Srprising comment from Dvoretsky about My System
Offramp
Dvoretsky and Artur Yusupov, 2008 Edition Olms, The great MD makes the
following comment,
"“A number of books have been written about positional
play. By no means all of them deserve attention, but some of them
should
definitely be studied. And above all Aaron Nimzowitsch’s remarkable
book My System.”
I never really liked that book; I had the Bell edition which used an
antiquated font so I didn't persevers with it. I am surprised MD
thinks so much of it.
SearchingForMaxEuwe
> antiquated font so I didn't persevers with it. I am surprised MD
> thinks so much of it.
I don't know ...
Perhaps, and this is just a guess ....
he wasn't overly concerned with the font used by the
publisher as much as the actual Chess Knowledge
that was being conveyed and how effectively?
Go figure, rating a chess book based on the content
rather then the typface, ohhh the humanity!
Offramp
How gauche.
My Bell edition was in 5-point Haettenschweiler Bold. Diagrams were
drawn by hand. The paper was like Izal HTP.
Dvoretsky is a multi-multi-multi-multi-multi-multi-millionaire and he
probably has a gold-bound edition with ivory pages. Probably he has
some woman to turn the pages for him.
*That's* why he likes the book!
Wrmst rgds
Alan
help bot
> On 30 July, 15:00, SearchingForMaxEuwe <jebras...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I never really liked that book; I had the Bell edition which used an
> > > antiquated font so I didn't persevers with it. I am surprised MD
> > > thinks so much of it.
>
> > I don't know ...
>
> > Perhaps, and this is just a guess ....
>
> > he wasn't overly concerned with the font used by the
> > publisher as much as the actual Chess Knowledge
> > that was being conveyed and how effectively?
>
> > Go figure, rating a chess book based on the content
> > rather then the typface, ohhh the humanity!
My first thought upon reading this was that perhaps
Searching has never seen a /really poor/ font. If all
fonts were "acceptable" or better, then the criticism
above would make sense.
> How gauche.
I haven't the foggiest. When I left him he was
drunk, still up a Queen, but he had no idea which
way the pawns were heading and seemed not to
remember what to do when they reached the
eight rank. My guess is they called it a draw.
> My Bell edition was in 5-point Haettenschweiler Bold. Diagrams were
> drawn by hand. The paper was like Izal HTP.
>
> Dvoretsky is a multi-multi-multi-multi-multi-multi-millionaire and he
> probably has a gold-bound edition with ivory pages. Probably he has
> some woman to turn the pages for him.
> *That's* why he likes the book!
One wonders how Offramp might explain his
decision to acquire such a book, sight unseen.
In my experience, small fonts tend to be used
when it is necessary to cram a large amount
of material into a reasonable number of pages,
so there is a certain trade-off. Large fonts and
oodles of white-space tend to be the norm for
worthless layabouts, like say Andy Soltis, who
is not above inserting gigantic diagrams to fill
the page.
On occasion, I have acquired some book or
other in which the entire history of a chess
opening is discussed at some length, and this
approach can lead to the choice of a small
font-- and if it is a poor one, its tiny size can
compound the problem. I've also seen some
really poor chess diagrams-- who knows
what the publisher was thinking?
-- help bot
Kenneth Sloan
> In Secrets of Positional Play: School of Future Champions 4, by Mark
> Dvoretsky and Artur Yusupov, 2008 Edition Olms, The great MD makes the
> following comment,
> play. By no means all of them deserve attention, but some of them
> should
> book My System.�
>
> I never really liked that book; I had the Bell edition which used an
> antiquated font so I didn't persevers with it. I am surprised MD
> thinks so much of it.
It's better in the original German.
--
Kenneth Sloan Kennet...@gmail.com
Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://KennethRSloan.com/
RayLopez99
>
> Dvoretsky is a multi-multi-multi-multi-multi-multi-millionaire and he
> probably has a gold-bound edition with ivory pages. Probably he has
> some woman to turn the pages for him.
> *That's* why he likes the book!
>
Dvoretsky is rich? From selling his lame books? That's a first.
Likely he's rich, like GM Miguel Najdorf, from interests outside of
chess.
RL
Taylor Kingston
> On Jul 30, 11:04 am, Offramp <alaneobr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Dvoretsky is a multi-multi-multi-multi-multi-multi-millionaire and he
> > probably has a gold-bound edition with ivory pages. Probably he has
> > some woman to turn the pages for him.
> > *That's* why he likes the book!
>
> Dvoretsky is rich? From selling his lame books?
Two points:
1) Dvoretsky's books do sell much better than the average chess
book, but I seriously doubt he's rich. Getting rich from chess books
is like trying to win an Olympic sprint race by crawling.
2) IM Mark Dvoretsky is one of the most respected chess writers and
trainers in the world. Lopez calling his books "lame" is like a blind
man calling Rembrandt a lousy painter.
zdrakec
> Offramp wrote:
> > In Secrets of Positional Play: School of Future Champions 4, by Mark
> > Dvoretsky and Artur Yusupov, 2008 Edition Olms, The great MD makes the
> > following comment,
> > play. By no means all of them deserve attention, but some of them
> > should
> > book My System.”
>
> > antiquated font so I didn't persevers with it. I am surprised MD
> > thinks so much of it.
>
> It's better in the original German.
>
> --
> Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
> University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
> Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://KennethRSloan.com/
It's *even* better in the original Klingonese.
RayLopez99
wrote:
>
> > Dvoretsky is rich? From selling his lame books?
>
> Two points:
>
> 1) Dvoretsky's books do sell much better than the average chess
> book, but I seriously doubt he's rich. Getting rich from chess books
> is like trying to win an Olympic sprint race by crawling.
That's the point I was trying to make TK. Thanks for agreeing with
me. And learn to read.
> 2) IM Mark Dvoretsky is one of the most respected chess writers and
> trainers in the world. Lopez calling his books "lame" is like a blind
> man calling Rembrandt a lousy painter.
Reasonable people can differ on this TK. I thought from reading his
books--as a class "A" player-- that Dvoretsky spends too much time on
positions worthy of correspondence chess and not OTB play. His subtle
moves might win in correspondence chess, but in OTB play are just
"Primus inter pares"--first among equals. He puts too much emphasis
on the "best" move when in fact any good move often wins.
But reasonable people can differ on this last point. And if you
disagree, you're not being reasonable, as usual.
RL
Taylor Kingston
> On Jul 31, 10:10 am, Taylor Kingston <taylor.kings...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > > Dvoretsky is rich? From selling his lame books?
>
> > Two points:
>
> > 1) Dvoretsky's books do sell much better than the average chess
> > book, but I seriously doubt he's rich. Getting rich from chess books
> > is like trying to win an Olympic sprint race by crawling.
>
> That's the point I was trying to make TK. Thanks for agreeing with
> me. And learn to read.
>
> > 2) IM Mark Dvoretsky is one of the most respected chess writers and
> > trainers in the world. Lopez calling his books "lame" is like a blind
> > man calling Rembrandt a lousy painter.
>
> Reasonable people can differ on this TK. I thought from reading his
> books--as a class "A" player--
You're class A? The USCF lists four people named Ray or Raymond
Lopez, all of them below 800. What name do they have for you?
> Dvoretsky spends too much time on
> positions worthy of correspondence chess and not OTB play. His subtle
> moves might win in correspondence chess, but in OTB play are just
> "Primus inter pares"--first among equals. He puts too much emphasis
> on the "best" move when in fact any good move often wins.
Having had a small part in producing a Dvoretsky book, I don't agree
with your characterization.
As for OTB vs. postal, I'm not aware that Dvoretsky has had much if
any involvement with postal chess. In OTB chess, on the other hand, he
has had great success as a player (he was once regarded as the
strongest IM in the world) and even more as a trainer. His students
have included Kasparov, Anand, Topalov, Bareev, Lautier, Van Wely and
Yusupov. Four of his students went on to become Junior World
Champion.
> Reasonable people can differ on this TK.
True, but reasonable people are also civil. Tossing a gratuitous,
belittling insult ("lame books") at a man of obviously superior
attainments is the act of a crude yahoo, not a reasonable man.
RayLopez99
wrote:
> On Aug 1, 9:04 am, RayLopez99 <raylope...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Reasonable people can differ on this TK. I thought from reading his
> > books--as a class "A" player--
>
> You're class A? The USCF lists four people named Ray or Raymond
> Lopez, all of them below 800. What name do they have for you?
Haha. This is a pseudonym (that means 'fake name'). And I don't play
in USCF tourneys, but online and against a PC, from which I estimate
my strength.
>
> > Dvoretsky spends too much time on
> > positions worthy of correspondence chess and not OTB play. His subtle
> > moves might win in correspondence chess, but in OTB play are just
> > "Primus inter pares"--first among equals. He puts too much emphasis
> > on the "best" move when in fact any good move often wins.
>
> Having had a small part in producing a Dvoretsky book, I don't agree
> with your characterization.
Figures. Self interest and bias noted.
>
> As for OTB vs. postal, I'm not aware that Dvoretsky has had much if
> any involvement with postal chess. In OTB chess, on the other hand, he
> has had great success as a player (he was once regarded as the
> strongest IM in the world) and even more as a trainer. His students
> have included Kasparov, Anand, Topalov, Bareev, Lautier, Van Wely and
> Yusupov. Four of his students went on to become Junior World
> Champion.
>
No thanks to him. If the pupil surpasses the master, then the master
must be weaker than the pupil. So how much real influence can an IM
have over a GM? Yes, I know some football coaches are inspirational
to their younger players, but the point being aside from inspiration
(which I would argue in a thinking game like chess is not that
important), Dvoresky cannot have been that important to his proteges--
they were natural talents.
> > Reasonable people can differ on this TK.
>
> True, but reasonable people are also civil. Tossing a gratuitous,
> belittling insult ("lame books") at a man of obviously superior
> attainments is the act of a crude yahoo, not a reasonable man.
You are not a reasonable man, arse whole.
RL
Taylor Kingston
> On Aug 1, 9:33 am, Taylor Kingston <taylor.kings...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 1, 9:04 am, RayLopez99 <raylope...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Reasonable people can differ on this TK. I thought from reading his
> > > books--as a class "A" player--
>
> > You're class A? The USCF lists four people named Ray or Raymond
> > Lopez, all of them below 800. What name do they have for you?
>
> Haha. This is a pseudonym (that means 'fake name'). And I don't play
> in USCF tourneys, but online and against a PC, from which I estimate
> my strength.
In that case, I think from now on we will have to consider your name
and your claim to a Class A rating both equally unreal.
> > > Dvoretsky spends too much time on
> > > positions worthy of correspondence chess and not OTB play. His subtle
> > > moves might win in correspondence chess, but in OTB play are just
> > > "Primus inter pares"--first among equals. He puts too much emphasis
> > > on the "best" move when in fact any good move often wins.
>
> > Having had a small part in producing a Dvoretsky book, I don't agree
> > with your characterization.
>
> Figures. Self interest and bias noted.
Not bias; simply familiarity with the subject. A familiarity I
suspect you lack.
> > As for OTB vs. postal, I'm not aware that Dvoretsky has had much if
> > any involvement with postal chess. In OTB chess, on the other hand, he
> > has had great success as a player (he was once regarded as the
> > strongest IM in the world) and even more as a trainer. His students
> > have included Kasparov, Anand, Topalov, Bareev, Lautier, Van Wely and
> > Yusupov. Four of his students went on to become Junior World
> > Champion.
>
> No thanks to him. If the pupil surpasses the master, then the master
> must be weaker than the pupil.
What utterly bizarre logic. By that standard, a high school teacher
whose pupils all go on to become PhD's should be fired, because he is
so obviously inferior.
> So how much real influence can an IM
> have over a GM? Yes, I know some football coaches are inspirational
> to their younger players, but the point being aside from inspiration
> (which I would argue in a thinking game like chess is not that
> important), Dvoresky cannot have been that important to his proteges--
> they were natural talents.
I dare say Kasparov, Anand, Topalov, Bareev, Lautier, Van Wely and
Yusupov would eagerly contradict you.
> > > Reasonable people can differ on this TK.
>
> > True, but reasonable people are also civil. Tossing a gratuitous,
> > belittling insult ("lame books") at a man of obviously superior
> > attainments is the act of a crude yahoo, not a reasonable man.
>
> You are not a reasonable man, arse whole.
It's certain you are not a civil one. Is there a reverse Dale
Carnegie course? I think you must have taken one.
None
wrote:
"In that case, I think from now on we will have to consider your
name
and your claim to a Class A rating both equally unreal. "--The
Kingston
You see Ruy, there is a direct correlation between your rating and the
size of your penis.
madams
.
> You see Ruy, there is a direct correlation between your rating and the
> size of your penis.
The only thing (big) about this donkey is his (a'hole)
...
RayLopez99
>
> You see Ruy, there is a direct correlation between your rating and the
> size of your penis.
No, that's what TK thinks.
RL
RayLopez99
wrote:
> On Aug 1, 4:33 pm, RayLopez99 <raylope...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 1, 9:33 am, Taylor Kingston <taylor.kings...@comcast.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 1, 9:04 am, RayLopez99 <raylope...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Reasonable people can differ on this TK. I thought from reading his
> > > > books--as a class "A" player--
>
> > > You're class A? The USCF lists four people named Ray or Raymond
> > > Lopez, all of them below 800. What name do they have for you?
>
> > Haha. This is a pseudonym (that means 'fake name'). And I don't play
> > in USCF tourneys, but online and against a PC, from which I estimate
> > my strength.
>
> In that case, I think from now on we will have to consider your name
> and your claim to a Class A rating both equally unreal.
No, I just have enough sense to not post with my real name, since in
the non-virtual world I am somebody, unlike you TK.
>
> > > > Dvoretsky spends too much time on
> > > > positions worthy of correspondence chess and not OTB play. His subtle
> > > > moves might win in correspondence chess, but in OTB play are just
> > > > "Primus inter pares"--first among equals. He puts too much emphasis
> > > > on the "best" move when in fact any good move often wins.
>
> > > Having had a small part in producing a Dvoretsky book, I don't agree
> > > with your characterization.
>
> > Figures. Self interest and bias noted.
>
> Not bias; simply familiarity with the subject. A familiarity I
> suspect you lack.
No, bias and self interest. Noted.
>
> > > As for OTB vs. postal, I'm not aware that Dvoretsky has had much if
> > > any involvement with postal chess. In OTB chess, on the other hand, he
> > > has had great success as a player (he was once regarded as the
> > > strongest IM in the world) and even more as a trainer. His students
> > > have included Kasparov, Anand, Topalov, Bareev, Lautier, Van Wely and
> > > Yusupov. Four of his students went on to become Junior World
> > > Champion.
>
> > No thanks to him. If the pupil surpasses the master, then the master
> > must be weaker than the pupil.
>
> What utterly bizarre logic. By that standard, a high school teacher
> whose pupils all go on to become PhD's should be fired, because he is
> so obviously inferior.
Not fired, but automated perhaps. Home study anybody?
>
> > So how much real influence can an IM
> > have over a GM? Yes, I know some football coaches are inspirational
> > to their younger players, but the point being aside from inspiration
> > (which I would argue in a thinking game like chess is not that
> > important), Dvoresky cannot have been that important to his proteges--
> > they were natural talents.
>
> I dare say Kasparov, Anand, Topalov, Bareev, Lautier, Van Wely and
> Yusupov would eagerly contradict you.
>
> > > > Reasonable people can differ on this TK.
>
> > > True, but reasonable people are also civil. Tossing a gratuitous,
> > > belittling insult ("lame books") at a man of obviously superior
> > > attainments is the act of a crude yahoo, not a reasonable man.
>
> > You are not a reasonable man, arse whole.
>
> It's certain you are not a civil one. Is there a reverse Dale
> Carnegie course? I think you must have taken one.
This is Usenet bozo. Learn to like it or don't post here.
RL