Computerchess Misc (9)
Rolf Tueschen
remember what a superb player Bobby really is.
Let me demonstrate the outstanding class of his chessic judgement.
On March 22, 1964 Bobby gave the first of two simuls in Chicago against
71 players. Afterwards he said that the following game was the best
played against him there.
Fischer,R - Diebert,G [C19]
Chicago sim 71, 22.03.1964
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Ne7 7.a4 Nbc6 8.Nf3
Bd7 9.Bd3 Qa5 10.Qd2 c4 11.Be2 b5 12.Ba3 bxa4 13.0-0 0-0 14.Nh4 f6
15.exf6 Rxf6 16.f4 Nf5 17.Nf3 Rh6 18.Rab1
Now look at this. IM John Donaldson (?) gave an interesting comment. At
first he gave a question mark for this move and he stated that this was
a typical simul mistake. Otherwise Fischer would have found the
following line already mentioned at the time by Verber:
[18.g4! Nh4 19.g5 Nxf3+ 20.Rxf3 Rh4 21.Qe1 Rg4+ 22.Kh1 e5 23.dxe5 Nxe5
24.fxe5 Rxg5 25.Qf2 +- Verber
But we had to wait 25 years to find out with FRITZ that a sensational
refutation was existing:
18....Rg6 and now of course
19.Ne5!?
but then the thematic :) (I can't help the arrogance.)
19... Nfxd4!! with 20.Nxg6 of course.
Then the _cruel_
20... Qxc3!! Case closed!]
In the game Fischer also lost after 18.Rab1 Qd8 19.g3 Qe8 and so on.
You get the idea. Fortunately we have tools like the best micros who
prevent us from talking too much nonsense. "We" are able to find the
moves of masterstrength.
Any opinions? Chess 99% only tactics??
Komputer Korner
the French Defence. He never really solved his problems against it and
was lucky that the top players of his time were not French experts.
Botvinnik had retired and Korchnoi and Fischer never did play a
match. Probably he would have switched to queenside openings if that
had been the case as he indeed did do for some games against Spassky.
Knut Neven 2300 Can. has had great success against even GMs playing a
French/Grunfeld repertoire as Black. Opening choices seem to indeed
make a difference and it may be that the French/Grunfeld is the most
rock solid of them all.
--
--
Komputer Korner
The inkompetent komputer
To send email take the 1 out of my address. My email address is
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Rolf Tueschen wrote in message <79v5dg$p0t$1...@news04.btx.dtag.de>...
mclane
>As there is actual agitation about pro and con Bobby Fischer we should
>remember what a superb player Bobby really is.
he may be a genius in chess, but he is crazy. he believes in strange
theories about the jews controlling the world. he seems to be
antisemitic. didn't you read dautov's funny book about him ?
also seiravan has written much about him. although i don't understand
your critics against seiravan. IMO seiravan likes bobby, and does not
follow the guys beeing against him, talking in his book.
best wishes
Rolf Tueschen
<4LGw2.5044$134....@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>:
>Looking at defences to e4, Bobby Fischer had the most trouble against
>the French Defence. He never really solved his problems against it and
>was lucky that the top players of his time were not French experts.
>Botvinnik had retired and Korchnoi and Fischer never did play a
>match. Probably he would have switched to queenside openings if that
>had been the case as he indeed did do for some games against Spassky.
>Knut Neven 2300 Can. has had great success against even GMs playing a
>French/Grunfeld repertoire as Black. Opening choices seem to indeed
>make a difference and it may be that the French/Grunfeld is the most
>rock solid of them all.
I know I can expect high levels from your side. You are always
interested when it comes to statistical truths. Here's one to that
topic.
I wouldn't primitively take the names of the openings or some 5 opening
moves as relevant. You know quite well that the middle game is deciding.
Now take this from statistics.
I once checked some games with the old middlegame program from ChessBase
(DOS!). You remember?
And look what I've found. Fischer lost with the _Whites_ 5 or 6 games
with the following pawn constellation in the center lines:
Pawns on e5 | e6 and White has no d Pawn. You know what I mean? Perhaps
the French and similar have the tendency to have the P on e5 which is
vulnerable by definition. Or even in other words. The dynamics is too
little with such a dominant "weakness".
You know well that e.g. Fischer played the GRUENFELD himself as Black
just because the high dynamics of the Pawns on Queens. Let me wash it up
all in one. Take the BENONI. Its main weakness are the low-dynamic pawn
islands. White has the brutal e4-e5 most of the time. (What do you
think, shouldn't we talk like this better than about a name? Because
certain characteristics appear in different openings.)
Could you discuss that? Or someone out there?
Thanks.
Mig
<kor...@netcom.ca> wrote:
>Looking at defences to e4, Bobby Fischer had the most trouble against
>the French Defence. He never really solved his problems against it and
>was lucky that the top players of his time were not French experts.
>Botvinnik had retired and Korchnoi and Fischer never did play a
>match. Probably he would have switched to queenside openings if that
>had been the case as he indeed did do for some games against Spassky.
>Knut Neven 2300 Can. has had great success against even GMs playing a
>French/Grunfeld repertoire as Black. Opening choices seem to indeed
>make a difference and it may be that the French/Grunfeld is the most
>rock solid of them all.
I'll dig my old post about this up later, but I seem to remember that
the general conception of Fischer having an inordinate amount of
trouble against the French as being false, statistically anyway. I
don't think his performance rating dropped at all against it. He had a
few famous losses, and Fischer losing with white is going to be made
into a big deal, but it's a bit exaggerated. I also remember that it
was only once or twice in tournament games that he avoided his Winawer
to play the KIA.
Okay, just checked. Fischer scored 75% with white after 1.e4 e6 2.d4
d5. That's around 30 tournament games. He scored 75% in his favorite
Ruy Lopez and 78% in the Sicilian. Several of his losses against the
French were well publicized. (Loss to Mednis, an ugly loss to R.
Byrne, the infamous Kovacevic game) He WAS completely clueless in the
opening when he lost to WC Petrosian (speaking of French experts he
played many games against) in 1962 and quickly had a lost position,
but against French specialist Uhlmann he was crushing him until move
20 and even after slipping up only lost much later when he refused the
obvious draw and pressed on. (And he scored 3/4 against Petrosian in
later French discussions, including one blitz game.)
With only 30 games just another pair of wins would make the difference
from his 78% effectiveness with white negligible. And it's not as if
70% is "trouble"!! Spassky's stats, taken up to 1972, show him scoring
78% against the French (only 22 games) and "only" 67% with the Ruy, of
which he was a renown expert. (Of course Spassky was facing stronger
players than Fischer on the average, his stats don't benefit from
crushing many weaker fields in his early years as do Fischer's.
Compare the national championship fields of the two!) Nobody goes
around saying Spassky had "trouble" with the Ruy Lopez.
Fischer admitted to not fully understanding the French at some point
early on, but his results don't reflect any special practical
difficulties. I highly doubt he would have given up 1.e4 just to avoid
it, it's more likely his foes would have been forced to give up the
French!
Saludos, Mig
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Michael "Mig" Greengard * Remove SBLOCK to e-mail me *
Greg Kennedy
>>the French Defence.
>Okay, just checked. Fischer scored 75% with white after 1.e4 e6 2.d4
>d5. That's around 30 tournament games. He scored 75% in his favorite
>Ruy Lopez and 78% in the Sicilian.
>Fischer admitted to not fully understanding the French at some point
>early on, but his results don't reflect any special practical
>difficulties. I highly doubt he would have given up 1.e4 just to avoid
>it, it's more likely his foes would have been forced to give up the
>French!
Bwaaahhaaahhaaaa! Give up the French! Haaahaha! And
with Fischer ONLY scoring 75% against it! Yes, of course!
Switch to the Ruy Lopez allowing the Exchange variation and
lose every other game- very good idea! Bwaahhhaaaha! Or
the Sickcilian with 78%! I think not!
- Greg Kennedy
Albert Silver
"Komputer Korner" <kor...@netcom.ca> wrote:
> Looking at defences to e4, Bobby Fischer had the most trouble against
> was lucky that the top players of his time were not French experts.
> Botvinnik had retired and Korchnoi and Fischer never did play a
> match. Probably he would have switched to queenside openings if that
> had been the case as he indeed did do for some games against Spassky.
> Knut Neven 2300 Can. has had great success against even GMs playing a
> French/Grunfeld repertoire as Black. Opening choices seem to indeed
> make a difference and it may be that the French/Grunfeld is the most
> rock solid of them all.
>
It's true that he never really seemed to kill it as he would have liked,
considering that he thought it dubious due to Black's space deficiency, but
then again he never played all that many games against it either, so it's a
very hard call to make. I don't see his switch to 1.d4 against Spassky as
relevant evidence, since I think the reasons were other, after all, Spassky
was a Ruy Lopez expert. French/Grunfeld is a favourite of other players as
well, but I think that it's more a question of style than anything else.
Albert Silver
> --
> --
> Komputer Korner
> The inkompetent komputer
>
> To send email take the 1 out of my address. My email address is
> kor...@netcom.ca but take the 1 out before sending the email.
> Rolf Tueschen wrote in message <79v5dg$p0t$1...@news04.btx.dtag.de>...
> >As there is actual agitation about pro and con Bobby Fischer we
> should
> >remember what a superb player Bobby really is.
> >
> >Let me demonstrate the outstanding class of his chessic judgement.
> >On March 22, 1964 Bobby gave the first of two simuls in Chicago
> against
> >71 players. Afterwards he said that the following game was the best
> >played against him there.
> >
> >Fischer,R - Diebert,G [C19]
> >Chicago sim 71, 22.03.1964
> >
> >1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Ne7 7.a4 Nbc6
> 8.Nf3
> >Bd7 9.Bd3 Qa5 10.Qd2 c4 11.Be2 b5 12.Ba3 bxa4 13.0-0 0-0 14.Nh4 f6
> >15.exf6 Rxf6 16.f4 Nf5 17.Nf3 Rh6 18.Rab1
>
>
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