Battle speed vs Weapon range
AHardPlace
I can't find it. Possibly it was at EpsilonPegasi? Anyway, I'm a new
player and would like comments for the various weapon ranges combined with
ship speed in battle.
For example, I have read a LOT about using Phaser Bazooka's on early ships,
but almost nothing Colloidal Phasers. Why is this? The weapons don't seem
to be that far apart on the tech tree.
What speeds should I be aiming for with range 1 weapons? Range 2? 3? Is
the Radiating ramscoop of any use on combat vessels? Is it of use at all,
and if so, for what?
I couldn't find anything on this at the StarsFaq. If there is an article
there that deals with this, please tell which one, so I can read it myself.
AHardPlace
aka newbie learning the ropes
James McGuigan
news:Xg3B7.315003$j65.83...@news4.rdc1.on.home.com...
There is not best combo, buts its mainly about killing what your enemy has
to offer. The reason you hear alot about phaser FFs is that R2 weapons are
usually about half the cost of R3 weapons. Also FFs are lighter weight than
most other warship designs, meaning they move last and decide the range, so
the shorter range doesn't matter.
You have to understand the way the battle engine works.
Here's a brief rundown:
Ships with will move either 0, 1, 2 or 3 squares in a turn. For fractional
speeds, like 2 1/4 the ship will move 3 squares in the first round, then 2
squares until the 5th round when it moves 3 squares again. For 1/2 it gains
an extra square every other round starting with the first, and for 3/4 you
gain a square for every round except the 3rd and the 7th and 11th.
The ships are deployed in their squares. All ships that can move 3 squares
move one square first, and have their movement counter reduced by one, the
order of movement is from heaviest ships first to lightest ships last (ships
within +-20% weight of each other have a weighted random roll to see who
moves first). Then the process is repeated for the second square of
movement, and then the first.
Being lighter and having at least 1 square of movement, means you get the
last move, which allows you to pick the range, either to try and use the
last square of movement to out range your enemy (if you have longer range
and he is shorter) or to move into range (preventing him from outraging
you). Doesn't make too much difference at which range you fight if both
sides have the same range in weapons.
Then comes shooting, which is done in order of init (hull + comps + weapon)
for each weapon. In the case of equal init, the shorter range weapon should
win (not 100% sure on this), otherwise its a random dice throw.
Each slot on the hull that shoots is calculated separately. The damage is
worked out by the damage of the weapon * number of weapons in the slot * the
number of ships in the stack. Each time a slot is fired damage is worked
out. For beams all damage is applied to the shields first and then to
armour. Missiles get only half the damage applied to shields and capital
missiles get double damage to unshielded armour. But all the damage to
armour in the slot salvo is summed up, if it is greater than the hull armour
for a single ship then you get whole ship kills according to the number of
whole ships that could be killed. The rest of the damage is divided equally
among all the survivors. This is why big slots are best, as it mean more
whole ship kills and less damage spread over many ships (remember 99%
damaged ships still fire back like undamaged ones).
This is one reason why FFs are good early fighters, they have a single 3x
slot compared to 3 1x slots on a DD, also they are alot cheaper than a DD
for the hull and can take 2 shield slots, and vs beams you have to take down
the whole shielding for the entire stack before getting to the armour - this
is quite effective when you have large stacks.
This cycle repeats until everyone is dead or doesn't hate those remaining on
the battlefield or the timer runs out (I forget how many rounds a battle is
limited to).
The main reason for having a high battlespeed is to close in on your enemy,
especially if you are a beamer and he is a missile ship. For every round you
are out of range he gets a free hit on you. The faster you are the less free
hits he gets on you. Also for Anti-chaff ships, you need to get into range
of the chaff in the first round which requires 2.25+ movement and R3 beams.
For missile ships, a speed of 2.5 can be used to retreat fire, as 2.5 allows
you to retreat on the third round of battle, which is faster than beamers
can close in on you (unless they are range 3 and 2.5 speed), it can be used
to wear down the enemy. This also applies to fast scouts that try to outrun
sweepers on the battlefield.
Well back to design. As R2 weapons are cheaper, than R3 weapons by half, if
you can make your ship 20% lighter and guarantee that you will move last and
thus decide the distance. You can get the same effective firepower and
better init (shorter ranged weapons tend get higher init as well), for a
lesser cost or more firepower for the same cost (especially in the early
game where weapons are the major cost of a warship).
As for battlespeed, its always best to try and have a speed of at least 1,
so you get at least 1 square of move each year. Other than that it all
depends on who you are fighting. If your enemy is going to be missile ships,
or fast scouts then you need to have higher battlespeed to catch up with
them. If on the other hand you will be fighting another stack at the same
range, then speed isn't that important, as you can just let them come to you
and not worry about the extra turn neither of you are fighting in.
Hope this helps explain it, if you want to test out new designs then you can
do a testbed, though if you can understand the full detail on the battle
engine its often possible to work it out in your head (or at least the
positions and firing orders), and do the maths on a spreadsheet if needbe.
--
Rules are written for those who lack the ability to truly reason,
But for those who can, rules become nothing more than guidelines,
And live their lives governed not by rules but by reason.
- James McGuigan
The Stars! FAQ (www.starsfaq.com)
Ulrich Schweitzer
>What speeds should I be aiming for with range 1 weapons? Range 2? 3? Is
>the Radiating ramscoop of any use on combat vessels? Is it of use at all,
>and if so, for what?
I think the most important rule about weapons range is:
If your ships have shorter range, they have to be lighter!
This is because the lightest ship moves last and if your ships have
less range and are heavier, your opponent will always move out of
range and you won't get off a single shot.
Of course you should also aim for high speed, 2 1/4 being more or less
standard for beam ships.
Ulrich
James McGuigan
news:9r3hjg$289t$1...@news.lf.net...
Though being lighter only gets you so many free shots, after a while you
will have to run up to the end of the board to keep your distance and then
you can't extend the range further. The faster the ships are the less time
until you get caught up against the wall.
This is the main reason why lighter weight mega-D nubs (R3) still get
slaughtered by AMP nubs (R2), with a battle speed of 2 on the ships, you
only get 2-3 free shots on the AMP nubs which is made up by the 3x firepower
from the AMPs.
Also for battlespeed, 2.25 is normal for beamer BBs (normally anti-chaff so
need 3 squares of movement first round), though for nubs, I don't usually
bother with jets and just keep to a speed of 2, the extra speed isn't worth
a slot.
Ulrich Schweitzer
>Though being lighter only gets you so many free shots, after a while you
>will have to run up to the end of the board to keep your distance and then
>you can't extend the range further. The faster the ships are the less time
>until you get caught up against the wall.
>
>This is the main reason why lighter weight mega-D nubs (R3) still get
>slaughtered by AMP nubs (R2), with a battle speed of 2 on the ships, you
>only get 2-3 free shots on the AMP nubs which is made up by the 3x firepower
>from the AMPs.
That's true but AHardPlace was asking about early ship design. In the
DD and CC era almost all battles are over after two or three shots.
Ulrich
Weirdo
"AHardPlace" <smc...@nospam.home.com> wrote in message
news:Xg3B7.315003$j65.83...@news4.rdc1.on.home.com...
ships,
> but almost nothing Colloidal Phasers. Why is this? The weapons don't
seem
> to be that far apart on the tech tree.
R3 beams cost more than R2 ones, but R3 beams do slightly more damage
compared to R2 (beams lose some damage over the distance- a Bazooka will do
23 damage at R2 but a Colloidal Phaser will do 24 damage at R2 since its
maximum range is 3; However, this 1dp of damage doesn't really matter in the
early game. You can build more bazooka beamers to outnumber R3 enemy ships.
For example, ships FF hull with two shields and three bazookas will work
well in the early game.
> What speeds should I be aiming for with range 1 weapons? Range 2? 3? Is
> the Radiating ramscoop of any use on combat vessels? Is it of use at all,
> and if so, for what?
RHRS only has a battle spped of 1, so it's a good idea to research on
Proplusion for better RamScoop engines. The stradegy guide says the battle
ship should always be 1.75 or greater..If you ever use Range 0 weapons (they
are better for killing starbases but less useful against movable ships), the
ship *requires* Speed 2.5 no matter what. In the early game, it's almost
impossible.
When you have Con 9 and can build cruisers, you should put MJ instead of
Caps in the Shield/Elect/Mech Slot since they improve beam damage and battle
speed at the same time. (Tested with the following design: CC + 2 TGFS + 2
Wolverine Shields + 6 Colloidals- The power rating is 212. If you add two
caps, it will be improved to 255 and the speed is 1.25. If you add two MJ's,
you get a battle speed of 1.75 and a power of 257.
Daniel Neely
> When you have Con 9 and can build cruisers, you should put MJ
instead of
> Caps in the Shield/Elect/Mech Slot since they improve beam damage
and battle
> speed at the same time. (Tested with the following design: CC + 2
TGFS + 2
> Wolverine Shields + 6 Colloidals- The power rating is 212. If you
add two
> caps, it will be improved to 255 and the speed is 1.25. If you add
two MJ's,
> you get a battle speed of 1.75 and a power of 257.
MJs don't improve damage done by beams. Ship ratings are not simply
the ammount of damage a ship can do in a single shot. for beam
weapons the rating is modfied by battle speed because faster ships are
more likely to shot before being killed. but a bazooka on a speed .5
ship does the exact same ammount of damage as one on a speed 2.5 ship
assuming both designs have an equal number of capacitors