crafty copyright problem
Robert Hyatt
This post is a carryover from the computer chess club, for those not
reading things over there. First, some background.
A while back, I encountered a new program on one of the chess servers
(either FICS or chess.net, I don't recall which) that claimed to be
running a program 'voyager'. The public information on Voyager is "A
new program based on fuzzy logic". That should have been a warning
flag, of course.
I found this program quite strong, but didn't pay any attention until
someone else asked me about it (they had gotten a copy somehow). I
asked them to send it to me and I would look. I was _very_ surprised
at what I found. The following is part of the analysis I did on the
executable for voyager version 2.05:
First, the binary files used by crafty (book.bin, books.bin, position.bin)
are _identical_. Byte for byte. File for file. The filenames are different,
but the content is not. Ditto for book.lrn and position.lrn. They are still
there, but the ascii stuff in 'em is identical to current crafty.
--------------------------------------------------------
The stuff below was obtained by doing a 'strings voyager.exe >xx' to
get the character strings in the file. There are many taken directly
from various modules, as given below. My comments always preceed a
string of "-----------------------"
--------------------------------------------------------
im Buch 0.0s Haeufigkeit %3d%%
spielbare Zuege, die nicht im Buch sind
spielbare Zuege
Im Buch
Typical crafty output. 'in book' 0.0 seconds search time, etc...
--------------------------------------------------------
usage: book [option] [filename] [maxply] [minplay]
choose from %d best moves.
usage: book width <n>
width
at least %d times.
search book moves if the most popular was not played
usage: book trigger <n>
trigger
play best book line after search.
choose from book moves randomly (using weights.)
valid options are 0-1.
usage: book random <n>
random
%s elapsed.
time used: %s cpu
longest cluster of moves was %d.
deepest book line was %d plies.
book contains %d unique positions.
discarded %d moves (win/lose=%.1f%%).
discarded %d moves (minplayed=%d).
discarded %d moves (maxply=%d).
found %d errors during parsing.
parsed %d moves (%d games).
sort.%d
ERROR! write failed, disk probably full.
Unable to malloc() index block, aborting
merging sorted files (%d) (10K/dot)
S <done>
ERROR! move %d: %s is illegal (line %d)
0123456789/-.*
(%d)
1/2-1/2
esult
Site
end-of-file reached
parsing pgn move file (10000 moves/dot)
open.vbs
Unable to malloc() sort buffer, aborting
file %s does not exist.
all strings that you can directly find in source file book.c for
crafty...
--------------------------------------------------------
reject
accept
usage: book mask accept|reject value
mask
Buch Datei ist aktiviert!
%s/open.vbs
%s/buch.vbs
Buch Datei ist deaktiviert!
maxply [minplay] [win/lose %]
usage: book|books create filename
create
ERROR. unable to open sort output file
out of memory. aborting.
unable to open sort.%d file, may be too many files open.
more strings from book.c
--------------------------------------------------------
2.05
????.??.??
Gegner
Voyager 2.05
./TB
EPD Fatal error: %s.
Switch fault detected.
seems to claim it is version 2.05. Also has the normal "tbpath"
constant used in crafty.
--------------------------------------------------------
resign
refreq
refcom
noop
hmvc
fmvn
draw_reject
draw_offer
draw_claim
draw_accept
Black
White
fault
'noop' is a killer above. That is a special command added a couple of
years ago before I rewrote my input to use non-buffered I/O. Xboard and
winboard send commands in 'threes' (move/time xxx/otim xxx) which made
me do three reads to get them. I then had to make my custom interface
send three commands each time it needed to tell me something. I used
'noop' as a 'dummy command' to make up the missing commands to get three
over to avoid hanging. I doubt anyone would add such a command, and call
it 'noop' by mere chance.
--------------------------------------------------------
KQQQK
KQQRK
KQQBK
KQQNK
KQQPK
KQRRK
KQRBK
KQRNK
KQRPK
KQBBK
KQBNK
KQBPK
KQNNK
KQNPK
KQPPK
KRRRK
KRRBK
KRRNK
KRRPK
KRBBK
KRBNK
KRBPK
KRNNK
KRNPK
KRPPK
KBBBK
KBBNK
KBBPK
KBNNK
KBNPK
KBPPK
KNNNK
KNNPK
KNPPK
KPPPK
KQQKQ
KQQKR
KQQKB
KQQKN
KQQKP
KQRKQ
KQRKR
KQRKB
KQRKN
KQRKP
KQBKQ
KQBKR
KQBKB
KQBKN
KQBKP
KQNKQ
KQNKR
KQNKB
KQNKN
KQNKP
KQPKQ
KQPKR
KQPKB
KQPKN
KQPKP
KRRKQ
KRRKR
KRRKB
KRRKN
KRRKP
KRBKQ
KRBKR
KRBKB
KRBKN
KRBKP
KRNKQ
KRNKR
KRNKB
KRNKN
KRNKP
KRPKQ
KRPKR
KRPKB
KRPKN
KRPKP
KBBKQ
KBBKR
KBBKB
KBBKN
KBBKP
KBNKQ
KBNKR
KBNKB
KBNKN
KBNKP
KBPKQ
KBPKR
KBPKB
KBPKN
KBPKP
KNNKQ
KNNKR
KNNKB
KNNKN
KNNKP
KNPKQ
KNPKR
KNPKB
KNPKN
KNPKP
KPPKQ
KPPKR
KPPKB
KPPKN
KPPKP
KQQK
KQRK
KQBK
KQNK
KQPK
KRRK
KRBK
KRNK
KRPK
KBBK
KBNK
KBPK
KNNK
KNPK
KPPK
KQKQ
KQKR
KQKB
KQKN
KQKP
KRKR
KRKB
KRKN
KRKP
KBKB
KBKN
KBKP
KNKN
KNKP
KPKP
.tbb
.tbw
egtb file names in Edward's code.
--------------------------------------------------------
EPDTBInitTBID
EG fault: a problem occurred during %s processing
EG fault: can't locate valid EG command
This command takes one parameter.
Can't open %s for writing
Can't open %s for reading
This command takes two parameters
Centipawn evaluation: %hd
%s can be mated in %hd move%s.
%s can mate in %hd move%s.
The position is a draw with best play.
The position score was located in a tablebase file.
%s can checkmate in one move with %s.
Position is drawn: insufficient mating material.
%s is stalemated.
%s is checkmated.
No certain evaluation is available.
This position is illegal.
This command takes no parameters.
This command is not yet implemented.
Duplex slave mode end
Duplex slave mode begin
EPDCommHandler: refcom fault
h%05hd.pml
c%05hd.pgn
No moves are available.
There is 1 move available.
There are %hd moves available.
Unknown tag name; available tag names are:
Enumeration to depth %ld totals %ld
This command takes three parameters
Press <return> for more command help
%s: %s
-------------------------------
Available EPD glue command list
WARP: %s
PHASER: TESTINGFILE: %ld
JANEWAY:
FEHLER!!
WARP:
PFLC: record %ld: cook: %s
unsol mean node frequency: %.2f Hz
unsol acs: %ld mean unsol acs: %.2f
unsol acn: %ld mean unsol acn: %.2f
unsol acd: %ld mean unsol acd: %.2f
unsol: %ld unsol percent: %.2f
solve mean node frequency: %.2f Hz
solve acs: %ld mean solve acs: %.2f
solve acn: %ld mean solve acn: %.2f
solve acd: %ld mean solve acd: %.2f
solve: %ld solve percent: %.2f
total mean node frequency: %.2f Hz
total acs: %ld mean total acs: %.2f
total acn: %ld mean total acn: %.2f
total acd: %ld mean total acd: %.2f
total: %ld
EPD glue developer testing
Set PGN tag pair <tag-name> to <value>
Save PGN game to <file>
Show EPD four fields for the current position
Score benchmark EPD results from <file>
Purge EPD <opcode> from <file1> to <file2>
Locate mating cooks in result <file>
Analyze EPD data from <file1> to <file2>
Repair EPD data from <file1> to <file2>
Normalize EPD data from <file1> to <file2>
No operation
Display more help for <command>
Load EPD record from <file> <line-number>
Load PGN game from <file>
Slave to Argus at <hostname> and <portnumber>
Display EPD glue command descriptions
Enumerate to <depth> from <file1> to <file2>
Display PGN tag pair <tag-name> value
Display PGN Seven Tag Roster
Display SAN move list
Display game using PGN
Slave to Duplex using <pipefile-basename>
Slave to ICS at <hostname> and <portnumber>
Display certain score for the current position
Fix <file1> data for Bookup input <file2>
Append PGN game to <file>
epdtest
epdstpv
epdspgn
epdshow
epdscor
epdpfop
epdpflc
epdpfga
epdpfdr
epdpfdn
epdnoop
epdmore
epdlrec
epdlpgn
epdlink
epdhelp
epdenum
epddtpv
epddstr
epddsml
epddpgn
epdcomm
epdcics
epdcert
epdbfix
epdapgn
OK.. They copied all the epd stuff. But it is Edward's code and is
public domain... with the usual copyleft license.
--------------------------------------------------------
malloc() failed, not enough memory.
history_filename
log_filename
Nichts zum weitermachen, Sir!
lese %s/willi.log
%s/willi.log
%s/rudi.log
position
%s/janeway.lrn
Lernfunktion deaktiviert!
%s/ds9.lrn
Buchlernen abgeschaltet!
%s/voy1.lrn
filenames normally used are game.nnn, log.nnn, book.lrn, etc. slight
changes. But not much of a change.
--------------------------------------------------------
%s/book.lrn
clear
%d insgesamt gelernte Stellungen
Hinzugefuegt wurden %d gelernte Stellungen!
[%d %d %d]
%c%c
%c
setboard
[Datum "%4d.%02d.%02d"]
,;{}
FEHLER!!!
unable to open position learning file [%s/position.bin].
setposition
%s/position.bin
unable to open position learning file [%s/position.lrn].
%s/position.lrn
(%d %d %d)
gelernte Stellung, voyager=%d wert=%d
%s [%d %d %d]
All the above strings can be found in learn.c and init.c... (except for
the bits of German of course. :) )
--------------------------------------------------------
ANTICOMPUTER-Funktion implantiert
Funny. I have a variable that says 'if playing a computer, don't
diddle around with the draw score based on time left, and so forth./
Seems they do this too?
--------------------------------------------------------
Voyager V%s (c) 1998 by G.Mueller CH
Dieser Befehl ist der Voyager unbekannt!
voyager.ini
Unbekannter Befehl!
Das ist ein unbekannter Befehl!
path
Huch, da waren wohl die Borg am Werk!!! Normal %d
bad move from hash table, ply=%d
%s
%2i %s%7s
My output format, exactly...
Interesting that voyager has a (copyright) mentioned above. IE you can
take source that is already copyrighted and then copyright it yourself?
Interesting take on international law.
--------------------------------------------------------
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR b KQkq - 0 1"
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "%s"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Result "%s"]
[BlackElo "%s"]
[Black "%s"]
[WhiteElo "%s"]
[White "%s"]
[Round "%s"]
[Site "%s"]
[Event "%s"]
The above written by a 'crafty user' to set up the initial position for
oddball opening books. The above is in option.c, verbatim.
--------------------------------------------------------
Kann die Datei zum Schreiben nicht
ffnen!
Voyager V%s
Salut das ist die Voyager V%s!
winboard
xboard
white
Suchtiefe jetzt %d.
Das geht so:tiefe <n>!
speichere
result
lade
read
Illegal!!!!
Das geht so:rueck <Zugnummer>
rueck
reset %d
remove
nopost
post
level
stufe
strings in option.c (commands) converted to German.
--------------------------------------------------------
814106
Mein Tip: %s
uhr zeigt Schachuhr
rueck <Zugnr.> nimmt Zuege bis zu dieser Zugnummer retour
zuege Zeigt die bisher gespielten Zuege an
tip Voyager rechnet mit diesem Zug
zeit Zeitkontrolleneinstellung
stufe <Z> <M> <F> gibt Zeitvorgaben (Zuege Minuten Fischerzuschlag)
zieh Voyager beginnt zu rechnen (mit Warp 10)
tiefe <n> feste Suchtiefe n (max=65)
unent bietet Remis an
Return fuer mehr
speichere <Dateiname.pgn> speichert im pgn Format ab
lade <Dateiname.pgn> laed pgn Partie
lade Zuege eingeben, wie bei Nunn Test etc.
neu neue Partie
zuege zeigt die bisher gespielten Zuege an
hashb <n> Bauernhashtabellengroesse in MB
hash <n> Hashtabellengroesse in Megabyte
ende beendet die Voyager
remis <n> stellt den Remiswert ein
anti aktiviert die ANTICOMPUTER-Funktion
ton ein/aus schaltet Ton ein oder aus
hilfe
Crafty "help" command in German. Option.c was taken but some commands
were 'stripped out'.
--------------------------------------------------------
/%d/%d
produced %d moves at root
Search() no moves! ply=%d
Search
Remis endeckt!! Tiefe=%d.
Nichts da zum Rechnen!
SearchRoot
%s!!
...
%s!!
The above from SearchRoot() in module searchr.c in crafty. Trace
output for debugging. If you look at searchr.c, you can find some of
the above strings verbatim. Others were modified (remis = draw, for
example.)
%2i %s !!
%s] S:%d %s(%d)
The above from SearchOutput() in searchr.c also.
--------------------------------------------------------
-Mat%.2d
Mat%.2d
-Mate
Mate
+infnty
-infnty
%7.2f
-Mat%.2d
Mat%.2d
-Mate
Mate
+infnty
-infnty
These are how I display scores. Mat18, -Mat04, +infinity should never
happen but does in trace output. This is in utility.c, "DisplayEvaluation()"
function.
--------------------------------------------------------
%+.2f
play
ERROR. comment spans over 100 lines, starting at line %d
%64s
(){}[]
setboard %s
OK.. it uses the 'setboard' command which is what crafty uses to set
a FEN position. (module=setboard.c).
--------------------------------------------------------
BlackElo
WhiteElo
%2d %5d %7d %6u %s
buch
%s d%d+ %s >(%s) %s <re-searching>
%s d%d+ %s %s %s
kibitz d%d+ %s >(%s) %s <re-searching>
kibitz d%d+ %s %s %s
%s d%d-> %s %s %s
kibitz d%d-> %s %s %s
%s %s
kibitz %s
%s pv:%s
kibitz pv:%s
%s d%d; %s; nps %d; time %s; cpu %d%%; p:%d
kibitz d%d; %s; nps %d; time %s; cpu %d%%; p:%d
%s mated in %d moves.
%s mate in %d moves.
kibitz mate in %d moves.
whisper
tell %d
tell %d (%s)
These are all things in "whisper.c" used to whisper/kibitz analysis
on ICC thru xboard/winboard.
--------------------------------------------------------
There are some other things that match perfectly, but I don't want to give
too many things so that this methodology won't work for the next case. Just
leave it at 'bitmap patterns' and 'scoring arrays'. They match exactly as
well. This is Crafty. Yes it might have a few different eval values. And
maybe a different search extension value. And may use null move R=3 rather
than 2 (a one line change BTW). But it is _not_ a "new program based on
fuzzy logic" unless you consider violating a copyright and stealing
someone else's work as "fuzzy logic"...
You are welcome to draw your own conclusions. I'd suggest that if they
want to maintain that this is a 'new' program that they submit their source
to someone for analysis. But that will _never_ happen, copyright or not.
IE no bionic source has ever been released, even though the copyright
certainly requires it. No reason to think this case will be any
different, is there?
I'm seriously considering letting our university attorney have a look at
this. It is very blatent. And it is time for it to _stop_. I consider
it outrageous that someone would do this. I consider it insulting that they
do it so blatently, thinking no one is smart enough to figure it out.
They need a dose of "Bob's fuzzy logic"
comments welcome, of course...
And the story doesn't end there. I have also heard, thru the grapevine,
that at least two commercial programs are going to have a parallel search.
Taken directly from Crafty. But there is one saving grace. I have two
very subtle parallel search bugs that I have 'circumvented' without fixing.
Moving things around in memory will expose them again. I hope it happens
at the most embarassing time. And no, I won't reveal the names of the guilty
until the programs are released. I'll then personally purchase them and go
thru them in binary to see if the SMP stuff is new or copied. If copied, you
can be _certain_ I will react.
Both here and legally. I'd hope that most readers here would avoid buying
any program that is based on a copyright violation.
--
Robert Hyatt Computer and Information Sciences
hy...@cis.uab.edu University of Alabama at Birmingham
(205) 934-2213 115A Campbell Hall, UAB Station
(205) 934-5473 FAX Birmingham, AL 35294-1170
Komputer Korner
into another program and have the new program still be legally
copyrightable? I guess this is analogous to copyright of song
material. There is a point at which too much copying is fraud but the
problem is where do the courts draw the line?
--
--
Komputer Korner
The inkompetent komputer
To send email take the 1 out of my address. My email address is
kor...@netcom.ca but take the 1 out before sending the email.
Robert Hyatt wrote in message <7aemu3$o38$1...@juniper.cis.uab.edu>...
>
>This post is a carryover from the computer chess club, for those not
>reading things over there. First, some background.
>
>A while back, I encountered a new program on one of the chess servers
>(either FICS or chess.net, I don't recall which) that claimed to be
>running a program 'voyager'. The public information on Voyager is "A
>new program based on fuzzy logic". That should have been a warning
>flag, of course.
>
>I found this program quite strong, but didn't pay any attention until
>someone else asked me about it (they had gotten a copy somehow). I
>asked them to send it to me and I would look. I was _very_ surprised
>at what I found. The following is part of the analysis I did on the
>executable for voyager version 2.05:
>
>
>First, the binary files used by crafty (book.bin, books.bin,
position.bin)
>are _identical_. Byte for byte. File for file. The filenames are
different,
>but the content is not. Ditto for book.lrn and position.lrn. They
are still
>there, but the ascii stuff in 'em is identical to current crafty.
snipped
>They need a dose of "Bob's fuzzy logic"
>
>comments welcome, of course...
snipped
Albert Silver
Robert Hyatt wrote:
I'd just sue them. They have already 'copyrighted' the sweat and tears you have so
benevolently allowed others to learn from and enjoy. You know that despite any
gripes some people may have with you, I have no doubt *ALL* here would support you
in this matter.
Albert Silver
Rolf Tueschen
<36CB3957...@unisys.com.br>:
>I'd just sue them. They have already 'copyrighted' the sweat and tears you have so
>benevolently allowed others to learn from and enjoy. You know that despite any
>gripes some people may have with you, I have no doubt *ALL* here would support you
>in this matter.
No way. At first could you please explain why a free program is also
copyrighted? And then I remember well how Bob defended Ed who clearly
had stolen data in his Million Base. Although-- he surely didn't steal
it himself. But then Bob showed no interest for the owners in the INF
company at all.
I would beg Bob and people like you to rethink this all over. Nothing
has happened until now. Already in Jakarta someone presented a crafty
clone without "permission". I wouldn't hold my breath that all that
won't go commercial anyway.
Bob, you really take away something from your aura if you suddenly
behave like a sissy. You always play with open cards. Why discussing
evantualities? On dozens of pages? As if you had nothing better to do.
If someone really would present a crafty clone under the label of his
own without even mentioning Crafty then it's a relevamt cheat but has
nothing to do with copyright. It's impostordom then. And then you could
easily show the evidence.
But your ideas, Bob, how could you copyright them? This seems not sound
to me. So, feel free to do another character assassination of the
sub-human...
Robert Hyatt
: Bob, since your source code is public, how much of it can be copied
: into another program and have the new program still be legally
: copyrightable? I guess this is analogous to copyright of song
: material. There is a point at which too much copying is fraud but the
: problem is where do the courts draw the line?
Basically, _none_... but there is an exception (without the written
permission of the author). I doubt I'd refuse anyone anything. But
in general, copying _anything_ written by someone else is a no-no,
unless the work is cited somewhere, and unless you have permission.
My primary requirement is that if something is done to crafty to make
it 'better', then that 'something' must be as public as the original
code was. Because many have contributed bits and pieces... Eugene,
George, Steffen, Mark, SJE, and many others that are to numerous to
mention. Seems unfair that they modify what I did, then they make
their stuff public, and then someone else takes _all_ of this and
purports it to be 'original'...
I suppose it has to do with 'national morals' or whatever, ie the
software piracy problem in China, to name but one.
Robert Hyatt
: Albert Silver <sil...@unisys.com.br> wrote in
: <36CB3957...@unisys.com.br>:
:>I'd just sue them. They have already 'copyrighted' the sweat and tears you have so
:>benevolently allowed others to learn from and enjoy. You know that despite any
:>gripes some people may have with you, I have no doubt *ALL* here would support you
:>in this matter.
: No way. At first could you please explain why a free program is also
: copyrighted?
Easy. because in the source I explicitly state that it is copyrighted.
And copyright law specifically says that you must explicitly _give up_
the copyright before it is lost. In my case, I have done exactly the
opposite, explicitly keeping the copyright.
Newspaper articles are copyrighted, even though they are put out in
the public.
: And then I remember well how Bob defended Ed who clearly
: had stolen data in his Million Base. Although-- he surely didn't steal
: it himself. But then Bob showed no interest for the owners in the INF
: company at all.
Because, as I said, game scores are not copyrightable. Still aren't. ANd
as I said also, _if_ Ed's company had distributed analysis by GM players,
_that_ was bad because the analysis _is_ copyrightable. I haven't changed
my stance at all.
: I would beg Bob and people like you to rethink this all over. Nothing
: has happened until now. Already in Jakarta someone presented a crafty
: clone without "permission". I wouldn't hold my breath that all that
: won't go commercial anyway.
It has happened 3 times now. I doubt that is the end.
: Bob, you really take away something from your aura if you suddenly
: behave like a sissy. You always play with open cards. Why discussing
: evantualities? On dozens of pages? As if you had nothing better to do.
: If someone really would present a crafty clone under the label of his
: own without even mentioning Crafty then it's a relevamt cheat but has
: nothing to do with copyright. It's impostordom then. And then you could
: easily show the evidence.
Copyright also applies to anything I write. Even here.
: But your ideas, Bob, how could you copyright them? This seems not sound
: to me. So, feel free to do another character assassination of the
: sub-human...
You don't copyright 'ideas' you patent them. You copyright 'written text'
which is what the source code of crafty is, exactly.
And the only thing I see 'sub-human' about you is your "IQ". You need to
do one of the following:
(1) get rid of your computer
(2) get rid of your pet monkey
(3) both of the above
Bill Newton
<sil...@unisys.com.br> wrote:
650 lines snipped ...........
>I'd just sue them. They have already 'copyrighted' the sweat and tears you have so
>benevolently allowed others to learn from and enjoy. You know that despite any
>gripes some people may have with you, I have no doubt *ALL* here would support you
>in this matter.
Albert, did you really have to quote 650 lines just add four lines of
your own?
Come on matey ....think before you post huge quotes.
Regards.
Rolf Tueschen
<36cb65b5....@news.freeserve.net>:
>On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:49:12 -0300, Albert Silver
><sil...@unisys.com.br> wrote:
>650 lines snipped ...........
>>I'd just sue them. They have already 'copyrighted' the sweat and tears you have so
>>benevolently allowed others to learn from and enjoy. You know that despite any
>>gripes some people may have with you, I have no doubt *ALL* here would support you
>>in this matter.
>Albert, did you really have to quote 650 lines just add four lines of
>your own?
>Come on matey ....think before you post huge quotes.
Matey, The Stalker is to get you. Please make sure that your windows are
closed.
>Regards.
Steffen A. Jakob
> Albert Silver <sil...@unisys.com.br> wrote in
> <36CB3957...@unisys.com.br>:
>
> >I'd just sue them. They have already 'copyrighted' the sweat and tears you have so
> >benevolently allowed others to learn from and enjoy. You know that despite any
> >gripes some people may have with you, I have no doubt *ALL* here would support you
> >in this matter.
>
> No way. At first could you please explain why a free program is also
> copyrighted? And then I remember well how Bob defended Ed who clearly
> had stolen data in his Million Base. Although-- he surely didn't steal
> it himself. But then Bob showed no interest for the owners in the INF
> company at all.
>
> I would beg Bob and people like you to rethink this all over. Nothing
> has happened until now. Already in Jakarta someone presented a crafty
> clone without "permission". I wouldn't hold my breath that all that
> won't go commercial anyway.
>
> Bob, you really take away something from your aura if you suddenly
> behave like a sissy. You always play with open cards. Why discussing
> evantualities? On dozens of pages? As if you had nothing better to do.
> If someone really would present a crafty clone under the label of his
> own without even mentioning Crafty then it's a relevamt cheat but has
> nothing to do with copyright. It's impostordom then. And then you could
> easily show the evidence.
>
> But your ideas, Bob, how could you copyright them? This seems not sound
> to me. So, feel free to do another character assassination of the
> sub-human...
I can't remember that I've ever read such nonsense before.
--
Steffen A. Jakob | "Victory goes to the player who makes the
ste...@jakob.at | second-to-last mistake."
http://www.jakob.at/ | (Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower)
dit...@my-dejanews.com
> : Bob, since your source code is public, how much of it can be copied
> : into another program and have the new program still be legally
> : copyrightable? I guess this is analogous to copyright of song
> : material. There is a point at which too much copying is fraud but the
> : problem is where do the courts draw the line?
>
> Basically, _none_... but there is an exception (without the written
> permission of the author).
I think he was referring to the "right to quote a moderate amount of..." but
this does applies to music, books, and does not apply to source code: you
don't quote source code, you use it in another code. The only way to quote a
piece of source code is to, e.g., publish few lines of it in a magazine. That
is permittet: for educational purposes I could take Bob's code (if he first
shows it to me spontaneously) and publish say the declaration of the rotated
bitbard, to illustrate how to do such a thing. But one can't go much further.
And yes Bob's right: you cannot copy source code. One can implement the same
algorithm, or copy an interface (a famous trial won by Microsoft which was
sued by Apple for the creation of OS/2 [=windows 1], after Apple did copy the
windowing sytem from Xerox) but not reuse code. Please not that on the
contrary, it is permitted to reverse engeneer a code an modify it to better
fit to your need when it has to cowork wuith another piece of software you
wrote. This at least is permittet in the EU.
regards
Franz
--
SISSA/ISAS via Beirut, 2-4
I-34014 Trieste
remove_...@my-dejanews.com
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Bill Newton
TUESCHEN.MEDIZ...@t-online.de (Rolf Tueschen) wrote:
>Matey, The Stalker is to get you. Please make sure that your windows are
>closed.
'Smatter Rolfie boy ...........got 'you' have I?
GRRRRRRRR ...........RUFF!!
Quietly smiling.
Anders Thulin
Rolf Tueschen <TUESCHEN.MEDIZ...@t-online.de> wrote:
>No way. At first could you please explain why a free program is also
>copyrighted?
Any creative literary work, whether published or unpublished, made
available for a cost or not, is protected by copyright. This is clear
from the Berne Copyright Convention, the World Copyright Convention
and the copyright laws of most civilized nations.
Source code is regarded as such creative literary work. No legal
doubt about it, it seems.
Thus, Bob's code is protected by copyright, and very likely
regardless of whether he adds a copyright protection notice to it or
not.
That's one side of the matter.
There are other sides to it, but those are addressed in other
threads, it seems.
--
Anders Thulin Anders....@telia.se 013-23 55 32
Telia ProSoft AB, Teknikringen 6, S-583 30 Linkoping, Sweden
Robert Hyatt
: TUESCHEN.MEDIZ...@t-online.de (Rolf Tueschen) writes:
:> Albert Silver <sil...@unisys.com.br> wrote in
:> <36CB3957...@unisys.com.br>:
:>
:> >I'd just sue them. They have already 'copyrighted' the sweat and tears you have so
:> >benevolently allowed others to learn from and enjoy. You know that despite any
:> >gripes some people may have with you, I have no doubt *ALL* here would support you
:> >in this matter.
:>
:> No way. At first could you please explain why a free program is also
:> copyrighted? And then I remember well how Bob defended Ed who clearly
:> had stolen data in his Million Base. Although-- he surely didn't steal
:> it himself. But then Bob showed no interest for the owners in the INF
:> company at all.
:>
:> I would beg Bob and people like you to rethink this all over. Nothing
:> has happened until now. Already in Jakarta someone presented a crafty
:> clone without "permission". I wouldn't hold my breath that all that
:> won't go commercial anyway.
:>
:> Bob, you really take away something from your aura if you suddenly
:> behave like a sissy. You always play with open cards. Why discussing
:> evantualities? On dozens of pages? As if you had nothing better to do.
:> If someone really would present a crafty clone under the label of his
:> own without even mentioning Crafty then it's a relevamt cheat but has
:> nothing to do with copyright. It's impostordom then. And then you could
:> easily show the evidence.
:>
:> But your ideas, Bob, how could you copyright them? This seems not sound
:> to me. So, feel free to do another character assassination of the
:> sub-human...
: I can't remember that I've ever read such nonsense before.
: --
I've already explained the above. When you let your pet monkey(s)
get together with your computer, _anything_ can come out of that.
And very rarely will it be something 'good'. :)
Rolf Tueschen
<u31zjow...@elias.gams.co.at>:
>TUESCHEN.MEDIZ...@t-online.de (Rolf Tueschen) writes:
>>
>> But your ideas, Bob, how could you copyright them? This seems not sound
>> to me. So, feel free to do another character assassination of the
>> sub-human...
>I can't remember that I've ever read such nonsense before.
Before you make a clown out yourself, great operator, let me give you
the appropiate quote:
Message-ID: <79hldm$q3k$1...@juniper.cis.uab.edu>
Read this and then come back. Actually you are related with a guy who
writes that sort of shit. Go in Dejas and read it.
Rolf Tueschen
<7agvfq$um$1...@jupiter.linkoping.trab.se>:
>In article <7afcpt$duu$2...@news04.btx.dtag.de>,
>Rolf Tueschen <TUESCHEN.MEDIZ...@t-online.de> wrote:
>>No way. At first could you please explain why a free program is also
>>copyrighted?
> Any creative literary work, whether published or unpublished, made
>available for a cost or not, is protected by copyright. This is clear
>from the Berne Copyright Convention, the World Copyright Convention
>and the copyright laws of most civilized nations.
> Source code is regarded as such creative literary work. No legal
>doubt about it, it seems.
> Thus, Bob's code is protected by copyright, and very likely
>regardless of whether he adds a copyright protection notice to it or
>not.
> That's one side of the matter.
> There are other sides to it, but those are addressed in other
>threads, it seems.
Thanks so far.
Let me describe what I thought. Please show me what is wrong.
Bob Hyatt gives away a free program. For free. With full publication of
the whole source code.
My idea was, that people could well take parts or even the complete
code, ad something relevant or not, and present that as "their"
product. Not that I think this could be clever because such people
wouldn't be taken very serious. But why should that be forbidden?
What does that have to do with copyright?
NB that I see that Bob is the original owner. But didn't he give it away
by publishing the complete code?
Note also that we had originally a different topic. My opinion was that
although Bob gave it away for free he could well make money on other
fields. _With_ or _on_ the base of the free program. I think we don't
need to discuss that fame and such things have their financial
relevance. BTW I did never mean it as attack. I only wanted to know the
"whole" truth, well repecting the very private sphere. But I couldn't
understand that Bob really presented all that as if money wouldn't count
or wouldn't be at stake.
With respect for privacy I wanted to challenge Bob on his apparently
naive blue-eyed presentation.
Steffen A. Jakob
> sp...@jakob.at (Steffen A. Jakob) wrote in
> <u31zjow...@elias.gams.co.at>:
>
> >TUESCHEN.MEDIZ...@t-online.de (Rolf Tueschen) writes:
>
> >>
> >> But your ideas, Bob, how could you copyright them? This seems not sound
> >> to me. So, feel free to do another character assassination of the
> >> sub-human...
>
> >I can't remember that I've ever read such nonsense before.
>
> Before you make a clown out yourself, great operator, let me give you
"great operator"?
> the appropiate quote:
>
> Message-ID: <79hldm$q3k$1...@juniper.cis.uab.edu>
>
> Read this and then come back. Actually you are related with a guy who
> writes that sort of shit. Go in Dejas and read it.
Actually I removed my kill file by accident and had to see that
nothing has changed here. You don't need to answer. I won't see it.
Robert Hyatt
: Anders....@telia.se (Anders Thulin) wrote in
: <7agvfq$um$1...@jupiter.linkoping.trab.se>:
: Thanks so far.
Because international copyright law makes this illegal. Is that a
satisfactory reason?
: What does that have to do with copyright?
: NB that I see that Bob is the original owner. But didn't he give it away
: by publishing the complete code?
Nope... you keep saying that. Why don't you ask an attorney, rather
that making incorrect assumptions? Oh yes.. you really don't like to deal
with real data, facts, and the like, correct? Better for interpretation,
innuendo, and 'but I meant'...
: Note also that we had originally a different topic. My opinion was that
: although Bob gave it away for free he could well make money on other
: fields. _With_ or _on_ the base of the free program. I think we don't
: need to discuss that fame and such things have their financial
: relevance. BTW I did never mean it as attack. I only wanted to know the
: "whole" truth, well repecting the very private sphere. But I couldn't
: understand that Bob really presented all that as if money wouldn't count
: or wouldn't be at stake.
It wasn't, it isn't, and it won't be. Whether you like it or not is of
no consequence to anyone here.
: With respect for privacy I wanted to challenge Bob on his apparently
: naive blue-eyed presentation.
And you went down in flames...
Rolf Tueschen
>Actually I removed my kill file by accident and had to see that
>nothing has changed here. You don't need to answer. I won't see it.
>--
>Steffen A. Jakob | "Victory goes to the player who makes the
>ste...@jakob.at | second-to-last mistake."
>http://www.jakob.at/ | (Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower)
Do you now understand why I called you great operator? :)
I like people who make grat importance out of their role as operator.
Most of them on universitary hardware.
It was just a little tongue-in-cheek.
But to inform you because you once contacted me in that same impolite
manner via email. You don't want to communicate. You want to be admired
as a real expert. That is not the way usenet is functioning. Big sigs
have no relevance if you excude fascist shit like Mr. Hyatt.
Is that so difficult to understand?
Robert Hyatt
: sp...@jakob.at (Steffen A. Jakob) wrote in
: <u3zp6bv...@elias.gams.co.at>:
:>Actually I removed my kill file by accident and had to see that
:>nothing has changed here. You don't need to answer. I won't see it.
:>--
:>Steffen A. Jakob | "Victory goes to the player who makes the
:>ste...@jakob.at | second-to-last mistake."
:>http://www.jakob.at/ | (Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower)
: Do you now understand why I called you great operator? :)
: I like people who make grat importance out of their role as operator.
: Most of them on universitary hardware.
Steffen isn't at a 'university'. And he isn't an 'operator' he is
actively writing his own chess program. Shows just how much (or
really how little) you know about anything, except the view of the
inside of your large intestines.
: It was just a little tongue-in-cheek.
Or perhaps 'head in butt"???
: But to inform you because you once contacted me in that same impolite
: manner via email. You don't want to communicate. You want to be admired
: as a real expert. That is not the way usenet is functioning. Big sigs
: have no relevance if you excude fascist shit like Mr. Hyatt.
Somehow, coming from you, something 'bad' seems to be a compliment,
because your view of the world is so twisted, in your unrelenting
admiration of WWII era Nazi Germany.
Rolf Tueschen
<7ahdm0$j46$2...@juniper.cis.uab.edu>:
>: Thanks so far.
If you want to hear my answer, then no it's not satisfaCTORY FOR ME;
BECAUSE I want to understand the reason.
>: What does that have to do with copyright?
>: NB that I see that Bob is the original owner. But didn't he give it away
>: by publishing the complete code?
>Nope... you keep saying that.
Nope, I keep asking that. Do you know the difference between a question
and a statement?
>Why don't you ask an attorney, rather
>that making incorrect assumptions?
Because I want to find out myself. Somehow you must have something very
green behind your ears, Mr. Hyatt. Like a Greenhorn. You can't
understand that I did never take sides against you in that topic. I
can't understand it until now. Can you spell honest question? Can you
spell honesty _at all_???
Relax, Bob, we#re still on topic and there I respect you as you know. No
reason to become wildman gimmikorsakow.
>Oh yes.. you really don't like to deal
>with real data, facts, and the like, correct? Better for interpretation,
>innuendo, and 'but I meant'...
As far as usenet is concerned, yes, we have more interpretations to
discuss than facts. You make progress! :))
>: Note also that we had originally a different topic. My opinion was that
>: although Bob gave it away for free he could well make money on other
>: fields. _With_ or _on_ the base of the free program. I think we don't
>: need to discuss that fame and such things have their financial
>: relevance. BTW I did never mean it as attack. I only wanted to know the
>: "whole" truth, well repecting the very private sphere. But I couldn't
>: understand that Bob really presented all that as if money wouldn't count
>: or wouldn't be at stake.
>It wasn't, it isn't, and it won't be.
How about the conjunctive in English? :)
> Whether you like it or not is of
>no consequence to anyone here.
It's not a question of likening. It's a question of interpretation of
the truth.
>: With respect for privacy I wanted to challenge Bob on his apparently
>: naive blue-eyed presentation.
>And you went down in flames...
In the woods of Alabama again? Tell me more.
Still daydreaming?
Rolf Tueschen
>Steffen isn't at a 'university'. And he isn't an 'operator' he is
>actively writing his own chess program. Shows just how much (or
>really how little) you know about anything, except the view of the
>inside of your large intestines.
Who was the operator of BRAUSE?
>Somehow, coming from you, something 'bad' seems to be a compliment,
>because your view of the world is so twisted, in your unrelenting
>admiration of WWII era Nazi Germany.
I have no views that could be called fascist. Interesting that exactly
<I should whorship WWII and the Nazis. And even more I ask myself what
all this has to do with computerchess, you fach-idiot.
Rufus T. Firefly
TUESCHEN.MEDIZ...@t-online.de (Rolf Tueschen) wrote:
> No way. At first could you please explain why a free program is
> also copyrighted?
We can now add the idea of copyright to the list of things that Rolf
doesn't understand, but thinks he does.
Rolf, if you want people to stop thinking you're a nut, you had better
stop thinking -- and writing -- like one.
Robert Hyatt
: Robert Hyatt <hy...@crafty.cis.uab.edu> wrote in
: <7ahlmg$lgf$4...@juniper.cis.uab.edu>:
:>Steffen isn't at a 'university'. And he isn't an 'operator' he is
:>actively writing his own chess program. Shows just how much (or
:>really how little) you know about anything, except the view of the
:>inside of your large intestines.
: Who was the operator of BRAUSE?
The person who _wrote_ Brause, maybe? Or didn't you pick up on that.
Being an 'operator' implies he is somewhat beneath being a programmer.
He does _both_.
:>Somehow, coming from you, something 'bad' seems to be a compliment,
:>because your view of the world is so twisted, in your unrelenting
:>admiration of WWII era Nazi Germany.
: I have no views that could be called fascist. Interesting that exactly
: <I should whorship WWII and the Nazis. And even more I ask myself what
: all this has to do with computerchess, you fach-idiot.
I ask myself that every time I read one of your posts. I have tried to be
generous by assuming you had a monkey that was doing most of your 'writing'.
If I am wrong, you are _really_ in dire difficulty.
Robert Hyatt
: In article <7afcpt$duu$2...@news04.btx.dtag.de>,
You are doing this wrong. You want to enumerate the 'shorter' list,
_not_ the longer one. So if you want to make lists, make a list of the
things that he _does_ understand.
You ought to be able to finish that project in oh, maybe 2-3 seconds or
so? :)
Rolf Tueschen
>Rolf Tueschen <TUESCHEN.MEDIZ...@t-online.de> wrote:
>: Who was the operator of BRAUSE?
>The person who _wrote_ Brause, maybe? Or didn't you pick up on that.
>Being an 'operator' implies he is somewhat beneath being a programmer.
>He does _both_.
Pardon me, this is a cheat. Another one.
I read his _own_ claim that he let run his own (constructed/written)
opening book on a crafty clone. I don't see why he should be a
programmer of a chess program ...
Robert Hyatt
: Robert Hyatt <hy...@crafty.cis.uab.edu> wrote in
: <7ai5r6$qen$2...@juniper.cis.uab.edu>:
That's because you are stupid beyond belief. He has a program that
he has written. It is running on ICC under the name 'hossa'. If you
look around you will find a _lot_ of things you don't know. This is
just the tip of the iceberg.
Steffen A. Jakob
> Robert Hyatt <hy...@crafty.cis.uab.edu> wrote in
> <7ai5r6$qen$2...@juniper.cis.uab.edu>:
>
> >Rolf Tueschen <TUESCHEN.MEDIZ...@t-online.de> wrote:
> >: Who was the operator of BRAUSE?
>
> >The person who _wrote_ Brause, maybe? Or didn't you pick up on that.
> >Being an 'operator' implies he is somewhat beneath being a programmer.
> >He does _both_.
>
> Pardon me, this is a cheat. Another one.
>
> I read his _own_ claim that he let run his own (constructed/written)
> opening book on a crafty clone. I don't see why he should be a
> programmer of a chess program ...
Brause and Hossa are two totally different things.
I use[d] Brause which is a crafty clone to test some of my analysis
(mainly the halloween attack in the 4 knights game).
Hossa is my own program which is no cheat (it's not one of these progs
which start immediately with a blitz rating of 2800... Bob knows
best). You are totally uninformed! You should concetrate a bit about
the topic of this newsgroup: computer chess. Maybe then you wouldn't
make a fool of yourself so often.
http://www.jakob.at/steffen/hossa.html
Greetings,
Steffen
P.S.: I really have to restore my kill file.
mongrel
Rolf Tueschen wrote:
> Robert Hyatt <hy...@crafty.cis.uab.edu> wrote in
> <7ai5r6$qen$2...@juniper.cis.uab.edu>:
>
> >Rolf Tueschen <TUESCHEN.MEDIZ...@t-online.de> wrote:
> >: Who was the operator of BRAUSE?
>
> >The person who _wrote_ Brause, maybe? Or didn't you pick up on that.
> >Being an 'operator' implies he is somewhat beneath being a programmer.
> >He does _both_.
>
> Pardon me, this is a cheat. Another one.
Rolf is again the stormtrooper-fascist of the newsgroup and spreads the
Entmenschlichen. My apology , but let us check in a useful way, as we can
explain to Rolf the "entmenschlichende" quality of his unkind words. Yes?
"Dehumanizing" is the word understood by all, and I cannot explain it to
you. Especially, I will not perform a "virtual" psychiatric diagnosis
(except for myself), so I must speak in normal language: It is part of
Rolf's neverending "massacre of the innocents", because noone of honor has
stood up to show the better way. But I will, and be " crucified " by the
powers that be, represented by Rolf above all, and his bootlicking
disciples.
Rolf, you have all the rights in the world to show your lack of education.
But I'm sure you will never understand why you shouldn't make use of that
right in such extensions -- with such character assassinations. But I have
a serious question for you. Why do you think to have informations about
this cheat? Could you explain the details? Would be interesting. I fear you
will to learn the same lesson, others already had enjoyed two times. You
guys are so smart and clever. But then you react like a Pavlovian dog ...
Sad thing. You have a hidden agenda. probably with a pseudonym to protect
your intentions. You get it?
I beg the readers of the chess groups to make their own conclusions.
Rolf Tueschen
>> I don't see why he should be a
>> programmer of a chess program ...
>Brause and Hossa are two totally different things.
Yes. But may it be allowed to inform you that here in rgcc, and that's
the group we are talking, a program "hossa" was unfortunately never
mentioned before. At least not to my knowledge. But I have absolutely
no problem to accept that you are then also a programmer. Many are here
programmers. As a newbie in all that I never had problems with that. On
the contrary I like it when programmers talk here about their programs.
My knowledge was only about BRAUSE and I remebered a webpage I saw 2
years ago.
I can't help it, but if you think it's a real must to know. But I don't
know why on rgcc that should be known. NB that all I said to Mr. Hyatt
was based on the assumption that you were only working with BRAUSE.
My fault. I can't know all the details outside rgcc. But to you
personally here in public I want still to make my apologies because a
careless reader might have understood my 'cheat' accusation to Mr. Hyatt
as a direct attack on you. This was not the case.
Perhaps time can let forget you.
But let me tell you that the actual threats against me by fascist shit
is honestly causing me more pain. Very personally, so that I think a
little lack of knowledge of a newbie isn't really a crime compared with
the fascist atrocities against me. Please try to understand that,
please.
>Hossa is my own program which is no cheat (it's not one of these progs
>which start immediately with a blitz rating of 2800... Bob knows
>best). You are totally uninformed! You should concetrate a bit about
>the topic of this newsgroup: computer chess. Maybe then you wouldn't
>make a fool of yourself so often.
How can you say that? You were only right if you could show me where
Hossa was mentioned before here on rgcc. Then I could still have
overlooked it, but at least I had had the possibility of knowing it.
Could you give the post where Hossa is mentioned?
Rolf Tueschen
>That's because you are stupid beyond belief. He has a program that
>he has written. It is running on ICC under the name 'hossa'. If you
>look around you will find a _lot_ of things you don't know. This is
>just the tip of the iceberg.
I must have missed something. Is it a crime in your eyes, comparable to
your fascist shit of gasolining and dismembering people and of inviting
me to undergo enforced euthanasia, if I didn't know something out of
ICC? Of course I can't know all the details.But then, I would not be
allowed to write that with BRAUSE it would be a cheat to call the guy a
programmer of a chess program...? That was my only point.
But I think it was decent that I still apologized for a possible false
perception someone might have got through my post.
I for one have _no_ problem to accept that I know that I know nothing.
I'm not the imposter here. And also the 'fach-idiot' is firmly held by
someone else. Know what I mean?
So, the question is still open, who's stupid beyond belief. For me you
are still a hot candidate. But with decent apologies you could come back
to normal.
Robert Hyatt
: Robert Hyatt <hy...@crafty.cis.uab.edu> wrote in
: <7aio4a$kk$1...@juniper.cis.uab.edu>:
:>That's because you are stupid beyond belief. He has a program that
:>he has written. It is running on ICC under the name 'hossa'. If you
:>look around you will find a _lot_ of things you don't know. This is
:>just the tip of the iceberg.
: I must have missed something. Is it a crime in your eyes, comparable to
: your fascist shit of gasolining and dismembering people and of inviting
: me to undergo enforced euthanasia, if I didn't know something out of
: ICC? Of course I can't know all the details.But then, I would not be
: allowed to write that with BRAUSE it would be a cheat to call the guy a
: programmer of a chess program...? That was my only point.
Steffen has mentioned his program in several places. Including here.
Why you didn't see it I don't know. But _you_ made the statement, then
followed up with another 'declaration' when I pointed out your error.
As I said, the list of things you do know is far shorter than the list
of things you don't know. I know you'd like to hide behind that "I didn't
know about xxx". But if you don't "know" then isn't it better to remain
silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all
doubt?
: But I think it was decent that I still apologized for a possible false
: perception someone might have got through my post.
: I for one have _no_ problem to accept that I know that I know nothing.
: I'm not the imposter here. And also the 'fach-idiot' is firmly held by
: someone else. Know what I mean?
Please lock the door to your computer room. Or get rid of the
monkey.
: So, the question is still open, who's stupid beyond belief. For me you
: are still a hot candidate. But with decent apologies you could come back
: to normal.
Robert Hyatt
: sp...@jakob.at (Steffen A. Jakob) wrote in
: <u3vhgyv...@elias.gams.co.at>:
:>> I don't see why he should be a
:>> programmer of a chess program ...
:>Brause and Hossa are two totally different things.
: Yes. But may it be allowed to inform you that here in rgcc, and that's
: the group we are talking, a program "hossa" was unfortunately never
: mentioned before. At least not to my knowledge. But I have absolutely
: no problem to accept that you are then also a programmer. Many are here
: programmers. As a newbie in all that I never had problems with that. On
: the contrary I like it when programmers talk here about their programs.
: My knowledge was only about BRAUSE and I remebered a webpage I saw 2
: years ago.
Hossa was never mentioned before? What about this:
>>>Hi all!
>>>
>>>I implemented a function for my engine "Hossa" which creates a nice
>>>HTML output for test suites automatically. This includes GIF images of
>>>the test positions.
>>>
>>>I make the output (without the search information of Hossa) for the
>>>suite "WinAtChess" public. If you are interested I can also add some
>>>other suites. Have a look at
>>>http://www.jakob.at/steffen/chess/tests/wac.html and give me some
>>>feedback.
>>>
>>>: I can't help it, but if you think it's a real must to know. But I don't
>>>: know why on rgcc that should be known. NB that all I said to Mr. Hyatt
>>>: was based on the assumption that you were only working with BRAUSE.
All you had to do was go to deja and search r.g.c.c for 'hossa'. But
of course, it was _never_ mentioned here in the past.
: My fault. I can't know all the details outside rgcc. But to you
: personally here in public I want still to make my apologies because a
: careless reader might have understood my 'cheat' accusation to Mr. Hyatt
: as a direct attack on you. This was not the case.
It was a direct show of ignorance. you mentioned Steffen. I pointed out
he _was_ a programmer. You chose to argue rather than to ask why I would
say that. _now_ you know. Or maybe not, as the case may be...
: Perhaps time can let forget you.
: But let me tell you that the actual threats against me by fascist shit
: is honestly causing me more pain. Very personally, so that I think a
: little lack of knowledge of a newbie isn't really a crime compared with
: the fascist atrocities against me. Please try to understand that,
: please.
I suppose if you want to continue to refer to me as "fascist shit" that
I should start referring to you as "rolf the dipshit"...
suits me. if that's the sort of language you want us to use...
:>Hossa is my own program which is no cheat (it's not one of these progs
:>which start immediately with a blitz rating of 2800... Bob knows
:>best). You are totally uninformed! You should concetrate a bit about
:>the topic of this newsgroup: computer chess. Maybe then you wouldn't
:>make a fool of yourself so often.
: How can you say that? You were only right if you could show me where
: Hossa was mentioned before here on rgcc. Then I could still have
: overlooked it, but at least I had had the possibility of knowing it.
: Could you give the post where Hossa is mentioned?
I gave it above. If you search deja for 'hossa', this is post #7 of
12 where it was mentioned. 4 of them are by me responding to you here
however.
some...@somewhere.org
The most interesting thing I saw in Rolf's postings is the following header:
>> X-Complaints-To: ab...@t-online.de
Hmmm... I wonder what they may consider a violation of their terms of service?
Rolf Tueschen
> I know you'd like to hide behind that "I didn't
>know about xxx". But if you don't "know" then isn't it better to remain
>silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all
>doubt?
Bob, I know for almost sure that you are a Professor. So, please behave
like a Professor! The most important thing for such a Professor is his
thinking. So, do think!
You want to prove me wrong. I don't remain silent although I don't
"know".
Now, could you please think this all over again? Can't you see that it's
almost impossible for a normal human being to always behave properly if
he does know so little? As I told you before, the only thing _I_ know
for sure, that is my knowledge that I know nothing! Now, think about
that brilliant scandal!!!
And please, Bob, relax and try to get some minutes of sleep during your
long stage online ... You know what I mean?
Rolf Tueschen
>Rolf Tueschen <TUESCHEN.MEDIZ...@t-online.de> wrote:
>: Yes. But may it be allowed to inform you that here in rgcc, and that's
>: the group we are talking, a program "hossa" was unfortunately never
>: mentioned before. At least not to my knowledge.
>Hossa was never mentioned before? What about this:
Bob, didn't I recommand you to buy some new spectacles?! It's awful bad
reading ... And you are a Professor! You know what I mean?
CATSoft Software Solutions
> like a Professor! The most important thing for such a Professor is his
> thinking. So, do think!
You imply that only "professors" think :-)
The only important thing for a "professor" is the certificate on the
wall, or the next research grant.
Dann Corbit
news:VA.0000000d.00adf0f7@oemcomputer...
What a horrible and crass thing to say. Besides, you left out "publish or
perish" and "tenure".
;-)
It also means (at the very least) the one with such a title attached has
attained a Ph.D. diploma.
Meanwhile, back at the farm, Jeb wondered about playing chess with
computers.
--
C-FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
"The C-FAQ Book" ISBN 0-201-84519-9
C.A.P. Newsgroup http://www.dejanews.com/~c_a_p
C.A.P. FAQ: ftp://38.168.214.175/pub/Chess%20Analysis%20Project%20FAQ.htm
Robert Hyatt
:> Bob, I know for almost sure that you are a Professor. So, please behave
:> like a Professor! The most important thing for such a Professor is his
:> thinking. So, do think!
: You imply that only "professors" think :-)
: The only important thing for a "professor" is the certificate on the
: wall, or the next research grant.
Not always true. Students in my courses might give you a different
perspective. Some of us _enjoy_ teaching young folks about the mysteries
of computer architecture, operating systems, parallel programming,
artificial intelligence, and such. I know I wouldn't still be doing
this after 30 years if I didn't enjoy it, because I have had much better
job offers from industrial enterprises, after doing consulting work for them
on occasion.
Dann Corbit
news:7avmts$718$1...@juniper.cis.uab.edu...
>CATSoft Software Solutions <cat...@freekuk.com> wrote:
>:> Bob, I know for almost sure that you are a Professor. So, please behave
>:> like a Professor! The most important thing for such a Professor is his
>:> thinking. So, do think!
>
>: You imply that only "professors" think :-)
>
>: The only important thing for a "professor" is the certificate on the
>: wall, or the next research grant.
>
>Not always true. Students in my courses might give you a different
>perspective. Some of us _enjoy_ teaching young folks about the mysteries
>of computer architecture, operating systems, parallel programming,
>artificial intelligence, and such. I know I wouldn't still be doing
>this after 30 years if I didn't enjoy it, because I have had much better
>job offers from industrial enterprises, after doing consulting work for
them
>on occasion.
I taught the C programming language at a small college in Bremerton
Washington. It was one of the most enjoyable jobs I ever had. I was
offered a permanent position there, but unfortunately, I make four times as
much in industry (I'm afraid I am a bit of a mercenary). I am sure that Dr.
Hyatt could do the same if he so chose. It is a strange society where we
pay people 100 million dollars to play a kid's game and pay our teachers,
who are shaping the lives of our children, far less than they can easily
make elsewhere. My sister got a Master's degree in English and graduated
Suma Cum Laude. She worked as a teacher starting at around $25,000. She
got double the money to go into industry as a tech. writer. She is back
teaching now, because she enjoys it so much. My mother also got a teaching
degree, and my father taught high school biology for a time. So maybe it is
in the blood a bit. I plan to teach when I retire from 'regular' work.
I think that teaching is probably the most altruistic profession. Certainly
the noblest and most important.
Let's see, how can we tie this back to computer chess? Ah, I have it. Dr.
Hyatt's love of teaching is also expressed in his posts to r.g.c.c. and ccc.
Rather than hide his results and try to profit from them in commercial
ventures or other selfish measures, he is ready to share and even to
explain. I have at least one hundred emails from Dr. Hyatt, patiently
explaining points about computer chess. Now, If I were to pay him
consultant's fees for all the effort he has expended on my behalf, it would
be a pretty penny.
I find the personal attacks against Dr. Hyatt, Ed, and others who only try
to teach and to share petty, low, mean-spirited and shameful. It is simply
unbelievable to me that someone actually tried to attack by creation of a
defaming web site. Think of the time and energy that went into a think like
that. It is a perversion. Sort of like people who write a virus. They
can't earn a dime from all that effort. It produces nothing of value, and
the only outcome is pain, anguish and loss. The product of a sick mind.
CATSoft Software Solutions
> What a horrible and crass thing to say. Besides, you left out "publish or
> perish" and "tenure".
I know I apologise for upsetting any sensibilities. However, it has been
known to happen that some research institutes are more interested in the
research grant than in the scientific process. Thankfully, the majority, are
dedicated professionals without whom the world would be worse off.
CATSoft Software Solutions
> Not always true.
I know!
It was mainly a "tongue-in-cheek" comment, I apologise if I caused any
offence.
CATSoft Software Solutions
> Let's see, how can we tie this back to computer chess? Ah, I have it. Dr.
> Hyatt's love of teaching is also expressed in his posts to r.g.c.c. and ccc.
> Rather than hide his results and try to profit from them in commercial
> ventures or other selfish measures, he is ready to share and even to
> explain. I have at least one hundred emails from Dr. Hyatt, patiently
> explaining points about computer chess. Now, If I were to pay him
> consultant's fees for all the effort he has expended on my behalf, it would
> be a pretty penny.
So much of this is true, least we forget it in the melee that constitutes
discussion within this NG - I also contribute to the melee but this is more to
do with trying to "think differently" rather than attack anyone in particular.
I am the one who will question "why is the stop light red and not green" :-)
Dan Airinen
quite coward to use someones invetions!I mean would you try
to copy Linux,and make it Vinux!
Robert Hyatt wrote:
> This post is a carryover from the computer chess club, for those not
> reading things over there. First, some background.
>
> A while back, I encountered a new program on one of the chess servers
> (either FICS or chess.net, I don't recall which) that claimed to be
> running a program 'voyager'. The public information on Voyager is "A
> new program based on fuzzy logic". That should have been a warning
> flag, of course.
>
> I found this program quite strong, but didn't pay any attention until
> someone else asked me about it (they had gotten a copy somehow). I
> asked them to send it to me and I would look. I was _very_ surprised
> at what I found. The following is part of the analysis I did on the
> executable for voyager version 2.05:
>
> First, the binary files used by crafty (book.bin, books.bin, position.bin)
> are _identical_. Byte for byte. File for file. The filenames are different,
> but the content is not. Ditto for book.lrn and position.lrn. They are still
> there, but the ascii stuff in 'em is identical to current crafty.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> The stuff below was obtained by doing a 'strings voyager.exe >xx' to
> get the character strings in the file. There are many taken directly
> from various modules, as given below. My comments always preceed a
> string of "-----------------------"
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> im Buch 0.0s Haeufigkeit %3d%%
> spielbare Zuege, die nicht im Buch sind
> spielbare Zuege
> Im Buch
>
> Typical crafty output. 'in book' 0.0 seconds search time, etc...
> --------------------------------------------------------
> usage: book [option] [filename] [maxply] [minplay]
> choose from %d best moves.
> usage: book width <n>
> width
> at least %d times.
> search book moves if the most popular was not played
> usage: book trigger <n>
> trigger
> play best book line after search.
> choose from book moves randomly (using weights.)
> valid options are 0-1.
> usage: book random <n>
> random
> %s elapsed.
> time used: %s cpu
> longest cluster of moves was %d.
> deepest book line was %d plies.
> book contains %d unique positions.
> discarded %d moves (win/lose=%.1f%%).
> discarded %d moves (minplayed=%d).
> discarded %d moves (maxply=%d).
> found %d errors during parsing.
> parsed %d moves (%d games).
> sort.%d
> ERROR! write failed, disk probably full.
> Unable to malloc() index block, aborting
> merging sorted files (%d) (10K/dot)
> S <done>
> ERROR! move %d: %s is illegal (line %d)
> 0123456789/-.*
> (%d)
> 1/2-1/2
> esult
> Site
> end-of-file reached
> parsing pgn move file (10000 moves/dot)
> open.vbs
> Unable to malloc() sort buffer, aborting
> file %s does not exist.
>
> all strings that you can directly find in source file book.c for
> crafty...
> --------------------------------------------------------
> reject
> accept
> usage: book mask accept|reject value
> mask
> Buch Datei ist aktiviert!
> %s/open.vbs
> %s/buch.vbs
> Buch Datei ist deaktiviert!
> maxply [minplay] [win/lose %]
> usage: book|books create filename
> create
> ERROR. unable to open sort output file
> out of memory. aborting.
> unable to open sort.%d file, may be too many files open.
>
> more strings from book.c
> --------------------------------------------------------
> 2.05
> ????.??.??
> Gegner
> Voyager 2.05
> ./TB
> EPD Fatal error: %s.
> Switch fault detected.
>
> seems to claim it is version 2.05. Also has the normal "tbpath"
> constant used in crafty.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> resign
> refreq
> refcom
> noop
> hmvc
> fmvn
> draw_reject
> draw_offer
> draw_claim
> draw_accept
> Black
> White
> fault
>
> 'noop' is a killer above. That is a special command added a couple of
> years ago before I rewrote my input to use non-buffered I/O. Xboard and
> winboard send commands in 'threes' (move/time xxx/otim xxx) which made
> me do three reads to get them. I then had to make my custom interface
> send three commands each time it needed to tell me something. I used
> 'noop' as a 'dummy command' to make up the missing commands to get three
> over to avoid hanging. I doubt anyone would add such a command, and call
> it 'noop' by mere chance.
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> KQQQK
> KQQRK
> KQQBK
> KQQNK
> KQQPK
> KQRRK
> KQRBK
> KQRNK
> KQRPK
> KQBBK
> KQBNK
> KQBPK
> KQNNK
> KQNPK
> KQPPK
> KRRRK
> KRRBK
> KRRNK
> KRRPK
> KRBBK
> KRBNK
> KRBPK
> KRNNK
> KRNPK
> KRPPK
> KBBBK
> KBBNK
> KBBPK
> KBNNK
> KBNPK
> KBPPK
> KNNNK
> KNNPK
> KNPPK
> KPPPK
> KQQKQ
> KQQKR
> KQQKB
> KQQKN
> KQQKP
> KQRKQ
> KQRKR
> KQRKB
> KQRKN
> KQRKP
> KQBKQ
> KQBKR
> KQBKB
> KQBKN
> KQBKP
> KQNKQ
> KQNKR
> KQNKB
> KQNKN
> KQNKP
> KQPKQ
> KQPKR
> KQPKB
> KQPKN
> KQPKP
> KRRKQ
> KRRKR
> KRRKB
> KRRKN
> KRRKP
> KRBKQ
> KRBKR
> KRBKB
> KRBKN
> KRBKP
> KRNKQ
> KRNKR
> KRNKB
> KRNKN
> KRNKP
> KRPKQ
> KRPKR
> KRPKB
> KRPKN
> KRPKP
> KBBKQ
> KBBKR
> KBBKB
> KBBKN
> KBBKP
> KBNKQ
> KBNKR
> KBNKB
> KBNKN
> KBNKP
> KBPKQ
> KBPKR
> KBPKB
> KBPKN
> KBPKP
> KNNKQ
> KNNKR
> KNNKB
> KNNKN
> KNNKP
> KNPKQ
> KNPKR
> KNPKB
> KNPKN
> KNPKP
> KPPKQ
> KPPKR
> KPPKB
> KPPKN
> KPPKP
> KQQK
> KQRK
> KQBK
> KQNK
> KQPK
> KRRK
> KRBK
> KRNK
> KRPK
> KBBK
> KBNK
> KBPK
> KNNK
> KNPK
> KPPK
> KQKQ
> KQKR
> KQKB
> KQKN
> KQKP
> KRKR
> KRKB
> KRKN
> KRKP
> KBKB
> KBKN
> KBKP
> KNKN
> KNKP
> KPKP
> .tbb
> .tbw
>
> egtb file names in Edward's code.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> EPDTBInitTBID
> EG fault: a problem occurred during %s processing
> EG fault: can't locate valid EG command
> This command takes one parameter.
> Can't open %s for writing
> Can't open %s for reading
> This command takes two parameters
> Centipawn evaluation: %hd
> %s can be mated in %hd move%s.
> %s can mate in %hd move%s.
> The position is a draw with best play.
> The position score was located in a tablebase file.
> %s can checkmate in one move with %s.
> Position is drawn: insufficient mating material.
> %s is stalemated.
> %s is checkmated.
> No certain evaluation is available.
> This position is illegal.
> This command takes no parameters.
> This command is not yet implemented.
> Duplex slave mode end
> Duplex slave mode begin
> EPDCommHandler: refcom fault
> h%05hd.pml
> c%05hd.pgn
> No moves are available.
> There is 1 move available.
> There are %hd moves available.
> Unknown tag name; available tag names are:
> Enumeration to depth %ld totals %ld
> This command takes three parameters
> Press <return> for more command help
> %s: %s
> -------------------------------
> Available EPD glue command list
> WARP: %s
> PHASER: TESTINGFILE: %ld
> JANEWAY:
> FEHLER!!
> WARP:
> PFLC: record %ld: cook: %s
> unsol mean node frequency: %.2f Hz
> unsol acs: %ld mean unsol acs: %.2f
> unsol acn: %ld mean unsol acn: %.2f
> unsol acd: %ld mean unsol acd: %.2f
> unsol: %ld unsol percent: %.2f
> solve mean node frequency: %.2f Hz
> solve acs: %ld mean solve acs: %.2f
> solve acn: %ld mean solve acn: %.2f
> solve acd: %ld mean solve acd: %.2f
> solve: %ld solve percent: %.2f
> total mean node frequency: %.2f Hz
> total acs: %ld mean total acs: %.2f
> total acn: %ld mean total acn: %.2f
> total acd: %ld mean total acd: %.2f
> total: %ld
> EPD glue developer testing
> Set PGN tag pair <tag-name> to <value>
> Save PGN game to <file>
> Show EPD four fields for the current position
> Score benchmark EPD results from <file>
> Purge EPD <opcode> from <file1> to <file2>
> Locate mating cooks in result <file>
> Analyze EPD data from <file1> to <file2>
> Repair EPD data from <file1> to <file2>
> Normalize EPD data from <file1> to <file2>
> No operation
> Display more help for <command>
> Load EPD record from <file> <line-number>
> Load PGN game from <file>
> Slave to Argus at <hostname> and <portnumber>
> Display EPD glue command descriptions
> Enumerate to <depth> from <file1> to <file2>
> Display PGN tag pair <tag-name> value
> Display PGN Seven Tag Roster
> Display SAN move list
> Display game using PGN
> Slave to Duplex using <pipefile-basename>
> Slave to ICS at <hostname> and <portnumber>
> Display certain score for the current position
> Fix <file1> data for Bookup input <file2>
> Append PGN game to <file>
> epdtest
> epdstpv
> epdspgn
> epdshow
> epdscor
> epdpfop
> epdpflc
> epdpfga
> epdpfdr
> epdpfdn
> epdnoop
> epdmore
> epdlrec
> epdlpgn
> epdlink
> epdhelp
> epdenum
> epddtpv
> epddstr
> epddsml
> epddpgn
> epdcomm
> epdcics
> epdcert
> epdbfix
> epdapgn
>
> OK.. They copied all the epd stuff. But it is Edward's code and is
> public domain... with the usual copyleft license.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> malloc() failed, not enough memory.
> history_filename
> log_filename
> Nichts zum weitermachen, Sir!
> lese %s/willi.log
> %s/willi.log
> %s/rudi.log
> position
> %s/janeway.lrn
> Lernfunktion deaktiviert!
> %s/ds9.lrn
> Buchlernen abgeschaltet!
> %s/voy1.lrn
>
> filenames normally used are game.nnn, log.nnn, book.lrn, etc. slight
> changes. But not much of a change.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> %s/book.lrn
> clear
> %d insgesamt gelernte Stellungen
> Hinzugefuegt wurden %d gelernte Stellungen!
> [%d %d %d]
> %c%c
> %c
> setboard
> [Datum "%4d.%02d.%02d"]
> ,;{}
> FEHLER!!!
> unable to open position learning file [%s/position.bin].
> setposition
> %s/position.bin
> unable to open position learning file [%s/position.lrn].
> %s/position.lrn
> (%d %d %d)
> gelernte Stellung, voyager=%d wert=%d
> %s [%d %d %d]
>
> All the above strings can be found in learn.c and init.c... (except for
> the bits of German of course. :) )
> --------------------------------------------------------
> ANTICOMPUTER-Funktion implantiert
>
> Funny. I have a variable that says 'if playing a computer, don't
> diddle around with the draw score based on time left, and so forth./
> Seems they do this too?
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Voyager V%s (c) 1998 by G.Mueller CH
> Dieser Befehl ist der Voyager unbekannt!
> voyager.ini
> Unbekannter Befehl!
> Das ist ein unbekannter Befehl!
> path
> Huch, da waren wohl die Borg am Werk!!! Normal %d
> bad move from hash table, ply=%d
> %s
> %2i %s%7s
>
> My output format, exactly...
>
> Interesting that voyager has a (copyright) mentioned above. IE you can
> take source that is already copyrighted and then copyright it yourself?
> Interesting take on international law.
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> [FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR b KQkq - 0 1"
> [SetUp "1"]
> [FEN "%s"]
> [SetUp "1"]
> [Result "%s"]
> [BlackElo "%s"]
> [Black "%s"]
> [WhiteElo "%s"]
> [White "%s"]
> [Round "%s"]
> [Site "%s"]
> [Event "%s"]
>
> The above written by a 'crafty user' to set up the initial position for
> oddball opening books. The above is in option.c, verbatim.
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> Kann die Datei zum Schreiben nicht
> ffnen!
> Voyager V%s
> Salut das ist die Voyager V%s!
> winboard
> xboard
> white
> Suchtiefe jetzt %d.
> Das geht so:tiefe <n>!
> speichere
> result
> lade
> read
> Illegal!!!!
> Das geht so:rueck <Zugnummer>
> rueck
> reset %d
> remove
> nopost
> post
> level
> stufe
>
> strings in option.c (commands) converted to German.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> 814106
> Mein Tip: %s
> uhr zeigt Schachuhr
> rueck <Zugnr.> nimmt Zuege bis zu dieser Zugnummer retour
> zuege Zeigt die bisher gespielten Zuege an
> tip Voyager rechnet mit diesem Zug
> zeit Zeitkontrolleneinstellung
> stufe <Z> <M> <F> gibt Zeitvorgaben (Zuege Minuten Fischerzuschlag)
> zieh Voyager beginnt zu rechnen (mit Warp 10)
> tiefe <n> feste Suchtiefe n (max=65)
> unent bietet Remis an
> Return fuer mehr
> speichere <Dateiname.pgn> speichert im pgn Format ab
> lade <Dateiname.pgn> laed pgn Partie
> lade Zuege eingeben, wie bei Nunn Test etc.
> neu neue Partie
> zuege zeigt die bisher gespielten Zuege an
> hashb <n> Bauernhashtabellengroesse in MB
> hash <n> Hashtabellengroesse in Megabyte
> ende beendet die Voyager
> remis <n> stellt den Remiswert ein
> anti aktiviert die ANTICOMPUTER-Funktion
> ton ein/aus schaltet Ton ein oder aus
> hilfe
>
> Crafty "help" command in German. Option.c was taken but some commands
> were 'stripped out'.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> /%d/%d
> produced %d moves at root
> Search() no moves! ply=%d
> Search
> Remis endeckt!! Tiefe=%d.
> Nichts da zum Rechnen!
> SearchRoot
> %s!!
> ...
> %s!!
>
> The above from SearchRoot() in module searchr.c in crafty. Trace
> output for debugging. If you look at searchr.c, you can find some of
> the above strings verbatim. Others were modified (remis = draw, for
> example.)
>
> %2i %s !!
> %s] S:%d %s(%d)
>
> The above from SearchOutput() in searchr.c also.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> -Mat%.2d
> Mat%.2d
> -Mate
> Mate
> +infnty
> -infnty
> %7.2f
> -Mat%.2d
> Mat%.2d
> -Mate
> Mate
> +infnty
> -infnty
>
> These are how I display scores. Mat18, -Mat04, +infinity should never
> happen but does in trace output. This is in utility.c, "DisplayEvaluation()"
> function.
> --------------------------------------------------------
> %+.2f
> play
> ERROR. comment spans over 100 lines, starting at line %d
> %64s
> (){}[]
> setboard %s
>
> OK.. it uses the 'setboard' command which is what crafty uses to set
> a FEN position. (module=setboard.c).
> --------------------------------------------------------
> BlackElo
> WhiteElo
> %2d %5d %7d %6u %s
> buch
> %s d%d+ %s >(%s) %s <re-searching>
> %s d%d+ %s %s %s
> kibitz d%d+ %s >(%s) %s <re-searching>
> kibitz d%d+ %s %s %s
> %s d%d-> %s %s %s
> kibitz d%d-> %s %s %s
> %s %s
> kibitz %s
> %s pv:%s
> kibitz pv:%s
> %s d%d; %s; nps %d; time %s; cpu %d%%; p:%d
> kibitz d%d; %s; nps %d; time %s; cpu %d%%; p:%d
> %s mated in %d moves.
> %s mate in %d moves.
> kibitz mate in %d moves.
> whisper
> tell %d
> tell %d (%s)
>
> These are all things in "whisper.c" used to whisper/kibitz analysis
> on ICC thru xboard/winboard.
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are some other things that match perfectly, but I don't want to give
> too many things so that this methodology won't work for the next case. Just
> leave it at 'bitmap patterns' and 'scoring arrays'. They match exactly as
> well. This is Crafty. Yes it might have a few different eval values. And
> maybe a different search extension value. And may use null move R=3 rather
> than 2 (a one line change BTW). But it is _not_ a "new program based on
> fuzzy logic" unless you consider violating a copyright and stealing
> someone else's work as "fuzzy logic"...
>
> You are welcome to draw your own conclusions. I'd suggest that if they
> want to maintain that this is a 'new' program that they submit their source
> to someone for analysis. But that will _never_ happen, copyright or not.
>
> IE no bionic source has ever been released, even though the copyright
> certainly requires it. No reason to think this case will be any
> different, is there?
>
> I'm seriously considering letting our university attorney have a look at
> this. It is very blatent. And it is time for it to _stop_. I consider
> it outrageous that someone would do this. I consider it insulting that they
> do it so blatently, thinking no one is smart enough to figure it out.
>
> They need a dose of "Bob's fuzzy logic"
>
> comments welcome, of course...
>
> And the story doesn't end there. I have also heard, thru the grapevine,
> that at least two commercial programs are going to have a parallel search.
> Taken directly from Crafty. But there is one saving grace. I have two
> very subtle parallel search bugs that I have 'circumvented' without fixing.
> Moving things around in memory will expose them again. I hope it happens
> at the most embarassing time. And no, I won't reveal the names of the guilty
> until the programs are released. I'll then personally purchase them and go
> thru them in binary to see if the SMP stuff is new or copied. If copied, you
> can be _certain_ I will react.
>
> Both here and legally. I'd hope that most readers here would avoid buying
> any program that is based on a copyright violation.