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Aegon Results

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Howard Exner

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Apr 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/24/97
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5 GM's
3 Computers( Commercials on P6-200's !)
2 IM's

11th - 26th place

5 GM's
9 Computers
2 IM's

This is an impressive result for the computer programs. Results
aside,
the quality of the computer play was strong, easily IM calibre.
This against a field
of human opponents who appeared very computer aware (ie: many
of their openings
look prepared to some degree. Early out of book-closed).

Have any of the GM's at Aegon commented on the play of the
computers?
How might they assess the strength of the machines?

This was an enjoyable event. Too bad more standard time control
events
aren't organized.
--
Howard

Andreas Mader

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Apr 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/25/97
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I spoke to Alex Kure yesterday. Although he is a strong player with
>2200 ELO and he is a computer expert he only scored only 1.5 out of 6 and he was pleased with his result! He told me the reasons:

You cannot compare the Aegon tournament with a "normal" tournament.
First of all many human participants are having smalltalk with the
programers/operators during the play. Smoking is allowed (I know many
players who are disturbed by this!), it is always noisy. It is more
"fun" than "competition". Sure, everybody wants to win against the
programs, but there is no "pressure" like in a real tournament game.

So I think that the score of the machines would have been worse if the
games were held under REAL tournament conditions! Although it was
(again) an impressive event that I do not want to miss, the results are
telling very very little. I think that most programers are "happy" about
some bugs that came out, so they have work for the next weeks.... :-)

Best wishes
Andreas

miK

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Apr 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/27/97
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Andreas Mader <ma...@p6.gud.siemens.co.at> wrote:

>I spoke to Alex Kure yesterday. Although he is a strong player with
>2200 ELO and he is a computer expert he only scored only 1.5 out
>of 6 and he was pleased with his result! He told me the reasons:

>You cannot compare the Aegon tournament with a "normal" tournament.
>First of all many human participants are having smalltalk with the
>programers/operators during the play. Smoking is allowed (I know many
>players who are disturbed by this!), it is always noisy. It is more
>"fun" than "competition". Sure, everybody wants to win against the
>programs, but there is no "pressure" like in a real tournament game.

Maybe Alex has got a *straight-edge* approach to chess (jogging,
non-smoking and having radishes for lunch), but the majority is
veterans who are accustomed to/flower in a noisy, smoggy atmosphere.

>So I think that the score of the machines would have been worse if the
>games were held under REAL tournament conditions! Although it was
>(again) an impressive event that I do not want to miss, the results are
>telling very very little. I think that most programers are "happy" about
>some bugs that came out, so they have work for the next weeks.... :-)

I doubt they have...They'll probably wait for the PP300 to arrive next
year.

mic

>Best wishes
>Andreas

Andreas Mader

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Apr 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/28/97
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miK wrote:
>
> Andreas Mader <ma...@p6.gud.siemens.co.at> wrote:
>
> >I spoke to Alex Kure yesterday. Although he is a strong player with
> >2200 ELO and he is a computer expert he only scored only 1.5 out
> >of 6 and he was pleased with his result! He told me the reasons:
>
> >You cannot compare the Aegon tournament with a "normal" tournament.
> >First of all many human participants are having smalltalk with the
> >programers/operators during the play. Smoking is allowed (I know many
> >players who are disturbed by this!), it is always noisy. It is more
> >"fun" than "competition". Sure, everybody wants to win against the
> >programs, but there is no "pressure" like in a real tournament game.
>
> Maybe Alex has got a *straight-edge* approach to chess (jogging,
> non-smoking and having radishes for lunch), but the majority is
> veterans who are accustomed to/flower in a noisy, smoggy atmosphere.
>

Maybe your see chess as a sport for fat drunken chain-smokers...
I know a couple of good players who don't play chess any more because
they cannot stand the smoggy atmosphere.

And it is a difference between "noisy" and having smalltalk with the
operator during the game!

> >So I think that the score of the machines would have been worse if the
> >games were held under REAL tournament conditions! Although it was
> >(again) an impressive event that I do not want to miss, the results are
> >telling very very little. I think that most programers are "happy" about
> >some bugs that came out, so they have work for the next weeks.... :-)
>
> I doubt they have...They'll probably wait for the PP300 to arrive next
> year.
>

I hope they do more than this!

Andreas

> mic
>
> >Best wishes
> >Andreas

miK

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Apr 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/29/97
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Andreas Mader <ma...@p6.gud.siemens.co.at> wrote:

>miK wrote:
>>
>> Andreas Mader <ma...@p6.gud.siemens.co.at> wrote:
>>
>> >I spoke to Alex Kure yesterday. Although he is a strong player with
>> >2200 ELO and he is a computer expert he only scored only 1.5 out
>> >of 6 and he was pleased with his result! He told me the reasons:
>>
>> >You cannot compare the Aegon tournament with a "normal" tournament.
>> >First of all many human participants are having smalltalk with the
>> >programers/operators during the play. Smoking is allowed (I know many
>> >players who are disturbed by this!), it is always noisy. It is more
>> >"fun" than "competition". Sure, everybody wants to win against the
>> >programs, but there is no "pressure" like in a real tournament game.
>>
>> Maybe Alex has got a *straight-edge* approach to chess (jogging,
>> non-smoking and having radishes for lunch), but the majority is
>> veterans who are accustomed to/flower in a noisy, smoggy atmosphere.

>Maybe your see chess as a sport for fat drunken chain-smokers...

Don't put these awkward words into my mouth, I just said *veterans*.
People used to play chess in coffee houses, you know - with a smoke, a
drink and a chat (the game as a social event, not as a *sport*).

>I know a couple of good players who don't play chess any more because
>they cannot stand the smoggy atmosphere.

Maybe your friends should turn to playing chess to computers. Machines
have got many bad habits, but I've never heard of one that asked for a
light.

>And it is a difference between "noisy" and having smalltalk with the
>operator during the game!

OK. Maybe next time programmers ought to put some (more) *distraction*
in the search trees (as well).

>> >So I think that the score of the machines would have been worse if the
>> >games were held under REAL tournament conditions! Although it was
>> >(again) an impressive event that I do not want to miss, the results are
>> >telling very very little. I think that most programers are "happy" about
>> >some bugs that came out, so they have work for the next weeks.... :-)
>>
>> I doubt they have...They'll probably wait for the PP300 to arrive next
>> year.
>>

>I hope they do more than this!

I surely hope so too, Andreas...

mic
>>
>> >Best wishes
>> >Andreas

Andreas Mader

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Apr 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/29/97
to

miK wrote:

>> Maybe Alex has got a *straight-edge* approach to chess (jogging,
>> non-smoking and having radishes for lunch), but the majority is
>> veterans who are accustomed to/flower in a noisy, smoggy atmosphere.

>>Maybe you see chess as a sport for fat drunken chain-smokers...

>Don't put these awkward words into my mouth, I just said *veterans*.
>People used to play chess in coffee houses, you know - with a smoke, a
>drink and a chat (the game as a social event, not as a *sport*).

I just thought that if you do not like Alex Kures approach you are a fan
of an approach which is the other way round.... :-)

What I wanted to say with my first mail was that I believe that there
are a couple of points made by the computers which are due to the
tournament conditions (but only half a point made by the humans... :-)
Sorry Ed, "Wer den Schaden hat...")

Andreas

chrisw

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Apr 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/30/97
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--
http://www.demon.co.uk/oxford-soft

Andreas Mader <ma...@p6.gud.siemens.co.at> wrote in article
<33660E...@p6.gud.siemens.co.at>...

From what I observed the strong players kept quiet and there was quiet
around them (if not there was a great shussing), until they had a game sewn
up, at which point they got up and wondered around.

Weaker players either played quiet, or spoke to the operators, in some
cases, I suspect, trying to find out the program score, or best line
prediction.

Operators, on the whole, respect the players need for quiet. And if not,
they get shussed.

Chris Whittington

>
> Andreas
>

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