More on chess variants
MorphyFischer
variant topic. Many people seemed to have been throwing stones at this
poor guy. And, some of the remarks by the "chess elite" were incorrect.
Here are some facts that I believe that chess players may not be aware
of at the present time:
The Gothic Chess Federation now has just under 20,000 paying members,
about 1/3rd the size of the entire United States Chess Federation. This
is a chess variant that is "stand alone" and does not play regular
chess at all.
About 45,000 Gothic Chess sets have been sold to some 55 countries.
As a programmer, you can WIN MONEY in Gothic Chess computer
tournaments, something UNHEARD OF in the USCF. There was a $10,000
first prize available in the 2004 World Computer Championship for
Gothic Chess, which was even reported on Chessville.com last year. No
entrance fee was required of the participants. There were 8 programs
from 4 different countries: Poland, USA, The Netherlands, and Germany.
http://www.chessville.com/GothicChess/ComputerWorldChampionships.htm
The longest tablebase checkmate for Gothic Chess, played on a board
that is 10 columns wide x 8 in height, is 268 moves for Queen + Pawn
vs. Queen.
http://www.gothicchess.com/javascript_endings.html
There are other languages with sites dedicated to Gothic Chess, such as
German:
http://www.gothicchess.at is the Austrian site.
http://www.gothicchess.de is the German site.
You have to admit, that 6'4 goddess of a tournament director has got
the goods!
http://www.gothicchess.com/alexis.html
You can even enter a tournament held 4 times a year to win a date with
her!
They have their own live site to play Gothic Chess:
http://www.gothicchess.com/gothic_chess_live.html
They have their own free program you can download:
http://www.gothicchess.com/vortex.zip
You can even sit back and watch "movies" of some great games:
http://www.gothicchess.com/animated.html
In short, this did not happen overnight. If you make a chess variant,
and it is good, it will get more popular. Don't let other people "throw
stones at" your creation. I have spoken to the inventor of Gothic Chess
many times, and he told me he was surprised at the extreme opposition
that seemed to follow him wherever he went. He never let it stop him,
and now there is a small empire behind Gothic Chess.
Don't be discouraged, chess variant creators!
Major Cat
>
> I was just reading through the 14 or so remarks posted under the chess
> variant topic. Many people seemed to have been throwing stones at this
> poor guy. And, some of the remarks by the "chess elite" were incorrect.
>
Major "snippage" (no pun intended)...
>
> In short, this did not happen overnight. If you make a chess variant,
> and it is good, it will get more popular. Don't let other people "throw
> stones at" your creation. I have spoken to the inventor of Gothic Chess
> many times, and he told me he was surprised at the extreme opposition
> that seemed to follow him wherever he went.
Now, _this_ may be worth its very
own thread. I mean, why _extreme_
opposition? What is hiding, if any-
thing, behind chess "orthodoxy"?
> He never let it stop him,
> and now there is a small empire behind Gothic Chess.
>
> Don't be discouraged, chess variant creators!
Major Cat
Taylor Kingston
MorphyFischer wrote:
> I have spoken to the inventor of Gothic Chess
Indeed? When did you do so last? According to Pritchard's
"Encyclopedia of Chess Variants" he died in 1942.
MorphyFischer
"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second,
it is violently opposed; and Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Maybe we can substitute "chess evolution" for "truth" in the
aforementione quote. On average, every 350 years chess does evolve.
Most recently, it was the universal acceptance of the en passant pawn
capture. Prior to that, it was castling. Tune back the clock further,
and the Queen and Bishop were being strengthened to their contemporary
status.
>From 2000-2002, Gothic Chess endured some of the ridicule; Stage 1
according to Schopenhauer.
Then the inventor published a fantastic paper on the topic of 80-square
chess variants in general, which made in into the International
Computer Games Association Journal:
http://www.GothicChess.com/80.pdf
Here was an unbiased view showcasing a mathematical rigor on how to
obtain the "value" of any piece on a board of any number of files, (f),
by any number of ranks, (r). From there, the history of 80-square
variants, starting with Bird in 1874, and Capablanca in 1924, are
shown, with an objective analysis of their configurations. Finally, and
improvement to Capablanca/Bird was presented.
So now Gothic Chess is at Stage 2: Violent opposition.
Why?
Perhaps because the status quo is being changed, and those who are
clinging to the old ways of chess don't want to see their game evolve.
It is too late for the elders to decide the matter. Every year, a
tournament is held where the winner gets a free college education. The
young are flocking to the game, and that is the key ingredient for
success. If only the subset of lionized Grandmasters embraced the game,
it would die.
People forget there are actually very few Grandmasters compared to the
entire population of players. It is not their blessing that seeds
success or dooms ventures to failure. It is what the vast majority of
the players want that generates revenue, and revenues drive
businesses,not opinions.
So here we are. We have chess in the throws of the "eggbeater
approach" to save their game, via "Chess960". Or, we have an elegant
approach which was advocated by Capablance, who had just one small
correction needed to make the game truly playable.
I think the chess population is more than acutely aware that if
Capablanca was "almost correct", and this correction is now in place
under the name Gothic Chess, that Gothic Chess will continue to expand
and take over the remaining territory.
MorphyFischer
Capablanca died in 1942, and he invented Capablanca Chess, altogether
different.
MorphyFischer
one in English:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_Chess
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_Chess
Furnished just to clarify that Capablanca was NOT the inventor of
Gothic Chess.
Taylor Kingston
Not according to Pritchard. The two new pieces have exactly the same
moves. Capablanca's game originally had a 10x10 board, but this was
soon changed to 8x10. As near as I can tell, Gothic Chess looks exactly
like Pritchard's description of the final version of Capablanca Chess,
even down to the castling rules. The only difference I see is in the
new pieces' names; Capa called them the Marshal (moves like rook or
knight) and the Chancellor (bishop + knight), whereas Gothic Chess
calls them chancellor and archbishop, respectively, IIRC.
Perhaps I have missed something. In what important ways does Gothic
Chess differ from Capablanca Chess?
Joost de Heer
> Capa called them the Marshal (moves like rook or
> knight) and the Chancellor (bishop + knight), whereas Gothic Chess
> calls them chancellor and archbishop, respectively, IIRC.
The usual fairy piece names for rook+knight is 'empress', and for
'bishop+knight' is princess (and to complete the list: queen+knight is called
'amazone'). The archbishop is a different piece: it's a reflecting bishop
allowed to 'bounce' only once (so an archbishop on e3 covers e.g. d2, c1, b2,
a3, d4, c5, b6, a7, b8, f4, g5, h6, g7, f8, f2, g1, h2)
Joost
--
Du hast mein Herz zerrissen, meine Seele geraubt
Das es so enden würde hätt` ich nie geglaubt [Aus der Ruinen -]
Ohne Rücksicht auf Verluste, hast Du meine Welt zerstört [L'Âme Immortelle]
Eine Welt, die vor kurzem nur uns beiden hat gehört
Toni Lassila
wrote:
>I think the chess population is more than acutely aware that if
>Capablanca was "almost correct", and this correction is now in place
>under the name Gothic Chess, that Gothic Chess will continue to expand
>and take over the remaining territory.
I don't think there's any fierce resistance towards Gothic Chess, I
find it quite intriguing myself. It seems however impossible to find
Gothic Chess sets anywhere, probably due to the game being a
commercial one. I can't see chess or any other board game that's been
around over a millennium replaced with one person's commercial
venture. What if I want to organize a Gothic Chess tournament? Do I
need to pay royalties to this guy? Can I make my own Gothic Chess sets
and market them or does that involve royalties as well?
As to other chess variants, well, if your chess variant clearly makes
no sense to anybody who looks at it for five minutes and all your
"improvements" consist of hacking off bits that were put there for
reasons you never understood properly, then you can expect that most
people will bypass your chess variant without giving it a second look.
MorphyFischer
http://www.GothicChess.com/80.pdf
Just so you know, Carrera Chess from 1617 also has the same piece
names/movements, as does Bird's Chess from 1874. Where they place the
pieces denotes the differences in the game.
Capablanca has 3 diagonal pieces in a row on the Queenside: Archbishop
on c1, Bishop on d1, Queen on e1.
All of them can take aim in the vicinity of the undefended i-pawn on
i7.
Gothic Chess cures all of this.
The Gothic Chess setup is rook, knight, bishop, queen, chancellor,
king, archbishop, bishop, knight, rook. This is very different.
All you have to do is go to http://www.gothicchess.com and you can see
for yourself.
MorphyFischer
HouseOfStaunton.com. In order to produce your own sets, all you need is
a license, just like you would if you wanted to sell anything else that
is patented intellectual property. The better way to go would be a
reseller. No license would be required, you just make a purchase of 10
or more sets at a discount, and keep whatever you make as a profit.
Gothic Chess tournaments are run by the Gothic Chess Federation.
Results are only recognized by those who are certified tournament
directors, which is not unlike the USCF itself.
UNLIKE the USCF, tournament directors get paid by the GCF. The average
remuneration is $3 per particiapnt. Run an event with 50 people, you
get paid $150. Run an event with 500 people, you get $1500. Not bad for
a weekend.
You made this remark: "I can't see chess or any other board game that's
been around over a millennium replaced with one person's commercial
venture."
But the game that was around 1000 years ago HAS BEEN COMPLETELY
REPLACED! You see, we are not playing Chatarunga, we are playing chess,
and this game is only 300 years old if you count when en passant was
incorporated into the rules.
Chess does evolve periodically, and it is doing so again. In 2001, when
only 5000 Gothic Chess sets were in existence, maybe what you said has
some weight. But as they near selling 50,000 sets, with a playing
population that will be half of the size of the USCF by the end of
2006, I don't think you can issue some of your remarks truthfully.
I am only a 1500 player in chess, and have never won prize money in a
USCF tournament. In Gothic Chess, I have taken home $1000 twice, and
$2500 once, out of the 9 events I have played in so far.
It's not that there is "less competition" -- it is that creativity
takes you farther in this game. I know I am not facing a 500 year old
opening like the Ruy Lopez, and I am really playing JUST my opponent,
not every great master he has studied.
Download this and check it out:
http://www.GothicChess.com/vortex.zip
You might actually like the game!
Toni Lassila
wrote:
>Gothic Chess sets are being produced by Hasbro games, as well as
>HouseOfStaunton.com. In order to produce your own sets, all you need is
>a license, just like you would if you wanted to sell anything else that
>is patented intellectual property. The better way to go would be a
>reseller. No license would be required, you just make a purchase of 10
>or more sets at a discount, and keep whatever you make as a profit.
So what you are saying I have the choice of a $10 plastic set or a
$500 mahogany set. I did once go through House of Staunton's web site
but there was nary a mention of Gothic Chess sets there. I still don't
think it's good for the popularity of Gothic Chess that you have to
buy into somebody's "intellectual property" in this way. Like I said,
I've never seen Gothic Chess sets on sale anywhere, Hasbro or
otherwise.
>But the game that was around 1000 years ago HAS BEEN COMPLETELY
>REPLACED! You see, we are not playing Chatarunga, we are playing chess,
>and this game is only 300 years old if you count when en passant was
>incorporated into the rules.
Yes, but it was never replaced with Chess(tm).
(Chess(tm) is a registered trademark of Hasbro Entertainment.)
>I am only a 1500 player in chess, and have never won prize money in a
>USCF tournament. In Gothic Chess, I have taken home $1000 twice, and
>$2500 once, out of the 9 events I have played in so far.
>
>It's not that there is "less competition" -- it is that creativity
>takes you farther in this game. I know I am not facing a 500 year old
>opening like the Ruy Lopez, and I am really playing JUST my opponent,
>not every great master he has studied.
No comment.
MorphyFischer
>
> So what you are saying I have the choice of a $10 plastic set or a
> $500 mahogany set. I did once go through House of Staunton's web site
> but there was nary a mention of Gothic Chess sets there. I still don't
> think it's good for the popularity of Gothic Chess that you have to
> buy into somebody's "intellectual property" in this way. Like I said,
> I've never seen Gothic Chess sets on sale anywhere, Hasbro or
> otherwise.
I think its a $8 Hasbro set, a $35 tournament edition Gothic Chess set,
or a $150 wooden set.
http://www.gothicchess.com/standard_tmnt_edition.html is the link for
the middle tier set.
> >But the game that was around 1000 years ago HAS BEEN COMPLETELY
> >REPLACED! You see, we are not playing Chatarunga, we are playing chess,
> >and this game is only 300 years old if you count when en passant was
> >incorporated into the rules.
>
> Yes, but it was never replaced with Chess(tm).
>
Your original comment implied that something with a strong following
was never replaced. I demonstrated this to be incorrect. Your follow-up
post has done nothing to advance your previous premise.
I wish you could have read the Gothic Chess Review magazine from
September 2004 which reported on the College Scholarship Tournament. A
complete accounting of this tournament is made each year, so that those
whose tuition is not paid out at once can follow the escrow holdings.
2700 players paid an average of about $150 to play in the event in
2004. Do the math. $400,000 dollars in, maybe $120,000 out = $280,000
profit for a 5-day tournament.
They are doing something good with the money, not just hoarding it. And
people who were involved with the organization during its early stages
are making tons of money now. Even new hire tournament directors in
certain regions make about $2000/month part time. Where else in the
world can you make $2000 for maybe 45-50 hours of work part time?
This would not be possible without the patent. Every Joe Schmoe in the
country would be hopping on the Gothic Chess bandwagon, detracting from
its growth as an entity, rather than expanding it.
The USCF nearly dried up and went away last year, amid the revelation
of tragic spending practices and poor realizations of changing
conditions that negatively impacted the Products & Services Division
(which was sold off after receipt of 10 sealed bid offers.)
Politics, politics, politics. The GCF is a for profit company run by
people with a financial stake in its balance sheet. if stuff don't
sell, they don't get paid, and that is why it is doing so well.
Rather than make tongue-in-cheek remarks like you had just issued, why
not at least admire quietly from the sidelines? Why make subtle jabs at
an organization that puts the player community first? Would you make
that same comment if you were the winner of a 4-year college education
for $100? Don't you think the mother of the 16 year old who won the
tournament last year is esctatic, knowing there will be no financial
burden on her son who will now go to college for the price he will pay
for a textbook?
I simply don't understand criticism of such success, when all of the
benefits are being redistributed to those who love and play the game.
Taylor Kingston
MorphyFischer wrote:
> There is a complete description of their differences here:
>
> http://www.GothicChess.com/80.pdf
The description of Capablanca Chess there differs from Pritchard's.
It appears to discuss an early version of the game, not the final
version.
> Just so you know, Carrera Chess from 1617 also has the same piece
> names/movements, as does Bird's Chess from 1874.
Yes, Pritchard mentions those.
> Where they place the
> pieces denotes the differences in the game.
True.
> Capablanca has 3 diagonal pieces in a row on the Queenside: Archbishop
> on c1, Bishop on d1, Queen on e1.
Perhaps at some point in the design process, but apparently not in
the final version. Pritchard gives the starting array as
Rook-Knight-Bishop-Chancellor (the R+N piece)-Queen-King-Archbishop
(B+N)-Bishop-Knight-Rook. There is even the score of a 1928 game played
from this array. He does say there were changes resulting "from
experimentation between Capablanca and Edward Lasker in which different
boards were considered. At one stage, for example, the new pieces were
set between Bs and Ns." It appears that the change from a 10x10 board
to 8x10 occurred about 1929.
> The Gothic Chess setup is rook, knight, bishop, queen, chancellor,
> king, archbishop, bishop, knight, rook. This is very different.
"Very" different? The only difference I see is that the positions of
the Chancellor and Queen are reversed.
Don't worry, it's no big deal to me, it's just that Mr. Trice's claim
to have "invented" the game seems perhaps a slight exaggeration.
Ralf Callenberg
> UNLIKE the USCF, tournament directors get paid by the GCF. The average
> remuneration is $3 per particiapnt. Run an event with 50 people, you
> get paid $150. Run an event with 500 people, you get $1500. Not bad for
> a weekend.
[...]
> 2700 players paid an average of about $150 to play in the event in
> 2004. Do the math. $400,000 dollars in, maybe $120,000 out = $280,000
> profit for a 5-day tournament.
[...]
> Even new hire tournament directors in
> certain regions make about $2000/month part time. Where else in the
> world can you make $2000 for maybe 45-50 hours of work part time?
Well, I get e-mail, where this is promised to me all the time. But, I
think I'll stay with the widow from Nigeria and her 15 Million dollars.
Sounds more promising.
[...]
> Would you make
> that same comment if you were the winner of a 4-year college education
> for $100? Don't you think the mother of the 16 year old who won the
> tournament last year is esctatic, knowing there will be no financial
> burden on her son who will now go to college for the price he will pay
> for a textbook?
>
> I simply don't understand criticism of such success, when all of the
> benefits are being redistributed to those who love and play the game.
>
[...]
> I am only a 1500 player in chess, and have never won prize money in a
> USCF tournament. In Gothic Chess, I have taken home $1000 twice, and
> $2500 once, out of the 9 events I have played in so far.
When reading all this, I come to the conclusion, that Gothic Chess seems
to have something of a lottery. Not the number of pieces and squares is
the main difference to chess, but the number of dollars involved.
Q: Why should I play Gothic Chess?
A: You can get a lot of money - as player and as organizer of
tournaments! And you have the unique chance to win a date with a 6'4
female tournament director!!
Yes, you are right. Chess is doomed.
Greetings,
Ralf
MorphyFischer
Ralf Callenberg wrote:
>
> Well, I get e-mail, where this is promised to me all the time. But, I
> think I'll stay with the widow from Nigeria and her 15 Million dollars.
> Sounds more promising.
>
I found a link on the old ".org" site.
http://www.gothicchess.org/ty.html
Shows a few tournaments taking place, also the 2004 Penthouse Pet of
the Year, Victoria Zdrok. Her appearance fee is $40,000 so Gothic Chess
must have some money, unlike your Nigerian mistress.
> When reading all this, I come to the conclusion, that Gothic Chess seems
> to have something of a lottery. Not the number of pieces and squares is
> the main difference to chess, but the number of dollars involved.
>
> Q: Why should I play Gothic Chess?
> A: You can get a lot of money - as player and as organizer of
> tournaments! And you have the unique chance to win a date with a 6'4
> female tournament director!!
>
Have you never played in a chess tournament? It sounds like you have
not. When you do, you pay an entrance fee. Gothic Chess tournaments are
always packed. More players, lower entrance fee, larger prizes.
Do you have such ill regard for the World Poker Tour as well? You can
win a million dollars, if you can afford the $10,000 buy in.
Gothic Chess tournaments are more like parties. Plenty of people,
plenty of fun, some babes to check out, and plenty of prizes.
But if you prefer to play regular chess and persist in the mundane, it
is your right to do so. I'll know you immediately when you show up at a
Gothic Chess event. You will be the person with the "deer in
headlights" look.
MorphyFischer
> Pritchard gives the starting > array as Rook-Knight->Bishop-Chancellor (the R+N >piece)-Queen-King->Archbishop
>(B+N)-Bishop-Knight-Rook.
But this IS very different! An undefended c-pawn can have very bad
consequences!
Separating the King and Queen in Gothic Chess was a significant
innovation, and the only pragmatic way to defend all of the pawns in
the starting configuration without altering too much of the
pre-existing chesslike structure.
I had a great sample game starting in this configuration with 1. Cc3 c6
showing how a "real mess" can come about quickly, now I can't seem to
find it.
Toni Lassila
wrote:
>I simply don't understand criticism of such success, when all of the
>benefits are being redistributed to those who love and play the game.
I don't think I ever criticized the Gothic Chess organization. I'm
just more interested in Gothic Chess the game than I am in Gothic
Chess the business venture. Maybe you guys will get it far enough some
day that I can find a Gothic Chess set in any store along with other
standard board games. Good luck.
Ralf Callenberg
> Gothic Chess tournaments are
> always packed. More players, lower entrance fee, larger prizes.
And there seem to be so many of them! I was on gothicchess.org, had a
look at the tournament list (always being updated) and there were -
there was *one* tournament... OK, could you point me to some sites in
the web with Gothic Chess tournaments, so that I can get an idea of how
many there are, how many players, entrance fees?
> But if you prefer to play regular chess and persist in the mundane, it
> is your right to do so.
You see, this is what I found remarkable - and you just undermined it
with your answer: it's not about the game itself, it's the things around
it. What you describe could be done with any game - backgammon,
checkers, Monopoly. It has nothing to do with 80 squares and additional
pieces. When describing the merits of this game you elaborated on the
money you can get, the babes, the fun tournaments. But hardly anything
about the game itself (yes there have been one or two lines by you, but
neglectible compared to the rest of your posts).
Greetings,
Ralf
Taylor Kingston
That gal with the Mick Jagger lips, Vampira nails, and 84-DD bra size
is enough to keep me away forever. Looks more like a freak show or porn
mag, rather than an intellectual pastime.
John Rowland
news:1133122862.0...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_Chess
It says that the rook-knight combination is less valuable than a queen...
surely that is not correct.
--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/7069/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes
MorphyFischer
" That gal with the Mick Jagger lips, Vampira nails, and 84-DD bra size
is enough to keep me away forever. Looks more like a freak show or porn
mag, rather than an intellectual pastime."
Taylor, I must agree with you there. One of our former webmasters was
using that page for a scrapbook of sorts. We convened a focus group,
and one of our early stage investors suggested we find someone with a
"Gothic look" to associate with the product. That girl was hand picked
by the guy with the deepest pockets, so through some of our meetings we
just had to nod our heads and smile when really we were sharing your
sentiments.
MorphyFischer
gothicchess.org, had a
look at the tournament list (always being updated) and there were -
there was *one* tournament... OK, could you point me to some sites in
the web with Gothic Chess tournaments, so that I can get an idea of how
many there are, how many players, entrance fees?"
Most of the tournaments are posted in the magazine we recieve, Gothic
Chess Review. At one point in time, they were posted on the web as
well, but that was discontinued and I am not sure when.
Here are some of the events from the old web page. I am not sure how
this copy/paste will look:
Event Location Participants
Foxwoods Open Mashantucket, CT 205
Northern Blitz Hull, Quebec 137
Philaldelphia Collegiate I Philadelphia, PA 65
Chesterfield Blitz Chesterfield, MO 163
Vermont Open Stratton Mountain, VT 185
Tornado Blitz Hattiesburg, MS 88
Jacob's Ladder Social Joshua Tree, CA 310
Tax Break Open Stratton Mountain, VT 83
Pioneer Action Open Norman, OK 73
Autoclub Special Warren, Michigan 115
Philly Collegiate II Philadelphia, PA 81
JMU Club Open Harrisonburg, VA 245
San Diego Open San Diego, CA 439
Austin Quarterfinals Austin, TX 188
Waukesha Memorial Hales Corners, WI 36
Rock County Blitz Janesville, WI 41
Southern States Scholastic Alexandria, VA 152
George Mason Hammers Open George Mason U 67
Kings Island Blitz 1 Kings Island, MO 61
U of T Open Knoxville, TN 155
JMU/Mason Team Tag Harrisonburg, VA 311
JMU summer Warmup cancelled 35
Tempe Time Crunch Tempe, AZ 45
Gothic Moguls of Blitz Loveland, CO 51
Charleston CC Intro to Gothic Charleston, SC 32
Valentine's Gothic Open Macon, GA 61
Titusville Social Titusville, FL 145
Trabuco Canyon Chancellor's Run Trabuco Canyon, CA 98
St Pats Party and Gothic Galore Quincy, MA 285
Blarney Stone Open New York, NY 113
Lucky Blitz Open Phoenix, AZ 69
Gothic Shots & Games Hicksville, NY 205
One More Go Boston, MA 110
Tampa Leprechaon Blitz Tampa Bay, FL 101
Tax Break Open Stratton Mountain, VT 70
New York Spring Open Poughkeepsie, NY 166
U of T Action Gothic 1 Knoxville, TN 214
High School Regionals Kansas City, MO 1280
"Minny" Open Minneapolis, MN 204
Southern States Regionals Atlanta, GA 516
Philadelphia Blitz Open Philadelphia, PA 64
Queen City Open Manchester, NH 55
Hawkeye Cornfest 1 Coralville, IA 49
Orlando Gothic Blitz Orlando, FL 238
NYC Championship New York, NY 316
San Diego Amateur Open San Diego, CA 199
Capital Open Harrisburg, PA 59
Arizona Championship Tempe, AZ 133
Colorado Springs Blitz Colorado Springs, CO 61
Iron Man Open Baltimore, MD 114
Foxwoods Open Mashantucket, CT 168
Raleigh Team Invitational Raleigh, NC 124
Titusville Pool Cleaning Titusville, FL 98
U of T Action Gothic 2 Knoxville, TN 173
Summer Breeze Blitz Chicago, IL 89
Let It Ride Mashantucket, CT 115
Chicago Fire & Rescue Open Chicago, IL 144
Southern Cal Blitz National City, CA 208
Berkeley Knights of Gothic Berkeley, CA 358
Joslyn Park Spectacular Santa Monica, CA 85
Charleston Novice Gothic Charleston, SC 44
Der Kancellor Munich, Germany 219
College Tuition Tournament Kansas City, MO 2974
Hawkeye Cornfest 2 Coralville, IA 63
Land of Lincoln Open Springfield, IL 94
Bucs Blitz & Beer Tampa Bay, FL 92
Jacob's Ladder Blitz Joshua Tree, CA 245
Queen City Action Manchester, NH 65
U of T Action Gothic 3 Knoxville, TN 266
San Diego Professional Core San Diego, CA 136
Minneapolis Blitz Minneapolis, MN 155
Dog Days Of Summer Open New York, NY 208
Foxwoods Action & Blitz Mashantucket, CT 359
Southern Cal Team Blitz National City, CA 160
Charleston Classic Gothic Charleston, SC 72
Berkeley Days of Gothic Berkeley, CA 200
High School Regionals Baltimore, MD 54
MorphyFischer
"It says that the rook-knight combination is less valuable than a
queen...
surely that is not correct."
When I first started playing, I thought as you did. The ability to hop
like a Knight then dodge the pawn land mines, while having the
attacking power of the Rook, must be worth a little more than a Queen.
As it turns out, the Knight/Rook components do not integrate as well as
the Bishop/Rook sliding combinations. So, until some of the pawns are
thinned out, you treat your chancellor functionally as a Rook.
If you want, post your question here:
http://www.gothicchess.com/discussion_board.html
and you can get some more feedback from those who play Gothic Chess all
the time on http://www.GothicChessLive.com
Or you can read about the complete description of the piece values
here:
John Rowland
> I would like to quote Arthur Schopenhauer:
>
> "All truth passes through three stages: First,
> it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed;
> and Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
But lies often go through those three steps as well.
MorphyFischer
"But lies often go through those three steps as well."
Can you show us some examples, and please explain to what, in
particular, you are refering to? Anyone can make vague generalizations.
Here is one:
You don't know what you are talking about.
See how easy it is to be generally dismissive without furnishing any
facts?
John Rowland
Maybe if I'd put a smiley after my comment my meaning would have been
clearer. My comment was about political propaganda in history, not about
Gothic Chess or about you.
Ralf Callenberg
> At one point in time, they were posted on the web as
> well, but that was discontinued and I am not sure when.
I hope, you are aware, that gothicchess.com is complete crap. Nearly no
information, strange pictures, nothing about tournaments, dead links
everywhere and the only entry to the news section is a report about a
hoax meeting between Fischer and Kasparov.
> Here are some of the events from the old web page. I am not sure how
> this copy/paste will look:
OK, thanks. But I have to say, it's a bit strange that there is nothing
publicly availabe over the net, as reports about events are always a
good promotion (I would say much better than some silly silicon boobs).
I see, there are only few tournaments, but they have quite a lot of
participants. What kind of pairings are you usually using? Swiss?
Greetings,
Ralf
MorphyFischer
"... gothicchess.com is complete crap. Nearly no information,"
You have to spend some time navigating the site.
One of the links at the top points to a wealth of information, such as:
http://www.gothicchess.com/resources.html
That is basically the hub of data you are looking for.
Some animated Gothic Chess movies of games (updated October 9, 2005
which is fairly recent):
http://www.gothicchess.com/animated.html
A javascript viewer of those same games, replayed one move at a time:
http://www.gothicchess.com/javascript_games.html
A verbose discussion of the value of the pieces:
http://www.gothicchess.com/piece_values.html
Opening traps:
http://www.gothicchess.com/traps.html
Strategic motiffs:
http://www.gothicchess.com/strategy.html
A mate in 268 and other difficult mates:
http://www.gothicchess.com/javascript_endings.html
The site is still being ported from the GothicChess.org domain, and the
live site is still being built. Some of the live games are available
for viewing with this beta version of the game browser:
http://www.gothicchesslive.com/players-games.php
As for promotion, Chessville.com will begin carrying articles on Gothic
Chess again, for starters.
That list of tournaments was just a subset of what was on the old site,
I don't think too many people were scrolling through it anyway. All of
the events are Swiss pairings, usually game/90 + 10 seconds,
non-accumulated time.
Ralf Callenberg
"... gothicchess.com is complete crap. Nearly no information,"
>
> You have to spend some time navigating the site.
>
> One of the links at the top points to a wealth of information, such as:
>
> http://www.gothicchess.com/resources.html
>
> That is basically the hub of data you are looking for.
No, actually, that was not I was looking for. I was looking for events,
to get an idea what is actually going on (not that I had a chance in
participating, just out of curiosity).
> That list of tournaments was just a subset of what was on the old site,
> I don't think too many people were scrolling through it anyway.
If there are no result tables, no reports, just some photos at most -
yes, I can imagine. On the web page of the Munich chess federation I can
see clearly, that the days after a tournament the number of hits peaks.
So, people obviously check out the results. Nowadays people take it for
granted, that the results are online within a few days. If the
tournament spans several days, players want to have the results of the
last and the pairing of the next round. If they are not there, they
start asking for it very soon.
But what about announcements for upcoming events?
> All of
> the events are Swiss pairings, usually game/90 + 10 seconds,
> non-accumulated time.
There are several tournaments with about 200 up to 500 participants,
which is really big. How many rounds are they playing?
Greetings,
Ralf
MorphyFischer
"No, actually, that was not I was looking for. I was looking for
events,
to get an idea what is actually going on (not that I had a chance in
participating, just out of curiosity). "
Well, you said there was "Nearly no information", so, I furnished links
to information. If you had said "There are no upcoming events listed",
I would simply have agreed with you. Events are published in the Gothic
Chess Review magazine for GCF members. It takes all of the staff to run
these events, so posting online and in the magazine seems redundant and
duplicate effort. The website is for those who have little or no
knowledge about Gothic Chess, and want to learn more. The magazine is
for the tournament enthusiasts.
Events with 200 people usually go 7 rounds, but there are at least 2
sections (Open and Reserve).
If there are 500 people in a single section, you would need 9 rounds.
The annual blitz championship, which is game/10+2, was a 14-round event
last year.
Ralf Callenberg
> Well, you said there was "Nearly no information", so, I furnished links
> to information. If you had said "There are no upcoming events listed",
> I would simply have agreed with you.
I meant general information about what is going on in the world of
Gothic Chess. Some, not all of the questions you have answered here:
how many tournaments are there, how big are they, what time limits are
used, what are the usual entrance fees, do you have an established
rating system, are there championships or just open tournaments, etc.
pp
> Events are published in the Gothic Chess Review magazine for GCF members
So, but what about non Members who just want to get an idea of what is
going on? You were so eager in holding up the merits of the game mostly
based on those fabulous tournaments taking place. And then they are not
presented to the outside at all?
Then: as I said, at least in Germany since the late 90s participants
themselves are used to and want to know right after or even during the
tournament, about the results. (I would be surprised if german chess
players would be special here. ) This can not be achieved with a
periodical magazine.
>. It takes all of the staff to run
> these events, so posting online and in the magazine seems redundant and
> duplicate effort.
Come on, usually all the organisation is done electronically anyway. Or
do you make the Swiss pairings by hand? I am sure you write the
announcement in some word processor, not on a typewriter, same with
reports about the tournament afterwards. Putting this onto a webpage is
peanuts. Any decent Swiss pairing program should have a HTML output for
tables and pairings, so one just has to upload it. Takes a minute. If
you have a tournament with 500 people, playing over several days and
have payed a substantial fee, the effort is comparable small to the
overall organisation. And if I think about the amount of money a
tournament director receives in Gothic Chess, he or she should be ready
to take this little extra effort.
>The website is for those who have little or no
> knowledge about Gothic Chess, and want to learn more. The magazine is
> for the tournament enthusiasts.
You see: usually tournaments are also regarded as some kind of
promotion, so people can see, that something is happening.
But anyway, it's your game. I just found it a bit strange.
Greetings,
Ralf
MorphyFischer
There are only 12 employees of the Gothic Chess Federation. The
tournament directors all over the world would be required to send in
results for html processing, and automation of this task is time
consuming and not a priority. It should not surprise you that there is
a market beyond the tournament playing population.
If you are so interested in tournament events, check out the German
sites which show some tournaments.
http://www.GothicChess.de and http://www.GothicChess.at (which is in
Austria.)
As mentioned before, the website is there for the average player. Most
of them prefer seeing animated games and being able to play through
javascript games rather than looking at crosstables.
Ralf Callenberg
> There are only 12 employees of the Gothic Chess Federation. The
> tournament directors all over the world would be required to send in
> results for html processing,
See, this is the disadvantage of a strongly centralized organization.
The local TDs could set up a page, and all Gothic Chess Federation had
to do was, setting a link to that page. Nearly no effort.
> If you are so interested in tournament events, check out the German
> sites which show some tournaments.
>
> http://www.GothicChess.de and http://www.GothicChess.at (which is in
> Austria.)
No. only on gothicchess.at they mention one tournament from January
2005, that's all.
> As mentioned before, the website is there for the average player. Most
> of them prefer seeing animated games and being able to play through
> javascript games rather than looking at crosstables.
>
You still didn't get the point. Yes, many people are not interested in
tournaments and the results. that's ok. But what about those who are? If
I would choose a new game, the first thing was, I would check out: where
can I actully play it? Are there local clubs or simply places where
people meet for playing, tournaments, etc. Isn't this obvious? So, when
I look at those sites, I don't get any hint, where I could actually find
some people to play.
You told us about the greatness of this game 90% based on those
fantastic tournaments, how much fun they are, how big they are, about
entrance fees and price money and so on. It was *you* who put the
emphasis on those tournaments in the first place. And for me the next
step after reading your posts was checking out what there is to see.
Well, nothing at all.
Greetings,
Ralf
David Richerby
> Gothic Chess sets are being produced by Hasbro games, as well as
> HouseOfStaunton.com. In order to produce your own sets, all you need
> is a license
No I don't. I'm not a lawyer but I really can't see that patent standing
up in court. Even if it did stand up, I could freely produce pieces and
boards for Capablanca chess and, if people want to use a different
starting arrangement on the board, that's entirely up to them.
> You made this remark: "I can't see chess or any other board game that's
> been around over a millennium replaced with one person's commercial
> venture."
>
> But the game that was around 1000 years ago HAS BEEN COMPLETELY
> REPLACED!
But not by one person's commercial venture.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Mentholated Cyber-Sword (TM):
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ it's like a razor-sharp blade that
exists only in your computer but
it's invigorating!
MorphyFischer
"No I don't. I'm not a lawyer but I really can't see that patent
standing
up in court. Even if it did stand up, I could freely produce pieces
and
boards for Capablanca chess and, if people want to use a different
starting arrangement on the board, that's entirely up to them."
I know of three cases where patent infringement against Gothic Chess
were won by the plaintiff. I am an attorney and will be retiring in a
few years. I have seen flame wars started by wannabe attorneys, so I
will not provoke one now.
Just know that the Department of Justice does not care what the average
person thinks about a patent being deserved or not. Once awarded, if
the infringer's invention or item is similar enough to the intellectual
property being presented, the court always sides with the inventor with
the patent.
That is why Bell Telephone exists and Grey Telephone does not exist.
If you want to sell sets you should get a license from the inventor. I
will make no further comments at this time and I suggest a change of
the subject.
Joost de Heer
> will make no further comments at this time and I suggest a change of
> the subject.
If someone releases 'Capablanca Chess', no one could complain, since you're
vehemently argumenting CS and GS are two totally different things....
Joost
--
Du hast mein Herz zerrissen, meine Seele geraubt
Das es so enden würde hätt` ich nie geglaubt [Aus der Ruinen -]
Ohne Rücksicht auf Verluste, hast Du meine Welt zerstört [L'Âme Immortelle]
Eine Welt, die vor kurzem nur uns beiden hat gehört
MorphyFischer
"If someone releases 'Capablanca Chess', no one could complain, since
you're
vehemently argumenting CS and GS are two totally different things...."
That's perfectly fine. They can sell all the Capablanca Chess sets they
want, will the Capablanca or Bird or Carrera rules. If they show the
setup of Gothic Chess, which is protected as a METHOD, not disimilar to
the way Hasbro has Battleship or Monopoly protected as a method of
playing a game, then it is infringement.
Think about it. Monopoly is such a popular game that more of their fake
currency is printed every year than the entire US Treasury prints of
real money! If Monopoly can't be duplicated, neither can Gothic Chess.
I suggest those who want to continue the armchair debate with the
patent contact the inventor, Ed Trice, at the
http://www.GothicChess.com website.
This is my last post on the subject of the patent which is not even
mine.
MorphyFischer
I apologize for having accidentally deleted your email and I cannot
respond. To answer the question, of all of the games I have played in
the last month, this was the one I thought was the most exciting:
http://www.gothicchesslive.com/javascript/game.php?gameid=371
It was played at the blitz time control of game in 10 with a 12 second
increment. I had the black pieces.
Ralf Callenberg
>
> http://www.gothicchesslive.com/javascript/game.php?gameid=371
>
> It was played at the blitz time control of game in 10 with a 12 second
> increment. I had the black pieces.
You are GothicInventor??
Anyway, I have to say, the level of play does not impress me much. Not
that I would claim I could beat any of the two players right now, as I
would have problems taking the new pieces into account, especially in
blitz. But, if I see that pieces are attacked by pawns and don't pull
back, pieces stand uncovered - and are not taken, that simple forks are
not seen or even seemingly unmotivated a covered pawn is taken - then
this is simply not a high level of game playing, it's rather
uncoordinated, there is no line. At least the mating is quite nicely
done. It's blitz, yes, but in chess at 10 min time I already start
playing quite reasonable. Personally, such a game would leave me
unsatisfied, even as a blitz game.
On the austrian site there were some games from a tournament. That
obviosly was beginners level on nearly all games I tried out. Rooks were
given away by moving the b-pawn so the bishop could take, and so on. And
that was a tournament with $500 price money.
This game here was a little bit better. But transfered to chess, I would
have said, two 1500s are having their fun.
Greetings,
Ralf
David Richerby
> David Richerby said:
>> No I don't. I'm not a lawyer but I really can't see that patent
>> standing up in court.
>
> wars started by wannabe attorneys, so I will not provoke one now.
Well, in that case, I certainly won't get into an argument about patents
with you.
> Just know that the Department of Justice does not care what the average
> person thinks about a patent being deserved or not.
That may well be the case for the 2% of the world's population lives
within the jurisdiction of the DoJ.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Disposable Unholy Gerbil (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a children's pet but it's also
a crime against nature and you never
have to clean it!
David Richerby
> Yes, but it was never replaced with Chess(tm).
>
> (Chess(tm) is a registered trademark of Hasbro Entertainment.)
Actually, Chess (R) is a registered trademark; Chess (TM) is just a
trademark.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Aquatic Homicidal Boss (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a middle manager but it wants to kill
you and it lives in the sea!
David Richerby
> Tony Lassila wrote:
>> MorphyFischer wrote:
>>> But the game that was around 1000 years ago HAS BEEN COMPLETELY
>>> chess, and this game is only 300 years old if you count when en
>>> passant was incorporated into the rules.
>>
>> Yes, but it was never replaced with Chess(tm).
>
> was never replaced.
Nonsense. The original comment was ``I can't see chess or any other board
game that's been around over a millennium replaced _with_one_person's_
_commercial_venture_.'' (My emphasis.)
> I demonstrated this to be incorrect.
No you didn't.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Evil Apple (TM): it's like a tasty
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ fruit but it's genuinely evil!
Ralf Callenberg
> Toni Lassila <tlas...@cc.hut.fi> wrote:
>
>>Yes, but it was never replaced with Chess(tm).
>>
>>(Chess(tm) is a registered trademark of Hasbro Entertainment.)
>
>
> Actually, Chess (R) is a registered trademark; Chess (TM) is just a
> trademark.
Wait! wait! I missed that one! Are you kidding? Chess is a trademark
held by a company?
Greetings,
Ralf
David Richerby
http://www.gothicchess.org/ty.html
on which can be found the photo
http://www.gothicchess.org/tournaments/gothic2k.jpg
captioned, ``Ed Trice is presented with the `Chancellor's Cup' for winning
the year 2000 United States Championship for Gothic Chess. [...] Ed
finished in clear first place ahead of over 600 participants, with $5000
to go with the title and the trophy.''
Well, no surprise that the game's inventor was, at that point, at least,
the strongest player but isn't it a good idea for the head of an organ-
ization to avoid taking part in that own organization's tournaments to
avoid any possibility of conflicts of interest? I'm sure nothing untoward
happened but it would be rather uncomfortable for the TD to have to make a
ruling involving somebody who is, in effect, his boss.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Permanent Indelible Tongs (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a pair of tongs but it can't be
erased and it'll be there for ever!
David Richerby
Chess is almost certainly a trademark held by somebody. But it's
important to remember that trademarks only apply within a particular
domain of business. So you could trademark Chess as, say, the name for a
perfume but not a board game with that name.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Edible Flammable Widget (TM): it's
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ like a thingy but it burns really
easily and you can eat it!
Ralf Callenberg
> So you could trademark Chess as, say, the name for a
> perfume but not a board game with that name.
Sure this I knew. But, if Hasbro has a trademark for it - what else than
a game should this be?
Greetings,
Ralf
Harold Buck
"MorphyFischer" <OmosLa...@aol.com> wrote:
> Think about it. Monopoly is such a popular game that more of their fake
> currency is printed every year than the entire US Treasury prints of
> real money!
That sounds like an urban legend. Do you have a source for this claim?
--Harold Buck
"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson
Nick
> MorphyFischer <OmosLa...@aol.com> wrote:
> > (snipped)
> > Just know that the Department of Justice does not care what
> > the average person thinks about a patent being deserved or not.
>
> That may well be the case for the 2% of the world's population
> lives within the jurisdiction of the DoJ.
Only "2% of the world's population"?
'DoJ' evidently denotes the US Department of Justice.
I have just checked the 'population clocks' at the official website
of the US Census Bureau. According to the latest figures, the
United States's population is slightly less than 300 million (slightly
less than 298 million, to be more exact), and the world's population
is slightly greater than 6482 million.
Hence, approximately 4.6 percent of the world's population
lives in the United States ('within the jurisdiction of the DoJ').
Has not David Richerby claimed to be a mathematician? :-)
"Voila le soleil d'Austerlitz!"
--Napoleon (2 December 1805)
--Nick
Harold Buck
"Nick" <nickbo...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Yeaaah. Does that change the essential point--that a very low percentage
of the world's population is subject to the US Dept. of Justice--at all?
MorphyFischer
" "MorphyFischer" <OmosLastTr...@aol.com> wrote:
> Think about it. Monopoly is such a popular game that more of their fake
> currency is printed every year than the entire US Treasury prints of
> real money!
That sounds like an urban legend. Do you have a source for this claim?"
--------------
If you ever take a tour of the Hasbro corporation in East Longmeadow,
MA, they mention this on the tour. There is a whole parade of palatte
trucks, running automatically in a procession from a plant room to a
larger assembly area, and they are piled from top to bottom with their
play money. I think each pallette had about 1000 pounds of paper on it,
and there were easily 10 of them a minute passing under the catwalk.
MorphyFischer
"You are GothicInventor??
Anyway, I have to say, the level of play does not impress me much. Not
that I would claim I could beat any of the two players right now, as I
would have problems taking the new pieces into account, especially in
blitz. But, if I see that pieces are attacked by pawns and don't pull
back, pieces stand uncovered - and are not taken, that simple forks are
not seen or even seemingly unmotivated a covered pawn is taken - then
this is simply not a high level of game playing, it's rather
uncoordinated, there is no line."
-----
Sorry, I had the colors wrong, I am not GothicInventor, I am
cartaphilus. I had white.
About your comments on the game play, you should know that tactics run
deep in Gothic Chess. The pawn COULD NOT TAKE the piece(s) that were en
prise!
A demonstration:
Open up a new brower window, go to this link:
http://www.gothicchesslive.com/javascript/game.php?gameid=371
Using the arrows, play through the first 9 moves by both players.
1.f3 Nh6 2.d4 d5 3.Nh3 g6 4.c3 Nc6 5.g3 Bf6 6.Bg2 Bf5 7.j3 Qd7 8.Af2
Cg7 9.g4 Ci6
You will see I play 9. g4 which has a pawn attacking a Bishop on f5,
and my opponent does not retreat the Bishop but instead plays 9...Ci6!?
Let's see what happens if I do take the Bishop:
10. gxf5? Bh4!!
Now, surely your chess ability allows you to see this is a skewer. The
Chancellor on i6 guards the Bishop on h4 which now has both the
Archbishop and Chancellor of the enemy aligned along the same diagonal.
Now, the average chess player would have the knee-jerk reaction to take
the Bishop, getting a Bishop pair for an Archbishop with:
11. Axh4 Cxh4 but here the black Chancellor really hits hard against
the weak i2 square, practically daring white to castle into a potential
attack. Can white castle then gain some tempi by striking against the
aggressively poised, and perhaps overextended black Chancellor? This is
G/10 no time to take on the creator of the game in a strategical battle
of wits. I considered 12. O-O Nxf5 or even 12...O-O-O!? and decided
both led to better play for black.
Having said that, after 10...Bh4!! you might be surprised that white
actually has a surprising counter.
11. Ng5!? Cxi2 12. Nxh7+!? Axh7 13. Bxh6+ ixh6 14. Ag4! hitting the
Chancellor on i2. Now the black kingside is in ruins and complex play
that is about your level is clearly at hand. I doubt you would fathom
the complications of 15. Qxf5! and the fact the black Archbishop does
better to play 15...Ah6+ rather than take the Queen.
By the way, my opponent defeated the Deep Thought computer program in
1989 (later it was Deep Blue which defeates Kasparov).
You should really have a little more respect before you cast stones at
a strong Gothic Chess player, such as myself.
Your sub-1500 evaluation of the position really speaks volumes.
Gothic Chess requires much more depth than most chess players can
appreciate, as you have demonstrated.
David Richerby
> But, if Hasbro has a trademark for it - what else than a game should
> this be?
Hasbro doesn't have a trademark on chess. It was a joke.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Technicolor Goldfish (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a fish but it's in realistic colour!
David Richerby
>> lives within the jurisdiction of the DoJ.
>
> Only "2% of the world's population"?
>
> lives in the United States ('within the jurisdiction of the DoJ').
>
> Has not David Richerby claimed to be a mathematician? :-)
It's well known that mathematicians can't do arithmetic. You should be
more, not less convinced, now! :-)
Dave.
--
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www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ razor-sharp blade but it'll break
the bank!
David Richerby
> MorphyFischer <OmosLa...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Think about it. Monopoly is such a popular game that more of their fake
>> currency is printed every year than the entire US Treasury prints of
>> real money!
>
> That sounds like an urban legend. Do you have a source for this claim?
Sounds believable to me and snopes.com doesn't say anything on the matter
so it's at least not a common urban legend. After all, there are fewer
economic implications of just printing more monopoly money than real
money.
Dave.
--
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Chess One
"David Richerby" <dav...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:l6q*yT...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
>> Has not David Richerby claimed to be a mathematician? :-)
>
> It's well known that mathematicians can't do arithmetic. You should be
> more, not less convinced, now! :-)
I was once astounded to listen to a recent nobel prize winner from U.
Chicago say on the radio, when asked a question about Mr. Greenspan,
'frankly, I have never understood him at all'.
When pressed for an explanation he said that the subject of micro- and
macro-economics were entirely dissimilar.
If you really want to confound a mathematician, ask them to explain the
following: 1 and 1 =
Ask them particularly about the 'and', but also the nature of the second "1"
:)
Philosophical Phil
Harold Buck
"Chess One" <inn...@verizon.net> wrote:
> If you really want to confound a mathematician, ask them to explain the
> following: 1 and 1 =
> Ask them particularly about the 'and', but also the nature of the second "1"
In Principia Mathematica, Bertrand Russell and Alfred North Whitehead
(or was it McFadden and Whitehead?) attempted to build up mathematics
from the most basic axioms. IIRC, they got around to proving "1+1=2"
somewhere near page 250. So, yes, if you talk to the right
mathematician, this could be a long "conversation."
David Richerby
> In Principia Mathematica, Bertrand Russell and Alfred North Whitehead
> (or was it McFadden and Whitehead?)
Russell and Whitehead.
> attempted to build up mathematics from the most basic axioms. IIRC, they
> got around to proving "1+1=2" somewhere near page 250.
And then Mr Goedel came along and rained all over that particular parade.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Psychotic Solar-Powered Cheese (TM):
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ it's like a lump of cheese but it
doesn't work in the dark and it wants
to kill you!
Harold Buck
David Richerby <dav...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Harold Buck <no_one...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > In Principia Mathematica, Bertrand Russell and Alfred North Whitehead
> > (or was it McFadden and Whitehead?)
>
> Russell and Whitehead.
Yeah, you missed something there. See: http://tinyurl.com/d38o5
>
> > attempted to build up mathematics from the most basic axioms. IIRC, they
> > got around to proving "1+1=2" somewhere near page 250.
>
> And then Mr Goedel came along and rained all over that particular parade.
Wasn't his work incomplete?
Ralf Callenberg
>
> About your comments on the game play, you should know that tactics run
> deep in Gothic Chess. The pawn COULD NOT TAKE the piece(s) that were en
> prise!
I have to admit, my judgment was done too quickly and was wrong. I
apologize.
Greetings,
Ralf
MorphyFischer
http://chessville.com/GothicChess/miniatures.htm
Some stunning combinations that end Gothic Chess games in a hurry, some
from very tranquil looking positions.
Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
MorphyFischer wrote:
> I am an attorney [...]
>
> Just know that the Department of Justice
> does not care what the average person thinks
> about a patent being deserved or not. Once awarded,
> if the infringer's invention or item is similar enough to
> the intellectual property being presented, the court
> always sides with the inventor with the patent.
>
> [...] and I suggest a change of the subject.
We had already virtual GM's on rgcm.
Now we have a virtual attorney (who can't even do
his homework to play one more convincingly).
Wlod
Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
MorphyFischer wrote:
>
> You should really have a little more respect before you cast stones at
> a strong Gothic Chess player, such as myself.
>
Another full of himself fruitcake case :-) :-)
Wlod
MorphyFischer
fairly sure we both made some miscues in this blitz game, but it is
very entertaining to say the least!
http://www.gothicchess.com/0000014.html
And to those who have emailed me, yes, I do ignore mindless trolls.
Nick
> I was just reading through the 14 or so remarks posted under the chess
> variant topic. Many people seemed to have been throwing stones at this
> poor guy. And, some of the remarks by the "chess elite" were incorrect.
>
> Here are some facts that I believe that chess players may not be aware
> of at the present time:
>
> The Gothic Chess Federation now has just under 20,000 paying members,
> about 1/3rd the size of the entire United States Chess Federation.
> This is a chess variant that is "stand alone" and does not play regular
> chess at all.
>
> http://www.GothicChess.com
>
> About 45,000 Gothic Chess sets have been sold to some 55 countries.
>
> As a programmer, you can WIN MONEY in Gothic Chess computer
> tournaments, something UNHEARD OF in the USCF. There was a $10,000
> first prize available in the 2004 World Computer Championship for
> Gothic Chess, which was even reported on Chessville.com last year. No
> entrance fee was required of the participants. There were 8 programs
> from 4 different countries: Poland, USA, The Netherlands, and Germany.
>
> http://www.chessville.com/GothicChess/ComputerWorldChampionships.htm
>
> The longest tablebase checkmate for Gothic Chess, played on a board
> that is 10 columns wide x 8 in height, is 268 moves for Queen + Pawn
> vs. Queen.
>
> http://www.gothicchess.com/javascript_endings.html
>
> There are other languages with sites dedicated to Gothic Chess, such as
> German:
>
> http://www.gothicchess.at is the Austrian site.
> http://www.gothicchess.de is the German site.
>
> You have to admit, that 6'4 goddess of a tournament director has got
> the goods!
>
> http://www.gothicchess.com/alexis.html
>
> You can even enter a tournament held 4 times a year to win a date with
> her!
>
> They have their own live site to play Gothic Chess:
>
> http://www.gothicchess.com/gothic_chess_live.html
>
> They have their own free program you can download:
>
> http://www.gothicchess.com/vortex.zip
>
> You can even sit back and watch "movies" of some great games:
>
> http://www.gothicchess.com/animated.html
>
> In short, this did not happen overnight. If you make a chess variant,
> and it is good, it will get more popular. Don't let other people "throw
> stones at" your creation. I have spoken to the inventor of Gothic Chess
> many times, and he told me he was surprised at the extreme opposition
> that seemed to follow him wherever he went. He never let it stop him,
> and now there is a small empire behind Gothic Chess.
I would prefer to play xiangqi (Chinese chess) or shogi (Japanese
chess) rather than 'Gothic Chess'. Many millions of people already
play xiangqi or shogi. And, if that's a motive for you, you can win
money by playing playing well enough in xiangqi or shogi tournaments.
--Nick
DanielS
MorphyFischer Wrote:
>
> Some stunning combinations that end Gothic Chess games in a hurry,
> some
> from very tranquil looking positions.
I find the game of Gothic Chess intriguing and would like to learn more
about it. However, I cant get by the fact that somebody owns it. I dont
want to have to ask for somebodys permission to play it. Having to buy
a board as opposed to making one is like asking permission.
--
DanielS
MorphyFischer
"I find the game of Gothic Chess intriguing and would like to learn
more
about it. However, I cant get by the fact that somebody owns it. I dont
want to have to ask for somebodys permission to play it. Having to buy
a board as opposed to making one is like asking permission."
If you walk around your kitchen, get into your car, or listen to music,
you are dealing with not just entire items owned by people, but PARTS
or COMPONENTS that are governed by patents and intellectual property.
If you buy something, someone is always getting paid.
I suppose if you wanted to fully support your statement, you could
always hunt for your food (don't want to support those new efficient
freon compressor patents in your refrigerator) milk your own cow
(DuPont makes a fraction of a cent on every plastic milk bottle) and
bathe in a nearby stream (God forbid you endorse the ShowerMassage(R)
which is someone's intellectual property.)
I am sure you are an excellent craftsman by now, doing everything
yourself instead of paying someone who has already done it for you.
DanielS
MorphyFischer Wrote:
> I suppose if you wanted to fully support your statement, you could
> always hunt for your food (don't want to support those new efficient
> freon compressor patents in your refrigerator) milk your own cow
> (DuPont makes a fraction of a cent on every plastic milk bottle) and
> bathe in a nearby stream (God forbid you endorse the ShowerMassage(R)
> which is someone's intellectual property.)
>
> I am sure you are an excellent craftsman by now, doing everything
> yourself instead of paying someone who has already done it for you.
I've never seen a chessboard compared to a refrigerator or a cow
before... but hey, whatever works!
Besides, thats not what I meant. Nobody in the world can tell me that I
cant play chess, nobody. But with gothic chess, there's one person who
can say "Hey, this is my game, I own it and I forbid you to play it."
Did you miss the part where I said that I'd like to learn more about
it? If the gothic chess world is filled with sarcasm like yours then I
dont want in.
--
DanielS
Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
> Having to buy
> a board as opposed to making one is like asking permission.
>
>
> --
> DanielS
I was about to buy a few sets, one for myself,
another for someone who had his birthday in
November, etc. The site looks standard, well
done. But there was nothing about how fast
can one expect the sets to be delivered. Thus
I called them. And sure enough the number
was "temporarly disconnected". I asked our
resident double moron MorphedPfitzer about it.
No answer. It figures. He reminds me of a guy
who had an attorney assigned to him by the
state for free. Since then, after getting out, the
guy claims to be an attorney himsef since now
he got a taste of law. His phone was temporarily
disconnected too.
Wlod
Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
> If the gothic chess world is filled with sarcasm
> like yours then I dont want in.
>
>
> --
> DanielS
Daniel, the guy is not sarcastic.
He is plainly stupid.
Wlod
John Rowland
news:DanielS...@chessbanter.com...
>
> I find the game of Gothic Chess intriguing and would
> like to learn more about it. However, I cant get by the
> fact that somebody owns it. I dont want to have to ask
> for somebodys permission to play it. Having to buy a
> board as opposed to making one is like asking permission.
No-one can stop you making a Gothic Chess board, or even selling one, so
long as you don't describe it as such.
--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/7069/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes
Ralf Callenberg
> Besides, thats not what I meant. Nobody in the world can tell me that I
> cant play chess, nobody. But with gothic chess, there's one person who
> can say "Hey, this is my game, I own it and I forbid you to play it."
There is a huge number of games played around the world, which are
copyrighted, and nobody sees a problem whith that. Monopoly is played
since 70 years or so all over the world by generations of players,
although it is protected and technically owned by someone. Do you think,
that anybody in the past decades seriously criticized Monopoly, because
somebody would come up and forbid to play it?
Of course, nobody can deny you playing it. What you may not do is,
organize plublic tournaments without the consent of the owner or use the
name Gothic Chess in public. But what you do in your house can nobody
control. You want to play it? Buy a set. You can not get one from Gothic
Chess for any reason? Go and buy any set with 10x8 squares and two
different extra pieces (best would be Capablanca chess) and just put the
pieces on the board the way Gothic Chess is played. You may even build
your own set, if you like. Nobody has the right to deny you this.
I personally find it a bit strange that a patent and a business can be
based on some minor repositioning of pieces. But I can hardly see a
fundamental problem with this game, just because it's commercial.
Greetings,
Ralf
MorphyFischer
It is on this page:
http://www.GothicChess.com/news.html
The overall "understanding" of patents from the posts here are widely
off base. Patents do not forbid an end user from playing a game. Who
cares about that?
Patents are to keep other companies from selling a patented item, or
from giving it away for free.
Nobody "audits" an individual user. It is at the corporate level where
big business is concerned.
MorphyFischer
repeated position. Well, just today, "BlondePawn" repeated it in 13
moves against "GothicInventor", which has to be a record of some kind!
Here is that game:
http://www.gothicchesslive.com/javascript/game.php?gameid=387
Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
Ralf Callenberg wrote:
> a tournament with $500 price money.
Monopoly money.
Wlod
Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
> I know of three cases where patent infringement
> against Gothic Chess were won by the plaintiff.
Oh, yes? Identify them.
> That is why Bell Telephone exists and Grey Telephone does not exist.
He-he, words of wisdom (they are not). You're so full of yourself.
Wlod
David Richerby
> David Richerby <dav...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Harold Buck <no_one...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> > In Principia Mathematica, Bertrand Russell and Alfred North Whitehead
>> > (or was it McFadden and Whitehead?)
>>
>> Russell and Whitehead.
>
> Yeah, you missed something there. See: http://tinyurl.com/d38o5
Aaah. That's why I'd never heard of this McFadden person.
>>> attempted to build up mathematics from the most basic axioms. IIRC,
>>> they got around to proving "1+1=2" somewhere near page 250.
>>
>> And then Mr Goedel came along and rained all over that particular
>> parade.
>
> Wasn't his work incomplete?
His work was both complete and incomplete.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GoedelsCompletenessTheorem.html
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/GoedelsIncompletenessTheorem.html
Dave.
--
David Richerby Gigantic Transparent Chair (TM):
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ it's like a chair but you can see
right through it and it's huge!
David Richerby
You're free to make your own board and even pieces -- after all, you could
perfectly well play Capablanca chess with this equipment. You're also
free to play Gothic chess with the equipment. All you're forbidden from
doing is engaging in any commercial activity pertaining to Gothic chess
without permission. (Within the US.)
Dave.
--
David Richerby Addictive Evil Chair (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a chair but it's genuinely evil and
you can never put it down!
Ralf Callenberg
> All you're forbidden from
> doing is engaging in any commercial activity pertaining to Gothic chess
> without permission.
Beware: whether your activity is commercial or non-coomercial is not
relevant.
Greetings,
Ralf
David Richerby
If you want to believe that this patent stops you arranging a few pieces
of plastic on an extended chess board in any way you please then you're
welcome to that belief.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Broken Mexi-Dictator (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a totalitarian leader that comes from
Mexico but it doesn't work!
Ralf Callenberg
>>Beware: whether your activity is commercial or non-coomercial is not
>>relevant.
>
>
> If you want to believe that this patent stops you arranging a few pieces
> of plastic on an extended chess board in any way you please then you're
> welcome to that belief.
You obviously didn't understand what I was saying. Mine was a general
remark about patents and copyrights. One simply can not rely on the fact
that an activitiy is non-commercial. Example: if you sell something
which is patented by someone without his consent, this is illegal - of
course. But it is also illegal if you give it away publicly for free as
an act of charity and without any commercial interests. It makes a
difference whether you do someting in public or in private, amongst your
family or friends. But it does not make a difference whether you do it
commercially or not.
Greetings,
Ralf
Harold Buck
David Richerby <dav...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Ralf Callenberg <ralf.ca...@web.de> wrote:
> > David Richerby wrote:
> >> All you're forbidden from doing is engaging in any commercial activity
> >> pertaining to Gothic chess without permission.
> >
> > Beware: whether your activity is commercial or non-coomercial is not
> > relevant.
>
> If you want to believe that this patent stops you arranging a few pieces
> of plastic on an extended chess board in any way you please then you're
> welcome to that belief.
In fact, I'm sure you could sell an 8x10 board with standard chess
pieces and 2 or 3 "other" pieces and tell people "Make up the moves for
these pieces and arrange them how you want on the back row! Here are
some ideas for how the pieces could move! Here are some ideas for where
the pieces could go!" and as long as you don't specifically mention the
Gothic Chess setup and piece movements together you'd be fine.
David Richerby
>> of plastic on an extended chess board in any way you please then you're
>> welcome to that belief.
>
> In fact, I'm sure you could sell an 8x10 board with standard chess
> pieces and 2 or 3 "other" pieces and tell people "Make up the moves for
> these pieces and arrange them how you want on the back row! Here are
> some ideas for how the pieces could move! Here are some ideas for where
> the pieces could go!" and as long as you don't specifically mention the
> Gothic Chess setup and piece movements together you'd be fine.
You can do much more than that. Capablanca chess is identical to Gothic
chess apart from the initial arrangement of the pieces. So you can make
and sell Capablanca chess sets which anyone who wants to can use to play
Gothic chess, too, though you're not allowed to tell them this in the US.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Mentholated Natural Newspaper (TM):
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ it's like a daily broadsheet but it's
completely natural and invigorating!
David Richerby
>>> Beware: whether your activity is commercial or non-coomercial is not
>>> relevant.
>>
>> If you want to believe that this patent stops you arranging a few pieces
>> of plastic on an extended chess board in any way you please then you're
>> welcome to that belief.
>
> You obviously didn't understand what I was saying. Mine was a general
> remark about patents and copyrights.
Sorry, I thought you were taking a rather more extreme stance than you
actually are.
> One simply can not rely on the fact that an activitiy is non-commercial.
> [...] It makes a difference whether you do someting in public or in
> private, amongst your family or friends.
True.
> But it does not make a difference whether you do it commercially or not.
That's not quite true: I'm pretty sure I'm not allowed to sell Gothic
chess sets privately to my friends and family.
Dave.
--
David Richerby Flammable Incredible Dish (TM):
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ it's like a fine ceramic dish but
it'll blow your mind and it burns
really easily!
MorphyFischer
own pieces with 3D cad software, then pay about $100000 to have the
cavity injection molding process started, then have to pay about $50000
for your first 10000 complete set of pieces, then maybe another 30000
for the boards, when all you have to do is sign up to be a distributor
and you can make a 50% margin on your sales with $0 invested.
But keep going, your posts are very entertaining.
Nick
> I am just curious who would go through all the trouble to design their
> own pieces with 3D cad software, then pay about $100000 to have the
> cavity injection molding process started, then have to pay about $50000
> for your first 10000 complete set of pieces, then maybe another 30000
> for the boards, when all you have to do is sign up to be a distributor
> and you can make a 50% margin on your sales with $0 invested.
Has anyone written in this thread about one's aim to develop a chess
variant as a commercial venture and a rival to 'Gothic Chess'?
> But keep going, your posts are very entertaining.
There's a chess variant, known as 'Smess', 'Take the Brain', or
"All the King's Men", that might be compared to the relations
among writers in rec.games.chess.misc (or .politics).
It's played on a 7 by 7 board, and each player has a force
of 1 Brain, 4 Numskulls, and 7 Ninnies. The numbers of
Brains, Numskulls, and Ninnies seem to be more or less
in proportion to the numbers of such writers in the Usenet
chess newsgroups. :-)
--Nick
MorphyFischer
this
year at the http://www.GothicChessLive.com website. Everyone is invited
to
watch, and if you have written a Gothic Chess program, participation is
free! We have one candidate from Iran this year, so we can neither
charge
an entrance fee nor award any prize money in case this person enters
and/or wins (USA citizens cannot transaction any money with Cuba, Iran,
and a few other countries.) All participants will be mentioned in an
article appearing in the June 2006 issue of the International Computer
Games Association Journal.
The 2004 event was reported on at the Chessville.com website:
http://www.chessville.com/GothicChess/ComputerWorldChampionships.htm
For rules and registration, as well as playing times and login
information, visit:
http://s13.invisionfree.com/Gothic_Chess_Forum/index.php?act=SC&c=5
Come watch the best programs play for the title of the world's best!
MorphyFischer
Gothic Chess program, participation is free! We have one candidate from
Iran this year, so we can neither charge an entrance fee nor award any
MorphyFischer
http://www.gothicchesslive.com/javascript/game.php?gameid=371
Cartaphilus - GothicInventor
GothicChessLive.com
Wed Nov 30 00:46:57 CST 2005
1.f3 Nh6 2.d4 d5 3.Nh3 g6 4.c3 Nc6 5.g3 Bf6 6.Bg2 Bf5 7.j3 Qd7 8.Af2
Cg7 9.g4 Ci6 10.g5 Cxi2 11.Bf4 Bxg5 12.Nxg5 O-O-O 13.Qd2 Cj4 14.Ai5 Ch5
15.Ri1 f6 16.Ag3 Cj4 17.Nxh7 Axh7 18.Rxi7 g5 19.Rxh7 Bxh7 20.Bxc7 Qj1+
21.Kf2 Ng4+ 22.fxg4 Cxg4+ 23.Kf3 Be4+ 24.Axe4 dxe4#
MorphyFischer
http://www.gothicchesslive.com/javascript/game.php?gameid=395
Caissus - Mattolin
GothicChessLive.com
Fri Dec 09 10:28:21 CST 2005
1.d4 d5 2.Nh3 Nh6 3.g3 i6 4.Bg2 Bi7 5.f3 Nc6 6.Af2 f6 7.O-O Af7 8.e4
dxe4 9.fxe4 O-O 10.Nc3 Cg8 11.a3 g5 12.Rf1 Cg7 13.Nd5 Be6 14.c4 Bxd5
15.cxd5 Nb8 16.Be3 Nd7 17.Rc1 Rc8 18.Cd3 Nf8 19.Cb4 Rb8 20.Qc2 Ah5
21.Qxc7 Qxc7 22.Rxc7 Ng4 23.Ag1 Ng6 24.Rxb7 Rxb7 25.Cxb7 i5 26.Bd2 Ci6
27.d6 exd6 28.Cxd6 i4 29.Nf2 Nxf2 30.Axf2 Ni5 31.Ah1 Cj6 32.Ai3 Axi3
33.jxi3 Ng4 34.Cf5 Ch5 35.Rh1 j5 36.Bf3 Ci5 37.Cg7+ Kj8 38.Bxg4 Cxg4
39.Ch5 Cf2 40.Cxj5+ Ki8 41.Bc3 Cg2+ 42.Kj1 Cf2 43.Cj2 h5 44.Ki1 Cg2+
45.Kj1 Rh6 46.e5 Rj6 47.Cxj6+ Bxj6 48.e6 Cf2 49.Ki1 Ce2 50.d5 Bxg3
51.hxg3 Cxg3 52.Re1 Cg2+ 53.Kj2 h4 54.e7 hxi3+ 55.Kj1 Ch2+ 56.Ki1 Cg2+
57.Kj1 Ch2+ 58.Ki1 Cg2+ 59.Kj1
Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod)
> I was just reading through the 14 or so remarks posted under the chess
> variant topic.
What is the difference between Capablanca's variant
and the Gothic variant? Is it just the intial position?
Yes? No?
>
> You can even enter a tournament held 4 times a year
> to win a date with her!
What do you mean by "date"? Could you be more
specific?
> They have their own free program you can download:
>
> http://www.gothicchess.com/vortex.zip
What computers is it going to work on?
******
Wlod
MorphyFischer
Carrera Chess, Bird's Chess, Capablanca Chess, and Gothic Chess are all
very similar with only different setups distinguishing them.
http://www.GothicChess.com/80.pdf goes into more detail, showing how
varying the setups even slightly can have drastic consequences in the
play of the game.
Every season, there is a tournament where the winner gets to go on a
date with Alexis, the supermodel/tournament director. She flies over
200,000 miles per year so she gets amazing flight deals and perks, so
wherever the winner is, she goes to them.
http://www.gothicchess.com/alexis_pictures.html
...a link with some picts of the summer tournament.
fizzy
Um, no. There are LOT of variants that have different pieces,
different winning conditions, different move sequences, different board
geometries, etc. It is true, however, that Capablanca's Chess, Gothic
Chess, Carrera's Chess, Bird Chess, Grotesque Chess, and Ladorean Chess
differ only in the initial array. Of these, I personally think that
Grotesque Chess and Ladorean Chess are the best games. I'm also
surprised that the inventor of Gothic Chess was able to get a patent
for a game that differs from existing work in a very small way, but
such is the case.
pulgao
wrote:
>Every season, there is a tournament where the winner gets to go on a
>date with Alexis, the supermodel/tournament director. She flies over
>200,000 miles per year
The fact that she's wearing those *shoes* without a parachute is
impressive as hell...
-- Steve Lopez
MorphyFischer
You should see her with the 7 inch heels on, which makes her 7'2!
pulgao
wrote:
>You should see her with the 7 inch heels on, which makes her 7'2!
And when the Chronos beeps as her opponent's flag falls, she says,
"Yoooouuu raaaaaaaaaaaaang?"
-- Steve Lopez
MorphyFischer
Rob
I recently began playing Gothic Chess online. GC is confusing at first.
It is not difficut to learn if you know how to play regular chess.
I did find that after playing several games of Gc the regular chess
"felt" constricted. I wouldn't pooh-pooh it offhand without playing a
few games first.
Rob
Major Cat
>
> I recently began playing Gothic Chess online. GC is confusing at first.
> It is not difficut to learn if you know how to play regular chess.
>
> I did find that after playing several games of Gc the regular chess
> "felt" constricted.
Some hobbyists who ventured into Chess960 (or one or more of its
subsets) territory appear to have "felt" the same.
> I wouldn't pooh-pooh it offhand without playing a
> few games first.
> Rob
Regards,
Major Cat
Rob
Major Cat wrote:
> Rob wrote:
> >
> > I recently began playing Gothic Chess online. GC is confusing at first.
> > It is not difficut to learn if you know how to play regular chess.
> >
> > I did find that after playing several games of Gc the regular chess
> > "felt" constricted.
>
> Some hobbyists who ventured into Chess960 (or one or more of its
> subsets) territory appear to have "felt" the same.
I have never played chess 960/ FRC. I am wondering if anyone has played
both variants and could give afair comparison between them
Rob