Let's not Call the Hanken Story "Support George John
cavema...@127.0.0.1
Many people have posted on this with no background available. Irrespective
of the story or the people involved, it is always a tragedy when life is
lost.
Here is a press report:
Pedestrian Dies After Being Hit in Crosswalk; Driver Arrested
08/28/2000
Los Angeles Times
Valley Edition
Page B-5
Copyright 2000 / The Times Mirror Company
GLENDALE -- A 41-year-old pedestrian in a marked crosswalk was struck and
killed Saturday evening by a motorist later arrested on suspicion of drunk
driving, according to police.
The unidentified victim was crossing Colorado Boulevard at Langley Street
with his wife and 10-year-old son when they were hit about 8:15 p.m., said
Sgt. Jim Woody of the Glendale Police Department.
"The 10-year-old was riding his Razor scooter, while his parents were walking
behind him," Woody said.
They were in the crosswalk when struck by a car westbound on Langley, Woody
said. The father suffered severe head injuries. All three were taken to Huntington
Memorial Hospital in Pasadena, where the man died later that night. The mother
and son were treated for minor injuries.
The driver, Jerome Hanken , 66, of Los Angeles was arrested on suspicion
of felony drunk driving, Woody said.
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Tom Klem
My search engine sucks. I tried to find this last year when I first heard of
it.
--
Tom Klem
"Time goes by so fast, people go in and out of your life. You must never
miss the opportunity to tell these people how much they mean to you."
-"Cheers"
<cavema...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:3aa57fc3$1...@news.newsfeeds.com...
Bill Smythe
> .... Irrespective
>of the story or the people involved, it is always a tragedy when life is
>lost.
_______________
Thank you for some much-needed facts. The tragedy is made even worse when
hacks of all persuasions, like Sam Sloan and Tom Dorsch, try to make
political hay out of it.
Bill Smythe
Bruce Draney
At least based on this report, it appears that Mr. Dorsch did correctly
refer to it as a felony. While I don't particularly like dragging
people's misfortunes or calamities onto RGCP just for embarrassment's
sake, Mr. Shearer and Sam were apparently incorrect in claiming Dorsch
had misreported or lied about it being a felony.
While motor vehicle homicide or involuntary manslaughter often carries
a reduced sentence it is usually a felony. When a person pleads no
contest, they are not contesting their guilt and are convicted and
sentenced/punished for the crime. Not all felonies carry a jail
sentence so even if Mr. Hanken was given a fine and 200 hours of
community service it does not mean it was a misdemeanor.
If it was in fact a felony conviction then Mr. Dorsch's description was
completely accurate, although one could debate whether exposing the
misfortune of Mr. Hanken on this newsgroup is necessary or desirable.
My sympathy and condolences go to the man who was killed and his
family. Certainly this incident has been hard on them. I'm sure that
Mr. Shearer will fade into the darkness and make no apology for his
criticism of Dorsch's accuracy. To the best of my recollection Mr.
Shearer has never been mistaken or if he has he has never acknowledged
it. Perhaps he'll shock us, but I won't hold my breath.
Best Regards,
Bruce
TOMDORSCH
>hacks of all persuasions, like Sam Sloan and Tom Dorsch, try to make
>political hay out of it.
>
>Bill Smythe
Oh, it's OK for hacks like Bill Smythe to make
political hay out of it?
What a hypocrite you are! No wonder you and
Johnsonpride are strange bedfellows. Hanken
is Goichberg's best friend in chess, and it
stands to reason that you would find ample
justification for anything he does, even a homicide.
Are there no depths to which you will not sink, Smythe?
Regards,
Tom Dorsch
Bill Smythe
> .... it
>stands to reason that you would find ample
>justification for anything he does, even a homicide.
____________
Oh, my God.
Bill Smythe
Tom Klem
Note: Homicide is of three kinds: justifiable, as when the killing is performed in the exercise of a right or performance of a duty; excusable, as when done, although not as duty or right, yet without culpable or criminal intent; and felonious, or involving what the law terms malice; the latter may be either manslaughter or murder. --Bouvier.
2. One who kills another; a manslayer. --Chaucer. Shak.
--
Tom Klem
La Caissa Nostra, that disgusting old gang of bigots and hate mongers. Goichberg, Caballo, ChessKlink (Donnie the Weasel), Spam Sloan, Eric the maggot, Hanken, Ferguson, Jarecki, Magruder, Conver, bozo, et al. Nevada will never be the same. And I'm betting our state is not the only one.
Bill Smythe
Tom Dorsch's incredible assertion that I would find justification for a
homicide. Nothing I have said, in any post, even comes close to this.
My point, all along, is that it is unfortunate that an incident of this sort
is being splashed all over this newsgroup, sometimes based on incomplete
knowledge of the details, for political gain.
Bill Smythe
Tom Klem
Well, Bill, with all due respect (cause I do think you have done great
things in Chi-town, that I have seen with my own eyes), that is what these
newsgroups are about.
The politics of the USCF, primarily (since Larry Parr has departed these
environs), and Chess politik in general. With that in mind:
Jerry Hanken, in my opinion, has serious mental problems. At a tournament in
So Cal a couple of years ago, he picked a fight with me that almost resulted
in fisticuffs. Luckily for the both of us, his daughter intervened and
hauled him off. The man needs anger management classes to be sure, and needs
to get a grip certainly.
Many of my friends here in Nevada, have been the victim of his pogroms and
calumnies. As you probably know, he was behind sending anti semitic
literature around a few years ago, attributing it falsely to one of our top
organizers. The man, whose first wife was Jewish, never acted like, smelled
like, or promoted like such a person. A perfect, though quirky, gentleman.
As far as Tom D using the 'H' word here, what would you call it, if not
that? An accident? To me, an accident is something unforeseen which befalls
a person. Getting behind the wheel of a vehicle in an inebriated or
distracted state, doesn't qualfiy in my view. Hurling, willy nilly, down the
gentle streets in a four thousand pound vehicle at speeds approaching sixty
or seventy miles an hour sounds very much to me like twice the fire power of
the average world war ii battleship, dropping out of the sky on your
position. Homicide it is.
Wickdeer3
Tom:
Can you please quote where Smythe "justified" Hanken's acts? It sure wasn't in
the post you responded to.
Wick Deer
TOMDORSCH
Sloan made a post where he suggested that the
pedestrian who was killed was at fault, and that
the driver who plead "no contest" was in fact
without blame. Johnson and Smythe chimed
in with comments that attacked me (even though,
despite their frequent claims, they have not shown
that any facts related by me were wrong) and at
the same time indirectly supported the falacious
tripe presented by Sloan.
Eric Johnson, obviously a disciple of the Boy George
School of Logic ("I know how to work a contradiction"),
first claimed that I was a scoundrel for presenting the
fact of Hanken's homicide conviction in an aside about
how the larger political landscape is changing in ways
that are unfavorable for the Goichberg Machine.
Then he later criticized me for emphasizing the facts
of Hanken's travails, when in fact it was he who jumped
on the bandwagon and made a big deal of Hanken's
criminal conviction. My further elucidation of the facts
was only in response to Mr. All-Outrage-All-The-Time
(this has been common knowledge in the chess
community for over six months, discussed widely
and understood by everyone who is knowledgeable
about USCF gossip).
Regards,
Tom Dorsch
Wickdeer3
I think it's clear that Bill accused you of using the Hanken story in an
inappropriate manner. After reviewing the posts, I can't see anything Bill
said that can be construed as justifying Hanken's behavior. Perhaps you had
him confused with another poster.
Wick Deer
TOMDORSCH
>inappropriate manner. After reviewing the posts, I can't see anything Bill
>said that can be construed as justifying Hanken's behavior. Perhaps you
>had
>him confused with another poster.
>
>Wick Deer
Perhaps I was guilty of associating him with the
views of his colleagues in the Goichberg Employees'
Union. I'm vulnerable to jumping to the conclusion
that they are all "birds of a feather," because that is
almost always the case.
It's wrong to attribute to each member of a group
the attributes of every member of the group. But
it is sometimes difficult to distinguish fine gradations
of impropriety in someone who so glibly announces
daily discoveries of "lies," but who is never capable
of showing us one. After a certain amount of this
disingenuousness, it is almost irresistible to consign
him to the "damned and lost forever" category along
with his confreres Johnsonpride and Scam.
I apologize to Smythe if I wronged him in this instance.
I continue to maintain that the man is basically
dishonest, as demonstrated by his outrageous
remarks on this forum, and by the pack of lies he
signed his name to in the last election.
Regards,
Tom Dorsch
Phil Innes
tomd...@aol.com (TOMDORSCH) wrote:
>>Thank you for some much-needed facts. The tragedy is made even worse when
>>hacks of all persuasions, like Sam Sloan and Tom Dorsch, try to make
>>political hay out of it.
>>
>>Bill Smythe
>
> Oh, it's OK for hacks like Bill Smythe to make
> political hay out of it?
right! - lets all pack it in - end of thread!
phil innes
j...@watson.ibm.com
on 6 Mar 2001 23:00:04 -0600,
Bruce Draney <bdr...@novia.net> writes:
>cavema...@127.0.0.1 wrote:
>>
>> Many people have posted on this with no background available. Irrespective
>> of the story or the people involved, it is always a tragedy when life is
>> lost.
>>
>> Here is a press report:
>>
>> Pedestrian Dies After Being Hit in Crosswalk; Driver Arrested
>>
>> 08/28/2000
<copyrighted press report deleted>
> At least based on this report, it appears that Mr. Dorsch did correctly
>refer to it as a felony. While I don't particularly like dragging
>people's misfortunes or calamities onto RGCP just for embarrassment's
>sake, Mr. Shearer and Sam were apparently incorrect in claiming Dorsch
>had misreported or lied about it being a felony.
Dorsch claimed Hanken had been convicted of a felony. The
press report indicates he was accused of a felony. I would hope you
realize there is a big difference.
In any case what I suggested was that Dorsch had posted
without being sure of his facts. Since he retreated when challenged
by Sloan this appears evident.
> While motor vehicle homicide or involuntary manslaughter often carries
>a reduced sentence it is usually a felony. When a person pleads no
>contest, they are not contesting their guilt and are convicted and
>sentenced/punished for the crime. Not all felonies carry a jail
>sentence so even if Mr. Hanken was given a fine and 200 hours of
>community service it does not mean it was a misdemeanor.
It doesn't mean it wasn't either.
> If it was in fact a felony conviction then Mr. Dorsch's description was
>completely accurate, although one could debate whether exposing the
>misfortune of Mr. Hanken on this newsgroup is necessary or desirable.
>
> My sympathy and condolences go to the man who was killed and his
>family. Certainly this incident has been hard on them. I'm sure that
>Mr. Shearer will fade into the darkness and make no apology for his
>criticism of Dorsch's accuracy. To the best of my recollection Mr.
>Shearer has never been mistaken or if he has he has never acknowledged
>it. Perhaps he'll shock us, but I won't hold my breath.
I have enough trouble apologizing when I am in the wrong so
it is indeed a safe bet that I won't apologize when I am in the right.
I find it strange that of all the posts to this newsgroup it was my
suggestion that Dorsch sometimes posts without being sure of his facts
that has prompted this criticism from Draney. Does Draney believe
Dorsch never makes careless accusations which sometimes prove to be
incorrect?
As for never being wrong, I don't know what I am supposed
to do about this. Does Draney want me to make some erroneous
charges that I would then be obliged to apologize for? I try to
avoid doing things like that but perhaps that is contrary to the
spirit of this group. Although I haven't noticed a lot of
acknowledgements of error. Speaking of which I haven't noticed
much in the way of apologies from Dorsch. I don't count posts
like his recent "apology" to Smythe. If it should turn out that
Hanken was not convicted of a felony will Draney request that
Dorsch sincerely apologize to Hanken for claiming otherwise?
James B. Shearer
j...@watson.ibm.com
on Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:39:08 -0800,
"Tom Klem" <the...@lvcm.com> writes:
>Thanks for getting this story out.
>
>My search engine sucks. I tried to find this last year when I first heard of
>it.
The story is in the Los Angeles Times archives (see
www.latimes.com). It costs $2 to look at (personal use only which I
doubt includes posting it to this newsgroup). You shouldn't expect a
general search engine to find it.
James B. Shearer
Tom Klem
--
Tom Klem
Keep your eyes on the prize!
<j...@watson.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:20010307....@yktvmv.WATSON.IBM.COM...
TOMDORSCH
>>I think it's clear that Bill accused you of using the Hanken story in an
>>inappropriate manner
"Inappropriate manner" is a concept that troubles me.
For one thing, Smythe is so prejudiced about these
issues that anything he says can be discounted. He
is the opposite of an honest broker on any issue
associated with Goichberg or his best friend.
For another thing, Hanken's homicide has been a
common topic of conversation among the USCF
in-crowd for six months or more. Everybody who
is anybody knows all about it.
Is it right that those who nobody will talk to, like
Johnsonpride, or the out-group readers of this
forum who don't dabble in USCF politics, should
be kept ignorant? Do we want to consciously
structure our information explosion so that some
things are common knowledge among a group
of elitists but taboo among others?
I'm constantly in trouble because I am one insider
who is willing to tell the truth about individuals who
violate their fiduciary responsibilities to the USCF.
I've been sanctioned by the Ethix Committee for
laying it on the line about Goichberg's conflicts
of interest. Whistleblowers have a tough row to
hoe.
But the alternative is that bums who have robbed
us once are elected over and over to do it again.
Why not expose them? Certainly their official acts
of dishonesty should be exposed.
Whether their private acts, like Hanken's homicide,
deserve wider mention are a matter of dispute.
While politicians deserve some privacy, the trend
is clearly toward complete exposure--witness the
Clinton experience.
The trend is to make character an issue. And a man
who has been convicted of a homicide obviously has
a character issue. The fact that he is Goichberg's
best friend in chess does not change that fact, although
it certainly rankles the Goichberg disciples.
For me, the best test is to rigorously stick to the facts.
If they can't show you lied, then they can only gripe
about how much others deserve access to the truth.
Regards,
Tom Dorsch
Tom Klem
expense a trial. Hanken was convicted, but of what? The State of California,
may have plea bargained with him for a lesser charge, thus allowing for
community service.
Homicide it was.
--
Tom Klem
" ... and Atom bombs"
<j...@watson.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:20010307....@yktvmv.WATSON.IBM.COM...
Michael Cummings
wrote:
> on 6 Mar 2001 23:00:04 -0600,
> Bruce Draney <bdr...@novia.net> writes:
>> At least based on this report, it appears that Mr. Dorsch did correctly
>>refer to it as a felony. While I don't particularly like dragging
>>people's misfortunes or calamities onto RGCP just for embarrassment's
>>sake, Mr. Shearer and Sam were apparently incorrect in claiming Dorsch
>>had misreported or lied about it being a felony.
>
> Dorsch claimed Hanken had been convicted of a felony. The
>press report indicates he was accused of a felony. I would hope you
>realize there is a big difference.
Nobody has disputed he plead nolo contendere, so what's your point? The
press release was from before the conviction. If these were the charges,
and he did plead no contest, he was undeed convicted of a felony. On
second thought, I know your point. It was to act as if the press report
was the only piece of evidence to help maintain your self-styled "oh so
above the fray" persona.
,-----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
> Mike Cummings | "Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately <
> mi...@annihilator.net | it kills all its pupils." <
> ICQ #34152632 | --Hector Berlioz <
`-----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
David Pelletier
To be fair, the quoted article stated he was charged with "felony
drunk driving", while the statement by Tom D. reported a later
conviction of (I seem to recall) involuntary vehicular homicide.
To this point, we haven't seen evidence to either confirm or deny
this.
David
Chessphoto
current week, because the previous title had to do with Sloan. Now, the thread
tells me that Hanken was convicted of manslaughter while driving drunk. If
this is so, why isn;t he in jail?
(I've seen him today at the National Open.)
Fraternally,
Jerome Bibuld
gens una sumus
Tom Klem
--
Tom Klem
" ... and Atom bombs"
"Chessphoto" <chess...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20010309010924...@ng-bh1.aol.com...
Bill Smythe
> .... If
>this is so, why isn;t he in jail?
______________
I think it's possible he was charged originally with a felony, but convicted
ultimately of a misdemeanor.
Bill Smythe
Wickdeer3
>
>I think it's possible he was charged originally with a felony, but convicted
>ultimately of a misdemeanor.
>
This is a VERY common plea bargain scenario.
Wick Deer
cavema...@127.0.0.1
I was looking for another published report to close this thread, but without
success. I do think that there is an issue raised by the original report
that should be addressed. In summary, the original report stated that Jerry
was held on suspicion of DUI. I believe (but do not know) that due to health
reasons Jerry does not drink. Implications that Jerry was DUI are probably
incorrect.
Wick notes that this is a common plea bargain. The nth-hand information
I have is that this was a wrong-place/wrong-time accident with no felony
intent or action on Jerry's part. Certainly, my prayers go out to both the
victim's family and to Jerry.
I think it's time to let this thread go away.
Tom Klem
widow and child been initiated?
They will sorely miss the bread winner here, and Mr Hanken should have the
decency to attempt to help them.
Tom Klem
<cavema...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:3aaf...@news.newsfeeds.com...
Chesspride
>widow and child been initiated?
>
>They will sorely miss the bread winner here, and Mr Hanken should have the
>decency to attempt to help them.
You keep harping on this point...why?
This was an accident. I think Kevin said it best...JH was in the wrong place
at the wrong time...and both parties here suffered.
It is all-too-easy to blame the alleged perpetrator...when in fact...we have a
situation that was neither wanted nor purposely created by either side.
There is a strong tendency these days to criminalize accidents.
ECJ
Chesspride
>>I think it's possible he was charged originally with a felony, but convicted
>>ultimately of a misdemeanor.
>>
>
>This is a VERY common plea bargain scenario.
Especially because prosecuters are notorious for piling on and overcharging in
the first place.
ECJ
Tom Klem
I am not criminalizing a homicide, nor portraying it as anything but the
tragedy it is. The other thing that goes on nowadays, is the victims are
abandoned. By the state, and by the perp. By the way, Hanken is not an
alleged perpetrator as your debate 101 logic would have the reader believe.
He IS the convicted perpetrator, albeit plea bargaining saved the state of
California 50k per each of year of the deserved sentences expense to the
state to house, feed and clothe him.
A man who won't take a field sobriety test, deservedly needs some time in
the hoose-gow to reflect upon his life, and contributions to and from it.
The victims here are not one Jerry Hanken, but the wife (went to the
hospital in serious condition too, as I recall the latimes article) and the
son, who lost his primary means of support, and the love of a father.
I guess the state figured that if these unfortunate victims end up on the
dole because of Hanken, at least they won't take the double hit by paying
for Hanken's incarceration too. First time offender? And all that.
Quit trying to soft pedal this. Quit trying to make brownie points here.
Hanken committed a homicide, with tragic results and consequences. It was an
accident. So what?
Tom Klem
"Chesspride" <chess...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010314200746...@ng-ci1.aol.com...
Tom Klem
There you go again.
A purportedly dangerous felon, Jerry Hanken, takes a four thousand pound
vehicle (twice the weight of a WWII 15 inch battleship shell), drives around
the streets of LA in either a distracted, or disabled manner, and you say
the prosecutors were "piling on" and "overcharging" him?
I think Mr Hanken, should thank his lucky stars that he is not in a
California penal institution, and tell you to shut the hell up.
What's the bank account ID, and name of the Bank, where I can send
contributions to the victims? Talk about that. Not Hanken. It's alot less
disgusting.
Tom Klem
Chesspride
>Quit trying to soft pedal this. Quit trying to make brownie points here.
>Hanken committed a homicide, with tragic results and consequences. It was an
>accident. So what?
The point is that some are using this accident to advance a pathetic chess
politics agenda.
THAT is the thing to fight.
ECJ
Chesspride
>A man who won't take a field sobriety test, deservedly needs some time in
>the hoose-gow to reflect upon his life, and contributions to and from it.
Wrong. There are many folks who object to the test without ever having consumed
a substance.
Don't assume facts not in evidence.
ECJ
Frank Romano
news:20010315132133...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
> >"The driver, Jerome Hanken, 66, of Los Angeles was arrested on suspicion
of
> >felony drunk driving, Woody said."
> >
>
> Well, for my tastes, the killing of a young father in front of his family
is
> simply too much of a real tragedy to be a continuing dialectic on this NG.
> Could we possibly drop it?
>
NO - this scandal seems to generate plenty of interest.
If you don't like it, then skip over it. No need to censor a particular
discussion. This is one of the most interesting threads I've seen
all year.
Frank Romano
> >
> Only in Liam's world is sexual orientation a "sin"...those days are long
gone.
>
> ECJ
Sexual orientation as a sin is part of the conservation right-wing agenda,
which
Liam liberally subscribes to. Alas, with pResident Bush in the White House,
expect a resurgence of homophobia.
Tom Klem
With all due respect to you (you are obviously a good guy), it is not homos
that I'm afriad of. It is the pandemic aids virus. Apparently, now that some
anti-aids cocktails (combinations of drugs to fight aids) are providing
slightly longer life spans to the rich and famous, a resurgence of the bath
house scene is taking place.
This alarms everyone who knows about it, and regrettably is a characteristic
of the damned (who don't give a damn, afterall, now do they?). "If we give
this disease to everyone, then everyone has a stake in seeing it cured" is
also on the lips of some homosexual advocacy groups as well.
Their behavior and lack of care for their fellow human being makes them
objects of fear and hatred, in my opinion. Fear, because you might have a
child influenced by the homosexual 'cute' agenda, at a time when his or her
sexuality is naturally unestablished. Hatred because these people are
organized to make converts of innocents.
Take this article from a current news magazine, and see if you can spot the
humanity of the homosexual position. Or, see if you can provide information
that the gay lifestyle is gay or cute, like the homosexual activists would
propagandize.
http://www.newsday.com/ap/text/national/ap747.htm
I know that many black americans feel the democrat party is their friend. To
those I say, just look at what Mr Clinton consistently did, not what he
said. That should be proof enough.
I'm not saying that the republicans are the answer. Clearly, they too are
part of our problem.
Tom Klem
"Frank Romano" <f_ro...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:O8YgoairAHA.298@cpmsnbbsa09...
ASCACHESS
>reasons Jerry does not drink. Implications that Jerry was DUI are probably
>incorrect.
>I think it's time to let this thread go away.
>
Certainly Hanken would like the thread to go away.
Just one unanswered question.
If he had not been drinking, then why would he refuse a field sobriety test?
If he had been drinking and since he has diabetes, then it might not have been
an accident. Which is not to say that Hanken intentionally hit anyone. It is
to say that if I roll a log down a hill with indifference and if the log hits
someone. That would not be an accident.
It would be good to have more facts. There must be a public record of these
proceedings.
Richard Peterson
Chessphoto
I don't pretend to answer for Jerry Hanken -- with whom I almost always
disagree on political matters -- but I can understand someone refusing to take
a "sobriety test" on constitutional -- if not human liberty -- grounds. That
would seem to me to be an excellect reason for such a refusal.
>Just one unanswered question.
>If he had not been drinking, then why would he refuse a field sobriety test?
>
Fraternally,
ABlue892
>
>With all due respect to you (you are obviously a good guy), it is not homos
>that I'm afriad of. It is the pandemic aids virus. Apparently, now that some
>anti-aids cocktails (combinations of drugs to fight aids) are providing
>slightly longer life spans to the rich and famous, a resurgence of the bath
>house scene is taking place.
Wow, I had no idea you were such a massive bigot. You think only homosexuals
spread AIDS? Hold your breath and take a big jump into the 21st Century.
Sadly you are probably representative of the typical ignorant American. Try
this, when you watch old videos of people mistreating blacks and asking
yourself how this could have happened, just insert homosexuals in the black
role (yes, it's the same thing!) and see how much easier it becomes. This
"bathhouse" nonsense is no different than the scare tactic "the blacks want to
steal our women and live in our houses" of the 50s.
Tom Klem
"ABlue892" <ablu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010317005506...@ng-mi1.aol.com...
I don't have to fantasize. I simply read the CDC reports.
Sadly, your anti-bigot stance, identifies you in the group of modern day
homosexual evangelists. Anybody says anything against this disgusting
practice, and that person is automatically a bigot.
I am neither a bigot, nor a homosexual; and, in the sixties, seventies and
eighties, my business put me in very close contact with homosexuals,
heterosexuals, horny men and women, elephants, tigers, and all manner of
living creature. I dislike none, and count among my best friends, all manner
of living creature, sexual orientation not an issue.
Homosexual evangelists, on the other hand, spray their emotional defecant on
any one who does not care to take part in their religious crusade to infect
the human race with the AIDS virus.
I'm afraid, that we will just have to agree to disagree on this subject, and
let it go at that.
Tom Klem
ABlue892
>any one who does not care to take part in their religious crusade to infect
>the human race with the AIDS virus.
>
This is a joke right? No one can really be this insane and walking around?
Tom Klem
No Eric,
This is a NEWS group. Hanken's shenanigans are news, from the pants dropping
episode, to the destruction of Lone Pine, to the homicide of a mother and
young son's father and provider.
NEWS.
You are the one with the axe to grind, and you keep this all alive, by
trying out your debating 101 tactics to soft-pedal Hanken's actions. Knock
it off. Give us the bank account number and name of the bank. Let the
checkbooks be open and let American Chess do something good and decent for a
change.
Tom Klem
Tom Klem
I believe that the laws on driving, which is a privilege and therefore not
subject to the same strictures and protections of the US Constitution as are
say, owning and living in a home, say that if you refuse the test, you are
assumed to be guilty of driving under the influence, and subject to arrest.
In "Killer" Hanken's case, this is what occurred. I would contemplate any
attorney practicing before the California bar to validate or invalidate my
opinion or perceptions here, not being one myself.
I thought you knew that.
Still no bank account to deposit into?
Tom Klem
"Chesspride" <chess...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010314212417...@ng-ci1.aol.com...
Don C. Aldrich
wrote:
>I believe that the laws on driving, which is a privilege and therefore not
>subject to the same strictures and protections of the US Constitution as are
>say, owning and living in a home, say that if you refuse the test, you are
>assumed to be guilty of driving under the influence, and subject to arrest.
I do *not* know the laws in Nevada, but the states I am familiar with
follow the same model. Failure to provide a breath/urine/blood sample
on request of a peace officer is often a misdemeanor. You are not
asssumed to be guilty of dwi, but you are now susceptible of being
charged with two separate crimes--failure to give the sample, and
still charged with DWI.
The DWI case isn't necessarily tougher without the test. The officers
testify as to behavior indicative of intoxication, the jury is also
told that the person refused to take the test, and there may also be
video/audio. It is actually easier to win a low test DWI by arguing
the machine isn't accurate. You know what conclusions the jury will
draw from a test refusal.
And of course, you can still be arrested on the DWI charge.
The fact that the right to drive isn't constitutionally protected does
not of course strip one of the constitutional rights of the accused.
You are confusing the licensing privilege with criminal sanctions.
The loss of licensing is civil in nature, not criminal. Jerry
probably lost his license for failure to provide the sample. However,
that has no bearing on the criminal matter.
As far as pleading a felony down to a misdemeanor, the defendant has
to have some kind of case, especially when there is a serious injury
or death. They usually go after these pretty tough. Perhaps the
person stepped in front of the car, and perhaps he wasn't drunk, or at
least they couldn't prove it.
In other words, you won't usually get this type of reduction unless
the prosecution thinks it cannot win the felony. I am certainly no
fan of JH, but I would guess the facts as reported are not complete as
to how it happened.
Best,
==Dondo
TOMDORSCH
Uh, actually, 'Pride, you were the first harper. You
took a casual mention in an unrelated thread and
blew it into a story line.
>It is all-too-easy to blame the alleged perpetrator.
I agree with you 100%, with the slight emendation
of changing "alleged perp" to "convicted criminal."
It happens every day. People do bad things and
get convicted of crimes for doing them.
>There is a strong tendency these days to criminalize accidents.
Right. Somebody is barreling down the street without
looking at the road, high on meds, and rams through
a group of innocent pedestrians in a crosswalk,
killing one of them.
In 'Pride's world, drivers like that get shrug and a
fare-thee-well. Of course, 'Pride thinks Scam is
harmless and entertaining, too.
Thank God we don't live in the nasty and brutish
world envisioned by 'Pride, where the criminals
have rights and the victims have, well, some limited
rights to be pitied.
Regards,
Tom Dorsch
Tom Klem
discussion) portion of the article, which I shall add at the bottom of his
disgusting post.
"Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:3ab06ce4...@nntp.mindspring.com...
> On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 00:29:04 -0600, Don C. Aldrich
> <do...@skypoint.com> wrote:
>
> > Jerry probably lost his license for failure to provide the sample.
However,
> >that has no bearing on the criminal matter.
>
> Where do you get your facts from? Jerry says that he did not refuse to
> provide a sample. Also, the news report does not say that he refused
> to provide a sample.
>
> >As far as pleading a felony down to a misdemeanor, the defendant has
> >to have some kind of case, especially when there is a serious injury
> >or death. They usually go after these pretty tough. Perhaps the
> >person stepped in front of the car, and perhaps he wasn't drunk, or at
> >least they couldn't prove it.
>
> What I heard back in August is that a child skated onto the street on
> a scooter and his father ran into the street to grab him out of the
> way. Both were hit and the father was killed. The press report tends
> to confirm this although it is slightly different.
>
> The press report states:
>
> Pedestrian Dies After Being Hit in Crosswalk; Driver Arrested
>
> 08/28/2000
> Los Angeles Times
> Valley Edition
> Page B-5
> Copyright 2000 / The Times Mirror Company
>
>
> GLENDALE -- A 41-year-old pedestrian in a marked crosswalk was struck
> and killed Saturday evening by a motorist later arrested on suspicion
> of drunk driving, according to police.
>
> The unidentified victim was crossing Colorado Boulevard at Langley
> Street with his wife and 10-year-old son when they were hit about 8:15
> p.m., said Sgt. Jim Woody of the Glendale Police Department.
>
> "The 10-year-old was riding his Razor scooter, while his parents were
> walking behind him," Woody said.
>
Here's the part that ACE REPORTER Spam Sloan left out:
"They were in the crosswalk when struck by a car westbound on Langley, Woody
said. The father suffered severe head injuries. All three were taken to
Huntington Memorial Hospital in Pasadena, where the man died later that
night. The mother and son were treated for minor injuries.
"The driver, Jerome Hanken, 66, of Los Angeles was arrested on suspicion of
felony drunk driving, Woody said."
END OF COMPLETED QUOTE
This is so typical of La Caissa Nostra. They cover up for each others'
missdeeds and missadventures, and believe themselves to be both above the
law and above the average citizen's level.
Not only does Spam Sloan of the infamous Sloanberg axis, lie, defecate,
defame and slander in furtherance of the Sloanberg's desire to take control
of your hobby, but he believes all of us to be idiots. The information,
which Sloanberg left out, shows that equivocation, lying by ommission, lying
by commission or, in short, whatever it takes, is just fine with these guys.
--
Tom Klem
La Caissa Nostra, that disgusting old gang of bigots and hate mongers.
Goichberg, Caballo, ChessKlink (Donnie the Weasel), Spam Sloan, Eric the
maggot, "Killer" Hanken, Ferguson, Jarecki, Magruder, Conver, bozo, et al.
Nevada will never be the same. And I'm betting our state is not the only
one.
TOMDORSCH
>that should be addressed. In summary, the original report stated that Jerry
>was held on suspicion of DUI.
Hanken told me in Vegas that he was arrested on
suspicion of DUI because he flunked a field sobriety
test. He claims all thoughts of a felony filing were
thrown out when his blood test came back clean two
weeks later.
He says he takes prescription barbiturates for pain.
These drugs are known to affect driving abiltiy. He
claims he was unable to "stand on one leg" because
of the necrosis associated with his Type 2 Diabetes.
He was convicted of negligence because he admitted
he took his eyes off the road to fiddle with a tape
recorder on his passenger seat. There is presumptive
negligence when you run down a pedestrian in a
crosswalk.
Regards,
Tom Dorsch
Sam Sloan
<do...@skypoint.com> wrote:
> Jerry probably lost his license for failure to provide the sample. However,
>that has no bearing on the criminal matter.
Where do you get your facts from? Jerry says that he did not refuse to
provide a sample. Also, the news report does not say that he refused
to provide a sample.
>As far as pleading a felony down to a misdemeanor, the defendant has
>to have some kind of case, especially when there is a serious injury
>or death. They usually go after these pretty tough. Perhaps the
>person stepped in front of the car, and perhaps he wasn't drunk, or at
>least they couldn't prove it.
What I heard back in August is that a child skated onto the street on
Tom Klem
Tom Klem
"Don C. Aldrich" <do...@skypoint.com> wrote in message
news:0kn0btkhmna8s0kth...@4ax.com...
AlforChess
>felony drunk driving, Woody said."
>
Well, for my tastes, the killing of a young father in front of his family is
simply too much of a real tragedy to be a continuing dialectic on this NG.
Could we possibly drop it?
For what it's worth, I've known Jerry Hanken for exactly 20 years. Whatever
else is the case, I've never seen him drunk or even slightly tipsy. I think
I've seen him take two drinks (on widely separate occasions)--both of which
were en prise. (He doesn't really like to drink, but, hey, they were free.)
Of course, this does not mean he couldn't be arrested on suspicion of
something. But I'll bet my GameTime clock that the blood test revealed zilch
booze.
Whatever that's worth. A man's dead. Let's pass onto shallower topics that
match our dispositions.
Regards, al
li...@ork.net
An "accident" is when a meteor hits a car and the occupant dies.
It's not an accident when one party to a car crash is negligent. Usually,
in such cases, where there's enough evidence of significant negligence, a
criminal action is brought.
Kenneth Sloan
> li...@ork.net wrote:
>
> >You're right .... Let's discuss .... parting gifts from the USCF ....
> ___________
>
> In another thread, please. Or at least change the name of this one.
>
> Bill Smythe
What's wrong with the name "Parting gifts?" for a thread about parting gifts?
--
Kenneth Sloan sl...@uab.edu
Computer and Information Sciences (205) 934-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX (205) 934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://www.cis.uab.edu/info/faculty/sloan/
Bill Smythe
li...@ork.net
> Whatever that's worth. A man's dead. Let's pass onto shallower topics that
> match our dispositions.
You're right.
Let's discuss your parting gifts from the USCF, and those of your friend.
li...@ork.net
One must wonder about this statement, coming as it does from an individual
who outs innocent dead chess players as having been homosexuals.
Talk about agendas.
li...@ork.net
No.
Chesspride
>One must wonder about this statement, coming as it does from an individual
>who outs innocent dead chess players as having been homosexuals.
>
>Talk about agendas.
Right.
Geez...I guess discussing whether George Washington Carver was black would
count as "outing" him too...
li...@ork.net
>>One must wonder about this statement, coming as it does from an individual
>>who outs innocent dead chess players as having been homosexuals.
>>Talk about agendas.
> Right.
> Geez...I guess discussing whether George Washington Carver was black would
> count as "outing" him too...
Do homosexuals play chess differently? Is that why one needs to root them
out?
> Only in Liam's world is sexual orientation a "sin"...those days are long gone.
Whatever gets you through the night, Eric.
ches...@mindspring.com
li...@ork.net wrote in message ...
>Chesspride <chess...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>>One must wonder about this statement, coming as it does from an
individual
>>>who outs innocent dead chess players as having been homosexuals.
(Snip)
>> Geez...I guess discussing whether George Washington Carver was black
would
>> count as "outing" him too...
>
>Do homosexuals play chess differently? Is that why one needs to root them
>out?
Liam, Eric, are you discussing Paul Morphy by any chance? Is there any
evidence that Morphy was gay? I understand Chess Pride magazine printed an
article on Morphy, but I haven't read it.
Thanks,
Neil Brennen
Bill Smythe
>What's wrong with the name "Parting gifts?" for a thread about parting
gifts?
____________
Nothing. I already changed the name. It used to be "Much needed facts".
Bill Smythe
ches...@mindspring.com
Tom Klem wrote in message ...
>
>Sadly, your anti-bigot stance, identifies you in the group of modern day
>homosexual evangelists. Anybody says anything against this disgusting
>practice, and that person is automatically a bigot.
Tom, do you lead your whole life classify people as "for me" and "against
me"?
>
>I am neither a bigot, nor a homosexual; and, in the sixties, seventies and
>eighties, my business put me in very close contact with homosexuals,
>heterosexuals, horny men and women, elephants, tigers, and all manner of
>living creature. I dislike none, and count among my best friends, all
manner
>of living creature, sexual orientation not an issue.
I think the catch phrase is "Some of my best friends are...."
>Homosexual evangelists, on the other hand, spray their emotional defecant
on
>any one who does not care to take part in their religious crusade to infect
>the human race with the AIDS virus.
My God Tom, how can an intelligent man say such things?
Neil Brennen
Sam Sloan
wrote:
> in the sixties, seventies and eighties, my business put me in very close contact
> with homosexuals, heterosexuals, horny men and women, elephants, tigers,
> and all manner of living creature.
Tom Klem used to work for the Circus Circus Casino.
Tom Klem
<ches...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:98vjq6$mt3$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
Maybe I'm not intelligent.
Tom Klem
Tom Klem
Not exactly.
What would you know anyway, Bozo.
Tom Klem
ASCACHESS
>disagree on political matters -- but I can understand someone refusing to
>take
>a "sobriety test" on constitutional -- if not human liberty -- grounds. That
>would seem to me to be an
>excellect reason for such a refusal.
>
>Fraternally,
>
>Jerome Bibuld
>
Jerry says he took the test and passed the test.
Until proven otherwise, I will take him at his word.
Richard Peterson
ABlue892
>Not exactly.
>
>What would you know anyway, Bozo.
>
>Tom Klem
>
Your "Evangelical Homosexual AIDS spreading crusade" conspiracy theory tops
anything Sam has ever said, written, or posted. Try opening your mind for a
brief instant to the possibility that just because YOU happen to find
homosexual practices disgusting doesn't make it objectively true.
StanB
Frank
"Tom Klem" <the...@nospamlvcm.com> wrote in message
news:tb572fg...@corp.supernews.com...
> Frank,
>
> With all due respect to you (you are obviously a good guy),
I know. I know. :-)
> it is not homos
> that I'm afriad of. It is the pandemic aids virus. Apparently, now that
some
> anti-aids cocktails (combinations of drugs to fight aids) are providing
> slightly longer life spans to the rich and famous, a resurgence of the
bath
> house scene is taking place.
>
Tom:
So you associate AIDS as an entirely gay affliction?
That's what straights thought twenty (20) years ago. So a blind eye was
turned
to an infectious and deadly disease. "It's only gays, who cares?" lots of
people
privately thought. And when an occasional straight contracted the disease,
people
erroneously assumed he was gay on the side. And then when intravenous drug
users
were afflicted, the prevaling attitude was, "It's only drug users. So what?
AIDS is
God's way of dealing with drug users and gays." (thank you conservative
religious
fanatics)
From what I've read, the vast majority of AIDS sufferers live in Africa. And
yet, the
large pharmaceutical companies won't cut prices so the poor people can use
their
drugs, and at the same time they're suing small drug companies for patent
infringement.
Your anger (if that is the right word) seems to be misplaced. Blame the
spread of AIDS
on straights, who refused to deal with the problem from the beginning. At
the corporate-controlled
media, who did not want to report it for fear of losing viewer/readership.
At the the Reagan
administration for cutting non-military civilian funding. At the hospitals
and medical centers, who
did not want to treat AIDS patients or find a cure because the study was
considered disreputable.
If people did their jobs like they were supposed to do, we would not be in
this mess.
j...@watson.ibm.com
on 17 Mar 2001 02:29:11 GMT,
asca...@aol.com (ASCACHESS) writes:
>>I believe (but do not know) that due to health
>>reasons Jerry does not drink. Implications that Jerry was DUI are probably
>>incorrect.
>
>>I think it's time to let this thread go away.
>>
>
>Certainly Hanken would like the thread to go away.
>
>Just one unanswered question.
>If he had not been drinking, then why would he refuse a field sobriety test?
>
>If he had been drinking and since he has diabetes, then it might not have been
>an accident. Which is not to say that Hanken intentionally hit anyone. It is
>to say that if I roll a log down a hill with indifference and if the log hits
>someone. That would not be an accident.
>
>It would be good to have more facts. There must be a public record of these
>proceedings.
>
>Richard Peterson
Speaking of public records where is your bankruptcy filing
to be found?
James B. Shearer
Tom Klem
"ABlue892" <ablu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010317164339...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
Every word of what I said, sadly, is true.
Check the congressional record, the Internet, and other sources of
'uncensored' testimony. This is not just my idea.
Tom Klem
Tom Klem
"Frank" <f_ro...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:OjcNdKzrAHA.300@cpmsnbbsa07...
> WARNING - NO CHESS CONTENT
>
>
> "Tom Klem" <the...@nospamlvcm.com> wrote in message
> news:tb572fg...@corp.supernews.com...
> > Frank,
> >
> > With all due respect to you (you are obviously a good guy),
>
> I know. I know. :-)
>
> > it is not homos
> > that I'm afriad of. It is the pandemic aids virus. Apparently, now that
> some
> > anti-aids cocktails (combinations of drugs to fight aids) are providing
> > slightly longer life spans to the rich and famous, a resurgence of the
> bath
> > house scene is taking place.
> >
>
> Tom:
>
> So you associate AIDS as an entirely gay affliction?
>
See my earlier post today, I quote the last known statistical data.
Seventy-five percent of AIDS victims are homosexual, eight to ten are
homosexual drug abusers (needle sharing). In my book, it is what it is.
> That's what straights thought twenty (20) years ago. So a blind eye was
> turned
> to an infectious and deadly disease. "It's only gays, who cares?" lots of
> people
I'm not sure about this assertion. The fact is the homosexual agenda has
done a pretty good job confusing this issue and covering up the facts.
> privately thought. And when an occasional straight contracted the disease,
> people
> erroneously assumed he was gay on the side. And then when intravenous drug
> users
> were afflicted, the prevaling attitude was, "It's only drug users. So
what?
> AIDS is
> God's way of dealing with drug users and gays." (thank you conservative
> religious
> fanatics)
>
I do not agree with the religious fanatics who I've heard say this thing.
> From what I've read, the vast majority of AIDS sufferers live in Africa.
And
> yet, the
> large pharmaceutical companies won't cut prices so the poor people can use
> their
> drugs, and at the same time they're suing small drug companies for patent
> infringement.
>
You are correct about the largest number of victims and their location. I'm
primarily concerned about what has happened in the US, although I'm not
entirely sure that the anti-drug company propaganda is correct.
> Your anger (if that is the right word) seems to be misplaced. Blame the
> spread of AIDS
> on straights, who refused to deal with the problem from the beginning. At
> the corporate-controlled
> media, who did not want to report it for fear of losing viewer/readership.
Here we must disagree. Had AIDS been treated like leprousy, for example, and
the Molokai facility been reopened to accept a new class of patient, I don't
think we would be having this discussion.
BTW, I'm not angry. Frightened for my children, more accurately describes
this.
> At the the Reagan
> administration for cutting non-military civilian funding. At the hospitals
> and medical centers, who
> did not want to treat AIDS patients or find a cure because the study was
> considered disreputable.
>
This is the first time I ever heard of this. I think the congressional
record will show that AIDS spending went up during the Reagan
administration. This is not about fired air traffic controllers, or
Republican vs Democrat. This is about a concerted 'fight back' campaign
promoted by homosexuals, taken advantage of by politcians for their own
reasons.
> If people did their jobs like they were supposed to do, we would not be in
> this mess.
>
>
I totally agree with this last statement. The information which I have been
able to develop is that the medical profession was prevented from doing
their jobs by politicians searching for votes and the almighty dollar.
Tom Klem
Chesspride
>This is the first time I ever heard of this. I think the congressional
>record will show that AIDS spending went up during the Reagan
>administration. This is not about
I humbly suggest that Larry Kramer would disagree...and that he'd go apoplectic
over your assertions.
ECJ
Tom Klem
"Chesspride" <chess...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010318010014...@ng-xc1.aol.com...
I'm not sure if I would enjoy seeing that or not.
Let me think.
TOMDORSCH
>Until proven otherwise, I will take him at his word.
>
>Richard Peterson
I spoke to him at the NO at length about this. More
precisely, I listened at length.
He took and failed a field sobriety test where he
was required to perform tasks requiring agility.
The reason for this failure was his diabetes-
related necrosis in his extremities (per Hanken).
He can't stand on one leg for any length of time.
He took and passed a blood test at the police
station because he was not actually drunk. He
is a teetotaler (again, for medical reasons--
liquor interacts in negative ways with oral
and injected diabetes medications). Per
Hanken, any thought of a felony charge was
dismissed when his test came back clean
in two weeks.
He made some damaging admissions to the
investigating officer at the time of the incident.
He says he was distraught, and admitted that
he takes prescription barbiturates (painkillers)
that can impair driving ability. He feels that his
damaging admissions, including statements
of personal responsibility, are what led to his
eventual conviction on criminal charges.
Regards,
Tom Dorsch
Bill Smythe
>I spoke to [ Hanken ] at the NO at length about this. More
>precisely, I listened at length.
______________
Yes, he does tend to tell one more than one wants to know. He told me the
same story you related, at about equal length.
Bill Smythe
Timothy Hanke
news:20010319133327...@ng-mp1.aol.com...
I agree with ABlue892 that the Morbidly Obese are possibly even more
dangerous to society than the Homosexual Agenda (though both are dangerous).
Exhibit A: Jerry Hanken, convicted criminal. (We always knew it would come
to this eventually.)
Hanken, who is certainly a fellow traveler of the Morbidly Obese, now has
actually taken to running down innocent people in crosswalks (fathers of
young children, no less).
However, according to Hanken himself, his conviction is all a mistake, based
on his own "damaging admissions ... of personal responsibility" at the scene
of the crime.
It is unlike Hanken to admit personal responsibility for his own actions, so
we can only conclude that his admitted barbiturate use somehow led to the
uncharacteristic confession. If he had been himself at the time, he would
have brazened out the whole thing, and possibly even threatened a civil suit
against his victim's family for the damage to his front bumper.
Timothy Hanke
Tom Klem
--
Tom Klem
"Size matters not"
---Yoda
"Timothy Hanke" <timoth...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:8gUt6.1524$De3.3...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
li...@ork.net
> From what I've read, the vast majority of AIDS sufferers live in Africa. And
> yet, the
> large pharmaceutical companies won't cut prices so the poor people can use
> their
> drugs,
Do you do anything in real life worth anything?
How about cutting your charges for it in half, and only take $5 an hour
for your work?
I understand your mental infirmities, but even someone like you should
realize that drug companies have to recoup costs (and, gasp, maybe even
make a profit--at least until your socialist utopia takes over).
And if prices are cut dramatically just for humanitarian purposes in
Africa, the distributors there will simply resell it into channels here in
the US, for a huge mark-up. Hell, even food in the 80's programs rarely
made it all the way, being used instead for "revolutionary armies."
Will you go there with your nose and make sure it gets distributed?
Frank Romano
> I understand your mental infirmities, but even someone like you should
> realize that drug companies have to recoup costs (and, gasp, maybe even
> make a profit--at least until your socialist utopia takes over).
>
> And if prices are cut dramatically just for humanitarian purposes in
> Africa, the distributors there will simply resell it into channels here in
> the US, for a huge mark-up. Hell, even food in the 80's programs rarely
> made it all the way, being used instead for "revolutionary armies."
>
I see that you've fallen for the industry's propaganda. Don't you have the
mental facilities for
reading anything critically? Much of the so-called costs by the drug
companies are borne by
the National Institute of Health (in other words, our tax dollars), which is
a good example of
socialism for corporations. Yet, the entire profit goes to the drug
companies.
By the way, how are your pharmaceutical stocks doing lately?