I agree with Lynn (save the archer)
JEREMY KASDORF
main combat skills (magery, archery, and Swordsmanship) and have come
to a conclusion on all three PKing skills.
Magery - Using E Bolt on another player may work with the first attacks,
but if your victim has the ability to heal at all, he will outlast your
mana. This can create a very terrible situation when you are out of
mana against an archer.
Archery - If you attack a mage with an archer, you will have a stand off
all the time (untill your vitim have run out of regs and healing items)
With an archer, you can heal with GH potions when your life goes low and
then repeat the process of hitting them with your bolts. It is as
annoying as hell to see your victim heal as you deliver the would have
been kill shot seconds after they have healed.
I have also found that since an archer is supposed to have such the
advantage against swordsmen, I would have to enter in my info on it. No
matter what anyone says, a normal halbred hits alot harder than a normal
heavy xbow. One more thing, they swing quicker, and all you have to do
is stay near (you can inflict damage while moving) If the swordsman has
gh potions, he can win against the archer by just staying near him and
keep swinging, if you are going to win against your swordsman victim, he
only has to run away. You cant inflict damage while moving.
Swordsman - I have found that the same phylosophy works on both mages
and archers. If the victim has to move, he wont be able to hurt you. A
mage cant hurt you if he is too busy running, an archer cant hurt while
running. Use GH potions and you will infict more damage than a heavy
xbow. The magic, you just have to wait out thier mana with healing.
On my many PKings in the past few days (I dont run in guns a blazing, I
tell them to get off my land given to me by birthright by Elendil, or
Gorgothon) I have yet to see my name turn to the Murderer Jeremy (I
think I have the max of 4, but I know I have killed at least 10 in the
last 3 days with no macroing.) And I have come to the conclusion that
PKs using archery are only good because of the fabble horror stories
about 90 hp per shot heavy XBow shots. When a player sees you attack
them with a heavy xbow, they immediatly run. The hardest battles I have
fought were aganst the players that say to themselves "screw it, Im
gonna try to take him down with me" Even though they are not the best
players i have fought.
These are what I have found, use them to your advantage, or discard
them, I really dont care. Just don't whine about your inability to
fight these PKs wielding heavies, because I know for a fact they can be
killed.
Bannor
Snip
> Just don't whine about your inability to
>fight these PKs wielding heavies, because I know for a fact they can be
>killed.
Its not our inability to fight a PK, its our inability to fight 4 or 5 of
them at once
I have NEVER in 8 months of playing fought a pk where he didnt have his
"Buddies".
JEREMY KASDORF
Maybe that's what Im doing wrong, I need to stop this lone PK crap
where I can get killed and join a group :)
But really, I don't see why PKs fight in groups, it isn't very fun at
all. There is never any challenge. If you are on Pacific, you might
have seen me, I still am not The Murderer Jeremy (I don't know why
either)
Ian
by arrows at the cost of 6gp per bolt, lets say 5 bolts.. 30gp kill. Is it
fun to die that way?
Now, lets say you are a swordsman and came across an archer, no way, your
dead without recall.
I know most of the people have the attitude "if you cant fight em, join em".
But you are basically ruining their ability to have fun, if a person
comes along with a viking sword, all you do is run and shoot; it is pretty
lame. You dont even give them a chance to hit. Now if he got disconnected,
all you would have to do is sit 2 paces away from him ready to loot.
Archers can drink GHs but a person with a halbard (almost the same
damage) cant? They are both "2 handers", they should also at least take this
feature away. And that you can only drink a gheal 3 seconds after you
unequipt (with swordsmen too). BUT, Gheals can only heal a max of like 33
which is very rare even with a GM alchemist, usually in the 15-25 range. But
a mage can heal 45pts which is pretty consistant (last time i had my master
mage that is), but not everyone has magery in the 91+ range.
Hell, running should do something too. And why cant we throw daggers?
you know just like in the movies.. heh (kidding if you dont know.)
And the only way you can kill a PK weilding a heavy is either 1) you
have an awsome connection and he lives in russia AND you have UOAssist 2)
you have a heavy and have an awsome connection 3) you somehow get him to
stop (LAG) and steal his bolts then rape him.
The most "honourable" fight i ever had is when in town, a rival guild
member attacked me with a heavy xbow and i ran and healed and said "shit no
bolts" he then took out a halbard and we both fought, i killed him with 80%
life to spare (he was a GM archer/master swords/tacs, i was GM
swords/tacs/master archer). But it wasnt very fair to him.. because he was
used to 15 second kills with running.
So i guess sometimes you run into the "nice foes".
JEREMY KASDORF wrote in message <35F0DE7B...@home.com>...
>them, I really dont care. Just don't whine about your inability to
Nelson
> using it. Please..... Taking away the use of GH Potions will take
> care of a lot of the problems with the PK Archer. :)
Lynn, your persistence in making this generalization is starting to tick
me off. Some players dont like pks, and they dont like archers because
pks tend to be archer/mages--but that is not how everyone feels. Many
players who are calling for the balancing of archery do so for the clear
and simple reason that archery NEEDS to be balanced.
PvP combat is where the imbalance in archery is particularly acute, and
I can recall when the archery "fad" began, I was constantly seeing lone
semi-newbie archer picking off GM swordsman and mace fighters with
rediculous ease. The thought of a GM archer being able to go toe-to-toe
with a plate mail, bardiche swinging swordsman, is not only unrealistic,
its revolting.
Archery should do the kind of damage it does now--FROM A DISTANCE! A
healthy distance.
Not when the opponent is standing in front of the bowman.
The UO myth that archery is equivalent to modern firearms, in that a
bowyer can actually run a few steps, spin about and fire his arrows like
a reloading a pistol clip, is precisely that--a myth. Bowyers fired
arrows from a distance, taking in range and wind factor in adjusting the
appropriate angle of fire.
In reality, archers were weak. Archery units were used to "soften" the
enemies before the infantry moved in to do the "grunt work". Pitch an
archer against a knight in single combat, the knight will heartily
thrash the archer each and everytime--that is not so on UO, an archer
can actually take a step back, load his heavy crossbow while he is
moving, and fire it even when a hulking bardiche is brought down over
his head.
I love my archer. I love picking off opponents from a distance as they
try to flee from battle. But if sacrificing my archer's usefulness in
close hand combat will compel people to use swordsmanship and mace
fighting other than when they run out of arrows and bolts, then lets do
it.
What weapons pks will or will not use is irrelevant. You and I both
agree that regardless of what changes OSI implements, pks will always
find the weapon that will enhance their PvP experience--which is why
that if archery was truly balance, you would see pks with a variety of
weapon types, rather than just archery and energy bolts.
Twilight of Chesapeake
Nelson
> I think it is about time to pack it in. Its becoming more frustrating
> than fun now days. :(
>
Well, pretty much every old-timer that I know feels the same way, myself
included..:(
I dont know if its possible or not to implement my idea regarding
archery, but I would hope that OSI would try a better solution other
than "nix the archery damage", which is really just a short-term
treatment for the problem. I do know that it is more time-consuming and
expensive to craft arrows and bolts than it is to repair swords and
maces, but that alone is not a justification to make archery the
equivalent of an ultimate weapon. I agree with you in the sense that
reducing archery damage will not alone solve the problem.
I have 2 ideas that can remedy the archery imbalance:
1) An archer should not be able to fire at anyone who is standing in
front of them.
2) If an archer is struck by a weapon at close range, he or she should
be disrupted from shooting arrows(time delay in rate of fire should be
reset), just like mages.
Keep archery damage the way it is now.
Just my thoughts anyway.
Twilight
Dennis Francis Heffernan
|I have 2 ideas that can remedy the archery imbalance:
|
|1) An archer should not be able to fire at anyone who is standing in
|front of them.
|
|2) If an archer is struck by a weapon at close range, he or she should
|be disrupted from shooting arrows(time delay in rate of fire should be
|reset), just like mages.
Which is what they are doing (read Stratics) and it will destroy the skill
for PvP use, and severely disadvantage it against mobs.
We do not have distance, we cannot have distance, we will never have
distance. A PC can be on top of Venture in half the time it takes him to fire
now, and they're going to throw a one-second delay on top of that. You will
never get a shot off against a PC.
Like Lynn, I played an archer from the word go; I wanted one before I even
started the game. This will basically destroy the viability of my character's
conception. Since I don't cheat it took me four months to earn Master Archer
status; it's really going to suck to have to let that atrophy.
Dennis F. Heffernan UO: Venture (Catskills) Dennis.H...@gte.net
Montclair State U #include <disclaim.h> ICQ:9154048 CompSci/Philosophy
"They feed you on the guilt to keep you humble, keep you low/Some man and
myth they made up a thousand years ago." Melissa Ethridge, "Silent Legacy"
Undertaker-XH (KGDL-KGC)
>
> Snip
>
> > Just don't whine about your inability to
> >fight these PKs wielding heavies, because I know for a fact they can be
> >killed.
>
> them at once
> I have NEVER in 8 months of playing fought a pk where he didnt have his
> "Buddies".
Must be the shard you're on. A lot of us PK'd solo before stat loss. I
still do even with it but not as much.
UT
Rob Wzierbovsky
>Archery is a distance weapon. So is Magic. Are you advocating taking
>ALL distance weapons out of the game? That would be the only way
>to solve your complaint. The PK is always going to use the best weapon
>for his purpose. :(
Well.. i've got a adventuring buddy with me on Lake Superior who helps
differentiate between the two: archery component costs are far less
than magery, you're far less likely to run out of bolts than regs, you
don't have a problem with squeezing out more than 4 shots (or e bolts)
in a fight (as compared to the average 70 mana for mages), you can't
reflect a bolt or arrow, and it's much easier macroing to a GM archer
than a GM mage. Really- what realistic comparison is there?
Rob W.
Jack Benny
The only change I would make would be to take away the ability to drink
potions
*or*
The act of drinking a potion occurs at the time of your next possible
attack, thereby taking your ability to do damage for that "round" since
you were drinking a potion and not arming an arrow.
Jack
Undertaker-XH (KGDL-KGC)
[SNIP]
> And the only way you can kill a PK weilding a heavy is either 1) you
> have an awsome connection and he lives in russia AND you have UOAssist 2)
> you have a heavy and have an awsome connection 3) you somehow get him to
> stop (LAG) and steal his bolts then rape him.
I really don't understand all the fuss in this thread. Archers are not
that tuff to take out. The best archery weapon happens to be a superior
regular bow. It shoots faster and does 15-20 damage per shot. However,
A mage with a sword can take this guy out just as easily as any other
character type depending on the individuals skill. The only problem
that I see with archery, and it's not the damage, is that when an archer
moves, the firing clock should start over. This of course would require
OSI to disable the follow the attacker feature that I know most of us
hate! It is reasonalbe that an archer with a XHvy can take out a player
in 3 shots, a xbow in 3-5, and a regular in 5-7. It is also reasonable
that a swordsman can take out a plaer in 4-5 hits. The latter is the
problem because the swordsman can't. A mage can take out most players
with three casts (baring GH's, healing, and reflect). The problem is
NOT in archery but rather in the imbalance of the other weapons. For
haha's I fought an orc with a brand new viking sword. It took almost 15
minutes to kill the friggin orc and he damaged me just as much as I was
damaging him. That's nonsense.
My characters are (when combat ready) 100 tactics/99.+ archer/95.+
weapon (preferably sword because it can be deadly poisoned)/92.1+
Magery/65+ hiding/45+ tracking/65+ wrestling (because you have no choice
in the matter)/70+ resist (preferably in the 90's but I, like most of
you, have not cheated to get it there but I think I'm going to because I
know that most that I fight have 90+ resist).
Because of the cheating that has occured with resist, I think that OSI,
if they have the cheat methods fixed, should reset everyone above 50 to
50. If they don't then people like me are going to balance for
themselves and just cheat our way there like the other players did.
[SNIP]
UT
The Master
> Nerfing the Archer will NOT cut down on PK'ing, it will just change
> HOW they do it, and they will be just as efficient at it as they are
> now.
I disagree. I see a few reports of extended fights with pk, but most reports
seem to be like my own experiences, where the fight is over in seconds, with
the victim either dead or recalled away. What causes this is the shear amount
of damage that can be quickly dished out, by magic, bows, and bugged or hacked
weapons. If it took longer to kill someone, then pking would not be anywhere
near the problem it is. Reducing damage for archery and high-end spells, or
increasing the value of armor, and eliminating illegal weapons (pre-patch, new
hack, etc), are the right things to do.
That and armor restrictions for thieving, archery, and magic, and returning
stollen goods when the thief is made a good thief, would do more for this game
than all the T2A's they could possibly come up with.
jx...@po.cwru.edu
Except bows don't do more damage as is. Using a bow and heavy crossbow
against a guildmate using 2-handed fencing and swords, and both me and
my guildmate being grandmasters now with our chosen weapon(s), I find
that although each arrow/bolt does more damage, I also seem to miss a
few more shots than my guildmate, and we end up dealing similar damage
to each other during the course of the fight. I used the typical
move/run, stop and shoot method, he kept moving at all times, even when
next to me(which may very well have made me miss shots, something I'm
beginning to believe), since he did not have to stop to swing. As the
melee weapons used are two-handed weapons, the *only* fix I see
necessary to archery is to remove the ability to quaff potions while
shooting.
Admittedly, the melee skills need rebalancing, as there are no 2-handed
mace fighting weapon comparable to those in swords or fencing, and
wrestling is extremely weak....
-Hawke, Sonoma Ranger (once again a grandmaster archer....no macroing!)
Ian
>that a swordsman can take out a plaer in 4-5 hits
And the viking and the katana or dagger/skinning knives are the only
ones where you can actually have a decent chance of swinging while the
archer is running.
> It took almost 15
>minutes to kill the friggin orc and he damaged me just as much as I was
>damaging him. That's nonsense.
>
>My characters are (when combat ready) 100 tactics/95.+
>weapon (preferably sword because it can be deadly poisoned
<rest of bragging snipped>
And yes it should reset the clock, thats what the whole fuss is about.
Damage is just a bonus.
Each time a swordsman swings and the archer runs the clock for the swordsman
is reset, the archer, no.
And has that archery patch come in yet? I dont think so.. osi SAID they
would have it "in a few weeks" over 2 months ago, what happened?
From what i have heard a heavy xbow still does up to 40 if you have one of
like might or force; unless you are like a friggen neophyte archer.
Ian
Ian
the ability to fire while moving (moving doesnt reset your fire time but for
"non archers" it does).
Jack Benny wrote in message <35F596...@fish.sandwich>...
Sophist
jx...@po.cwru.edu says...
>
> Admittedly, the melee skills need rebalancing, as there are no 2-handed
> mace fighting weapon comparable to those in swords or fencing, and
> wrestling is extremely weak....
>
> -Hawke, Sonoma Ranger (once again a grandmaster archer....no macroing!)
>
On the wrestling skill I read what I thought was a very
interesting suggestion. Make it so with when wrestling you
have the chance of disarming your foe. With the advent of
the auto arm/disarm key just around the corner you'd need to
put a time limit on when one could re-arm of course after a
wrestler disarmed them. But it is an interesting idea that
has a lot of merit. It would certainly add something useful
to what is a now a pretty ineffective combat skill.
Sophist
jx...@po.cwru.edu
resets swing times for melee fighters? Because that is certainly not
the case in my experience. While trying out PvP with a guildmate, my
guildmate using a melee weapon and constantly moving, it seems that the
swing time for melee weapons is reset only when the target becomes out
of range. In other words, he had no problem hitting me while moving
around me in a tight circle, nor did he have any problems when we were
both moving and he maintained contact.
As for archery, well, although an archer can shoot when moving, the
arrow/bolt will miss. Admittedly, there's no reset of the delay between
shots....
-Hawke, Sonoma Ranger(ex-gm archer *again*)
Ian
>both moving and he maintained contact.
If you move so that the person cant touch you....... all he was doing is
going around you.. big deal.
jx...@po.cwru.edu
contact, or at least enough contact to swing. Especially when using a
fast weapon. I was using standard PvP tactics, and he was dishing as
much damage to me as I was doing to him.
-Hawke, Sonoma Ranger
Corwyn
>
> On Sun, 06 Sep 1998 05:00:36 -0400, Nelson <twil...@sprint.ca> wrote:
>
> |I have 2 ideas that can remedy the archery imbalance:
> |
> |1) An archer should not be able to fire at anyone who is standing in
> |front of them.
> |
> |2) If an archer is struck by a weapon at close range, he or she should
> |be disrupted from shooting arrows(time delay in rate of fire should be
> |reset), just like mages.
>
> Which is what they are doing (read Stratics) and it will destroy the skill
> for PvP use, and severely disadvantage it against mobs.
>
> We do not have distance, we cannot have distance, we will never have
> distance. A PC can be on top of Venture in half the time it takes him to fire
> now, and they're going to throw a one-second delay on top of that. You will
> never get a shot off against a PC.
>
> Like Lynn, I played an archer from the word go; I wanted one before I even
> started the game. This will basically destroy the viability of my character's
> conception. Since I don't cheat it took me four months to earn Master Archer
> status; it's really going to suck to have to let that atrophy.
>
volleys which
of course has nothing to do with the discussion on rebalancing it for a
game but......
Only having to click once to target with a bow is the unfair part.....
maybe let
the targetting last for two shots then you have to reaquire your target?
Corwyn
>
> On Sat, 5 Sep 1998 15:22:56 -0600, "Ian" <i...@v-wave.com> wrote:
>
> >I disagree strongly. If you think for a second ...dieing in 15 seconds just
> >by arrows at the cost of 6gp per bolt, lets say 5 bolts.. 30gp kill. Is it
> >fun to die that way?
> >Now, lets say you are a swordsman and came across an archer, no way, your
> >dead without recall.
> >I know most of the people have the attitude "if you cant fight em, join em".
> >
> > But you are basically ruining their ability to have fun, if a person
> >comes along with a viking sword, all you do is run and shoot; it is pretty
> >lame. You dont even give them a chance to hit. Now if he got disconnected,
> >all you would have to do is sit 2 paces away from him ready to loot.
> >
> ALL distance weapons out of the game? That would be the only way
> to solve your complaint. The PK is always going to use the best weapon
> for his purpose. :(
>
I believe the idea behind balancing the weapons is to make it so that no
one
weapon is too much better then the others. Where the differences come
in is
how the weapon is used. I think archer is a little too powerful. Thing
is its
hard to come up with a realistic reason for having archery they
effective and to
have armoured knights with halberds. If it was RL you would simply kill
off
all the armoured knights and be left with bowmen. With the game the
intention
is to have a mix of combat tools available but also in a rough parity.
Now the idea of archery missing more often when close to the target is
nice.
What happens. Well the guy with the sword runs close to the archer and
neither
can hit one another.... UNTIL the swordsman lets the archer get some
distance
or the archer is better at zipping around obstacles. But then all that
running sounds tiring so I don't know what the answer is.
Of course, the lady I spend most of my UO time with is an archer.....
Now
the times we spar I wouldn't mind getting one good swipe at that bow and
splitting the bow or is string.
Corwyn
> Dennis, we may as well DELETE our Archers. :( If this is the way it
> turns out I will also be DELETING the game and canceling my account.
> I WILL NOT spend more time developing another character after a
> year with the ones I have. :(
Well... you might want to at least play a little with the change
just in case its not as bad as you thought it would be.
> This change will NOT eliminate the PK's, they will still be there to
> spoil every ones fun. :( It will eliminate me and others like me that
> have spent time on our characters, only to see them destroyed. :(
>
> A VERY UNHAPPY LadyLyn, (Atlantic)
The archer does need a tiny bit of weakening..... I just can't think
of anything that won't weaken it greatly. Maybe if the archer had
to target for each shot? That would give swordsmen the chance to fight
them. Course I have sparred with an archer... might be damn close
anyway but then thats the idea. Maybe the archer only has to retarget
if they move more then one tile quickly? So if an archer was standing
still slugging it out toe to toe no need to retarget. If the archer
is running around then they have to retarget every shot. Against
animals this would likely make little difference... in pvp a much
bigger difference. Might not be the answer but its another avenue to
persue.