Some quick fixes that would make UO better (long)
El Cid
if you disagree with an idea, don't waste your time telling me "it's just
stupid".. give me some input as to WHY you think it's stupid. Thanks.
Exploits:
As it currently stands, the mosy common exploits are also the oldest. It's
hard to pin the blame on anyone but the Dev team that these still exist and
are still being used.
1) Get rid of the mechanic that has certain skills checking for skill gain
BEFORE an item has been selected (i.e- tinkering). This should have been
done a long time ago, and I really figured this was going to be fixed when
tinkering was redone. No dice, however.
While you're fixing tinkering some more, however, how about cranking up the
durability of tinkered items a little bit. It's rediculous that only a GM
tinker makes items that are of comparable durability to those sold by NPCs.
There's really no reason to be a tinker at ALL on the main shards, unless
you're also a miner, because you can't sell your wares, or trade them... so
their only use is for the personal convenience of not having to go to town
and buy shovels.
2) Get rid of the mechanic that allows for stat gain doing very easy things
that will not raise skill anymore (the phantom arrow and/or herding a
rabbbit/bird/cat/ or sheep, for example), or at least severely cripple the
rate of stat gain in these cases. I'd almost suggest making herding a
non-difficulty based skill, but pretty soon you'd see monster harvesters
adding herding to their repertoire.
3) Get rid of instantaneous snooping. With a good enough connection one can
snoop 2-3 times per second. It pretty much makes it impossible to avoid
getting snooped if you're going to be in the area for more than 2 seconds,
makes snooping INCREDIBLY easy to raise, so much so that no sane pickpocket
would actually start with the ability to snoop. The spam is annoying, and
it's all too easy for a jerk to walk around jamming on the last object key.
4) Get rid of the "125 item rule" exploit. Right now it's a LOT easier to
gain certain skills like fishing and mining, simply by filling one's pack to
the limit of 125 items (125 individual, non-stacked coins, feathers, fish
steaks, or whatever) so that one can fish or mine in the same spot for days,
and never have to move, or worry about the spawn running out, because the
raw material is never actually depleted (since it won't fit in the already
full pack). This is a simple fix. Simply make the material become
depleted, whether it goes in a pack or not.
Game Balance:
Take a long, hard look at the open-ended and clearly broken mechanics like
poison, energy vortex, blade spirit, and provoking.
If provoking isn't currently difficulty based on the main shards, it ought
to be. Nothing screams "broken" like an ability that allows me to use my
enemy's strength against them.
I'm not very familiar with what specifically has been done to nerf BS's
and EV's on Siege Perilous, but many people seem to think that they've been
severely weakened. This is good. Now change them so that they WILL NOT
ATTACK anyone who is blue. This eliminates the need for hackneyed measures
like provoking your own blade spirit, cuts down on the number of
noto-killers jumping on blade spirits, and since they're now nerfed,
there're less worries that mages will exploit the hell out of them. Blade
spirits should be good enough so that most monsters have to deal with them,
but not so good that the caster doesn't have to deal with the monster.
Bugs and broken mechanics:
1) Magical items of protection. These do nothing but give a temporary
boost to parrying (which has almost no actual effect on anything). They
instantly decay up to 9 points of skills if their user is at the skill cap
and actually takes damage with a shield in hand. Why not just make these
cast "protection" on their user? If this is too much work, then simply
delete these items from all item spawns. I'm sure most people wouldn't
complain if they suddenly started pulling a few more items of magic reflect
and stopped pulling protection items altogether,
2) Guild and Noto discounts. I can't really remember if these have ever
worked. If you're not ever going to fix these then please get rid of the
"same guild" spam from vendors, and quit letting npc guildmasters recruit
for their guild. I'd rather see these actually IMPLEMENTED, to add some
more variety and rewards to the game. Even if these did something limited,
like only gave you a discount an an item that had already been inflated by
player purchasing, at least it
would be enough to make it worth the spam taking up my screen space.
3) Wandering Shopkeepers. What is more annoying than having to wander all
throughout Occlo trying to find the NPC blacksmiths? You already have code
the lets NPCs recognize what is, and is not, their shop ("Why don't we go
back to my shop...." etc) so why can't those npcs seem to stay IN their
shop?. In case anyone on the Dev team is deluding themselves into thinking
that ANYONE thinks this adds fun or excitement to the game, please smack
yourself now.
4) Teleporting Shopkeepers. After having tracked down Sven the blacksmith,
I now have to run all the way back to his shop, because Sven has teleported
back the instant I tried to talk to him.
You'd fix a lot of this by keeping shopkeepers in their shops, but I still
see some shopkeepers teleport from one side of thei shop to the other.. this
always seems to happen at the same time as the gold/item respawn/reset.
maybe they have to be in an EXACT location to respawn items and gold? If
so, why? This is almost as annoying as the first two.
5) Pushing through/Stamina: Just make it so that if you have 11 stamina or
more remaining, you can push through another player or monster. The current
system simply makes no sense. Joe Dexmonkey, who is fit as a fiddle (100
dex/stamina) is incapable of pushing through anyone at 99 stamina, while
Tank Mage Guy has no problems at 25 stamina (because 25 is his max). Does
this really make any sense? This is like saying that Arnold Schwarzenneger
can't do another pushup because he's already done one, but an unfit couch
potato CAN, because he hasn't gotten off of his bum all day. There's no
internal consistency as to WHAT Stamina actually represents in the game.
Incidentally, this would eliminate a LOT of problems with jerks and
noto-killers. You wouldn't see so many people getting trapped into the
liche-lord room because some asshole wants to stand in the doorway and grab
the free loot. It would also make it a little easier to survive a mage
attack. As it stands now, even one magic arrow makes it impossible for me
to push through ANYTHING, because I'm not at max stamina.
Thinks I'd LIKE to see but which aren't necessarily bugged:
1) House placement. How about making the house image highlight a certain
way when it is over a valid placement location? You'd eliminate 90% of your
calls to counsellors regarding house-placement issues, and you'd eliminate
the frustration that most of us people experience trying to place a house on
what seems to be a perfectly good location.
2) Display both base AND adjusted skills in the client, or make this
togglable. The client is already tracking this information, so why not let
players know what their skill level is?
3) Let players choose which skill-based title will be displayed on their
paper-doll (assuming that multiple skills are equal in value). If I'm most
proud of the fact that my character is a Grandmaster Swordsman, why must I
be shown as a Grandmaster Healer? This would add a further feeling of
"ownership" to the game, and just generally increase people's pride in their
in game accomplishments.
4) One item auto-loot for those who did the most damage to a monster. This
is already tracked for purposes of notoriety, so why not apply that and help
cut down on the rampant loot-stealing that goes on in dungeons? Give the
character who dealt the most damage one random item from the monster's
corpse. This won't fix ALL problems with loot-stealing jerks, but it at
least gives SOME form of reward to those who did the most work.
5) The skill pool: This is a neat idea, but it actually does about squat
for the game. Basically the function it serves these days is to reward
those who have grandfathered in hard-to-get skills from when they were easy
to get (magic resist being the most glaring example, but smithing and magery
also apply). If you want to give people incentive to try different skills,
then don't make a select few skills the most clearly useful skills in the
game (cough MAGERY cough).
In some cases the skill curve actually DESTROYS incentive to use a
marginally useful skill. Camping, for example, is so easy to raise that I
NEVER use it, no matter how useful it may be in a given situation, because I
know I'm going to be stuck with 2-3 points of camping skill that will
probably not decay in my lifetime. If camping was impossible to raise, I'd
use it all the time.
Conversely, I never go an entire play session without casting 4-5 spells on
myself, Just to insure that my magery and magic resist will not decay,
because they're such a pain to raise and maintain.
The whole idea of the Skill pool seems predicated on the belief that people
will take marginally useful skills, because those skills are easier to
raise. In a game that takes as much time and patience to advance in as UO,
however, any player looking for the path of least resistance generally just
leaves, because GM Begging and Camping is almost as useless as camping and
begging.
Siege Perilous:
One note of prediction here: The new attribute system on SP is going to be
more easily abusable than the old one. What you're going to see
(eventually) are turbo-mage PK's who have an ungodly dexterity, and so can
get off 3 ebolts before their victim can even get to them. You're going to
see plenty of tank mages, since intelligence is now so important to hitting
anything that you might as well use it to it's fullest advantage (casting
spells). Rather than promoting variety, every other character on SP is
going to start looking like a cookie cutter copy of the last.
"Corp Por, Corp Por, Corp por, switch to katana, charge!" should be the new
battlecry.
Also, note that Evils can poison bows. Do we REALLY think that being able
to poison someone from afar, repeatedly, is such a good idea? I foresee a
lot of evil archers, since bows are poisonable, and the "area of protection
from evil" power of the heroes keeps evils from harming them in any other
way. This isn't a huge concern, as presumeably if you donm't like it, you
won't take part in the evil/good system, but it seems as though this might
be a wee bit off kilter.
Yuri Gorlinski
>
> I'm not very familiar with what specifically has been done to nerf BS's
>and EV's on Siege Perilous, but many people seem to think that they've been
>severely weakened.
Some clown named Method was hanging out near the chaos shrine and
chucking BS's at us last night... They seemed pretty well nerfed,
didn't cause any problems. Unfortunately we never managed to catch him,
he was a pretty good runner.
>Thinks I'd LIKE to see but which aren't necessarily bugged:
>
>1) House placement. How about making the house image highlight a certain
>way when it is over a valid placement location? You'd eliminate 90% of your
>calls to counsellors regarding house-placement issues, and you'd eliminate
>the frustration that most of us people experience trying to place a house on
>what seems to be a perfectly good location.
House placement has been sort of broken ever since the infamous housing
patch. Presumably OSI is still investigating the current situation
before they move ahead with anything, as they have been for the past
several months... Remember the OLD plans to open up the NEW lands for
housing? Heh.
>Siege Perilous:
>
>One note of prediction here: The new attribute system on SP is going to be
>more easily abusable than the old one. What you're going to see
>(eventually) are turbo-mage PK's who have an ungodly dexterity, and so can
>get off 3 ebolts before their victim can even get to them. You're going to
>see plenty of tank mages, since intelligence is now so important to hitting
>anything that you might as well use it to it's fullest advantage (casting
>spells). Rather than promoting variety, every other character on SP is
>going to start looking like a cookie cutter copy of the last.
>
>"Corp Por, Corp Por, Corp por, switch to katana, charge!" should be the new
>battlecry.
They've also taken out precasting, which serves to further remove the
tactical element from mage combat and reduce it to a race to see who can
get off the most e-bolts.
Icculus al'Ibn, OGD
Sean
--
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El Cid wrote in message <379b...@news.inil.com>...
>3) Get rid of instantaneous snooping. With a good enough connection one
can
>snoop 2-3 times per second. It pretty much makes it impossible to avoid
>getting snooped if you're going to be in the area for more than 2 seconds,
>makes snooping INCREDIBLY easy to raise, so much so that no sane pickpocket
>would actually start with the ability to snoop. The spam is annoying, and
>it's all too easy for a jerk to walk around jamming on the last object key.
Instantaneous snooping? How do you mean?
>4) Get rid of the "125 item rule" exploit. Right now it's a LOT easier to
>gain certain skills like fishing and mining, simply by filling one's pack
to
>the limit of 125 items (125 individual, non-stacked coins, feathers, fish
>steaks, or whatever) so that one can fish or mine in the same spot for
days,
>and never have to move, or worry about the spawn running out, because the
>raw material is never actually depleted (since it won't fit in the already
>full pack). This is a simple fix. Simply make the material become
>depleted, whether it goes in a pack or not.
I would much prefer they get rid of the 125 item limit PERIOD. It makes
scroll vendors and potion vendors very limited.
>1) Magical items of protection. These do nothing but give a temporary
>boost to parrying (which has almost no actual effect on anything). They
>instantly decay up to 9 points of skills if their user is at the skill cap
>and actually takes damage with a shield in hand. Why not just make these
>cast "protection" on their user? If this is too much work, then simply
>delete these items from all item spawns. I'm sure most people wouldn't
>complain if they suddenly started pulling a few more items of magic reflect
>and stopped pulling protection items altogether,
While they're in there with Magic Reflect items, how about taking 1 charge
when 1 spell hits you? It seems silly that charges will go away if you
aren't using the reflect item.
>3) Wandering Shopkeepers. What is more annoying than having to wander all
>throughout Occlo trying to find the NPC blacksmiths? You already have code
>the lets NPCs recognize what is, and is not, their shop ("Why don't we go
>back to my shop...." etc) so why can't those npcs seem to stay IN their
>shop?. In case anyone on the Dev team is deluding themselves into thinking
>that ANYONE thinks this adds fun or excitement to the game, please smack
>yourself now.
Play EverQuest for a bit, you get to miss the wandering shopkeeps.
>1) House placement. How about making the house image highlight a certain
>way when it is over a valid placement location? You'd eliminate 90% of
your
>calls to counsellors regarding house-placement issues, and you'd eliminate
>the frustration that most of us people experience trying to place a house
on
>what seems to be a perfectly good location.
How about not displaying the wire frame house, just the base of the house --
it chokes my system and probably many others when they try to place a house
now.
>4) One item auto-loot for those who did the most damage to a monster. This
>is already tracked for purposes of notoriety, so why not apply that and
help
>cut down on the rampant loot-stealing that goes on in dungeons? Give the
>character who dealt the most damage one random item from the monster's
>corpse. This won't fix ALL problems with loot-stealing jerks, but it at
>least gives SOME form of reward to those who did the most work.
While I agree things need to be changed about the loot stealing, I'm not
sure this is the correct solution.
El Cid
Sean wrote in message ...
>All seems pretty good. Except...
>Instantaneous snooping? How do you mean?
I mean that unlike every other skill in the game, there is no required delay
between one snooping attempt and the next.. Snooping is handled (interface
and codewise) just like opening your own pack, but with a chance of failure.
I can't anatomize someone 2-3 times per second, identify and item 2-3 times
per second, or attempt to meditate 2-3 times per second. So why is snooping
allowed at whatever rate your connection can handle it? Also, you can
continue to raise snooping skill on an open pack. If this skill doesn't cry
out "macro me to GM in 4 hours!" I don't know what does.
>
>>4) Get rid of the "125 item rule" exploit. Right now it's a LOT easier
to
>>gain certain skills like fishing and mining, simply by filling one's pack
>to
>>the limit of 125 items (125 individual, non-stacked coins, feathers, fish
>>steaks, or whatever) so that one can fish or mine in the same spot for
>days,
>>and never have to move, or worry about the spawn running out, because the
>>raw material is never actually depleted (since it won't fit in the already
>>full pack). This is a simple fix. Simply make the material become
>>depleted, whether it goes in a pack or not.
>
>
>I would much prefer they get rid of the 125 item limit PERIOD. It makes
>scroll vendors and potion vendors very limited.
Seems like if they just made potions stackable they could fix some of that.
Maybe make it so that similar items in the same container don't count as
seperate items when they're on vendors?
>Play EverQuest for a bit, you get to miss the wandering shopkeeps.
I'm not talking about the fact that they move about their shops. I'm talking
about the fact that they move around their shop, out the door, across town,
and out into the woods. It seems that tracking down wandering blacksmiths
is about the only type of quest that they've managed to incorporate into UO.
>>4) One item auto-loot for those who did the most damage to a monster.
This
>>is already tracked for purposes of notoriety, so why not apply that and
>help
>>cut down on the rampant loot-stealing that goes on in dungeons? Give the
>>character who dealt the most damage one random item from the monster's
>>corpse. This won't fix ALL problems with loot-stealing jerks, but it at
>>least gives SOME form of reward to those who did the most work.
>
>
>While I agree things need to be changed about the loot stealing, I'm not
>sure this is the correct solution.
It's a step closer to the right direction, using information that the game
already tracks. I'm sure there's probably a more thorough way of doing
this,but I'm just trying to state some simple ones that wouldn't take months
and months of developement time and would rid the game of some of its minor
aggravations.
Wes
>
>I mean that unlike every other skill in the game, there is no required delay
>between one snooping attempt and the next.. Snooping is handled (interface
>and codewise) just like opening your own pack, but with a chance of failure.
>I can't anatomize someone 2-3 times per second, identify and item 2-3 times
>per second, or attempt to meditate 2-3 times per second. So why is snooping
>allowed at whatever rate your connection can handle it? Also, you can
>continue to raise snooping skill on an open pack. If this skill doesn't cry
>out "macro me to GM in 4 hours!" I don't know what does.
There are many skills with no delay. Tinkering, Lockpicking, Cooking
just to name a few offhand. You aren't going to get GM in 4 hrs, my GM
Snoop took almost 2 weeks of macroing. It gets stuck in the 90's just
like everything else and you will be lucky to get .1 in 4 hrs sometimes.
.../Baja
Richard Cortese
news:19990726101128...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
> >>Instantaneous snooping? How do you mean?
> just to name a few offhand. You aren't going to get GM in 4 hrs, my GM
> Snoop took almost 2 weeks of macroing. It gets stuck in the 90's just
> like everything else and you will be lucky to get .1 in 4 hrs sometimes.
w/100 dex so they are all macroing snooping, along with anatomy or EI or
whatever the current hot ticket kill other players recipe is.
But then you are macroing it too.
You should try test center right after a wipe and see how skills advance on
a clean server where all the macroing has not had a chance to influence the
skill tables yet.
You may actually call for no macroing on a regular server if it could be
done 24/7 to get to GM because you have to as a result of everyone else
macroing, or get to GM in 2 weeks to a month of normal 20 hour per week play
because no one macros.
>
>
> .../Baja
Wes
>
>You should try test center right after a wipe and see how skills advance on
>a clean server where all the macroing has not had a chance to influence the
>skill tables yet.
>
>You may actually call for no macroing on a regular server if it could be
>done 24/7 to get to GM because you have to as a result of everyone else
>macroing, or get to GM in 2 weeks to a month of normal 20 hour per week play
>because no one macros.
I honestly don't see what the big deal about macroing is anyways. I have
only just started macroing with a 3rd party program. Before I would just
sit there and click, click, click away. If I need to get to GM I am going to
sit and fish for 2hrs straight whether I am manually clicking it or not. My
main character has 76 tailoring which I raised from 0.0 and I have never
macroed it. I have, however, sat there and clicked that damn sewing kit
for 2hrs straight. What difference does it make to OSI? Macroers aren't
hurting anyone and I am sure OSI isn't missing out on any money from
it. The only thing I could possibly think is that they want it to take everyone
a really long time to succeed in the game so that way they make more
money. The sooner you succeed the sooner you become bored with it.
That's the only reason I can think of at least...
.../Baja
Richard Cortese
advancement is modified by the number of times a skill is used.
That is, let's take two different brand new servers: On server one, someone
macro's casting flame strikes on themselves, server two, normal play just
casting it on monsters.
Now 2nd week two new players sign up and choose server 1 and 2 respectively.
Because the skill tracking mechanism makes a decision ~"Since someone cast
8,000 flame strikes on server one, the new number of flame strikes necessary
to go up .1 in magery will be 35. Since there were only 400 flame strikes
cast on server two, the new number of flame strikes necessary to up .1 on
that server is 5 flame strikes."
Not only the new player on server one has to cast 35 flame strikes to get
his magery up .1, but the guy *MACROING* it the week before now has to also.
Now the next weeek the server skill code says "16,000 flame strikes last
week" and deals with it. It is a tread mill that once started, you can never
get off.
So everyone has to macro. Works the same way with all skills, including
tailoring and snooping.
If no one every macroed, you could probably reach GM in any skill with a
month or two of normal play. As it stands now, server two where nobody
macros is a pure work of fiction. Only way you can find one like that is TC
after a wipe, and then only for a week.
El Cid
Wes wrote in message <19990726101128...@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
>There are many skills with no delay. Tinkering, Lockpicking, Cooking
>just to name a few offhand. You aren't going to get GM in 4 hrs, my GM
>Snoop took almost 2 weeks of macroing. It gets stuck in the 90's just
>like everything else and you will be lucky to get .1 in 4 hrs sometimes.
I GM'd it on Siege Perilous in about 5 1/2 hours, but that was taking breaks
to go to the bathroom, shower, and eat. I GM'd it on an old Great Lakes
character in about 7 hours. Skills like tinkering have a bit of a delay
built in by way of the menu function. Even cooking requires you to target
two things... snooping allows a straight "jam down the last object key"
approach. Plus you can't continue to cook an already cooked fish steak,
retinker a box, or anything like that. You can snoop an already open pack.
El Cid
Richard Cortese wrote in message <9330314...@news.remarQ.com>...
Well maybe someone from the developement team can answer this one, but my
impression has always been that the skill pool and skill gain are related to
the total skill level in a particular skill, on a shard. The actual number
of skill uses has no effect. I didn't personally write the code or
anything, but this has been my impression, and based on my observation of
the programming style if the Dev team, this seems to fit.
If this is the case, then the fact that a million people are macroing a
skill is a lot less important than the fact that a million people HAVE the
skill.
Richard Cortese
server with clean tables so the start up time will be reduced, then the
number of times a skill is attempted builds a table that decides what the
rate of advancement is. He also said something along the lines of the table
is pretty mature after only a week or so.
Most of the TC regulars get to GM in a week or two, but there are morons who
macro like hell from the first day the shard is up and make GM EI or
Meditation. The "screw everyone else, I got me mine" attitude is pretty
pervasive. It goes with the any form of the PvP crowd. Some idiot macroing
24/7 to go from 99.9 to 100 makes it harder for someone playing a few hours
a day to go from 50 to 60.
But I don't really mind it that much, I figure it is just TC so who cares.
It does get me PO'd when I am trying to look at things like the changes in
tinkering or fletching and some idiot who has macroed everything and is
running UOE attacks, but such is life. Price I pay for getting an early look
at changes.
Richard Cortese
> Just simply turn of the skill pool concept and all will be fine.
> Standard rate of advancement for everyone everywhen.
> loupgarou dragon {UDIC}
This would be completely fine for me.
But here is the problem: People that play the game more feel they should
advance more then people people that just play it a few minutes.
The problem OSI and most everyone else has is that we do not consider
macroing playing the game while it still has gross benefits that go beyond
even what you could get from playing the game.
EQ has it close to right, but it is an extremely limited system. You only
advance through fighting monsters which can't really be macroed. But the
trade skills are pitiful and the things you can put practice points into as
a result of lousy trades have little practical use.
Ideal situation would be if you only got game benefits for being at your
computer vs sleeping or at work.
Ron Findling
>3) Wandering Shopkeepers. What is more annoying than having to wander all
>throughout Occlo trying to find the NPC blacksmiths? You already have code
>the lets NPCs recognize what is, and is not, their shop ("Why don't we go
>back to my shop...." etc) so why can't those npcs seem to stay IN their
>shop?. In case anyone on the Dev team is deluding themselves into thinking
>that ANYONE thinks this adds fun or excitement to the game, please smack
>yourself now.
I can answer this one, Raph talked about this once a long time ago.
They want to fix and it, and indeed tried to - but couldn't figure out
in the code where the wandering was occurring!
Think about that.
Richard Cortese
news:37a0d3fe...@news.singnet.com.sg...
> On Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:44:29 -0000, "Richard Cortese"
> <rico...@netmagic.net> wrote:
>
> >loupga...@123iname.123com remove "123" from email address
> >> Just simply turn of the skill pool concept and all will be fine.
> >> Standard rate of advancement for everyone everywhen.
> >> loupgarou dragon {UDIC}
> >This would be completely fine for me.
> >
> >But here is the problem: People that play the game more feel they should
> >advance more then people people that just play it a few minutes.
> eg: from skill level 0 to skill level 30, Chance of success is 5% +
> 0.86%, every success gives you 0.1 points. (10% of the time, you gain
> stat)
> from skill level 30 to 50
Then we have gone full circle and are now back to the point where macroing a
character will benefit the macroer over someone that actually plays the
game.
This system is arguably better since macroing will no longer hurt the non
macroer, but it still doesn't address what you do to get rid of the 24/7
macroers.
I think the goal is to at least have the pretense of being fair and equal.
This still only moves the system from a -2 to a -1 on a scale of fairness.
But then I have never really believed OSI made any effort to balance the
system fairly. I mean how else do you explain how anyone can get a GM
fighter in a week of sparing, but it takes you 6 months to a year to do it
with a bowyer?
They want 1 week old warrior 'dewds' to be able to kill you, and they want
you to stay around for a year playing the victim while the constant parade
of Quake heads comes through UO killing you, then moving on to the next
latest/greatest game.
El Cid
Ron Findling wrote in message <37a064de...@news.direct.ca>...
>They want to fix and it, and indeed tried to - but couldn't figure out
>in the code where the wandering was occurring!
>
>Think about that.
I try not to.