High expectations are a real problem...
Jared Mark
How many of us aspire to be the president of the united states?
How many of us always wanted to be a lawyer, doctor, architect, baseball
player, football player, basketball player... you get the point...
Now, translate to Ultima Online...
How many of you want to be a Great Lord GrandMaster whatever??? Got
news for you folks... in any sort of multiplayer game, it's not SUPPOSED
to be easy to do...
I think the problem has it's source from many years of conditioning in
single player games. How often have we played the pilot of some super
machine, able to destroy 500 enemies without ever refueling or rearming?
How often have we been able to max out on all of the nice little goodies
and become the biggest baddest person around?
How often have we been able to exploit some sort of bug, or oversight in
a game and as a result, beat the game without much effort? (I remember
once I found the hex addresses of all the gold, stats, and items for
Ultima 5 in the savegame file... I put them all up to 99, and won the
game in 3 game days... dont worry, this was after having beat it
legitimately 3 times)...
Anyway, we are much too used to having things go our way all the time...
Hell, how many times did you just shut off your computer when playing
Ultima 4 and your guy got killed? Hell, just restart from the saved
game, and those last few moments are forgotten, right?
How many times have you saved a game just before going into a
particularly tough part of it, and had to restore it over and over again
until you got lucky, or got it right?
I really think that most of this bitching is coming from the people that
are too accustomed to getting what they want... In ultima online, there
are many people in competition with you, trying to do the same things
you are doing... the best survive... it's really suprisingly
Darwinistic... You can't just save the game before going to that spawn
point... you cant edit your character with a hex editor to give him what
he needs to beat the game... in fact, how do you "beat" this game? You
dont...
Bottom line, people are having problems merely COPING with the concept
of this game... it's not a "win or lose" situation... there is no real
final outcome, save perminant death (which I would love to see
implimented... this resurection shit is stupid). People don't know how
to play a role play. (no, it's not ROLL (as in rolling dice) playing...
it's ROLE playing... you play a role, you act a part, you become someone
you are not in a fantasy world)...
In previous Ultimas, all merchants/shopkeepers had unlimited gold... In
previous ultimas, it was you, and you alone, vs all of the monsters of
the world... In Ultima 4 and 5, I don't think I ever ran into an NPC
outside a town... only monsters. All the monsters were mine for the
killing, and their loot was mine for the selling... I didn't have to
worry about weight of the items... I could have 99 platemail armors,
sell them all, and make a killing.
Now what do we have? It's called REALISM folks... you CANT expect the
world to cater to you... and merchants sometimes DO NOT NEED what you
have to sell... Sometimes merchants dont have the gold required to buy
things off of you because someone else has sold them something they need
first.
To be completely honest, and a little bit tactless, I think most of
these people complaining about the realism of the game simply can't
handle the realism of real life... Most of them are the true internet
geeks/nerds that have but one purpose for being in the internet...
because they have no lives elsewhere. Much too often, these people are
used to things going their way... they play their games, master them by
figuring out the little quirks that allow you to do things easier, and
now they are just so fucking upset that this new game doesn't have many
of those standard quirks, they are bitching and moaning all over the
place trying to either boycott Origin, or just make a stink whenever and
wherever they can.
To these people, I say: Go back to Diablows, where you can cheat, and
hack, and make yourself a God among Gods... Go back where you belong,
where those that win the game, or at least rule it, are not those that
play the game the way it was meant to be played, but those that know how
to hack the best...
NOW GO AWAY OR I SHALL TAUNT YOU A SECOND TIME! -MP Holy Grail (as if
you didn't know).
Jared Mark
(p.s.: yes, Dave and Greg Mark are my brothers, and we are all pretty
much of the same opinion)...
Lost Dragon
>implimented... this resurection shit is stupid). People don't know how
>to play a role play. (no, it's not ROLL (as in rolling dice) playing...
Yes, they do. And given opportunity, most will. UO does not give
enough opportunity. People want a simulated *fantasy* medieval world,
where the drudgeries of common life are taken care of by NPCs. When
was the last time you cranked up an AD&D session to play the part of
"Frederick, the commoner"? When was the last time you whipped out
GURPS because you wanted to play the part of "Johne
I-can't-find-anybody-to-buy-my-furs Smith"?
>it's ROLE playing... you play a role, you act a part, you become someone
>you are not in a fantasy world)...
Most people do not wish to play an uninteresting role. Virtual
fishing is not as much fun as the real thing, sorry to say.
>Now what do we have? It's called REALISM folks... you CANT expect the
<Snicker> Realism. <Cough> Yah, right. Broken realism maybe.
>To be completely honest, and a little bit tactless, I think most of
>these people complaining about the realism of the game simply can't
>handle the realism of real life... Most of them are the true internet
Nice stereotype. Did you take a hard look in the mirror to conjure
that one up?
>used to things going their way... they play their games, master them by
>figuring out the little quirks that allow you to do things easier, and
Actually, most people I know who play CRPGs have a strong base in the
old P&P games and know exactly what it means to lose a character.
>now they are just so darned upset that this new game doesn't have many
>of those standard quirks, they are whining and moaning all over the
Most of the uproar seems to be over broken features, and/or bugs.
>play the game the way it was meant to be played, but those that know how
>to hack the best...
Your rant is misdirected.
>(p.s.: yes, Dave and Greg Mark are my brothers, and we are all pretty
>much of the same opinion)...
Whoopee.
--
/| .oo__. .-----.=- Lost Dragon -=.-----. U
{ \| ,-'' | _O_ |==- Dungeon Bane: A New Shareware CRPG -==| _O_ | D
`,_/'(_)\_ | | |===-- http://www.cris.com/~lostdrgn/ --===| | | I
<...{_)_)_''`-----`====-- Keeper of the Lost Virtues --===='-----' C
R. Serena Wakefield
My spies inform me that, on Sat, 18 Oct 1997 04:38:57 GMT,
lost...@cris.com (Lost Dragon), hiding under the bedcovers, scribbled
in the following in their diary:
>>implimented... this resurection shit is stupid). People don't know how
>>to play a role play. (no, it's not ROLL (as in rolling dice) playing...
>Yes, they do. And given opportunity, most will. UO does not give
>enough opportunity. People want a simulated *fantasy* medieval world,
>where the drudgeries of common life are taken care of by NPCs. When
>was the last time you cranked up an AD&D session to play the part of
>"Frederick, the commoner"? When was the last time you whipped out
>GURPS because you wanted to play the part of "Johne
>I-can't-find-anybody-to-buy-my-furs Smith"?
I've run merchants as AD&D characters -- said merchants travelled the
world selling Exotick Goodes and dealing in magical items, rare
spices, imported silks and such. They also tended to be warriors or
bards on the side. It's a fun role, and totally impossible in UO.
The ability to run a business is a great asset, but player involvement
in the economy has to consist either of interesting travelling
businesses OR simple ownership of an NPC-run business. I might well
want to buy a tavern, but I'm going to want to pay an NPC to serve
drinks all night.
<snip>
>>Now what do we have? It's called REALISM folks... you CANT expect the
><Snicker> Realism. <Cough> Yah, right. Broken realism maybe.
Sure UO is realistic! I got killed four times on the way to class
yesterday, once for the loose change in my pocket, twice by psychotic
murderers, and once by a guy who just wanted to see if his sword was
sharp.
Kender Dragon (R. Serena Wakefield)
rai...@HOOPAK.gate.net (remove HOOPAK to e-mail)
Serena's Sanctuary: http://www.gate.net/~raistw
Matt Kimmich
On Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:30:24 -0500, Jared Mark <ja...@mark-4.com>
wrote:
<snip>
>Now what do we have? It's called REALISM folks... you CANT expect the
>world to cater to you... and merchants sometimes DO NOT NEED what you
>have to sell... Sometimes merchants dont have the gold required to buy
>things off of you because someone else has sold them something they need
>first.
>To be completely honest, and a little bit tactless, I think most of
>these people complaining about the realism of the game simply can't
>handle the realism of real life... Most of them are the true internet
>geeks/nerds that have but one purpose for being in the internet...
>because they have no lives elsewhere. Much too often, these people are
>used to things going their way... they play their games, master them by
>figuring out the little quirks that allow you to do things easier, and
>now they are just so fucking upset that this new game doesn't have many
>of those standard quirks, they are bitching and moaning all over the
>place trying to either boycott Origin, or just make a stink whenever and
>wherever they can.
Up to this point I thought you were simply someone with another
opinion - but now I'd actually say you're an arrogant ^H^H^H^H^H.
Also, your reasoning breaks down completely at that point. Obviously
you haven't read many of the posts on UO that have been around for
months now...
Why should people who can handle the realism of real life look for
exactly that in an online game? The logical thing would be for them to
play games to have a change from "the realism of real life". Also,
what's nerdy/geeky about not wanting to spend another half-hour going
to the nearest mine to collect ore and then being slain by the local
PK, or spending several hours collecting wood just to make a decent
living? RL often is tedious - and that's at least one thing a game
should never be.
I agree that there are people who simply moan and bitch, but your
putting almost everyone into that group is not very realistic IMO.
>To these people, I say: Go back to Diablows, where you can cheat, and
>hack, and make yourself a God among Gods... Go back where you belong,
>where those that win the game, or at least rule it, are not those that
>play the game the way it was meant to be played, but those that know how
>to hack the best...
There is a difference between being a God in UO and not being a worm.
The public who wants to play Ultima Online basically should be able to
say what they like about it and what not - or do you think your
opinion of what the game should be like is the only valid one?
--
Matt Kimmich, a.k.a. Thirith Dragon -=(UDIC)=-
"With writing, I find, you can have all the right ingredients, give plenty of time
and care, and still get nothing. Also true of love. Cooking, therefore, can keep a
person who tries hard sane." - John Irving, The World According to Garp
Matt Randall
>I really think that most of this bitching is coming from the people that
>are too accustomed to getting what they want... In ultima online, there
>are many people in competition with you, trying to do the same things
>you are doing... the best survive... it's really suprisingly
>Darwinistic... You can't just save the game before going to that spawn
>point... you cant edit your character with a hex editor to give him what
>he needs to beat the game... in fact, how do you "beat" this game? You
>dont...
You might be half-right, but most of the bitching I have seen is
coming from the people who end up dead and looted after a server crash
/ timewarp. Another problem with the "competition" thing is that a
few people had a jump-start on everyone else - and I don't mean they
got to play longer. There were (and probably still are) bugs and
balance problems that allowed people to build very high powered
characters in a very rapid amount of time. I wouldn't mind spending 2
months of play-time to build up a very skilled blacksmith or archer or
something, but I'm going to be peeved if some guy figured a way around
the system and did it in 3 days.
>Bottom line, people are having problems merely COPING with the concept
>of this game... it's not a "win or lose" situation... there is no real
>final outcome, save perminant death (which I would love to see
>implimented... this resurection shit is stupid). People don't know how
>to play a role play. (no, it's not ROLL (as in rolling dice) playing...
>it's ROLE playing... you play a role, you act a part, you become someone
>you are not in a fantasy world)...
Ressurection is stupid? Okay, you go ahead and spend a month
building up a good smith or something, just to have him permanently
killed by a newbie who happened to make a few lucky blows. And as for
role playing, you are right. There are probably many people who
purchase Ultima Online who have never experienced a role-playing game.
They probably treat the game as they would any other online game.
Does that mean we should shun them and not listen to their complaints?
>In previous Ultimas, all merchants/shopkeepers had unlimited gold... In
>previous ultimas, it was you, and you alone, vs all of the monsters of
>the world... In Ultima 4 and 5, I don't think I ever ran into an NPC
>outside a town... only monsters. All the monsters were mine for the
>killing, and their loot was mine for the selling... I didn't have to
>worry about weight of the items... I could have 99 platemail armors,
>sell them all, and make a killing.
>
>Now what do we have? It's called REALISM folks... you CANT expect the
>world to cater to you... and merchants sometimes DO NOT NEED what you
>have to sell... Sometimes merchants dont have the gold required to buy
>things off of you because someone else has sold them something they need
>first.
Ah, but that's the problem now isn't it? They are trying to
make it too real. There is too much supply in the world, and almost
nil demand. The factor of NPC's buying stuff from shops is very
little, which is insane. If the majority of the UO population is
considered only to be the players, then there is something seriously
wrong with the economy design. Even in Dungeons and Dragons the
supposed adventuring population is never more than 1% of the whole
population.
>To be completely honest, and a little bit tactless, I think most of
>these people complaining about the realism of the game simply can't
>handle the realism of real life... Most of them are the true internet
>geeks/nerds that have but one purpose for being in the internet...
>because they have no lives elsewhere. Much too often, these people are
>used to things going their way... they play their games, master them by
>figuring out the little quirks that allow you to do things easier, and
>now they are just so fucking upset that this new game doesn't have many
>of those standard quirks, they are bitching and moaning all over the
>place trying to either boycott Origin, or just make a stink whenever and
>wherever they can.
Uhhh dude are you ever wrong. I know about five people who
bought the game against my advice, and who are about clueless when it
comes to the net, and got royally pissed at the game. They weren't
upset that the game had no quirks - they were upset that it took a
long time to do anything interesting, they couldn't find any monsters,
quests, the server would crash, etc. Most people want fantasy
role-playing. They want to go into dungeons and abandoned keeps and
find traps and ancient and lost treasures. Unfortunately, that isn't
what this game is. It's just Sim-Ultima, where all of the dungeons
have already been looted and there are no new frontiers to explore.
My idea of fun isn't sitting around watiing for a monster to spawn,
nor is it sitting in town trying to pawn off leather boots.
>To these people, I say: Go back to Diablows, where you can cheat, and
>hack, and make yourself a God among Gods... Go back where you belong,
>where those that win the game, or at least rule it, are not those that
>play the game the way it was meant to be played, but those that know how
>to hack the best...
I'm afraid these ex-Diablo players want to play UO, where they
find the best loopholes in the game that they can and abuse them until
they are gods amongst men. And this time, only the smart bug abusers
will get to be the best.... It's been done in UO, and since UO is
still not finished, it's going to continue to happen. Bugs will
appear as the game as modified, and a great many of them won't be
caught right away, and so people will abuse abuse abuse.
As a side note I don't participate in the complaining about UO
because I really don't want to play the game anymore. I have had my
fill of it. I have a Dungeons and Dragons group, and I'm afraid good
old person to person interaction and the power of the human
imagination still blows away any computer generated universe that
anyone can think up, even if it does have a few thousands whackos
running around in it.
All of this, is of course, IMHO.
Matt Randall
Richard S Pastorius
> are too accustomed to getting what they want... In ultima online, there
> are many people in competition with you, trying to do the same things
> you are doing... the best survive... it's really suprisingly
> Darwinistic... You can't just save the game before going to that spawn
> point... you cant edit your character with a hex editor to give him what
> he needs to beat the game... in fact, how do you "beat" this game? You
> dont...
>
> of this game... it's not a "win or lose" situation... there is no real
> final outcome, save perminant death (which I would love to see
> implimented... this resurection shit is stupid). People don't know how
> to play a role play. (no, it's not ROLL (as in rolling dice) playing...
> it's ROLE playing... you play a role, you act a part, you become someone
> you are not in a fantasy world)...
>
> previous ultimas, it was you, and you alone, vs all of the monsters of
> the world... In Ultima 4 and 5, I don't think I ever ran into an NPC
> outside a town... only monsters. All the monsters were mine for the
> killing, and their loot was mine for the selling... I didn't have to
> worry about weight of the items... I could have 99 platemail armors,
> sell them all, and make a killing.
>
> Now what do we have? It's called REALISM folks... you CANT expect the
> world to cater to you... and merchants sometimes DO NOT NEED what you
> have to sell... Sometimes merchants dont have the gold required to buy
> things off of you because someone else has sold them something they need
> first.
>
> these people complaining about the realism of the game simply can't
> handle the realism of real life... Most of them are the true internet
> geeks/nerds that have but one purpose for being in the internet...
> because they have no lives elsewhere. Much too often, these people are
> used to things going their way... they play their games, master them by
> figuring out the little quirks that allow you to do things easier, and
> now they are just so fucking upset that this new game doesn't have many
> of those standard quirks, they are bitching and moaning all over the
> place trying to either boycott Origin, or just make a stink whenever and
> wherever they can.
>
> hack, and make yourself a God among Gods... Go back where you belong,
> where those that win the game, or at least rule it, are not those that
> play the game the way it was meant to be played, but those that know how
> to hack the best...
>
> you didn't know).
>
> Jared Mark
> much of the same opinion)...
Amen to THAT.
Richard S Pastorius
Lost Dragon wrote:
>
> >implimented... this resurection shit is stupid). People don't know how
> >to play a role play. (no, it's not ROLL (as in rolling dice) playing...
>
> enough opportunity. People want a simulated *fantasy* medieval world,
> where the drudgeries of common life are taken care of by NPCs. When
> was the last time you cranked up an AD&D session to play the part of
> "Frederick, the commoner"? When was the last time you whipped out
> GURPS because you wanted to play the part of "Johne
> I-can't-find-anybody-to-buy-my-furs Smith"?
>
> >you are not in a fantasy world)...
>
> fishing is not as much fun as the real thing, sorry to say.
>
>
>
> >these people complaining about the realism of the game simply can't
> >handle the realism of real life... Most of them are the true internet
>
> that one up?
>
> >figuring out the little quirks that allow you to do things easier, and
>
> old P&P games and know exactly what it means to lose a character.
>
> >now they are just so darned upset that this new game doesn't have many
> >of those standard quirks, they are whining and moaning all over the
>
> Most of the uproar seems to be over broken features, and/or bugs.
I beg to differ. Most of the complaints I read in here, or see in uO
from other PCs is how hard it is to advance. I cant tell you how many
ppl have asked me "Where can I buy Parrying?"
"BUY" parrying?? that doesnt even make sense. As a real life fencer and
heavy armoured foot cambat entusiast, parrying (for that matter ALL
related warrior skills) must be learned by doing. Again, its ppl looking
for " quick fixes" or "cheats" to advance faster than everyone else and
become a "God among Gods"
Dave Mark
That would be considered a Newsgroup PK!!
Richard S Pastorius
Dave Mark wrote:
>
> One of my kids has been learning the difference between pretend and real
> at school. You guys want to sit it? You could even just tune in to Mr.
> "Won't you be my neighbor" Rogers.
>
> The point of all of this is that it is a fantasy world made as realistic
> as possible. It's not a video game where you can kick one butt after
> another. That's what is meant by "realistic." Doh!
YEAH! If you dont like UO, dont log on.
Less lag for everyone who enjoys UO. And more loot for me . . . .
Richard S Pastorius
Dave Mark wrote:
>
> That would be considered a Newsgroup PK!!
understand?
Lost Dragon
>I beg to differ. Most of the complaints I read in here, or see in uO
>from other PCs is how hard it is to advance. I cant tell you how many
It's supposed to be hard to advance. It took me hundreds of hours of
play to become "god-like" in m-MUD, and I still wasn't the toughest
thing in the neighborhood (though that character was to be respected,
under penalty of death).
That said, most of the comments in the UO newsgroup seem to center on
lag, server problems, pkillers (if/how they should be killed) and
various broken features (IE: notoriety system).
>ppl have asked me "Where can I buy Parrying?"
They probably mean "where can I learn parrying". Most people don't
want to rush into combat and learn their skills on the fly.
>related warrior skills) must be learned by doing. Again, its ppl looking
>for " quick fixes" or "cheats" to advance faster than everyone else and
:shrug:
I protested UO greatly before the beta started, mouthing on about how
there would be little role-playing, how people would be annoying, how
some players would use characters from other worlds.
I see that has all come to pass now, with someone recently posting
that they saw a 2 "klingons" walking around UO.
UO may be a wonderful game - in about 2 years when it's matured and
the flood of newbie role-players has subsided.
Richard S Pastorius
NO its not.
" Not just a fantasy because its real"
"More than a game because it never ends"
ES IST EINFACH SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ES IST UO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Opium Dragon
Dave Mark wrote:
>
> That would be considered a Newsgroup PK!!
You say wham? I say SPLUT! ;?)
(no offense Dave, I just saw your subject line and i thought it would be
funny to SPLUT ya. No one's been splutted in acouple of days anyway)
--
***********************************************
*Opium Dragon -=UDIC=- opium...@hotmail.com*
* "I am Lord British..." *
* -That guy outside the castle in U6 *
***********************************************
Opium Dragon
khfkjagkhjafasdal;kfasjkfhsajcjkxckansdashdjsbcnaxbskbcdajabasbcjksbd
I am Hidalgo..... *flaps madly about the room*
Now that, my friend, was moronic :?)