.
> >
> > For instance, pking is clearly still rampant.
>
> time: not everyone agreed with you. In fact, I get far MORE complaints that there's too
> LITTLE PKing than I get that there is too much. My own play experience does not accord
> with yours. Neither does that of anyone else on the dev team.
there is enough PK.
It is really subjective. I find the level of PvP fine, but I do run into
people on both sides of the fence.
I will give you an example, one player I have known since Feb was
complaining about getting PK'd too often. I asked how many times & he
said 7, 6 times on Ches & 1 time on Baja. I corrected him in that it was
actually 2 times on Baja for a total of 8 deaths in strangely enough, 8
months of play.
Just in the last week I finally tricked him into going into a dungeon
again. The old "Let me gate us to my forge" routine. I got him to an
area I knew to be full of loot & devoid of monsters. He picked up about
1600 gold & a bunch of mundane junk he was going to sell. I think he is
finally convinced he can go to a dungeon for more then 5 minutes w/o
being PK'd. I imagine if he is PK'd, there will be another few months
before he goes back down.
Once a month is just too frequent for him to ever get far from a guard
area. He thinks PKing is way out of hand.
My son on the other hand plays like he loves walking around as a ghost
more then killing monsters. I will look over at the computer screen from
time to time & at least 1/2 the time it is death gray. I mention
something like,
"Gee, don't you think dieing 5-6 times a night is a little excessive?"
& he just goes,
"What do you mean?"
Absolutely indifferent to the experience.
$.02, your challenge to everyone who believes PK is excessive should be
to ask just exactly how many times they have died in the last week. If
you feel comfortable with the numbers, end of story.
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
number of players who *would* pk in the game has not been reduced.
So they just adjust. They steal from you, they steal your kills, they
steal from your kills, they steal your loot if you die, they NPK
whenever they get the chance, they give you murder counts. etc. etc.
Yeah things are better, but there's plenty of room for further
improvement.
But, still the number one thing on your list should be to give people
something else new and exciting to do in the game. I guess T2A will
keep people busy ... for about a week ... After all, the pks will
have to wait for the good guys to find profit centers on the new
sever.
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
Try firing your high 70's EB's at me some time (well if you could) ...
you might cause 5-10pts of damage. Heck, I used to resist a 70+
mage's eb's consistently when my resist was only in the 60's.
Dennis Francis Heffernan
(Wind Elders, ATL)) wrote:
|keep people busy ... for about a week ... After all, the pks will
|have to wait for the good guys to find profit centers on the new
|sever.
The PKs will know where the good spawn points are before anyone else,
since they have no lives.
Dennis F. Heffernan UO: Venture (Catskills) dfra...@email.com
Montclair State U #include <disclaim.h> ICQ:9154048 CompSci/Philosophy
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
when Victoria reigned." -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Corwin of Amber (Wind Elders, ATL)
>since they have no lives.
Well sure ... but they have to wait for the blue guys to find em - or
else they would have to resort to killing monsters themselves!
Unthinkable!
Jag
<rko...@origin.ea.com> wrote:
>According to whom? You and Lynn and a few dozen others?
>
>Returning stolen items is on the list for the next update.
>
>-DD
PKs are rampant. Quit singling out someone who made an utterfool out
of you and face the facts. What's worse is cheating is seemingly is
hand in hand with the pkilling. *pk makes lag, pk runs up steals black
pearl, pk kills person standing there helpless, OSI ignores 24/7 GM
need, repeat ad nauseum*.
Jag
For the latest information on the "UO Lawsuit", go to:
http://headline.gamespot.com/news/98_10/01_uosuit/index.html
http://headline.gamespot.com/news/98_10/05_bunboy/index.html
http://ultima.scorched.com/library/lawsuit_2.html
John
Couldn't agree more. Although I dont see the relevance with the lawsuit. Is
there one?
thx,
John
Damocles
On Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:02:25 -0700, "John" <jnord...@email.msn.com>
wrote:
>
>Couldn't agree more. Although I dont see the relevance with the lawsuit. Is
>there one?
>
>thx,
>John
>
>>
>>PKs are rampant. Quit singling out someone who made an utterfool out
>>of you and face the facts. What's worse is cheating is seemingly is
>>hand in hand with the pkilling. *pk makes lag, pk runs up steals black
>>pearl, pk kills person standing there helpless, OSI ignores 24/7 GM
>>need, repeat ad nauseum*.
>>
Jag is shooting wind here. It's especially amusing given that one of
the signatories to the suit is a notorious pkiller on Atlantic who has
killed hundreds of players over the past ten months. The man has
admitted using bugs to break into houses and his guild uses all of the
typical pk tactics (including the ones Jag describes above).
But hey, whatever (he thinks) makes OSI look bad.
Corwyn
> > For instance, pking is clearly still rampant.
>
> According to whom? You and Lynn and a few dozen others? I reiterate for the umpteenth
> time: not everyone agreed with you. In fact, I get far MORE complaints that there's too
> LITTLE PKing than I get that there is too much. My own play experience does not accord
> take measures to reduce it. Carefully, slowly, with just a measure here and a measure
> there, yes, not a wholesale reduction. But I think those arguing this on this newsgroup
> need to accept that rampant pkilling is NOT a complaint of a huge section of the
> playerbase at the moment. House breakins, yes. Thieves, yes. Foul character names, yes.
> But not rampant murder.
I have to agree that Pking seems a lot less frequent then it used to
be. Some areas
have not gone down much but generally these are higher risk areas where
at least the
vicitms are somewhat prepared. I think things are getting better.
It was irritating when I heard someone was ambushed entering Wind.
How? Two fellows
placed tamborines around teh arrival spot and flame walled as soon you
you got there.
Hard to see the reason why you couldn;t move. The flame wall damage
made it hard to
recall out so you died. We got there with enough people going through
with teleport
ready that some of us got past the tamborines and since we knew they
were there the others
not being hit by spells were able to find and move the tamborines.
Irritating all the
same though.
Corwyn
The Master
> I have to agree that Pking seems a lot less frequent then it used to
> be. Some areas
> have not gone down much but generally these are higher risk areas where
> at least the
> vicitms are somewhat prepared. I think things are getting better.
>
> It was irritating when I heard someone was ambushed entering Wind.
> How? Two fellows
> placed tamborines around teh arrival spot and flame walled as soon you
In spite of the fact that all advice about changing one's posting methods starts another
flamewar, let me to point out that it would be much nicer if you would set your word wrap at
something under 80, so we don't get this tattered-flag look in your text. Makes it hard to
read.
J Aitken
anything further you can or will do about Pking. The ones who do, are generally
the few who believe there still is.
You said earlier that 'non guild combat' would be made untenable, as characters
would be 'hosed' if it occurred. Now you're saying that you dont want
'wholesale reductions' in PKing - note this is not saying you dont want to do
wholesale sanctions, but that you actually dont _want_ large reductions in
PKing. I guess I can think of a few reasons why this might be so and I can live
with it taking a while - but I'm feeling a bit unclear about what your end point
is. Is it still to virtually eliminate it? If this has changed, can you
explain why?
Otara, Napa
Dennis Francis Heffernan
|According to whom? You and Lynn and a few dozen others? I reiterate for the umpteenth
|time: not everyone agreed with you. In fact, I get far MORE complaints that there's too
|LITTLE PKing than I get that there is too much. My own play experience does not accord
|with yours. Neither does that of anyone else on the dev team.
Is anyone else flashing back to the island-sinking scene from _Eric the
Viking_?