The Rogue - Problems & Fixes
Maachanto no Remon
simply wrote:
>As I have role-played my rogue, I've noticed some things that I do not
>like. I have considered writing an essay on the Rogue, branching into
>the different rogue classes there are - such as a lock picker/detect
>hidden, etc.
>
>But this is what gripes me about the Rogue:
>
>** Problems **
>
>1. The thieves guild costs 500gp. It provides no title, no status and no
>skill gain. It flags you attackable to anyone and if you murder and you
>are thrown out of the Guild for 48 hours.
Yes, but in exchange for your 500gp you have the opportunity to buy
the disguise kit, and you can steal from blue flagged players. If
anything, I say the price to join should be raised.
-Katie
Tolstoy
like. I have considered writing an essay on the Rogue, branching into
the different rogue classes there are - such as a lock picker/detect
hidden, etc.
But this is what gripes me about the Rogue:
** Problems **
1. The thieves guild costs 500gp. It provides no title, no status and no
skill gain. It flags you attackable to anyone and if you murder and you
are thrown out of the Guild for 48 hours.
2. Snooping is nerfed. It is totally worthless to the Rogue. I can hide
and I can walk 16 spaces in stealth walking. But when I snoop a pack,
I'm revealed. It does me no good then to even stealth up to you. The
only way to counteract this is by waiting next to the person you want to
snoop, snooping, waiting for his pack to open and then hiding again.
Hopefully you hide successful and the player does not notice.
3. Stealing is 10bs MAX if you have 90+ stealing. The only time you
would ever want to steal from players is to have GM stealing. Because of
this, suicidal bank thieves are nearly extinct. (Oh yes, you do come to
the bank and find six dead bodies of StIk3FinG3r lying about, some are
quite clueless.) I am not sure what the weight of items are, so big
ticket items are pretty much off limits. I believe this should stay at
10lbs.
** Possible Fixes **
Thieves Guild: Make the Thieves Guild a real Guild. Guild members may
attack each other freely, but murder will kick you out of the Guild.
Guild members are flagged blue to each other unless otherwise flagged.
Cost of Thieves Guild remains 500gp. I have had some thought to +5.0
bonuses to hiding, stealth, snooping, DEX and stealing, but I'm afraid
that OSI would screw it up so bad, it'd have to be nerfed. Discussion on
guild warfare should be discussed -> Grey flagging, murder.
Title: No extra title to name or guild title above name. The Rogue needs
to keep his anonimity to avoid being attacked by another Guilded Rogue.
PVP: Thieves Guild members are flagged blue to all unless otherwise
flagged.
Murder: Murder of any player - excluding Guild Warfare, reds and greys -
is an automatic drop from the Theives Guild - for 48 hours. Murder
Counts remain the same - Thieves Guild members cannot report anyone for
murder.
Snooping: Snooping a pack does not reveal the player unless he fails at
snooping skill.
Oh yes, and FIX THE DAMN MESSAGE about snooping failure. It has NOT been
fixed FOR SO DAMNED LONG! It drives me NUTTY when players who suck at
snooping SPAM my screen ... Sorry...
Stealing: Stealing from another player is changed: Failure is
grey-flagging and if in town, a halberd weilding guard whacks your ass.
Success means being revealed, but blue flagged - however - you will be
perma-flagged grey to the player you stole from until you die. If that
player attacks you, he will be flagged grey to you. Self defence does
not count as murder in this situation, no drop from the Guild occurs.
Keep item return flagging the way it is - if a thief steals from a
player, the item is returned to the original player if the thief dies
within 15 seconds, otherwise it is on the body - dead or alive.
There is a difference between the Rogue and the Bank Thief...
Maybe this weekend I'll get up a short essay (http) on the Rogue.
Tolstoy/GM Wanderer
Tolstoy
limited applications unless you have a lot of them. The 60 stealing, 80
hiding, 1 week playing time and 500gp is enough. It virtually eliminated
the quick-create bank thief and made you work to join the Guild.
Maachanto no Remon wrote:
> Yes, but in exchange for your 500gp you have the opportunity to buy
> the disguise kit, and you can steal from blue flagged players. If
> anything, I say the price to join should be raised.
>
> -Katie
Tolstoy/GM Wanderer
Quaestor
> Yes, but in exchange for your 500gp you have the opportunity to buy
> the disguise kit, and you can steal from blue flagged players. If
> anything, I say the price to join should be raised.
500 dollars would be more appropriate.
Brandy
Tolstoy <tol...@uswest.net> wrote in message
news:386D7A56...@uswest.net...
<snip>
> Stealing: Stealing from another player is changed: Failure is
> grey-flagging and if in town, a halberd weilding guard whacks your ass.
> Success means being revealed, but blue flagged - however - you will be
> perma-flagged grey to the player you stole from until you die. If that
> player attacks you, he will be flagged grey to you. Self defence does
> not count as murder in this situation, no drop from the Guild occurs.
<snip>
> Tolstoy/GM Wanderer
I bet you started playing after the joyous days of the tank thief. They
were just another type of pk. There was no thieves guild in those days so
they really didn't need much stealing skill. Anyhow, they would run up, do
a random steal, of course you would notice even if they succeeded and they
WANTED you to attack so they could kill you. Seemed like every idiot on the
shard was a tank thief, very irritating.
Anyhow, the thieves guild rule of not being able to kill your attacker was
made because tons of people complained about tank thieves.
Brandy (WE, LS)
J. Brady
> skill gain. It flags you attackable to anyone and if you murder and you
> are thrown out of the Guild for 48 hours.
i wouldn't want a guild title. it's bad enough that i have to walk around
with "scoundrel" attached to my name. Add a title like "Theive's Guild
Member" and everyone would avoid me as soon as i came onto their screen. I
wish joining the guild gave you neutral karma, so people wouldn't see your
"scoundrel" title and assume you're a theif. things would be much easier
that way.
> 2. Snooping is nerfed. It is totally worthless to the Rogue. I can hide
> and I can walk 16 spaces in stealth walking. But when I snoop a pack,
> I'm revealed. It does me no good then to even stealth up to you. The
> only way to counteract this is by waiting next to the person you want to
> snoop, snooping, waiting for his pack to open and then hiding again.
> Hopefully you hide successful and the player does not notice.
that's kinda what i do, or i'll snoop the pack from a distance, get the "too
far away" message, then run past and hit my "last target" macro key (or is
it last object? anyway .. ). if i'm successful, i can see what's in the bag
from a few steps away from my target. if there is anything i want (ahem ..
gold) i walk back to the player, hit my 'steal' macro, target the item
(*cough* gold *cough*) and try to take. then die =)
anyway, i agree that snooping should keep you hidden unless you fail (target
sees "billy bob is attempting to peek in your bag"
> 3. Stealing is 10bs MAX if you have 90+ stealing. The only time you
> would ever want to steal from players is to have GM stealing. Because of
> this, suicidal bank thieves are nearly extinct. (Oh yes, you do come to
> the bank and find six dead bodies of StIk3FinG3r lying about, some are
> quite clueless.) I am not sure what the weight of items are, so big
> ticket items are pretty much off limits. I believe this should stay at
> 10lbs.
unless you get lucky, but then again, that would mean someone keeps trying
over and over till they get it, littering the bank area with K3wLDeWd
corpses. nevermind, i retract that statement. no stuff over 10 stones.
> ** Possible Fixes **
>
> Thieves Guild: Make the Thieves Guild a real Guild. Guild members may
> attack each other freely, but murder will kick you out of the Guild.
> Guild members are flagged blue to each other unless otherwise flagged.
> Cost of Thieves Guild remains 500gp. I have had some thought to +5.0
> bonuses to hiding, stealth, snooping, DEX and stealing, but I'm afraid
> that OSI would screw it up so bad, it'd have to be nerfed. Discussion on
> guild warfare should be discussed -> Grey flagging, murder.
instead of a +5 increase, how about having the guildmaster being able to
raise your skills much higher than if you were not in the guild. example:
when i first started my theif, i think i had 0 hiding. i went to the
guildmaster, paid him 300 or so GP, and that raised my hiding to 30 or so.
now, having about 60 hiding when i joined the guild, i should be able to pay
the guildmaster again (even if it is more like 3000GP this time) to raise my
hiding to at least 80 so i can start stealthing. that may take all the fun
or work out of actually having to play the game to raise stats, but if the
price is really high, you have to play the game to make the money. i hope
that made sense.
> Title: No extra title to name or guild title above name. The Rogue needs
> to keep his anonimity to avoid being attacked by another Guilded Rogue.
yes yes yes! .. or so normal blues dont see a theif approaching from a
screen away.
> PVP: Thieves Guild members are flagged blue to all unless otherwise
> flagged.
>
> Murder: Murder of any player - excluding Guild Warfare, reds and greys -
> is an automatic drop from the Theives Guild - for 48 hours. Murder
> Counts remain the same - Thieves Guild members cannot report anyone for
> murder.
does that mean that 2 consenting theif guild members can spar without being
flagged grey to the world? the one thing i wish i could do in UO is spar
with a guildmate to get my stats up. i dont fight often, but once in a while
i'll grab my mace and some bandages and head to the woods. kinda breaks up
the monotony of 'steal die steal die steal run die". if i had better
fighting skills, i'd adventure out further into the world and do some
dungeon stealing.
> Snooping: Snooping a pack does not reveal the player unless he fails at
> snooping skill.
yeppers
> Oh yes, and FIX THE DAMN MESSAGE about snooping failure. It has NOT been
> fixed FOR SO DAMNED LONG! It drives me NUTTY when players who suck at
> snooping SPAM my screen ... Sorry...
yeah .. that annoys me too...
> Stealing: Stealing from another player is changed: Failure is
> grey-flagging and if in town, a halberd weilding guard whacks your ass.
eh .. only if someone yells for the guards. if i'm in a room alone with
someone that is macroing, and i try to steal his sextant or whatever and i
fail, guards shouldn't appear out of the woodwork to whack me. only if the
player calls for the guards .. THEN they can appear out of nowhere to whack
me. i'm unsure about the failure flagging you grey. i guess that could be
ok...
> Success means being revealed, but blue flagged - however - you will be
> perma-flagged grey to the player you stole from until you die.
that works... and if you're successful (target gets no message that you
stole from him) he shouldn't be able to call the guards (i think that's how
it is now anyway)
> If that
> player attacks you, he will be flagged grey to you. Self defence does
> not count as murder in this situation, no drop from the Guild occurs.
that would rule, but folks would start stealing and failing just to raise
fighting skills. also, if your theif is also a GM mage, you could steal,
fail, zap your target with that para/ebolt/ebolt crap, and then just loot.
you should be able to defend yourself, yes, but not loot if you kill your
target. something like that.