Don and Jakarta
Ed Schröder
From: df...@cse.ucsc.edu (Don Fong)
Tony Marsland <to...@cs.ualberta.ca> wrote:
>To cut a
>long story short we were unable to get any kind of an invitation for the
>Israeli participants, let alone a warm welcome.
:does anyone still disagree with my characterization of this
:event as a sham?
I am afraid Don is very right here.
This is indeed unacceptable.
- Ed Schroder -
Chris Whittington
The board of the ICCA also wrote:
>
> Tony Marsland: ICCA President
> David Levy: Vice President
> PS
> We did learn one political point from this event. It came as a surprise
> to us that participants from Russia and Israel would require personal
> visas. When we tried to secure a personal invitation for an Israeli
> team we were advised that Indonesia did not recognize Israel. To cut a
> long story short we were unable to get any kind of an invitation for the
> Israeli participants, let alone a warm welcome. We learned this more
> than a month after signing the contract.
> Since the contract did not contain any requirements regarding visas (we have
> never experienced this problem before) we had no legal basis for
> cancellation. In future we will always stipulate in the contract with
> the hosts that all qualified participants must be granted visas.
This situation is totally unacceptable and the tournament is now
wholly devalued.
We cannot allow the government of Indonesia to decide who will and
who won't be allowed to play in our tournament of the grounds of
their racist dislike of Jews/Israelis.
The time has come for all participating programmers to show
solidarity with the Israeli programming team and withdraw.
I have notified the ICCA that my application for Chess System Tal to
participate has been withdrawn. The ICCA have accepted the withdrawal.
You will note the last para of the ICCA board's comments. It is
a clear hint that they would have cancelled on these grounds alone
if the contract had allowed it.
It is a clear hint from the ICCA board to all participants to
withdraw now.
Chris Whittington
Don Fong
Tony Marsland <to...@cs.ualberta.ca> wrote:
|To cut a
|long story short we were unable to get any kind of an invitation for the
|Israeli participants, let alone a warm welcome.
Ed Schröder <10065...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
|This is indeed unacceptable.
Chris Whittington <chr...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk> wrote:
|This situation is totally unacceptable and the tournament is now
|wholly devalued.
bravo Chris, Ed, and Marty, and all other chess programmers who
have spoken against this Jakarta fiasco.
[...]
|You will note the last para of the ICCA board's comments. It is
|a clear hint that they would have cancelled on these grounds alone
|if the contract had allowed it.
|
|It is a clear hint from the ICCA board to all participants to
|withdraw now.
yes! and the sooner it happens, the sooner they can start
planning for an alternate site. even programmers who don't
care about human rights and democracy should see that the
"championship" would be a farce without MCHESS, REBEL, CST,
GENIUS, CM5K, et al.
--
--- don fong ``i still want the peace dividend''
--
Robert Hyatt
Walter Ravenek (rav...@chem.vu.nl) wrote:
:
: Having read the statements by Shay Bushinsky and the ICCA about the
: refusal of the Indonesian authorities to allow the Junior team to play
: in the WMCCC, I see no option but to withdraw my program ARTHUR from
: the tournament.
: Regardless of what one thinks of the human rights situation in Indonesia,
: I think we, as programmers, cannot tolerate that the government of a
: country decides which teams are allowed to participate in our championships
: and which are not.
: I have informed the ICCA about my decision.
:
Your decision is yours to make of course. However, I do hope you had a chance
to see the official ICCA post about this before you made your decision. It seems
that the Junior team was not "banned", but rather, for various reasons, chose to
not pursue a way to Jakarta. As I've said before, I believe that any chess
programmer has the right to not go, for any reason from political to personal.
However, from the explanation given by Tony/David, I believe that Junior's
programmers elected to not go, rather than being forbidden to go. Personally,
I'd have a difficult time making myself go to Iraq, because I doubt I'd be
welcome. I believe that Shay had the same feeling about Indonesia and can't
blame him in the least.
Personally, I hate to see anyone withdraw, but I'd also hate to see anyone
go against their basic instinct not to do so. You have to live with yourself
first, so that's the right instinct to go with. You can always tell the rest
of us to "kiss off", but it's difficult to make that stick when you are looking
in a mirror, unhappy with a decision you and you alone made. :) If you are
convinced, then you are doing the right thing. If you are "uncertain" (as I am),
then maybe further consideration after reading the ICCA post might change your
mind.
Walter Ravenek
In article <51k1ko$4...@juniper.cis.uab.edu>, hy...@crafty.cis.uab.edu
(Robert Hyatt) wrote:
I asked Shay Bushinsky to comment on the ICCA statement. He answered the
following (I think I can quote him):
<begin quote>
The details given in the ICCA statement are pretty accurate yet let me
tell you our point of view.
We learned about "the government would not issue visas" in the very early
stages of our contact with ICCA. We were also told at the same time that
the ICCA can do very little about it - and we were led to believe that it
is really up to us to change things. At that stage we could of just given
up but we wanted still to explore the matter deeper and try to resolve
the situation ourselves.
This is why it is mentioned in the ICCA statement about our effort with
travel agents etc.
Unfortunetely, from our own contacts including turning to our foreign
ministry it was clear that their is no way we can enter officially as
participants from Israel.
It looked too dangerous to disguise as tourists, or pretend elsewise using
other methods.
In fact we were told by our own foreign ministry that the essence of the
problem is with any sort of official representation of Israel. This ruled
out the other option mentioned to apply for a visa via a 3rd country as we
did try our embassy in Singapore.
It is also true that I have an American passport and using it was an idea
we thought of as a last resort reluctantly. I stress that this was not
"the very least" but the very best we could have to play in Indonesia.
I think it is quite reasonable to understand that still under these
circumstances we did not feel welcome and felt uncomfortable to hide
behind the American passport. Their is not only the question of
participating but also how does one participate.
In summary:
1. Indonsia would not allow Junior to participate under the Israeli flag.
(You can use any terminology that you want to portray this - I think
"banning" is quite a reasonable description.)
2. ICCA indicated that this situation is unfortunate yet a reality that
they can live with.
3. I can't accept the ICCA Indonesian "only offer" argument as a valid
one as it wasn't valid in the case of the Baghdad FIDE championships venue.
4. Many teams are not participating in this tournament for various reasons.
It demotes the event and calls for a valid and true world micro computer
championships."
<end quote>
Now, what is my position? I believe that that the Junior team could not
participate because the come from Israel. They have tried all reasonable
possibilities; playing under a US passport denies the essence of the
problem. They can not play because the Indonesian government won't let
them. I find it unacceptable that the Indonesian government interferes
with *our* tournament in this way. I cannot justify it for myself to go
under these circumstances.
I think ICCA made a grave mistake to let this happen. They should have
made it clear early on that interference with the tournament is unacceptable.
I don't think it matters that this issue was not in the contract. This
is not to say that I do not respect the ICCA and its board, but here I
disagree with its actions.
I don't seek sympathy for myself, but I can say that it was a hard
decision to make. I have worked hundreds of hours to improve my program
and I would very much like to meet other programmers and to enjoy the
competition. If the WMCCC would be held in another place, or if the
Junior team was allowed to participate after all, I would try to
participate. But not now.
Walter Ravenek
Robert Hyatt
Walter Ravenek (rav...@chem.vu.nl) wrote:
:
: I think ICCA made a grave mistake to let this happen. They should have
: made it clear early on that interference with the tournament is unacceptable.
: I don't think it matters that this issue was not in the contract. This
: is not to say that I do not respect the ICCA and its board, but here I
: disagree with its actions.
It's likely that we *all* agree with you here. However, I can visualize a
world 20 years ago where this would be an impossible obstacle to a computer
chess event like the WMCCC. The East Germans couldn't get out, Soviet citizens
would have problems, A US citizen going to a communist country had lots of hassles
with our state department, etc. If there were no suitable location where every
person wanting into the tournament could visit, we'd be in trouble. And the
event would likely not be held. Which would be a shame. In that case, I'd hope
that the tournament moved around enough to at least give everyone a chance to
compete every other year or so.
Of course, we are not in that world today, except for a few exceptions, many of
which center around Israel and their relationship with the Arab world. I'd
support moving the tournament with no problems. Maybe even in Israel. The
Indonesian university is interested in computer chess, let them run afoul of
trying to get into Israel next year if they develop a chess program. Maybe
their yelling at their government might start a change.
For me, there are simply too many ancillary considerations, from the volunteer
than is giving up two weeks of his life to go t Jakarta, to getting a machine to
use, to claiming a ticket from the ICCA that would be unusable were we to not
go, etc.
This will be my first WMCCC event, since the Cray has never qualified... :) as
a result, my not being there would not even be noticed, since it's caused no hue
and cry in the past when we were not there. In any case, I feel that cancelling
would do more harm than good. I'm not egoist enough to think that Crafty offers
any great drawing appeal to the event, but I have gotten lots of email over the
past 3 months expressing satisfaction in seeing it go and compete. Some probably
hoping to see it get wiped out, some hoping to see it win. In any case, it is
going there to do *something*... just what remains to be seen...
:
: I don't seek sympathy for myself, but I can say that it was a hard
: decision to make. I have worked hundreds of hours to improve my program
: and I would very much like to meet other programmers and to enjoy the
: competition. If the WMCCC would be held in another place, or if the
: Junior team was allowed to participate after all, I would try to
: participate. But not now.
:
: Walter Ravenek
Well stated and reasonable. Glad to see this decision based on what you
feel is right, rather than what someone's trying to tell you to do. Hope
you do make it there or to the next one. They all promise to be fun if
taken in the right "way"...
Chris Whittington
> : made it clear early on that interference with the tournament is unacceptable.
> : I don't think it matters that this issue was not in the contract. This
> : is not to say that I do not respect the ICCA and its board, but here I
> : disagree with its actions.
>
> : decision to make. I have worked hundreds of hours to improve my program
> : and I would very much like to meet other programmers and to enjoy the
> : competition. If the WMCCC would be held in another place, or if the
> : Junior team was allowed to participate after all, I would try to
> : participate. But not now.
> :
> : Walter Ravenek
>
> feel is right, rather than what someone's trying to tell you to do. Hope
> you do make it there or to the next one. They all promise to be fun if
> taken in the right "way"...
>
Well said.
I, for one, would like to make it quite clear that I wish those
of you going the best of luck there, and I, personally, don't
hold any bad feelings for those of you going.
Hope to see you all in 1997, if I'm not banned by then :)
Chris Whittington
Chris Whittington
hy...@crafty.cis.uab.edu (Robert Hyatt) wrote:
>
> Chris Whittington (chr...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> :
> : Well said.
> :
> : I, for one, would like to make it quite clear that I wish those
> : of you going the best of luck there, and I, personally, don't
> : hold any bad feelings for those of you going.
> :
> : Hope to see you all in 1997, if I'm not banned by then :)
> :
> : Chris Whittington
>
> Conversations are much more fun when we agree and don't go overboard, aren't
> they (I'll accept responsibility for part of the poor tone myself, so that's
> out of the way...)
No, no, no. They're much more fun when we disagree and *you* go
overboard :)
Overboard, moi ? Surely not. :)
Chris Whittington
>
> I don't particularly care who goes and who doesn't, as I've said before.
> Everyone has their own convictions that the have to follow. Anyone that
> does that can *not* be a complete idiot. For those going, it's going to
> be interesting. For those not going, you'll all be missed. For the rest,
> I hope you join me in watching if we can see anything...
>
> For Chris, keep coming back to ICC, it's a lot of fun, and you'll learn one
> heck of a lot playing there. I know I have, and am continuing to do so.
> Of course, if you play Crafty too often, I might develop a killer book for
> next year, so caution is advised... :) Of course, you might well do the
> same, so I'll be watching as well... :)
>
> Bob
>
Robert Hyatt
Chris Whittington (chr...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk) wrote:
:
: Well said.
:
: I, for one, would like to make it quite clear that I wish those
: of you going the best of luck there, and I, personally, don't
: hold any bad feelings for those of you going.
:
: Hope to see you all in 1997, if I'm not banned by then :)
:
: Chris Whittington
:
Conversations are much more fun when we agree and don't go overboard, aren't
they (I'll accept responsibility for part of the poor tone myself, so that's
out of the way...)
I don't particularly care who goes and who doesn't, as I've said before.
Don Fong
In article <8429968...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk>,
Chris Whittington <chr...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>hy...@crafty.cis.uab.edu (Robert Hyatt) wrote:
>> Conversations are much more fun when we agree and don't go overboard, aren't
>> they (I'll accept responsibility for part of the poor tone myself, so that's
>> out of the way...)
>
>overboard :)
IMHO it's more fun when you disagree but neither goes overboard. (:-)
Garby Leon
Dear Walter Ravenek,
Thank you for your recent post.
I -- and I'm sure many others -- applaud your decision to withdraw your
program ARTHUR from the upcoming WMCCC tournament in Jakarta.
Re your statement "Regardless of what one thinks of the human rights
situation in Indonesia," I hope you will take a moment to look over the
several articles posted here on the enormous and criminal human rights
violations perpetrated up to this day by the bloody Suharto regime. My
own feeling: I don't think anyone reading those articles will remain
neutral on the question of what Suharto really represents, but I leave
you and others to reach your own conclusions.
As I have posted here before: though perhaps a "futile gesture," I will
personally boycott any and all programs that compete in the Jakarta
tournament. I own several computer chess programs, and look forward to
buying more. With this in mind, I look forward to purchasing ARTHUR if
and when it becomes available.
But above all, I will always hold you in high regard for your decision,
and only hope that it will encourage others to take the same,
courageous step.
Sincerely,
Garb Leon
You wrote:
>
>In article <84260854...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk>, Chris Whittington
><chr...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> > Tony Marsland: ICCA President
>> > David Levy: Vice President
>>
>> > PS
>> > We did learn one political point from this event. It came as a
surprise to us that participants from Russia and Israel would require
personal visas. When we tried to secure a personal invitation
for an Israeli team we were advised that Indonesia did not recognize
Israel. To cut a long story short we were unable to get any kind of an
invitation for the Israeli participants, let alone a warm welcome. We
learned this more than a month after signing the contract.
>> > Since the contract did not contain any requirements regarding
visas (we have never experienced this problem before) we had no legal
basis for cancellation. In future we will always stipulate in the
contract with the hosts that all qualified participants must be granted
visas.
>> This situation is totally unacceptable and the tournament is now
>> wholly devalued.
>>
>> We cannot allow the government of Indonesia to decide who will and
>> who won't be allowed to play in our tournament of the grounds of
>> their racist dislike of Jews/Israelis.
RAVENEK:
>Having read the statements by Shay Bushinsky and the ICCA about the
>refusal of the Indonesian authorities to allow the Junior team to play
>in the WMCCC, I see no option but to withdraw my program ARTHUR from
>the tournament. Regardless of what one thinks of the human rights
situation in Indonesia, I think we, as programmers, cannot tolerate
that the government of a country decides which teams are allowed to
participate in our championships and which are not.
>I have informed the ICCA about my decision.
>
>Walter Ravenek
>Dept. of Chemistry
>Vrije Universiteit
>The Netherlands
Dave Gomboc
In article <5240i7$3...@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>,
Garby Leon <ga...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[snip]
>Re your statement "Regardless of what one thinks of the human rights
>situation in Indonesia," I hope you will take a moment to look over the
>several articles posted here on the enormous and criminal human rights
>violations perpetrated up to this day by the bloody Suharto regime. My
>own feeling: I don't think anyone reading those articles will remain
>neutral on the question of what Suharto really represents, but I leave
>you and others to reach your own conclusions.
>Garb Leon
I hope you will take a moment to look at the name of this newsgroup,
and examine several of your articles closely for references to
computer chess. (Hint: there are none.) Perhaps you should
pontificate in a more appropriate newsgroup next time.
Dave Gomboc
drgo...@a.stu.athabascau.ca
Don Fong
In article <526i83$b...@aurora.cs.athabascau.ca>,
and i hope you will take a moment to think about how silly
it is to pretend you don't see the connection. hint: guess
where the ICCA is holding its computer chess tournament.
IMHO Garby Leon's posts are completely appropriate for this
newsgroup --- if nothing else, they give the people who are
going to Jakarta some essential background info on the country
they will be visiting.
if he didn't explicitly make a reference to computer chess
in every one of his posts, it was probably because he overestimated
the intelligence of the readership.
perhaps you should just type "n" or "k" next time.
Chris Whittington
drgo...@a.stu.athabascau.ca (Dave Gomboc) wrote:
>
> In article <5240i7$3...@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>,
> Garby Leon <ga...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> [snip]
> >Re your statement "Regardless of what one thinks of the human rights
> >situation in Indonesia," I hope you will take a moment to look over the
> >several articles posted here on the enormous and criminal human rights
> >violations perpetrated up to this day by the bloody Suharto regime. My
> >own feeling: I don't think anyone reading those articles will remain
> >neutral on the question of what Suharto really represents, but I leave
> >you and others to reach your own conclusions.
> [snip]
> >Garb Leon
>
> I hope you will take a moment to look at the name of this newsgroup,
> and examine several of your articles closely for references to
> computer chess. (Hint: there are none.) Perhaps you should
> pontificate in a more appropriate newsgroup next time.
No, you're wrong.
Sometimes the world impinges on the little affair of computer chess.
Chris Whittington
>
> Dave Gomboc
> drgo...@a.stu.athabascau.ca
>
Garby Leon
In <526i83$b...@aurora.cs.athabascau.ca> drgo...@a.stu.athabascau.ca
(Dave Gomboc) writes:
>
>In article <5240i7$3...@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>,
>Garby Leon <ga...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>[snip]
>>Re your statement "Regardless of what one thinks of the human rights
>>situation in Indonesia," I hope you will take a moment to look over
the several articles posted here on the enormous and criminal human
rights violations perpetrated up to this day by the bloody Suharto
regime. My own feeling: I don't think anyone reading those articles
will remain neutral on the question of what Suharto really represents,
but I leave you and others to reach your own conclusions.
>[snip]
>>Garb Leon
>
>I hope you will take a moment to look at the name of this newsgroup,
>and examine several of your articles closely for references to
>computer chess. (Hint: there are none.) Perhaps you should
>pontificate in a more appropriate newsgroup next time.
>
>Dave Gomboc
>drgo...@a.stu.athabascau.ca
And I hope you will take a moment to examine your article closely for
references to computer chess. (Hint: there are none.)
But of course you've missed the point, which is really too obvious to
mention: the scheduled WMCCC tournament in Jakarta. That tournament
has everything to do with computer chess.
Given that, contrary to your assertion, many posters on this newsgroup
have found it very relevant to discuss issues around Jakarta and the
tournament at some length -- and to do more than merely discuss, since
a number of major competitors have dropped out, for reasons which you
might also describe as "having nothing to do with computer chess."
Others have been refused access to the tournament, also for reasons you
might describe as "having nothing to do with computer chess." That has
provoked a substantial discussion as well.
So perhaps your definition of what does, and what doesn't, have
anything to do with computer chess, needs some revision. Certainly
you're in a minority. A lot of posters here, on both sides, obviously
disagree with you, and their participation -- which I applaud -- has
already proven that.
For my part, I've offered a few short articles describing recent events
in Indonesia that chronicle a nightmare of genocidal murder, torture,
repression and human misery brought about by the criminal acts of the
Suharto regime. I've only offered a few small pieces of that, with
restraint, although there could be an avalanche more.
I believe that, no matter how a person feels about the political and
moral ramifications of participating in the Jakarta WMCCC, it is very
important indeed for all those who actually go, to have some
understanding of what the context of Jakarta, the Suharto regime, and
tournament actually is. And I think most people who do attend, having
looked at one or more of those articles, will see Jakarta through
different eyes.
In that alone, I think something very positive has been achieved.
And even people who don't agree with my point of view -- that the
tournament should be boycotted by all -- have responded positively to
receiving a few glimpses of what's really going on.
Perhaps you'd rather censor that information. 'Kill the messenger' is
a timeworn tactic when the facts start to overwhelm an argument that
can't be sustained.
We're all human beings, we all live on this planet, and we all have
some responsibility for others. That's uncomfortable at times, and I
think it is here. But this is an important discussion -- maybe even
more important than the specifics of computer chess, for a moment --
and overall, I've been impressed with the thoughtfulness and decorum
maintained. That speaks well for everyone involved.
Of course, it's always easier to keep your head in the sand, especially
where a ticklish moral and political issue is involved. I've been very
impressed that posters here, both pro and con the WMCCC tournamen
Robert Hyatt
Don Fong (df...@cse.ucsc.edu) wrote:
: In article <526i83$b...@aurora.cs.athabascau.ca>,
: Dave Gomboc <drgo...@a.stu.athabascau.ca> wrote:
: >In article <5240i7$3...@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>,
: >Garby Leon <ga...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
: >[snip]
: >>Re your statement "Regardless of what one thinks of the human rights
: >>situation in Indonesia," I hope you will take a moment to look over the
: >>several articles posted here on the enormous and criminal human rights
: >>violations perpetrated up to this day by the bloody Suharto regime. My
: >>own feeling: I don't think anyone reading those articles will remain
: >>neutral on the question of what Suharto really represents, but I leave
: >>you and others to reach your own conclusions.
: >[snip]
: >>Garb Leon
: >
: >I hope you will take a moment to look at the name of this newsgroup,
: >and examine several of your articles closely for references to
: >computer chess. (Hint: there are none.) Perhaps you should
: >pontificate in a more appropriate newsgroup next time.
: and i hope you will take a moment to think about how silly
: it is to pretend you don't see the connection. hint: guess
: where the ICCA is holding its computer chess tournament.
: IMHO Garby Leon's posts are completely appropriate for this
: newsgroup --- if nothing else, they give the people who are
: going to Jakarta some essential background info on the country
: they will be visiting.
: if he didn't explicitly make a reference to computer chess
: in every one of his posts, it was probably because he overestimated
: the intelligence of the readership.
:
: perhaps you should just type "n" or "k" next time.
I think the argument and discussion is appropriate. I don't think the long
"Indonesia history lesson" posts are. Otherwise we are going to be swamped
by all sorts of non-chess stuff here. Why not simply refer anyone that's
interested to the appropriate newsgroup, rather than flooding the computer
chess forum with non-computer-chess stuff?
Dave Gomboc
> and i hope you will take a moment to think about how silly
>it is to pretend you don't see the connection. hint: guess
>where the ICCA is holding its computer chess tournament.
>IMHO Garby Leon's posts are completely appropriate for this
>newsgroup --- if nothing else, they give the people who are
>going to Jakarta some essential background info on the country
>they will be visiting.
> if he didn't explicitly make a reference to computer chess
>in every one of his posts, it was probably because he overestimated
>the intelligence of the readership.
>
> perhaps you should just type "n" or "k" next time.
>
>--
>--- don fong ``i still want the peace dividend''
>--
One or two posts were fine. But after 4 or 5, I started hitting 'n'.
Recently I hit 'k'. :-) I feel he should have made some attempt to
tie in the computer chess tournament to the extended list of atrocities.
If I wanted to read about mass killings in Indonesia, I certainly wouldn't
be looking in rec.games.chess.computer.
This will be my only reply to any of responses to my earlier post.
Garby had made his point with the first couple of "fact sheets".
There was, and is, no need to alienate his audience with excessive
monologue.
Dave Gomboc
drgo...@a.stu.athabascau.ca
Garby Leon
In <528h3g$l...@aurora.cs.athabascau.ca> drgo...@a.stu.athabascau.ca
The first couple of posts covered the history of the Suharto regime and
the invasion of East Timor and resulting genocidal war from 1975 to the
early 1990's. The Dili massacre is an important part of this because
it was eyewitnessed by Alan Nairn (NATION, USA TODAY), a rarity, and a
demonstration of just how blatant and fearless the repression in East
Timor is.
The second group of posts addressed current news developments -- from
1996 -- including photographs on the internet of torture victims in
East Timor, mass graves, etc. I thought it was important to show that
although the war has been going on for 20 years, it isn't just ancient
history. The entire, ugly scenario is still unfolding now, as we write
and talk and play with our computer chess programs.
I don't intend to flood the newsgroup with further articles; I think
the point is made, and that participants in the Jakarta WMCCC will go
with a new awareness of what's all around them, and of why the Suharto
regime is picking up their tab.
There is no free lunch, of course.
Thanks to all who have taken a moment to consider the specifics of the
situation, and for the patience and forebearance of others who have
felt that this was an important part of the discussion, although they
may disagree with my specific conclusion.
My conclusion -- in agreement with Don Fong -- is that going to
Jakarta, and accepting the hospitality of the genocidal regime there,
is an immoral thing to do.
Sincerely,
-- Garb Leon
Chris Whittington
And many of us agree with you.
Chris Whittington
>
> Sincerely,
>
> -- Garb Leon
>
>
>
brucemo
Garby Leon wrote:
> I don't intend to flood the newsgroup with further articles; I think
> the point is made, and that participants in the Jakarta WMCCC will go
> with a new awareness of what's all around them, and of why the Suharto
> regime is picking up their tab.
Please support your contention that the Indonesian government is paying for this.
The notion that the university receives subsidies from the government for this
tournament has gone unchallenged. I challenge it, as I received information in via
e-mail that the university is a private university, and not a public one.
Perhaps it is true that the Indonesian government is funding this, but you have
just assumed this, rather than trying to show any evidence, and this isn't
responsible.
I think that either of the following are possible:
a) The tournament is being run independently of the government.
b) The government is funding the university, but doesn't give a damn what the
university does with the money.
I think that either of these situations are more likely than that the government is
trying to somehow buy respectability by running a chess tournament.
bruce
Chris Whittington
Or, more likely, the University came up with the idea and went to
the relevant Government ministry that has special funds for
promotion of international goodwill.
Ministry said how much, University said $?????, Ministry said OK.
Chris Whittington