The New Technology: Evilution (1995/10/27 Press Release)
da Muddy_One
Hi again.
I know many are waiting for TNT: Evilution to be released today.
The snafu that occured Monday was this:
We made TNT too cool, at the 11th hour, we were contacted about the
possibility of it being released commercially and asked to delay
release until Friday so they could determine if they wanted it.
They do.
Futher discussions are currently underway.
The upshot of this is that TNT will probably be released in stores
around the world in January.
I will post further information as soon as I can.
--H2HMud (TeamTNT PR coordinator)
P.S. no, sorry, I am not at liberty to provide any further information
at this time.
============================================================================
H2HMud NorthAmerican DeathMatch Tourney
PR coordinator for "The New Technology: Evilution"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
jel...@conline.com; WEB page ==> http://www.conline.com/~jelson/index.html
Tantor
writes:
>
>Hi again.
>
>I know many are waiting for TNT: Evilution to be released today.
>
>The snafu that occured Monday was this:
>
>We made TNT too cool, at the 11th hour, we were contacted about the
>possibility of it being released commercially and asked to delay
>release until Friday so they could determine if they wanted it.
>
>They do.
>
>Futher discussions are currently underway.
>
>The upshot of this is that TNT will probably be released in stores
>around the world in January.
>
>I will post further information as soon as I can.
>
>--H2HMud (TeamTNT PR coordinator)
>
>P.S. no, sorry, I am not at liberty to provide any further information
> at this time.
>
>======================================================================
=====
> PR coordinator for "The New Technology: Evilution"
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Jeff Dixon
poster mentioned "this reeks of a PR stunt." I personally am willing
to make the commitment that whatever company publishes this can count
my group out of its customer base -- for any product it releases.
Selling Wads is fine, but promoting and hyping it and then saying --
oh, it was just too cool -- is in rather poor taste. Not entirely
impossible to understand from the sellers point of view, but I'm
nevertheless annoyed enough to act.
Arthur Chang
Even if it's not, and I don't think it is, I am dissapointed with
their decision. When id started out, they intended for people to have FUN with
level editing, not to make a profit off their (id) work. Although I can
understand the desire to go commercial, this being such an organized project
of such scope, I am sure there are wad editors out there (like me) who, even
though they aren't as good, are learning and will one day be as good, who
would be willing to do such a project for free in the future. I'm expecting
heated debate over my comments, but please, no flames, ok? =)
-Arthur Chang
alc...@wam.umd.edu
da Muddy_One
>
>In <46rva6$b...@news.unicomp.net> jel...@conline.com (da Muddy_One)
>writes:
>>
>>
>>Hi again.
>>
>
>This reeks of a PR stunt.
Sorry to disappoint you, it's just the straight skinny. Ask anyone
who knows me, I'm telling it like it is.
-- H2HMud
============================================================================
H2HMud NorthAmerican DeathMatch Tourney
PR coordinator for "The New Technology: Evilution"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
da Muddy_One
A very understandable point-of-view.
However, I believe you will find that you are being a bit hasty with
your assumptions.
1). From it's inception 7 months ago, TeamTNT had planned to release
TNT:Evilution as freeware on the net.
2). All out promotion efforts have been guided by the fact that it was
only going to be available on the InterNet.
3). 12 hours before we were going to upload TNT:Evilution to ftp.cdrom.com
we were contacted by a company--no, it's not appropriate to say how at
this time--who wanted to release it commercially.
4). TeamTNT has not yet decided whether to accept this offer or go ahead
with the freeware release.
5). If we had not been promoting TNT on the Net in preparation for a
freeware release or if we have been contacted a month ago instead of
last Monday, no one would have been informed of its possible commercial
release. The fact is we were left with several options: (a) just lie
to everyone who was looking forward to checking out TNT:E by telling some
lame story about an indefinite delay (utterly unacceptable); (b) just
say nothing (rude and unacceptable); (c) come out and inform the public
of as much as we can at the time and take all the heat that might result
from it (the only honorable course of action).
--H2HMud
da Muddy_One
:In article <46s51k$7...@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,
:>This reeks of a PR stunt.
:
: Even if it's not, and I don't think it is, I am dissapointed with
:their decision.
Thank you Arthur, it's not.
BTW, let me note that TeamTNT has not yet made a decision about whether to
accept the offer and go ahead with a freeware release. I'm sure they will
be paying close attention to the ensuing discussion of the ethics of
commercial wads.
-- H2HMud
Ben Morris
: 5). If we had not been promoting TNT on the Net in preparation for a
: freeware release or if we have been contacted a month ago instead of
: last Monday, no one would have been informed of its possible commercial
: release. The fact is we were left with several options: (a) just lie
: to everyone who was looking forward to checking out TNT:E by telling some
: lame story about an indefinite delay (utterly unacceptable); (b) just
: say nothing (rude and unacceptable); (c) come out and inform the public
: of as much as we can at the time and take all the heat that might result
: from it (the only honorable course of action).
Hey guy - if any of you used DCK, I want a piece of the action. It's only
logical; If you hadn't used DCK, your release schedule might have been
before this date or after it, and the company who is now interested might
not have seen the right promo at the right time and would never have
contacted you.
Now, since I spent a heck of a long time on DCK - a freeware project
(until 3.0 - sorry guys :), I figure I deserve a slice of the pie if any
of the members involved were using my program. Can you dig it?
(sheesh: just release the thing already. you'll get the home market if
you go commercial, but everyone on the net will think you guys are
weiners.)
no damage yet, though .. <grin>!
-/-
Ben Morris: Irritant at large bmo...@islandnet.com
SavanTech/Zerius/C++/Rush/DCK http://www.islandnet.com/~voltaire
Watch for DCK and HexenCK 3.0 real soon now, eh! Real soon! Yeah!
Adam Williamson
bmo...@islandnet.com "Ben Morris" writes:
>
> -/-
> Ben Morris: Irritant at large bmo...@islandnet.com
> SavanTech/Zerius/C++/Rush/DCK http://www.islandnet.com/~voltaire
> Watch for DCK and HexenCK 3.0 real soon now, eh! Real soon! Yeah!
>
I don't think, technically, you can ask for money off this Ben. Think of all
the games that use 3D Studio gfx - the authors of that get nothing.
--
---
Adam Williamson, D1M - ad...@scss.demon.co.uk
Terminal Velocity and Wolfenstein 3D FAQ writer
for more details on either FAQ, e-mail me
"There's nothing left for you to say,
soon you'll be dead anyway" - Green Day
Scott Smith
>Actually, Jim was just saying why it hadn't been released! And Jim...don't
>be stupid and have people selling it. Ask yourself: Would YOU buy a .wad,
>when there's people like me, Briam Vannetta, Dweller and others turning
>out perfectly good wads for free, because we enjoy doing it? No you bleeding
>well wouldn't. If you want to make 50 dollars, sell it. If you want lots
>of praise, lots of users and a nice warm feeling inside, give it away. Get
>me? I will never BUY a PWAD.
I'm indifferent, because I think we'll be able to get it without
having to pay, regarless of whether it goes commercial, or not (unless
it's Id Soft that wants the thing).
As I understand it, one cannot legally "sell" a PWAD. The work around
that allows people to make money off of PWADs is that they say they
are charging for the distribution of the PWAD, and not for the PWAD
itself, which is public domain material. What's to stop the first
person that buys the commercial distribution of this public domain
PWAD from uploading the PWAD CDROM.COM for everyone to download? I see
nothing that could legally stop that from happening.
Scott A. Smith - sc...@gate.net
-=( Scott's DOOM Pages )=-
*-------------------------=*=----------------------------*
| Preview some of today's | http://www.webcom.com/~deth |
* HOTTEST DOOM2 DeathMatch *-----------------------------*
| Levels! | de...@webcom.com |
*-------------------------=*=----------------------------*
William J. Bessette
: >
: >This reeks of a PR stunt.
: Sorry to disappoint you, it's just the straight skinny. Ask anyone
: who knows me, I'm telling it like it is.
He's telling it like it is. When I was in on the project early
on, it was to be freeware.
dsquid
--
+====================+========================================+
| William Bessette |"The most merciful thing in the world, |
| Systems Analyst | I think, is the inability of the human |
| Medford, NJ | mind to correlate all its contents." |
+====================+========================================+
| dsq...@li.net | http://www.li.net/~dsquid |
+====================+========================================+
Ben Morris
: I don't think, technically, you can ask for money off this Ben. Think of all
: the games that use 3D Studio gfx - the authors of that get nothing.
I was just trying to prove a point - i'm not serious about the money at
all. I'm just of the opinion that it's a weinerheaded thing to do; no
amount of time could make even a 32-level PWAD worth spending money on,
when I've enjoyed a dozen times the entertainment it'd give me from other
wads that have all been free.
Anyway ..
John Duquette
: 1). From it's inception 7 months ago, TeamTNT had planned to release
: TNT:Evilution as freeware on the net.
This is fine. So what you shuld do is exactly that. Release it as freeware.
And instead of going for the dollars do the "right" thing. There are
thousands of PWADS available for free over the net and via bbs' and I also
agree that I can't see myself paying for one.
: 4). TeamTNT has not yet decided whether to accept this offer or go ahead
: with the freeware release.
I am glad to see that you havent made up you minds yet. There are alot of
people who would have just gone ahead and sold it.
: 5). If we had not been promoting TNT on the Net in preparation for a
: freeware release or if we have been contacted a month ago instead of
: last Monday, no one would have been informed of its possible commercial
: release. The fact is we were left with several options: (a) just lie
: to everyone who was looking forward to checking out TNT:E by telling some
: lame story about an indefinite delay (utterly unacceptable); (b) just
: say nothing (rude and unacceptable); (c) come out and inform the public
: of as much as we can at the time and take all the heat that might result
: from it (the only honorable course of action).
: --H2HMud
: ============================================================================
: H2HMud NorthAmerican DeathMatch Tourney
: PR coordinator for "The New Technology: Evilution"
: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
: jel...@conline.com; WEB page ==> http://www.conline.com/~jelson/index.html
Listen to your conscience.
--
John Duquette
duqu...@acs.bu.edu
TeacherMAO
(William J. Bessette) writes:
>: >This reeks of a PR stunt.
Even if it isn't ..... I do not like the idea either.
>: Sorry to disappoint you, it's just the straight skinny. Ask anyone
>: who knows me, I'm telling it like it is.
I do not doubt that you are. I suggest you go with your first instincts
and make it FREEWARE .... Public Domain.
>He's telling it like it is. When I was in on the project early
>on, it was to be freeware.
As it should be a freeware project! There are far to many good, nay I
say GREAT, wad authors making their wads freeware why would any one want
to pay for any!
I admire the work of the Windsor's, Stewart's and the many others to
numerous to mention. I'm thankful for their generosity and giftedness
with regards to their creations.
I sincerly hope to place you and your associates up there with them and
not in another category, that I refuse to extrapolate on.
Jim Wraith
)Adam Williamson (Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk) wrote:
): I don't think, technically, you can ask for money off this Ben. Think of all
): the games that use 3D Studio gfx - the authors of that get nothing.
)I was just trying to prove a point - i'm not serious about the money at
)all. I'm just of the opinion that it's a weinerheaded thing to do; no
)amount of time could make even a 32-level PWAD worth spending money on,
)when I've enjoyed a dozen times the entertainment it'd give me from other
)wads that have all been free.
Actually, from all the legal hoo-haa I can understand, you *can* make
money from utilities you've written, but not levels/gfx etc.. Seeing
as you've done all the coding.. Ben, I don't have any dollars, but
don't be surprised if you get a couple of quid in the post ;)
)Anyway ..
–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-–-
Jim Wraith –-– j...@kildare.demon.co.uk
–-–Boing!-–-–-–-Boing!–-–-–-–Boing!–-–
-–-–-–-–-Boing!–-–-–-–-Boing!-–-–-–-–-
Brian Kidby
[lotsa stuff about TeamTNT]
As I said befiore, you really should check out TeamTNT's home-page
before condemning TeamTNT (http://www.neosoft.com/~teamtnt). What
you find there just might make you rethink your position.
Cheers,
Brian K.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Kid My thoughts and actions are strictly my own.
the...@ornews.intel.com Do not hold my employers responsible.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Kidby
I really think you ought to take a look at TeamTNT's web-page before you
condemn them. What you find there might just make you rethink your
position. The URL is http://www.neosoft.com/~teamtnt
Enjoy (I know I did!),
Simon H. Garlick
Did you pay for your level editors? For the tips and skills you picked up
in this forum? For the advice you received from other players? When other
players have made suggestions or criticism, have you paid them consultancy
fees?
Did the authors of great pwads such as Aliens-TC!, trinity.wad,
uac_dead.wad, raven.wad, asd2.wad, 2diehell.wad, boothill.wad,
return01.wad, etc. ask anyone to pay them for it?
You may get a _few_ dollars - although Doom will never die, Quake is just
around the corner - but is it worth the contempt and disgust of the entire
Doom community?
--
______________________________________
s...@waikato.ac.nz - Simon H. Garlick
LIFE IS SHORT - FRAG HARD
______________________________________
Neil R. Bonner
[snip]
> You won't buy Quake then? Yes, its id that's buying TNT. Open mouth,
>insert foot.. just like the whole of doom-editing did.
Not me. I suggested that they go for it.
Neil
--
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| Neil R. Bonner | "Imagination is More Important |
| nrbo...@ffx.mobil.com | Than Knowledge." -Einstein |
| CIS: 72254,511 | |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
CHRIS SHULLENBARGER
-> >poster mentioned "this reeks of a PR stunt." I personally am
-> willing >to make the commitment that whatever company publishes this
-> can count >my group out of its customer base -- for any product it
-> releases. >Selling Wads is fine, but promoting and hyping it and then
-> saying -- >oh, it was just too cool -- is in rather poor taste. Not
-> entirely >impossible to understand from the sellers point of view,
-> but I'm >nevertheless annoyed enough to act.
You can count me out too. I'm not going to BUY someone else's TC when I
can get other great works from other people for free. What does it
offer that will make paying for it worth my while? How do I know
TeamTNT isn't bull-shitting us? And wouldn't id get angry over the
sale of something that involves their product? I'm out. You're not
worthy enough to sell it. No one else has sold theirs.
Avery Andrews
such as Olivier Montanuy who wrote free or nearly free utilities on
the basis that they would get to enjoy the wads thereby created
(nearly free would include shareware under $15 or maybe even $20
all-versions rego). Such people ought to get a free copy (also
the archive maintainers, specification compilers, etc.), and
maybe some of them would even be satisfied by this. After all,
when the authors' cut is split 22 ways, how much would the individual
authors be getting?
The Bishop of Battle
Hey, wait just a darn minute here! The TNT team isn't the only people
out there who can design/build/assemble a 32 level PWAD collection. Sure,
we all wanted to play TNT and I was really looking foreward to killing time
with it till Quake came out but, now that's not gonna happen.
I have a suggestion: Let's build our own 32 level PWAD and release it for
free BEFORE the January release of TNT.
All we gotta do is come up with a name, build a WWW page, and throw together
32 kick ass single player Doom 2 levels. I'll bet we can even have some new
graphics and sounds.
Anyone who is interested in having their un-released PWAD added to the 32
"Un-Named 32 Level PWAD" please E-Mail me right away.
Include a uucoded copy of your PWAD even if it is not finished, that way I
can start getting an idea of the difficulty of your .WAD and the order I want
to put it in.
I already have my own WWW page, I can whip together a WWW page as good as
TNT: Evilution in a couple of days.
We could have the whole thing thrown together by the end of November!
E-Mail me with comments/suggestions/levels!
The Bishop of Battle
bis...@primenet.com
---
http://www.primenet.com/~bishop/
---
Ron W. Auld
>
---SNIP---
>All we gotta do is come up with a name, build a WWW page, and throw together
>32 kick ass single player Doom 2 levels. I'll bet we can even have some new
>graphics and sounds.
Only single player? TNT:E has single, coop, _and_ deathmatch modes, all
extensively playtested and very refined. All this and unified themes, too.
---SNIP---
>We could have the whole thing thrown together by the end of November!
>
Keyword: thrown
>E-Mail me with comments/suggestions/levels!
>
>
>The Bishop of Battle
>bis...@primenet.com
>
>
>---
>http://www.primenet.com/~bishop/
>---
+-----------------------+---------------------+-----------------------+
| Ron W. Auld | ra...@microdes.com | "Happiness is a |
| Sr. Software Engineer | (407) 677-8333 x135 | belt-fed weapon!" |
| Micro Design Int. | (407) 677-0221 FAX | |
+-----------------------+---------------------+-----------------------+
Gregg J. Anderson
>
> I have a suggestion: Let's build our own 32 level PWAD and release it for
> free BEFORE the January release of TNT.
>
And what would *you* do if id said they wanted to buy it 4 hours before
you upload it? -C'mon, be honest... :-)
> All we gotta do is come up with a name, build a WWW page, and throw together
> 32 kick ass single player Doom 2 levels. I'll bet we can even have some new
> graphics and sounds.
[...]
>
> We could have the whole thing thrown together by the end of November!
>
Ahhh... It sounds that easy, but TNT took 7 months to do that same thing.
heck, just playtesting and tweaking TNT took months!
I wish you all the luck in the world, however... :-)
Happy hacking,
=Gregg=
_____________________________________________________________________________
Gregg J. Anderson =o= gan...@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
Mankato State University =o= gan...@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Mankato, MN USA =o= Flames: Bar...@purple.dino.CIA.gov
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
GCS/MU/O d? H S g=(?) p? au-->+ a- wH V- C++>++++ UU>Lu(u-) P+ L 3 E N++
K++ W--- M-- V-@ -po+ Y+ ++@ !5 jx R G? tv- b+(b) D++>+++ B++ e+>e- u++(u)
h+@ F? r* n-- y+>++ Doom2 -TNT: Evilution http://www.neosoft.com/~teamtnt
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Adam Williamson
> Adam Williamson (Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> : Uhhh...Mack, who told you that?
>
> It's on the TeamTNT Web page. There's a big centered header that says
> "That company is id software!" It's still pretty lame, though,
> considering id didn't actually have to do anything but shell out cash.
>
> Aaron
>
Ahh, so the rest of you finally found out then :)
Bill McClendon
"Gregg J. Anderson" <gan...@krypton.mankato.msus.edu> writes:
>And what would *you* do if id said they wanted to buy it 4 hours
>before you upload it? -C'mon, be honest... :-)
It's an easy question to answer if you have a little-known
(and seemingly little-used) quality known as "integrity".
When I say I'm gonna do something, Gregg, I fucking well
DO it -- WHEN I said I was going to do it, and the WAY I
said I was going to do it.
"Whoa, it was too COOL for you leeches, so we decided to
sell out and make a fast buck. Thanks for all your support
and encouragement, but tough shit, fellas."
Hope the 40-way profit split was worth THIS. Then again,
I'd be lying if I said that and meant it.
--
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GED/H/L d-@ s:+ a>-- C++(++++) U P L E? W+(++) N+ o@ K-?
w--(---) O>++ M-- PS(+) PE(+) Y+ PGP+@ t++(*)@>$ !5-- x(+)
R@ b++++>$ tv-- DI++ D+++>$ G>++ e+>++$ h--- r+++ x+++*
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Avery Andrews
>...
>me? I will never BUY a PWAD.
>...
>
I wouldn't buy it either, if they just stuffed the wads in a box and stuck
them in the stores. But does this sound like Idsoftware in action? I'd
expect to see significant enhancements to the exe, such as maybe looking
up and down, Heretic-style carryable items, or Jetpacks.
That would be quite a different story, and I think it would justify some
price, tho not as much as for a genuinely new game. And I'd still
maintain that free/cheap utility authors, archive & faq maintainers,
etc. should get it free.
Simon H. Garlick
I'm not going to get over-critical here, but consider a paraphrasal of the TNT
storyline:
"The UAC is conducting matter teleportation experiments at a base in the Solar
System. Something takes control of the teleporter gates from the other side, and
before the UAC can shut the gates it forces its way through. All communication
from the base has ceased. Someone has got to go in..."
Does that sound like a "NEW STORYLINE" to anyone?
______________________________________
Simon H. Garlick - s...@waikato.ac.nz
FRAGGO ERGO SUM
______________________________________
Robt_Martin
they haven't done yet would consider the main good reason for id to
distribute the best wads by others: to prevent the blatant rip-off of wad
creators by folks putting out freeware/shareware DOOM add-on cds and disks.
I mean, what about that open invitation by one outfit for wad creators to
enter their contest for a $1000 prize? The only trouble with that was you
had to sign away all rights to your wad in order to enter their contest.
Meanwhile, ONE good wad represents more than a grand worth of work.
If id can make it possible for wad authors to make a few dollars for
their sweat, WHAT is the great crime? Free wads will still be made,
and if they are not up to the quality of those that id *may* choose to
distribute, anyone who wants a totally free, high-quality wad is
welcome to download an editor and build one!
Nobody *owes* anyone a free ride; if you think you're owed, then that
just shows the level of your own ingratitude for what's already been
given to you. The fact that id made their offerings editable, and have
encouraged creativity on the part of the players, is already more than
you deserve!
Bill McClendon
writes:
>If id can make it possible for wad authors to make a few dollars for
>their sweat, WHAT is the great crime? Free wads will still be made,
None. But that isn't the point.
>and if they are not up to the quality of those that id *may* choose to
>distribute, anyone who wants a totally free, high-quality wad is
>welcome to download an editor and build one!
I have and still do, thank you very much.
>Nobody *owes* anyone a free ride; if you think you're owed, then that
>just shows the level of your own ingratitude for what's already been
Why, thank you, Mr. Limbaugh.
>given to you. The fact that id made their offerings editable, and have
>encouraged creativity on the part of the players, is already more than
>you deserve!
Hello? Have you been paying attention? The issue here is
not the fact that they're selling this thing; hell, more
power to them if they can.
The POINT is simply: they've hyped this thing in the newsgroups
and on the Web for SEVEN MONTHS, saying it'll be available on
cdrom.com on Oct 24th. This indicates that the level is freeware.
I think it's safe to say this PWAD spectacular was somewhat
looked-forward-to by most of the people around here, including
myself, due to the time and effort that must have been put into
it.
THEN, 4 hours before upload, they (no prettier way to say it)
SOLD OUT. THAT's what's pissing people off.
-- Bill
SDAPOI
Stephen Speck
: In <Pine.ULT.3.91.951102...@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
: "Gregg J. Anderson" <gan...@krypton.mankato.msus.edu> writes:
: >And what would *you* do if id said they wanted to buy it 4 hours
: >before you upload it? -C'mon, be honest... :-)
: It's an easy question to answer if you have a little-known
: (and seemingly little-used) quality known as "integrity".
: When I say I'm gonna do something, Gregg, I fucking well
: DO it -- WHEN I said I was going to do it, and the WAY I
: said I was going to do it.
Excuse me, sir, but the problem is that they had enough integrity to tell us
that id gave them the call and was interesting in selling the PWAD. Would you
want to throw away an opportunity to make money AND add something cool you've
done to you resume? I don't think so! One of the guys at id was HIRED because
of a PWAD he did. So stick a sock in it! Have a nice day :)
Aaron S. Veenstra
: that id gave them the call and was interesting in selling the PWAD. Would you
: want to throw away an opportunity to make money AND add something cool you've
: done to you resume? I don't think so! One of the guys at id was HIRED because
: of a PWAD he did. So stick a sock in it! Have a nice day :)
No, they had enough integrity to tell us for months how cool this new
FREELY AVAILABLE pwad was, and then, four hours before upload, say "a
company" has approached us. They didn't reveal that it was id until a
lot of speculation had come up. That's not much integrity.
Aaron
--
''~``
( o o )
/****.oooO**(_)**Oooo.*************************************************\
* _____ _ _ | Eleck Comics, on rec.arts.comics.creative *
* | ____| | ___ ___| | __ | http://www.hu.mtu.edu/~asveenst/eleck/ *
* | _| | |/ _ \/ __| |/ / | asve...@mtu.edu for more info *
* | |___| | __/ (__| < | *
* |_____|_|\___|\___|_|\_\ | Aaron Veenstra, Founder and Editor *
\**********************************************************************/
Bill McClendon
mono...@conline.com
>Sure. What we're bitching about is the timing. Crash (sorry, that's from
>the e-mail address) summed it up greatly earlier on - TNT dudes are basically
>taking this attitude:
>"Heh, it's too good for you, thanx for the support and encouragement, but
>we're gonna sell it off for a fast buck, even tho we told you it was gonna
>be free. I'm off to sign my pact with the devil now, BYE!"
Do I sense good old-fashioned jelousy there Adam?
mis...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
> just shows the level of your own ingratitude for what's already been
> encouraged creativity on the part of the players, is already more than
> you deserve!
While not one of these people, if someone who has put hundreds of hours into a
freeware doom editor in order for people to make wads, in order for people to
enjoying playing those wads, in order for 10,000 people to decide to buy doom
instead of dark forces because doom has all these wonderful wads, in order to
financially repay id for allowing their game to be editable, then I,
personally, would not dare to tell them they were owed nothing.
_That_ would be ingratitude.
Would I be wrong to assume you are not talking about these people? :)
Seeya
(Gosh, arn't ethics fun. Lets all be Ethical Egoists <sp?> and really watch the
fit hit the shan :)
Bill McClendon
<Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>Sure. What we're bitching about is the timing. Crash (sorry,
>that's from the e-mail address)
I prefer it, actually. ;)
>summed it up greatly earlier on - TNT dudes are basically
>taking this attitude:
>
>"Heh, it's too good for you, thanx for the support and encouragement,
>but we're gonna sell it off for a fast buck, even tho we told you it
>was gonna be free. I'm off to sign my pact with the devil now, BYE!"
Kinda scary having you agree with me, Adam. :) You still
using Edmap? And I really just wonder how "expensive" it's
gonna be after the first copy is bought and uploaded every-
where... Not that _I'M_ going to buy it, mind you; there're
4-4meg simms going on sale that have my name on 'em...
Adam Williamson
> Do I sense good old-fashioned jelousy there Adam?
>
No. No. No. <Adam's fist scrunch up into little balls.> NO! WHO ARE YOU CALLING
JEALOUS!?!?!?!?!?! :)
--
Adam Williamson
Deaser
->Excuse me, sir, but the problem is that they had enough integrity to
tell us
->that id gave them the call and was interesting in selling the PWAD.
Would you
->want to throw away an opportunity to make money AND add something
cool you've
->done to you resume?
Huh? Someone is gonna hire you because you designed a Doom level? Come
on, you said ONE guy got hired at id. Didn't it take about 40 folks to
make TNT? What about the other 39.
I don't know of ANY company that would be too impressed with the fact
that you designed a level for a game, that's just plain stupid.
Tom Wheeley
>
> I don't know of ANY company that would be too impressed with the fact
> that you designed a level for a game, that's just plain stupid.
>
Sort your address out.
Lucas Arts recently advertised for level designers which sepecified DOOM level
editing as a possible qualification (that or 4 years Architect training!)
--
Tom Wheeley, <holyhorns>
* TQ 1.0 * The 'Just So Quotes'.
Drawing on my fine command of language, I said nothing.
-- Mark Twain
David A. Goldsmith
Deaser
->>
->> I don't know of ANY company that would be too impressed with the
fact
->> that you designed a level for a game, that's just plain stupid.
->>
->Sort your address out.
->Lucas Arts recently advertised for level designers which sepecified
DOOM level
->editing as a possible qualification (that or 4 years Architect
training!)
->--
Yeah, and I'm sure they pay Sooooooo much for level designers. Come
on...
BTW, my address is to prevent flames. I'll tell you the story sometime
if you're interested.
Tom Wheeley
>
> ->>
> ->> I don't know of ANY company that would be too impressed with the
> fact
> ->> that you designed a level for a game, that's just plain stupid.
> ->>
>
> ->Sort your address out.
>
> ->Lucas Arts recently advertised for level designers which sepecified
> DOOM level
> ->editing as a possible qualification (that or 4 years Architect
> training!)
> ->--
>
> Yeah, and I'm sure they pay Sooooooo much for level designers. Come
> on...
More than a kick in the teeth. plus, work you enjoy!
> BTW, my address is to prevent flames. I'll tell you the story sometime
> if you're interested.
go on then, we know your domain already.
--
Tom Wheeley, <holyhorns>, MAMSWWBUW
* TQ 1.0 * From the rec.humor.funny one-liner file.
Those who claim that seeing things in movies does not affect what people
do in real life may have to reconsider their position: look at what
Lorena Bobbitt did after seeing "Free Willy"...
Adam Windsor
>
> Bill McClendon (cra...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> : In <Pine.ULT.3.91.951102...@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
> : "Gregg J. Anderson" <gan...@krypton.mankato.msus.edu> writes:
>
> : >And what would *you* do if id said they wanted to buy it 4 hours
> : >before you upload it? -C'mon, be honest... :-)
>
> : It's an easy question to answer if you have a little-known
> : (and seemingly little-used) quality known as "integrity".
>
> : When I say I'm gonna do something, Gregg, I fucking well
> : DO it -- WHEN I said I was going to do it, and the WAY I
> : said I was going to do it.
>
> of a PWAD he did. So stick a sock in it! Have a nice day :)
Let's see ...
I've spent 7 months promoting a WAD that I have _repeatedly_ announced
will be released free of charge.
At the last moment, iD offer me money for it.
The WAD gets released as planned. Period.
It may not be "smart". But it is RIGHT.
THAT is Bill's point here. As I'm sure he's going to tell you.
If iD liked my stuff enough to buy, they'll be willing to take a look
at the next thing I do, which _won't_ have been announced as a free
WAD.
I'd do this, Bill McClendon would do this, Adam Williamson would do
this (in fact, I don't know he'd agree to sell ANY PWAD).
The WAD designer would lose nothing -- his next project will be an iD
release in either case -- and he'd hold onto something the TNT guys
have lost: Integrity.
And if iD said "if you don't sell this, we'll never buy anything you
do" I'd still stick to a free release. I've been doing it so far,
why stop now?
Adam Windsor
wind...@pigeon.qut.edu.au
Author of DFEAR*.WAD
Doug Bora
: at the next thing I do, which _won't_ have been announced as a free
: WAD.
Not to mention that this would be a great marketing decision. You
release the first "free" release, and wet people's appetites with how
good it is, then release a new full-blown conversion commercially. It
worked for Doom itself, why not a full conversion wad?
--
Doug Bora
stig...@interaccess.com
Adam Williamson
wind...@pigeon.qut.edu.au "Adam Windsor" writes:
> I'd do this, Bill McClendon would do this, Adam Williamson would do
> this (in fact, I don't know he'd agree to sell ANY PWAD).
>
Damright. It just, somehow, doesn't seem...right to me. Any extra levels I
do for any game will always be free. That includes Quake (back on my "to-buy"
list now because Hexen was so fuckin' cool).
--
Adam Williamson
John Duquette
: ->>
: ->> I don't know of ANY company that would be too impressed with the
: fact
: ->> that you designed a level for a game, that's just plain stupid.
: ->>
: ->Sort your address out.
: ->Lucas Arts recently advertised for level designers which sepecified
: DOOM level
: ->editing as a possible qualification (that or 4 years Architect
: training!)
: ->--
: Yeah, and I'm sure they pay Sooooooo much for level designers. Come
: on...
Hmm.... Lets think about this one. You are really good at designing levels
for computer software, you are given the opportunity to go and work *doing
something you really enjoy*, what are you going to do?
Look at all the people who do it for free. Hey if id or someone offered me a
*job* I wouldnt have to think twice about it.
--
John Duquette
duqu...@acs.bu.edu
D. Barr
>Let's see ...
>I've spent 7 months promoting a WAD that I have _repeatedly_ announced
>will be released free of charge.
>At the last moment, iD offer me money for it.
>The WAD gets released as planned. Period.
>It may not be "smart". But it is RIGHT.
>THAT is Bill's point here. As I'm sure he's going to tell you.
>If iD liked my stuff enough to buy, they'll be willing to take a look
>at the next thing I do, which _won't_ have been announced as a free
>WAD.
>I'd do this, Bill McClendon would do this, Adam Williamson would do
>this (in fact, I don't know he'd agree to sell ANY PWAD).
>The WAD designer would lose nothing -- his next project will be an iD
>release in either case -- and he'd hold onto something the TNT guys
>have lost: Integrity.
>And if iD said "if you don't sell this, we'll never buy anything you
>do" I'd still stick to a free release. I've been doing it so far,
>why stop now?
Well put. How much success might Team TNT have in putting together
another collection (hypothetical) with the intent on selling it?
Integrity counts for a lot to a major portion of the population. And I
can't see how it could be any more clear that Team TNT has NONE. The
prospect of making money when it appears as though there is none to be
made would be inviting I'm sure. But money can't buy integrity. Lack
of integrity on the other hand, can sure put a dent in making money.
Had the Team never publicly stated their intent of a free release,
there would be nothing to criticise them for. I don't blame anyone for
wanting to make a buck, but it can be, and should be, done WITH
integrity.
JOHNNIE GJEDVED
GA> > I have a suggestion: Let's build our own 32 level PWAD and
GA> release it for > free BEFORE the January release of TNT.
GA> And what would *you* do if id said they wanted to buy it 4 hours
GA> before you upload it? -C'mon, be honest... :-)
I don't get it, you said that iD bought TNT for QUAKE ?? But there is
a BIG difference between DOOM and Quake. It would take a lot of work to
convert the levels. Did you send the levels to iD ?? They must have
seen them somehow.
Regards,
Johnnie Gjedved
The Computer Is A Tool. Like A Knife, It Can Be Useful For Many Things,
But Used The Wrong Way It Can Be Very Dangerous. - johnnie...@dkb.dk
---
ţ RM 1.3 02633 ţ "Data, I thought you were dead!" "No captain, I just reboot
Marc Bublitz
deliberately or accidentally, managed to write:
> Q: What is the best editor out there?
> A: DCK 2.2!!!!!
>(This usually starts quit a heated debate, let's see if it still works :) )
> -Arthur Chang
> alc...@wam.umd.edu
No, if you want to get a really big heated debate just say something
false about Deep. ;)
-Marc
--
You know, I'm the last person to judge someone by the content
of their .sig file. Or at least if not absolutely the last
person, I did do it as recently as yesterday.