Voodoo and Ultima 7......
Ophidian Dragon
I got into contact with several former Origin employees concerning the
Voodoo memory manager, and here is what they said--THey all worked with U7,
but the last one was the guy who actually made Voodoo, apparently....
-------------
I've never seen the Voodoo code, but in general...
This suggestion assumes modular code insulated by an API that hides all
implementation details. If this is the case, then sure its that easy.
Ditto for sound sub-sytems, video sub-systems, etc.
I can't think of many systems I saw during my stay at Origin that fit
this criteria (not that this is a problem unique to Origin). Even when a
code package was written to be relatively modular, it tended to get
hacked up pretty badly by the clients.
Again, I've never seen the Voodoo code, so this really isn't an answer
to your question. I just like to plug modular insulated code whenever
possible ;-)
-------------
From what I looked at in the U7 code, I'd forget about trying to get it
to work. First of all it would have to be a recompile. Its also 16 bit
code designed for 'big real mode' which is how the Voodoo works. I'm
sure maybe a programmer out there who would have smoked enough crack may
want to port it to use the Pharlap 16bit extender (ala Ultima 8 and
Crusader) but even that would be far too much work.
--------------
I've seen the code, VooDoo was an API and although it didn't hide the
implementation details, it was black box enough that most people stuck with
the generic function calls. I also seem to remember that it returned
pointers to flat memory (though not of the official type as we know it
today...)
So...In theory, if someone REALLY wanted to... They could probably
intercept the unique function signatures, and redirect the calls, and get a
semi-working version...Maybe...
(Course they're building full blown emulators of Arcade machines on PC's
now... so who knows how far someone will go...)
Now if we could just get Mickeysoft to stick with the API's they develop...
---------------
Well Folks,
VooDoo is NOT a memory manager! That is all
marketings idea! It is just usage of Intel's "Big
Real" mode, it was a fully documented operating mode
for all Intel processors. The companies who shipped
the other Memory managers failed to include support
for this mode and they shipped just before we
shipped. So they could not work together. Awhile
later the Memory manager companies added the VCPI
standard which could be used to allow VooDoo to run
but no one wanted to pay for the change to Ultima 7
(Because we where almost ready to ship Ultima 8).
As an Aside, Ultima and 7.5 (Serpent Isle) would
never have made it out the door without using Voodoo.
Under regular real mode (with overlays) it ran at 1
frame per second, and under EMS it ran at 5 frames
per second. This was after an enormous amount of
optimization. Remember U7 was targteted at a "386
16MHz SX" (does anyone remember this machine?). After
switching to Voodoo the target platform ran at 17 fps!
Our contact at Intel told us that Intel had always
assumed "Big Real Mode" was the future for OS's and
extensions on their processors.
Good Luck!
------------------
-Ophidian Dragon
Michael Carmack
Ophidian Dragon (dev...@ix.takethisout.netcom.com) wrote:
: I got into contact with several former Origin employees concerning the
: Voodoo memory manager, and here is what they said--THey all worked with U7,
: but the last one was the guy who actually made Voodoo, apparently....
Hmm, cool stuff. Sounds to me that U7 could in fact be reworked for Win95,
given the source code and the "API" specs for the Voodoo calls.
--
Mike Carmack mcar...@freenet.columbus.oh.us
Vulcan Dragon -==(UDIC)==- mr_...@ix.netcom.com
*** Howdie Ho! *** http://www.netcom.com/~mr_worf/vulcan.htm
Fortran Dragon
My glass typewriter shows Ophidian Dragon saying...
>
> I got into contact with several former Origin employees concerning the
> Voodoo memory manager, and here is what they said--THey all worked with U7,
> but the last one was the guy who actually made Voodoo, apparently....
Great work 'Phid! Thanks. Now we have some real information to
argue about. :)
--
Fortran Dragon -==(UDIC)==- | "There isn't enough darkness in the world
-=={MDLAM}==- | to quench the light of one small candle."
Hidalgo Trading Company: http://www.ponyexpress.net/~xyzzy/index.html
Michael Milirud
>: I got into contact with several former Origin employees concerning the
>: Voodoo memory manager, and here is what they said--THey all worked with
U7,
>: but the last one was the guy who actually made Voodoo, apparently....
>
>given the source code and the "API" specs for the Voodoo calls.
Maybe someday OSI will make the code for old Ultimas public and Dragon
programmers will be able to port it to newer systems themselves...
Michael
Ophidian Dragon
Michael Milirud <mic...@idirect.com> wrote in article
<6bd20f$7...@moon.pepperdine.edu>...
>
Maybe someday OSI will make the code for old Ultimas public and Dragon
> programmers will be able to port it to newer systems themselves...
<Ophidian yells at his pig, trying to get it to fly....>
-Ophidian Dragon
J P Morris
Ophidian Dragon wrote:
>
> I got into contact with several former Origin employees concerning the
> Voodoo memory manager, and here is what they said--THey all worked with U7,
> but the last one was the guy who actually made Voodoo, apparently....
That was very interesting.
Could you find out where the source for U7 still exists, as there was a
nasty rumour that it got lost...
[He says sitting in an office, surrounded by the source code for
DRDOS 5,6,7 GEM/3 and lots of other Digital Research goodies :-)]
--
* JP Morris aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- *
* b5...@usa.net Author of the U6 developer's kit *
**************************************************************
* Visit http://ithe.home.ml.org - about Ultima, Doom & AViOS *
Michael Carmack
Michael Milirud (mic...@idirect.com) wrote:
: Maybe someday OSI will make the code for old Ultimas public and Dragon
: programmers will be able to port it to newer systems themselves...
Many people, myself included, have offered to do just that. Given the
source code to U4 (actually the original pseudocode would be better, since
U4 was in assembly), for example, it would be no problem to make a VB5 port.
Michael Carmack
J P Morris (b5...@usa.net) wrote:
: That was very interesting.
: Could you find out where the source for U7 still exists, as there was a
: nasty rumour that it got lost...
It was Serpent Isle's souce code that was lost, not Black Gate's.
Fortran Dragon
My glass typewriter shows J P Morris saying...
[Snip]
> That was very interesting.
> Could you find out where the source for U7 still exists, as there was a
> nasty rumour that it got lost...
Heh. I guess Bill Armintrout (Project Manager?) was spreading rumors when he
told us that Origin didn't save the source code for Serpent Isle and Silver Seed. :)
DBarr
It's a shame they didn't lose the Ultima 8 source code just before it
was finished. :)
>My glass typewriter shows J P Morris saying...
>[Snip]
>> That was very interesting.
>> Could you find out where the source for U7 still exists, as there was a
>> nasty rumour that it got lost...
>
> Heh. I guess Bill Armintrout (Project Manager?) was spreading rumors when he
>told us that Origin didn't save the source code for Serpent Isle and Silver Seed. :)
___________________________________________________________________
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Walker
In the candlelit library of the darkened Keep, a book flicks open
to a page where xy...@ponyexpress.net (Fortran Dragon) has written...
>My glass typewriter shows J P Morris saying...
>[Snip]
>> That was very interesting.
>> Could you find out where the source for U7 still exists, as there was a
>> nasty rumour that it got lost...
>
> Heh. I guess Bill Armintrout (Project Manager?) was spreading rumors when he
>told us that Origin didn't save the source code for Serpent Isle and Silver Seed. :)
>
How the hell do you _lose_ source code anyway?!!??
[The candle flickers as Walker once again resumes his poring over
the Histories] Walker -==(UDIC)==-
d+++ e-- N+ T?;) Om++ U6!7'!S'!8 u+++ uC++ uF++ uG++++/--- uLB+ uA- nC++ nH+ nP nPT nS+++ nT+
Ophidian Dragon
Walker <Wal...@Spam.disembowelling.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<34db621d...@news.demon.co.uk>...
> In the candlelit library of the darkened Keep, a book flicks open
>
>
> How the hell do you _lose_ source code anyway?!!??
>
They deleted it when they were supposed to back it up.
I'm not sure, but it's possible it wasn't completely lost--they said they
didn't have the sourcecode to SI and SS. DOes that mean they lost it to
*BOTH* SI and SS? Or does it mean they just lost it to the game that
results from combining SI and SS? I guess the former, but since SS came
after SI, it seems odd they would have lost the copy of the SI code which
was presumably backed up after the original game shipped.....
If you get extremely lucky and the Voodoo in U7 was the same as in SI, it
might not matter. You could just replace the relevant voodoo files, and
never even need to look at the SI sourcecode.
-Ophidian Dragon
Andrew Charlton
Walker writes:
>How the hell do you _lose_ source code anyway?!!??
"Hey, dude! Do you have a backup of Serpent Isle?"
"*grunt*"
"Okay, then, I'm deleting this one - Windows wants more swap space!"
--
____/\___ Erraticus
___/__\__) -==(UDIC)==-
(__/ \__ |\/|
/ \ \/
Rob Davies
Walker wrote:
>
> In the candlelit library of the darkened Keep, a book flicks open
> >My glass typewriter shows J P Morris saying...
> >[Snip]
> >> That was very interesting.
> >> Could you find out where the source for U7 still exists, as there was a
> >> nasty rumour that it got lost...
> >
> > Heh. I guess Bill Armintrout (Project Manager?) was spreading rumors when he
> >told us that Origin didn't save the source code for Serpent Isle and Silver Seed. :)
> >
>
Hit Y when it asks you if you "Really want to Format C:?". Simple. ;)
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