Post Patch Report #2: Magery FUBAR
Graham Nash
mage
JimmyMac
imidiatly.
Damocles
I've done some further testing post patch. These are my results:
Mana drain cast by me, 94.6 magery, 87 int with 0 Evaluate
Intelligence on GM Mage with 100 int and 94 resistance: successful
both times, draining 50 to 70 mana each time. GM Mage rendered
helpless in 5 seconds.
Who playtests these patches? Does anyone actually sit there and figure
out what the results will be if they make a 4th level spell capable of
neutralizing any mage in the game?
--------------
'Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine.'
- Patti Smith, "Gloria"
Damocles
wrote:
>this way people without magic have a chance of winning against a powerful
>mage
>
How does that follow? You still have to be a mage to cast drain, and
the changes to resistance render the non-mage's ability to deal with
offensive spells useless. I was able to cast poison on anyone,
regardless of their resistance. Again, this is with no evaluate
intelligence skill. I can't even resist magic arrow cast by a guy with
44 eval int, and I have a resistance of 60.
Jeff Gentry
: this way people without magic have a chance of winning against a powerful
: mage
100% of the town now. Yeah that seems pretty balanced. Get a mana
drain scrolls and zap the mage. Mage is now worthless. Yeehaw.
LD
Damocles
The pkilling potential for this is incredible. You can drain someone
to 0 mana before they know you're there, and then cast poison on them
before either killing with offensive spells or archery / fencing.
Lord Queso
<snip>
O good, I was begining to think my choice to make Queso a pure mage was
idiotic, NOW I'M SURE IT WAS. Time to start raising that sworsmanship again and
put on that plate.
The Respectable Queso, 100% Pure Moonglow Master Mage (Atlantic)
"Deal with it. Blue PKs are generally cowardly, antisocial, and childish, and
they need to take their medicine." -DD
Xigam
wrote:
I am seriously considering quiting the game. I guess I have finally
reached my limit. I'm just sick and tired of all the changes..
I don't understand.. things were getting better, then all of a sudden,
in the last 2-3 patches, the whole thing seems pointless. I'm sick and
tired of having to readjust my play style. I'm sick and tired of
logging in and having the whole combat system work differently. I'm
sick of them screwing with skills. I'm sick of them breaking things.
I'm sick of working hard on a charactor only to have him rendered
useless by a patch. I'm sick of losing stuff to bugs, GM's who don't
help. I'M SICK OF OSI NOT TESTING PATCHS.
First it was tailoring, and no, I was never a power tailor, I went
outside in the forest and slaughted the little hinds, made my ranger
outfit, and and continued on, if I got killed, np, I could make up a
new suit.. then one day comes a patch..
Now magery.. they never mentioned they were going to weaken magery,
only add a damage bonus for EI..
Well, I'm sick.. sick to the point of not wanting to play, and maybe
sick to the point of not wanting to play ever.. I am going to give it
some time though, and look around.. I don't think that EQ is the game
I want to play, it doesn't look fun to me.. but, UO doesn't seem to be
the game I want to play anymore either. I started back in Aug'97 or
so, and I've put up with so much BS.. I guess that everyone has a
limit. I hope that this patch, is just like so many, and is corrected,
but I really don't feel that it is going to, much like tailoring.
This is not a final goodbye.. I'm not that rash.. but, don't look for
a guy named Xigam on Cheaspeake running around throwing down heals on
total strangers, not looting and rezing ghosts and helping them look
for their lost belongings.. because in all likelyhood, I won't be ..
and if things don't get better soon, I won't be there.
I think OSI is getting further and futher out of touch from the
average player.. I think the average player would like to see less
changes/fuckups to the skill system, and quests, and god forbid, maybe
even a storyline.
- Xigam
>I've done some further testing post patch. These are my results:
>
>Mana drain cast by me, 94.6 magery, 87 int with 0 Evaluate
>Intelligence on GM Mage with 100 int and 94 resistance: successful
>both times, draining 50 to 70 mana each time. GM Mage rendered
>helpless in 5 seconds.
>
>Who playtests these patches? Does anyone actually sit there and figure
>out what the results will be if they make a 4th level spell capable of
>neutralizing any mage in the game?
>
>
>
Ralph
>this way people without magic have a chance of winning against a powerful
>mage
>
Sorry to say, but that's bullshit.
Matt Darrah
>out what the results will be if they make a 4th level spell capable of
>neutralizing any mage in the game?
Don't worry...I'm sure they can fix it with just a little tweak.
They'll probably fix it right after they make that little tweak
tailoring has needed for..oh...the last two months. >:)
(BTW, glad to see leather caps are finally makable once again. Now if
only I could make some crappy studded tunics.)
Matt (Abandon all hope, ye who log on here.)
Don't bother replying by e-mail. No human eyes will see it.
Dundee
wrote:
>Who playtests these patches?
A highly skilled team of professionals.
*choke*
The *players* do! We're doing it now! Guess what happens when you
use a disguise kit on a pig. (warning: don't try this on a pig you're
fond of)
>Does anyone actually sit there and figure
>out what the results will be if they make a 4th level spell capable of
>neutralizing any mage in the game?
Doesn't take a team of geniuses to figure that one out.
Dundee * http://dundee.uong.com/
Skara Brae * http:/members.xoom.com/skara/
Lake Superior * http://mars.spaceports.com/~lakesup/
Dundee
wrote:
>this way people without magic have a chance of winning against a powerful
>mage
LOL.
This way powerful mages will *be* people without magic.
Dundee
>Graham Nash (graha...@usa.net) wrote:
>: this way people without magic have a chance of winning against a powerful
>: mage
>, good answer numnut. Soemone with about 10 magery can defeat a mage
>100% of the town now. Yeah that seems pretty balanced. Get a mana
>drain scrolls and zap the mage. Mage is now worthless. Yeehaw.
Wanna borrow a bow?
Dundee
Is that UOE that lets you cast spells with no mana?
Dundee
wrote:
>I am seriously considering quiting the game. I guess I have finally
>reached my limit. I'm just sick and tired of all the changes..
Hang in there. It may get worse before it gets better, but it *will*
get better. My god, they put in one patch that made pigs cast
flamestrike. This one - "the mana drain, poison, dead mage patch", is
another one for the record books.
If you can't laugh with 'em, laugh at them. :-P
(they really WILL fix this, honest!)
Damocles
wrote:
>On Thu, 25 Feb 1999 04:39:10 GMT, -remove_...@yahoo.com (Xigam)
>wrote:
>
>>I am seriously considering quiting the game. I guess I have finally
>>reached my limit. I'm just sick and tired of all the changes..
>
>Hang in there. It may get worse before it gets better, but it *will*
>get better. My god, they put in one patch that made pigs cast
>flamestrike. This one - "the mana drain, poison, dead mage patch", is
>another one for the record books.
>
>If you can't laugh with 'em, laugh at them. :-P
>
>(they really WILL fix this, honest!)
>
Actually, Faceless spent a good part of last night on CoB claiming
that all was well, that their tests said that people could resist Mana
Drain and Poison even if no one could on the regular shards. He was
finally battered into admitting there was a "problem" with these
spells and that OSI would fix it "soon".
Zipper
I have decided to keep playing a tankmage....even though mana regenerates
very slowly with a low meditation. My character has become much much better
at actual combat with weapons as opposed to ebolting everything right into
the ground. I am forced to make much better decisions when and where to use
spells. Always leaving enough mana to get the hell out of there....
I have though made a concious decision to cut back on my dungeon time in
Shame. I feel I am just not as competetive as a tankmage as I used to be.
And as any of you know the 3rd level of Shame can be a tough place to
survive alone....especially with nerfed mana regeneration.
Zipper
as The Admirable Plantor of Trinsic (Chesapeake shard)
Xigam wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:55:08 GMT, phae...@yahoo.com (Damocles)
> wrote:
>
> I am seriously considering quiting the game. I guess I have finally
> reached my limit. I'm just sick and tired of all the changes..
>
Dundee
wrote:
>Actually, Faceless spent a good part of last night on CoB claiming
>that all was well, that their tests said that people could resist Mana
>Drain and Poison even if no one could on the regular shards. He was
>finally battered into admitting there was a "problem" with these
>spells and that OSI would fix it "soon".
My faith that the problem *will* be addressed is based more on the
players' refusal to accept it than on the Dev' teams willingness to
fix it. This is a "you will never hear about another issue until this
one is fixed" sort of bug.
-
Dundee - http://dundee.uong.com/
Skara Brae - htttp://members.xoom.com/skara/
Lake Superior - http://mars.spaceports.com/~lakesup/
flister john m.
Sick of the Mages always getting away with murder. I will happily drain
them and proceed to attack.
DOOM
On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, Damocles wrote:
>
> I've done some further testing post patch. These are my results:
>
> Mana drain cast by me, 94.6 magery, 87 int with 0 Evaluate
> Intelligence on GM Mage with 100 int and 94 resistance: successful
> both times, draining 50 to 70 mana each time. GM Mage rendered
> helpless in 5 seconds.
>
> Who playtests these patches? Does anyone actually sit there and figure
> out what the results will be if they make a 4th level spell capable of
> neutralizing any mage in the game?
>
>
>
flister john m.
killers since the game opened and now we aren't king of the heap
*boo-hoo*) Gods! I love it!
On 25 Feb 1999, Lord Queso wrote:
> >I've done some further testing post patch. These are my results:
>
Damocles
<fli...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
>Excellent!
>
>Sick of the Mages always getting away with murder. I will happily drain
>them and proceed to attack.
>
>DOOM
Except that if the mage is the attacker you'll be the one who gets
drained, poisoned, and then beat down. This isn't a mage killer patch,
it's a defensive player killer patch.
I have no problem with the changes to offensive spell damage so that
they reflect a ratio of eval int to resistance. But this stuff is a
crock, ridiculous.
Damocles
<fli...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
>ROFL! Listen to all the mages whine now! (gee we have been the rampant
>killers since the game opened and now we aren't king of the heap
>*boo-hoo*) Gods! I love it!
>
It's got nothing to do with that. Pure mages who use this will STILL
be the kings of the hill. Most players use at least a modicum of
magery for basic actions like recall or healing. Now that can be
stripped away in an instant, and then poisoned to boot. While they're
trying to run away, THEN the six ebolts will go through.
Mana drain gives total advantage to the attacker. It's a pkiller's
dream spell.
Jeff Gentry
: Wanna borrow a bow?
I gots lots, but thanks :)
I have this habit of ummm, finding them on the ground :)
LD
Jack Benny
> Who playtests these patches? Does anyone actually sit there and figure
> out what the results will be if they make a 4th level spell capable of
> neutralizing any mage in the game?
Would this be similar to the effects of paralyzation on us non-mages? I
can be completely neutralized by a mage casting paralyzation. I dont
really see the problem. It's about time mages started having to use
actual tactics to survive like the rest of us.
This is not a personal jab either Damo.. just glad to see the field even
in some respects.
Jack
Jeff Gentry
: Would this be similar to the effects of paralyzation on us non-mages? I
: can be completely neutralized by a mage casting paralyzation. I dont
: really see the problem. It's about time mages started having to use
: actual tactics to survive like the rest of us.
Except that the first time you're hit, you're fine and dandy.
Mages are out of mana for a good, long time.
LD
flister john m.
I find it so darn funny that mages are saying things like
"except that the first time you're hit, your fine and dandy. mages are
out of mana for a good long time."
The easiest fix would have been for UO to limit hit points by class.
Mages could have kept thier power, but if a fighter got in close, goodbye
mage.
For the time being, a savvy warrior (with his required 50 magery) is gonna
have the one-up on a mage in SINGLE pvp combat. (and this is why you are
hearing the whining from mages, because they MIGHT not be able to rampage
kill as much) In a year and a half of being top doggie, something
threatens mages - time to pay your dues, say I. Besides, all it requires
is a sequence change in your mage attack pattern:
1. drop reflect
2. mana drain your target before he mana drains you
3. proceed as normal. your 3 remaining corps should drop most targets.
And with all the gankers travelling in packs, what do they really have to
fear, anyhow?
Hehe, you know what I am going to do? Every time I see some fool acting
quirky, I am not even going to think about it. Arrow/Drain. Then we will
see what he does, attack? or converse....
Doom
Jack Benny
> Mana drain gives total advantage to the attacker. It's a pkiller's
> dream spell.
Being mana drained wont affect me in the slightest.
Jack
Jack Benny
>
> Except that the first time you're hit, you're fine and dandy.
> Mages are out of mana for a good, long time.
You've gotta be kidding me. One of the most deadly combination in the
game is paralyze and explosion. Being paralyzed is the hardest thing to
combat.
Mana drain doesnt render you useless to do anything but cast spells.
You can still run and you can still do any other thing.
All it does is make a mage vulnerable (for the first time).
Like I said before (and again this is not personal) - God forbid a mage
have to run like the rest of us.
Jack
Damocles
Being poisoned will, though, since you can't resist it. Can't resist
paralysis either. So I para, poison and hit you with 6 ebolts. Bye bye
Jack.
Bartholemew J. Simpson
>drained, poisoned, and then beat down. This isn't a mage killer patch,
>it's a defensive player killer patch.
Doesn't anyone carry Greater Cure potions? This poisoning fear after
being drained is ill founded.
As to the Mana drain itself: Maybe the wandering mage is going to have
to run when he sees an "Ort Rel" just off the screen, like I have to run
every time I see the 'ole "An Ex Por."
Paralysis is actually quite relaxing, I don't know why I run.
Dundee
<fli...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
>The easiest fix would have been for UO to limit hit points by class.
What is a class?
-
Dundee - http://dundee.uong.com/
Skara Brae - http://members.xoom.com/skara/
Lord Queso
>You can still run and you can still do any other thing.
But if your a pure mage all you can do is cast. If someone mana drains me i am
not gonna run around, I'm gonna KOP.
>All it does is make a mage vulnerable (for the first time).
>
It makes the tank mage vulnerable. It makes the pure mage dead.
>Like I said before (and again this is not personal) - God forbid a mage
>have to run like the rest of us.
>
Once again, the pure mages have been running, a lot. And now they are gonna
have to run even more. The tank mages will just whip out a kryss or a bow.
Jack Benny
> Being poisoned will, though, since you can't resist it. Can't resist
> paralysis either. So I para, poison and hit you with 6 ebolts. Bye bye
> Jack.
Nah.. I carry cure/heal/refresh potions and I can cure poisons 100% of
the time with a band-aid.
And being poisoned breaks paralysis as well as every one of the
6-ebolts. So I'm not affected again.
What's the matter? Afraid someone might have the ability to Last Target
you now that you have to run? (Again.. no personal jabs here.. the shoe
is on the other foot and I'm having a bit of fun)
Jack
Xigam
<fli...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
>The easiest fix would have been for UO to limit hit points by class.
>Mages could have kept thier power, but if a fighter got in close, goodbye
>mage.
Have you played lately? I've seen 80-90 hp mages go down in 3 hits
from a warfork.. because they had no armor on. And that's a warfork
with no DP.
>For the time being, a savvy warrior (with his required 50 magery) is gonna
>have the one-up on a mage in SINGLE pvp combat. (and this is why you are
>hearing the whining from mages, because they MIGHT not be able to rampage
>kill as much) In a year and a half of being top doggie, something
>threatens mages - time to pay your dues, say I. Besides, all it requires
>is a sequence change in your mage attack pattern:
Uhh,, excuse me.. I am not a killer! And the patch doesn't just gimp
mages, it makes it easier to kill if you are the attacker.. If you are
a mage or not it doesn't matter, because it's such a low level skill.
If you get the first attack in, it's always been easier to kill.. not
it's going to be almost automatic. Doing some experements with some
friends and guildmates, we found that if we had 3 people, one take
down MR, 2 cast mana drain (which is 100% effective), the person we
were attacking was pretty much dead.. no recall, no hope of magic
heal.. and the other 3 casters still had mana left to EB or para, or
whatever.. or just box and kill with melee..
- Xigam
Damocles
>Damocles wrote:
>
>> Being poisoned will, though, since you can't resist it. Can't resist
>> paralysis either. So I para, poison and hit you with 6 ebolts. Bye bye
>> Jack.
>
>
>Nah.. I carry cure/heal/refresh potions and I can cure poisons 100% of
>the time with a band-aid.
Potions have a 10 second delay between uses and bandaids take time to
heal, and your fingers will slip when you take damage.
>
>And being poisoned breaks paralysis as well as every one of the
>6-ebolts. So I'm not affected again.
Or I could do it the other way and use the explosion / paralysis
combo.
>
>What's the matter? Afraid someone might have the ability to Last Target
>you now that you have to run? (Again.. no personal jabs here.. the shoe
>is on the other foot and I'm having a bit of fun)
>
>Jack
The shoe isn't on the other foot, though. It's only the defensive
ability of magery that's been curtailed here. All you need is 60 or so
points of evaluate intelligence to counteract the resistance changes
and you're off to the races. As long as you get the first shot in
you're set.
Like I said, a pkiller's dream spell. I spot someone fighting an ettin
or just sitting around and immediately drain his mana and poison him.
Then I cast a few ebolts at him and close with katana to finish him
off if he's still standing.
Jack Benny
> But if your a pure mage all you can do is cast. If someone mana drains me i am
> not gonna run around, I'm gonna KOP.
It was the same way with paralyzation for the last year. I was a pure
warrior - If I'm paralyzed I had to either cook off a purple in my
backpack or take the next hit. And they even took out the ability to
cook off a purple. So you see, I've already been dealing with the same
problem you are presented with now - the ability to be taken out of
combat completely and be vulnerable.
My point is this: I've not seen any mage complain that it wasnt fair
that they could paralyzed anyone, anywhere 100% of the time and make
them completely ineffective. But when the shoe is on the other foot and
they can be completely disabled by a simple low-level spell.. well all
hell breaks loose.
> It makes the tank mage vulnerable. It makes the pure mage dead.
You can still run just like me =) Your success may not be as good as
mine because I wear armor, but then again I cant blow out 5 ebolts in a
row when I want to either =)
When you choose to go "pure" in any class you've got to accept that a
chink in your armor exists. It's just that way. Mages are less used to
this in UO. In any other RPG if you get into melee combat with a high
level mage with a mediocre fighter the mage is in real trouble.
> Once again, the pure mages have been running, a lot. And now they are gonna
> have to run even more. The tank mages will just whip out a kryss or a bow.
Multi-classing (especially in UO) has distinct advantages. I'd look for
some weaknesses in multi-classes soon.
Jack
Damocles
wrote:
>
>Uhh,, excuse me.. I am not a killer! And the patch doesn't just gimp
>mages, it makes it easier to kill if you are the attacker.. If you are
>a mage or not it doesn't matter, because it's such a low level skill.
>
>If you get the first attack in, it's always been easier to kill.. not
>it's going to be almost automatic. Doing some experements with some
>friends and guildmates, we found that if we had 3 people, one take
>down MR, 2 cast mana drain (which is 100% effective), the person we
>were attacking was pretty much dead.. no recall, no hope of magic
>heal.. and the other 3 casters still had mana left to EB or para, or
>whatever.. or just box and kill with melee..
>
>- Xigam
That's what I've been trying to say here. These changes don't cripple
mages, they cripple defenders of all types. Offensively the mage
reigns supreme.
Xigam
>Would this be similar to the effects of paralyzation on us non-mages? I
>can be completely neutralized by a mage casting paralyzation. I dont
>really see the problem. It's about time mages started having to use
>actual tactics to survive like the rest of us.
The field is not even, it's a problem that is going to affect
non-mages as much as pure mages.. As for tactics, with the addition of
the pure mage, you DO have to change your tactics. Take of your armor
next time you are fighting and see how long you last in a battle
before you decide to change your tactics.
BUT THE POINT IS.. I'M SICK OF ALL THESE CHANGES... I've put up with
CHANGES for over 1 year, and I AM SICK OF IT.. I want to play, I am
sick of beta testing for fools who can't program, and don't seem to
have a clue the changes they intruduce will effect REAL PLAYERS.. the
are overly concerned with all those who have been bitching about
DIEING over and over.. I AM NOT A PK, and I rarely get killed by
players, when I do, it's because of some dude, or group of dudes that
run up to me when I'm grey from BS, firefield, or EV and all wack me
at once, even then I have a 66% chance of recalling (well I used to).
The last time I died from a player, some guy named No Limit killer or
something ran onto my screen and droped and EV right next to me when I
was in a tight spot.. I should have been expecting that but for some
reason, I wasn't thinking.. I'd been watching him case me for awhile
and I was thinking of a stratigy.. well, with no armor on, once the EV
was between me and open space, I was dead.. (he was blue btw, so I was
I) The time before that was about 2 months before, and it was due to
my force attacking a much larger force (hey, they were calling us
newbies and wanted to fight, but who knew they had all those guys
hidden!) .. but it was alot of fun.. I enjoyed it.
The other 8-20 times I was attacked by humans in the past month, I
either escaped, or made them RUN.. and a couple of times actually
killed the guy who attacked me..
What kills me THE MOST? LAG AND CONNECTION LOSSES, CLIENT CRASH.. this
might be different if I was a player who actively sought out PvP
combat, but I don't so for me, the number one killer is LAG AND
CONNECTION LOSS, CLIENT CRASH.. folowing that I die from monsters..
following that I die from NPK's (blue pks) LASTLY I die from red
PKs.. (last time I saw one, he didn't even try to attack me).
I AM TIRED OF CHANGES AND WANT TO PLAY A GAME THAT IS NOT IN BETA!
I WANT TO SEE A STORYLINE
I WANT TO SEE LORD BRITISH EITHER COME OUT OF HIS SHELL OR BE
OTHERTHROWN
I WANT TO SEE STUPID BUGS FIXED
I DON'T WANT TO SEE OSI _TRY_ AND BALANCE A GAME FOR ANOTHER YEAR AND
A HALF.
I WANT TO SEE CAMPING ELIMATED AS A SKILL.
I WANT SOMEONES HEAD ON A POLL FOR THE TAILORING CHANGES.
- Xigam
Jack Benny
> Potions have a 10 second delay between uses and bandaids take time to
> heal, and your fingers will slip when you take damage.
The delay only is for healing and str potions. All other potions can be
drank as fast as you can do it. Healing is not a combat skill - like I
said, I retreat often to heal and change tacts. But regarding being
poisoned slipping fingers doesnt apply. If I slap on bandage while
poisoned I *will* be cured.
But in any event, I've already been used to fighting in this manner.. so
nothing has changed for the pure warrior.
> Or I could do it the other way and use the explosion / paralysis
> combo.
Yep you could.. I'd suggest any mage use this combination. It's almost
impossible to beat - especially with last target.
> The shoe isn't on the other foot, though. It's only the defensive
> ability of magery that's been curtailed here. All you need is 60 or so
> points of evaluate intelligence to counteract the resistance changes
> and you're off to the races. As long as you get the first shot in
> you're set.
Mana draining only affects mages. If you are mana drained you cant do
*anything*. It's offense and defense thats gone. Just like with
paralysis on a pure warrior. It takes you ability to defend (run) and
offend (fight) with no chance of resisting it.
Draining does the same thing to mages - except they can run now. Mages
have always had the upper hand in escaping death. Warriors have always
had the worst of it.
> Like I said, a pkiller's dream spell. I spot someone fighting an ettin
> or just sitting around and immediately drain his mana and poison him.
> Then I cast a few ebolts at him and close with katana to finish him
> off if he's still standing.
If someone is so dependant upon any one measure for survival then they
have primed themselves for being killed. That's the way we get
endangered species and extinction. Most endangered species and extinct
species exhibited such a specialized behavior that it ended up being
their demise.
Specialism has the greatest ability for gain, but also the greatest
ability for loss. Generalism has neither.
I've been a specialist for the entire time that I've played this game.
I understand what it's like to be a specialist. It's not easy.. but
it's a hell of alot of excitement.
Jack
Xigam
<asil...@maine.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Doesn't anyone carry Greater Cure potions? This poisoning fear after
>being drained is ill founded.
I always carry 3-4 GC potions.. but ain't it a bitch when you get
posioned 10 times fighting one monsteR?
- Xigam
Jeff Gentry
: You've gotta be kidding me. One of the most deadly combination in the
: game is paralyze and explosion. Being paralyzed is the hardest thing to
: combat.
You actaully seen spell damages these days? Para-explosion will
just tickle me :P
: Mana drain doesnt render you useless to do anything but cast spells.
: You can still run and you can still do any other thing.
I can't really run, my connection sucks too much. And I can't
"do any other thing" because I gave it all up to be a mage :P
: All it does is make a mage vulnerable (for the first time).
I've been 'vulnerable' for a while now. You been hit by
katanas, warforks, or god help you halberds with no armour on?
They do more damage against me than any spell now.
LD
Dundee
wrote:
>Being poisoned will, though, since you can't resist it. Can't resist
>paralysis either. So I para, poison and hit you with 6 ebolts. Bye bye
GM Mage with GM Eval Int hit me with a 12-point Ebolt last night.
Then I took him all-red in four hits with a katana.
So you might want to throw a flamestrike in there. Seems like Ebolts
been nerfed.
Jack Benny
>
> That's what I've been trying to say here. These changes don't cripple
> mages, they cripple defenders of all types. Offensively the mage
> reigns supreme.
Goliath thought the same thing.
The pure warrior is not affected by this in any way. Mages now have a
chink in the armor just like me. *thats* what I'm laughing at.
Jack
Strife
wrote:
>Except that if the mage is the attacker you'll be the one who gets
>drained, poisoned, and then beat down. This isn't a mage killer patch,
>it's a defensive player killer patch.
I completely agree. This change gives far too much advantage to the
player who attacks first, whether he be a mage or a warrior with a
little magic. If anything I would like to see PvP combat made LESS
deadly, so that there is more room for tactics and timing than simply
having the killer spell combo.
Nah, this is broke. I may go play BG for a while and wait out this
patch. A 4th circle spell should not be a "insta-killer" or even a
really effective spell.
Strife/Trouble
SBR
Jack Benny
>
> The field is not even, it's a problem that is going to affect
> non-mages as much as pure mages.. As for tactics, with the addition of
> the pure mage, you DO have to change your tactics. Take of your armor
> next time you are fighting and see how long you last in a battle
> before you decide to change your tactics.
How does mana draining affect a pure warrior in a negative manner?
Remember - in exchange for removing your armor you have the ability to
regenerate mana at a fantastic rate. I dont use magery in combat so I'd
never remove it. But if I did use magery as a combat skill you can bet
I'd be wearing alot less armor. Like I've been saying.. this is an
attempt at balancing. - Its closer to being balanced now than it was
before.
>
> BUT THE POINT IS.. I'M SICK OF ALL THESE CHANGES... I've put up with
> CHANGES for over 1 year, and I AM SICK OF IT..
*snipped rant on changes*
The point of all these changes is to help form a community. In order to
do that we have to have the ability to do everything taken away from
us. In some manner we are being forced to choose what we want to do,
instead of doing it ourselves and circumnavigating the intended design.
Its getting much better. It *will* get better too.
Jack
Xigam
>The pure warrior is not affected by this in any way. Mages now have a
>chink in the armor just like me. *thats* what I'm laughing at.
Uhh.. Jack,, mages have a chink in their armor.. it's called, NO
ARMOR..
So the para thing was busted.. you never heard me bitch about it
because 1) I didn't use it to kill other players, and 2) I could
almost always chug a GH after the first damage blow after para and get
off a KOP..
Para was broken, you and all your pure melee buddies should have been
bitching louder all along, just because us mages do more talking and
less grunting.. err.. what your INT? ;-) Para was busted, and it was
supposed to be fixed.. but it wasn't, instead they just broke
something else.
- Xigam (who is damn tired of beta testing)
Xigam
You won't be able to recall ever.. if you used to use magery just for
heal/recall, that is gone now if you are the defensive player.
>Remember - in exchange for removing your armor you have the ability to
>regenerate mana at a fantastic rate. I dont use magery in combat so I'd
>never remove it. But if I did use magery as a combat skill you can bet
>I'd be wearing alot less armor. Like I've been saying.. this is an
>attempt at balancing. - Its closer to being balanced now than it was
>before.
"an attempt at balancing", for over a year now they have been trying
to attempt it.. and they have failed again. I am dead in 3 melee hits
without armor.. If i get too close to a baddie, I am dead.. and I
cannot regen mana as fast as you can deal out damage with a katana, or
kryss (archery is pretty easy to run from now, with the delay)..
I have both types of chars.. melee chars were deadly before the
manadrain patch.. the para thing was there, but that was wrong.
>The point of all these changes is to help form a community. In order to
>do that we have to have the ability to do everything taken away from
>us. In some manner we are being forced to choose what we want to do,
>instead of doing it ourselves and circumnavigating the intended design.
>
>Its getting much better. It *will* get better too.
Jack, how long have you been playing? How long are you willing to put
up with shit before they get it right? Another 1.5 years? How many
problems have been so elementry and taken months and months to fix...
- Xigam
Damocles
wrote:
>>>
>>>Being mana drained wont affect me in the slightest.
>>>
>>>Jack
>>
>>Being poisoned will, though, since you can't resist it. Can't resist
>>paralysis either. So I para, poison and hit you with 6 ebolts. Bye bye
>>Jack.
>
>No, no.. it's para, poison, para, para, para, para, ebolt, para,
>ebolt, para, para, ebolt, para, ebolt, para, para, para, para, ebolt,
>para, para, ebolt.... how much mana <do> you have, anyway?
>Of course the guy better be by himself, or his buddies will be in the
>process of serving you your butt on a plate.
I've never had any problems running and casting. You just need to
anticipate the usually predictable mind of the other guy and give
yourself a few extra spaces to cast.
>I'm just curious where the mana for those six ebolts you're mentioning
>is going to come from--or are you just taking a little artistic
>license here?
At 100 mana and 60 + meditation six ebolts over the course of 30
seconds or so will take you down to 20 or 30 mana.
Damocles
>Damocles wrote:
>>
>> That's what I've been trying to say here. These changes don't cripple
>> mages, they cripple defenders of all types. Offensively the mage
>> reigns supreme.
>
>
>Goliath thought the same thing.
>
>The pure warrior is not affected by this in any way. Mages now have a
>chink in the armor just like me. *thats* what I'm laughing at.
>
>Jack
By looking at this from this strange class vs. class perspective
you're missing the really important point: these changes make it much
easier to pkill. The balance is tipped heavily in favor of the
attacker.
Jack Benny
> Uhh.. Jack,, mages have a chink in their armor.. it's called, NO
> ARMOR..
Feh.. I run around all the time with no armor. I'm not impressed so
much with that restriction. And there is a trade off for not wearing
that armor - the ability to regenerate mana at a crazy rate.
> So the para thing was busted.. you never heard me bitch about it
> because 1) I didn't use it to kill other players, and 2) I could
> almost always chug a GH after the first damage blow after para and get
> off a KOP..
But the exeption is that you *can* get off a KOP - I cant. All I can do
is wait for the next last target paralyze.. so if a mage has to put up
with the same threat.. thats poetic justice.
> Para was broken, you and all your pure melee buddies should have been
> bitching louder all along, just because us mages do more talking and
> less grunting.. err.. what your INT? ;-) Para was busted, and it was
> supposed to be fixed.. but it wasn't, instead they just broke
> something else.
I'm not saying its right now.. I'm saying its *ironic*. And I love
irony.
Jack
Jack Benny
> By looking at this from this strange class vs. class perspective
> you're missing the really important point: these changes make it much
> easier to pkill. The balance is tipped heavily in favor of the
> attacker.
That certainly is the unfortunate side to this. I'll admit anything
that makes it easier to kill another player is bad.
My point really is that paralyzation has been the same way forever.
It's nice to see some people finally taking a look at how unbalanced
magery can be at times. I just wish people would notice more often
instead of using (abusing) it to their benefit and not saying anything.
Jack
Jack Benny
> I've been 'vulnerable' for a while now. You been hit by
> katanas, warforks, or god help you halberds with no armour on?
>
> They do more damage against me than any spell now.
It's nice to finally see some things swing my way I'll happily admit.
Para has bothered me for some time now (it's unbalanced effect) so I'm
just comparing the two and the vast difference in reactions on the two
spells from mages.
It's not working right as it is.. but just as mages should have the
chance to resist mana drain, the rest of us should have the chance to
resist paralyzation. That's been my theme here.
Hopfully the end result is somewhere in between the all or none approach
we're given.
Jack
Jack Benny
last year but mages havent said a peep about it. It's ironic that when
the shoe falls on the other foot and mages have the danger of being
completly taken advantage of they scream like hell.
Paralyze has been the same way. It's been in favor of the 1st attacker
for the last year. Let's get away from "this affects me and it sucks"
attitude and go towards a more - "Hey this looks unbalanced for the
other guy" attitude.
I'll be happy to help out my fellow man if he helps me.
Jack
Jeff Gentry
: It's not working right as it is.. but just as mages should have the
: chance to resist mana drain, the rest of us should have the chance to
: resist paralyzation. That's been my theme here.
My point tho that para is equally deleterious to all, whereas a mana draining
is definitely worse for the person who is more dependant on mana :)
LD
Jack Benny
> You won't be able to recall ever.. if you used to use magery just for
> heal/recall, that is gone now if you are the defensive player.
It's a common misconception that you have to use magery to be survive in
this game. I (and other true warriors) dont use magical healing or
recall in combat.
> "an attempt at balancing", for over a year now they have been trying
> to attempt it.. and they have failed again. I am dead in 3 melee hits
> without armor.. If i get too close to a baddie, I am dead.. and I
> cannot regen mana as fast as you can deal out damage with a katana, or
> kryss (archery is pretty easy to run from now, with the delay)..
But in exchange to deal out damage I have to be *right next* to you. If
you are one tile away from me I am SOL. Plus archery and melee fighters
dont have the ability to do massive amounts of damage in a few seconds
from far away. - There should be a trade off.
> Jack, how long have you been playing? How long are you willing to put
> up with shit before they get it right? Another 1.5 years? How many
> problems have been so elementry and taken months and months to fix...
Until the next GUI MPRPG comes along that can beat it. If Everquest
does that.. I'm gone from UO. Until I see that better one.. I'm
sticking here. OSI has a corner on the market until then.
Jack
Jack Benny
> My point tho that para is equally deleterious to all, whereas a mana draining
> is definitely worse for the person who is more dependant on mana :)
And my point is that realistically a warrior cannot cast paralyzation on
a mage and then equip the sword and bash them to death (because a mage
can recall or get out of range for the next hit). But you put it the
other way around and the warrior is in some deep doo doo.
In magery vs magery I agree completely. Melee vs magery the mage has
always had the better odds of survival and winning. - Which is no longer
true with this patch. I could very well end up running to kill a mage
now instead of going in for the kill and having him KOP.
Now where was that person with that mana drain wand with 100+ charges...
<BEG>
Jack
Kevin M
Damocles wrote in message <36d4a177...@news.rdc1.va.home.com>...
>Who playtests these patches?
What makes you think anyone tests them??
Results seem to indicate that NO ONE DOES! Or, they do, and just don't care
about fixing the fuckin BUGS!!!
Kev
Jaquar
You don't here me complaining and I think the people throwing parties
for this change are in for a horrible reality. There are plenty of
hardcore pvpers that can fight without magery to. Buckle up folks,
your in for a very very rough ride.
On Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:27:37 -0500, "flister john m."
<fli...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
>ROFL! Listen to all the mages whine now! (gee we have been the rampant
>killers since the game opened and now we aren't king of the heap
>*boo-hoo*) Gods! I love it!
>
>
>On 25 Feb 1999, Lord Queso wrote:
>
>> >I've done some further testing post patch. These are my results:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> O good, I was begining to think my choice to make Queso a pure mage was
>> idiotic, NOW I'M SURE IT WAS. Time to start raising that sworsmanship again and
>> put on that plate.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The Respectable Queso, 100% Pure Moonglow Master Mage (Atlantic)
>> "Deal with it. Blue PKs are generally cowardly, antisocial, and childish, and
>> they need to take their medicine." -DD
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jaquar of The Shadow's Soul
Guildmaster
Grandmaster Mage
Jaquar
Jeff Gentry
: In magery vs magery I agree completely. Melee vs magery the mage has
: always had the better odds of survival and winning. - Which is no longer
: true with this patch. I could very well end up running to kill a mage
: now instead of going in for the kill and having him KOP.
Well, see, I always consider a KOP to be an admission of loss. Same
as running away totally (running off screen temporarily is different).
Thus, by that reasoning, I think that the mage/warrior fights weren't
too terribly out of whack before. I was seeing them go both ways for
the first time ever.
: Now where was that person with that mana drain wand with 100+ charges...
A friend of mine was claiming that his mana drain wands didn't work
right. Said they were using many charges per hit.
LD
Jack Benny
>
> You don't here me complaining and I think the people throwing parties
> for this change are in for a horrible reality. There are plenty of
> hardcore pvpers that can fight without magery to. Buckle up folks,
> your in for a very very rough ride.
Yep. Once again.. short sweet and to the point.
You have to admire the shit out of Jaq. Nobody rolls with the punches
better IMHO. This is going to change the face of PvP - that I have no
doubt in.
But it wont affect me =)
Jack
Dundee
>You don't here me complaining and I think the people throwing parties
>for this change are in for a horrible reality. There are plenty of
>hardcore pvpers that can fight without magery to. Buckle up folks,
>your in for a very very rough ride.
The townfighters have left the city limits... oh joy.
Dundee
>It's a common misconception that you have to use magery to be survive in
>this game. I (and other true warriors) dont use magical healing or
>recall in combat.
Hey, I resent that. I consider myself a "true warrior" and I'll use
everything from In Vas Mani to "a kill" in combat. If I could throw
furniture, I'd do that, too.
I hate class-systems and wouldn't like it if OSI pushes us into an
all-or-nothing with magery or armor or taming or ... whatever.
Then again, maybe I'm more of the paladin sort... healing/defensive
magery and otherwise just mundane combat. Er.. except the archery and
animal taming.
Ok, I give up. What class am I?
(first thing I do when I get home, is to put mana drain on a hotkey)
Jack Benny
>
> Hey, I resent that. I consider myself a "true warrior" and I'll use
> everything from In Vas Mani to "a kill" in combat. If I could throw
> furniture, I'd do that, too.
LOL! I like it. I want that as a new skill - Bar room Brawling. You
can use furniture. The higher skill you have the more furniture you can
use. At GM levels you can equip a armoire!
>
> I hate class-systems and wouldn't like it if OSI pushes us into an
> all-or-nothing with magery or armor or taming or ... whatever.
Yeah but on the serious side I like that they are giving perks to those
people wishing to specialize in classes, while at the same time giving
them weaknesses too.
> Then again, maybe I'm more of the paladin sort... healing/defensive
> magery and otherwise just mundane combat. Er.. except the archery and
> animal taming.
>
> Ok, I give up. What class am I?
>
> (first thing I do when I get home, is to put mana drain on a hotkey)
LOL - me too. Of course that will be friday since I'm out here in
not-so-sunny California this week.
Jack
Jaquar
>Jaquar wrote:
>>
>> You don't here me complaining and I think the people throwing parties
>> for this change are in for a horrible reality. There are plenty of
>> hardcore pvpers that can fight without magery to. Buckle up folks,
>> your in for a very very rough ride.
>
>
>Yep. Once again.. short sweet and to the point.
>
>You have to admire the shit out of Jaq. Nobody rolls with the punches
>better IMHO. This is going to change the face of PvP - that I have no
>doubt in.
>
>But it wont affect me =)
>
>Jack
Thanks. Basically, I gave up on trying to swim upstream. Better to
let the water take you where it will.
Jack Benny
>
> Thanks. Basically, I gave up on trying to swim upstream. Better to
> let the water take you where it will.
>
You gotta admit though it's fun to sit in your inner tube and throw beer
bottles at those people being dragged kicking and screaming into the
river.
Ok.. mabye it's not that funny but it's cheap entertainment.
*grin*
Jack
Xigam
>Until the next GUI MPRPG comes along that can beat it. If Everquest
>does that.. I'm gone from UO. Until I see that better one.. I'm
>sticking here. OSI has a corner on the market until then.
IMHO, EQ is not what I want... so far, I am unimpressed.. i hear good
things about middle earth though..
- Xigam
Dundee
>LOL! I like it. I want that as a new skill - Bar room Brawling. You
>can use furniture. The higher skill you have the more furniture you can
>use. At GM levels you can equip a armoire!
I thought that was a UOE feature.
Brandy
Jeff Gentry wrote in message <7b4cth$ts6$2...@newsfeeds.rpi.edu>...
>Jack Benny (ple...@ask.me) wrote:
<snip>
>: Now where was that person with that mana drain wand with 100+ charges...
>
>A friend of mine was claiming that his mana drain wands didn't work
>right. Said they were using many charges per hit.
>
>LD
Yeah I had one with 98 charges I was trying to use to raise meditation. It
lasted all of 7 uses. I wish they would fix the magic charges stuff but I
guess enough people don't complain about it.
Brandy (SBR, LS)
jx...@po.cwru.edu
This is how the wands seem to work, tested by HaN on LS and NRG on
Sonoma.
1) A charge is used for every mana drained.
2) Mana drained every time the wand is used is significantly lower than
the spell, looks to be maybe 20-30 mana per drain.
3) Resists about the same as an e bolt cast at 65-75 magery.
-Smedley, Summoner of Daemons
Dennis Francis Heffernan
|My point really is that paralyzation has been the same way forever.
|It's nice to see some people finally taking a look at how unbalanced
|magery can be at times. I just wish people would notice more often
|instead of using (abusing) it to their benefit and not saying anything.
I think it was Greg Costikiyan who pointed out that virtually every
fantasy RPG has repeated D&D's mistake of including a sleep spell.
Incredible, ain't it?
Dennis F. Heffernan UO: Venture (Catskills) dfra...@email.com
Montclair State U #include <disclaim.h> ICQ:9154048 CompSci/Philosophy
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
when Victoria reigned." -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Brandy
jx...@po.cwru.edu wrote in message <36D612CC...@po.cwru.edu>...
Thanks for the info Smedley. Now I am wondering if this is "what was
intended" and therefore not broken or if it can be lumped in with the
nighteyes and spell reflection items as "obviously a bug but we haven't
gotten around to fixing it yet".
Brandy (SBR, LS)
Jaquar
Actually you're right. Some people take my attitude to much to heart
though.
flister john m.
You are baiting me, aren't you?!
A valid point though... UO is finally addressing "class", they are just
hedging and calling it something like, um, "tree specialization".
Haha! have fun with this post you pagan!
Doom/Zeral
On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, Dundee wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Feb 1999 12:04:38 -0500, "flister john m."
> <fli...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
>
> >The easiest fix would have been for UO to limit hit points by class.
>
> What is a class?
Lee Armstrong
Don't look now, but Middle Earth may never see the light of day, with
Sierra shutting down most of their satellite development offices. And ME
was being developed in one of the offices being shut down.
Subotai (GL)
jx...@po.cwru.edu
>
> On Thu, 25 Feb 1999 00:55:08 GMT, phae...@yahoo.com (Damocles)
> wrote:
>
> >I've done some further testing post patch. These are my results:
> >
> >Intelligence on GM Mage with 100 int and 94 resistance: successful
> >both times, draining 50 to 70 mana each time. GM Mage rendered
> >helpless in 5 seconds.
>
> What happens with Magic Reflect up?
The drain reflects. Fun stuff :)
-Smedley, Summoner of Daemons
Richard Cortese
keeping those wands of mana draining with 150 charges as they were going
to become very valuable.
Thing is, it is great for dealing with liches and daemons.
Damocles wrote:
>
> I've done some further testing post patch. These are my results:
>
> Mana drain cast by me, 94.6 magery, 87 int with 0 Evaluate
> Intelligence on GM Mage with 100 int and 94 resistance: successful
> both times, draining 50 to 70 mana each time. GM Mage rendered
> helpless in 5 seconds.
>
> Who playtests these patches? Does anyone actually sit there and figure
> out what the results will be if they make a 4th level spell capable of
> neutralizing any mage in the game?
>
> --------------
>
> 'Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine.'
> - Patti Smith, "Gloria"