What is the right bid here?

[sofos]

Matchpoints NS vul Dealer South

West North East South
-- -- -- 1H
P P 2D ??

You hold (playing 2 over 1)
J5 AKJ98654 A J3
You decide to open 1H (would you have?). It goes P P and RHO bids
2D. What now? If you were to bid 4H can you set 4S or 5D?

[Barry Margolin]

In article
<c060dbb7-f446-419c...@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,

Since it's likely I can take 9 tricks all by myself with hearts trump,
I'm bidding 3H. If partner isn't completely broke, I hope he'll raise
to 4 and we might make it. If he does, I'll double the opponents' game.

Even if partner passes, I'm not planning on taking a save over their
game. I have two defensive tricks, and maybe suits are breaking badly
so that partner will end up with two tricks as well, even though he's
broke.

--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA

[HoneyMonster]

On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:08:12 -0800, sofos wrote:

> Matchpoints NS vul Dealer South
>
> West North East South
> -- -- -- 1H P P 2D ??
>
> You hold (playing 2 over 1)
> J5 AKJ98654 A J3 You decide to open 1H (would you have?).

No. I'd open 4H.

[John Hall]

In article
<c060dbb7-f446-419c...@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,

sofos <papak...@earthlink.net> writes:
>Matchpoints NS vul Dealer South
>
>West North East South
> -- -- -- 1H
> P P 2D ??
>
>You hold (playing 2 over 1)
>J5 AKJ98654 A J3
>You decide to open 1H (would you have?).

Yes, assuming that I don't have an Acol Two type bid to show 8 playing
tricks available,

> It goes P P and RHO bids
>2D. What now?

4H. It may make and, if not, it may prevent the opponents from bidding a
making game their way.

> If you were to bid 4H can you set 4S or 5D?

Possibly not, but if the opponents bid one of those contracts then I
will go quietly in the hope that it will go down. I've put pressure on
them, and may have forced them into bidding too high or choosing the
wrong strain. I've said my piece, and any further move should come from
partner, who should have a reasonable idea of the type of hand I hold.
--
John Hall
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism
by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw

[KWSchneider]

1 - I would have opened 4H. You are 1trick short of game in hand - and
clearly partner can supply any number of ways of getting the 10th
trick.
2 - Now I would bid 4H, spades aren't in the picture [a double here
would be construed as penalty] so LHO has to decide whether to support
diamonds at the 5level.

Kurt

[Adam Beneschan]

On Nov 21, 10:08 am, sofos <papakon...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Matchpoints NS vul Dealer South
>
> West   North  East   South
>   --         --       --        1H
>   P         P       2D       ??
>
> You hold  (playing 2 over 1)
> J5   AKJ98654  A  J3
> You decide to open 1H (would you have?).

Yes, although I know people who would open 4H at this vulnerability.
My partner did this recently, and I was shocked to find out that my
one keycard was enough for slam. (We did OK, though---got their 5D
for 1100.) That's why I wouldn't open it 4H.

> It goes P P and RHO bids
> 2D. What now?

4H.

> If you were to bid 4H can you set 4S or 5D?

Sure. Against 4S, cash the ace of diamonds, underlead in hearts to
partner's queen so that he can cash his diamond king and give me a
diamond ruff. If this seems to be assuming too much in partner's
hand, then I have to ask, just *what* were we supposed to assume in
order to be able to answer this question? Perhaps you weren't clear
about just what you were trying to ask.

-- Adam

[HoneyMonster]

I must say that I am not keen on 1H followed by 4H here. Seems to me that
it lets opponents in at a low level, and then offers fielder's choice on
the second round.

Opening 4H is distinctly preferable, IMO. Yes, there is some small chance
of missing a slam, but with two doubletons it is unlikely we will miss a
slam which would have been reached after a 1H opening.

[Nick France]

On Nov 21, 1:08 pm, sofos <papakon...@earthlink.net> wrote:

I'll bid 4H. Let them guess what game is making (and if it is
making). I agree with the first 1H bid as there was no point to
preempt with values.

Nick France

[Thomas Dehn]

On 11/21/2011 07:08 PM, sofos wrote:
> Matchpoints NS vul Dealer South
>
> West North East South
> -- -- -- 1H
> P P 2D ??
>
> You hold (playing 2 over 1)
> J5 AKJ98654 A J3
> You decide to open 1H (would you have?).

4H

> It goes P P and RHO bids
> 2D. What now? If you were to bid 4H can you set 4S or 5D?

3H. I don't want to give them 200/500 against
a partscore their way. Much easier for them
to double now.



Thomas

[Will in New Haven]

On Nov 21, 1:08 pm, sofos <papakon...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Matchpoints NS vul Dealer South
>
> West   North  East   South
>   --         --       --        1H
>   P         P       2D       ??
>
> You hold  (playing 2 over 1)
> J5   AKJ98654  A  J3
> You decide to open 1H (would you have?).

Yes. Playing Namyats I would bid 4C but I think that's borderline and
besides we probably aren't playing that.

It goes P P and RHO bids
> 2D. What now? If you were to bid 4H can you set 4S or 5D?

I am bidding 4H. If they have a Spade contract, how are they going to
find it? If they have any game, how do I prevent their bidding it by
underbidding my hand?

--
Will in New Haven

[HoneyMonster]

+1. 1H then 4H is the worst of both worlds IMO.

[boblipton]

On Nov 21, 1:08 pm, sofos <papakon...@earthlink.net> wrote:

A good hand for an old-fashioned strong 2. I count 4.5 losers and the
hand gets no better. I'll take a shot on four losers and bid 3H.

Bob

[Stefan]

Me and my partner play a variant of Texas, 4C opening shows a going
heart suit with exactly 3 key cards out of 5 (4H directly shows 2 or
less). If now your partner have close to a zero count it looks as
opponents can easily make 5D or even 6D with a heart void and that is
also a reason to start the bidding on the 4th level.

[KWSchneider]

I wasn't aware that NAMYATS was an option for poster in this question.

Kurt

[lowerline]

The hand is too strong to open 4H in first hand. It is suitable for
Namyats, I think. Not having that on your CC, I agree with opening 1H
and 4H now is clear. Over 4S or 5D next I would pass.

Steven

[Co Wiersma]

Op 21-11-2011 20:15, John Hall schreef:

> In article
> <c060dbb7-f446-419c...@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
> sofos<papak...@earthlink.net> writes:
>> Matchpoints NS vul Dealer South
>>
>> West North East South
>> -- -- -- 1H
>> P P 2D ??
>>
>> You hold (playing 2 over 1)
>> J5 AKJ98654 A J3
>> You decide to open 1H (would you have?).
>
> Yes, assuming that I don't have an Acol Two type bid to show 8 playing
> tricks available,
>

I have always understood that Acol 2 bids are meant for hands that are
strong in HPC
This hand seems to me either a 4C opening bid if you play Namyats
or a 1H opening bid

>> It goes P P and RHO bids
>> 2D. What now?
>
> 4H. It may make and, if not, it may prevent the opponents from bidding a
> making game their way.
>
>> If you were to bid 4H can you set 4S or 5D?
>
> Possibly not, but if the opponents bid one of those contracts then I
> will go quietly in the hope that it will go down. I've put pressure on
> them, and may have forced them into bidding too high or choosing the
> wrong strain. I've said my piece, and any further move should come from
> partner, who should have a reasonable idea of the type of hand I hold.

For the rest , I totally agree with you

Co Wiersma

[Will in New Haven]

Namyats was originally the upper tier of hands where people would have
formerly have opened 4M. This hand fits that requirement as far as I
can see. On the other hand, most of the Namyats openings made by our
opponents over the years have been on borderline 2C openers, which I
think are much too strong and flexible for Namyats.

Not playing Namyats, I suppose this _is_ an upper-tier 4H opener but I
choose to open 1H.

[John Hall]

In article <4ecbd06c$0$6924$e4fe...@news2.news.xs4all.nl>,

Co Wiersma <co.wi...@xs4all.nl> writes:
>Op 21-11-2011 20:15, John Hall schreef:
>> In article
>> <c060dbb7-f446-419c...@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
>> sofos<papak...@earthlink.net> writes:
>>> Matchpoints NS vul Dealer South
>>>
>>> West North East South
>>> -- -- -- 1H
>>> P P 2D ??
>>>
>>> You hold (playing 2 over 1)
>>> J5 AKJ98654 A J3
>>> You decide to open 1H (would you have?).
>>
>> Yes, assuming that I don't have an Acol Two type bid to show 8 playing
>> tricks available,
>>
>
>I have always understood that Acol 2 bids are meant for hands that
>are strong in HPC

I admit that not everyone would think that one ace outside the long suit
is enough for that hand to qualify. In EBU tournaments, I believe
there's now a rule of something-or-other that Acol Twos are supposed to
meet, but since I haven't played any tournament bridge for about five
years I haven't memorised the details.

<snip>

[tivojohn]

On Nov 21, 10:08 am, sofos <papakon...@earthlink.net> wrote:

3H seems right to me. Having initially passed, partner will raise to
4H with a side A or K. Admittedly, partner might also raise with less
help (i.e. trump Q and a side Q or a side doubleton). Regardless,
this seems like a good situation for both partners to contribute to
the decision.

At unfavorable vul, I do not see a big upside to 4H as a blocking
action. The downside is -500 or even -800 if LHO's reasons for an
initial pass include H length.

-- john

[Will in New Haven]

On Nov 22, 1:36 pm, John Hall <nospam_no...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <4ecbd06c$0$6924$e4fe5...@news2.news.xs4all.nl>,

>  Co Wiersma <co.wier...@xs4all.nl> writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> >Op 21-11-2011 20:15, John Hall schreef:
> >> In article

> >> <c060dbb7-f446-419c-8adb-98e8a7503...@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
> >>   sofos<papakon...@earthlink.net>  writes:

> >>> Matchpoints NS vul Dealer South
>
> >>> West   North  East   South
> >>>   --         --       --        1H
> >>>   P         P       2D       ??
>
> >>> You hold  (playing 2 over 1)
> >>> J5   AKJ98654  A  J3
> >>> You decide to open 1H (would you have?).
>
> >> Yes, assuming that I don't have an Acol Two type bid to show 8 playing
> >> tricks available,
>
> >I have always understood that Acol 2 bids are meant for hands that
> >are strong in HPC
>
> I admit that not everyone would think that one ace outside the long suit
> is enough for that hand to qualify. In EBU tournaments, I believe
> there's now a rule of something-or-other that Acol Twos are supposed to
> meet, but since I haven't played any tournament bridge for about five
> years I haven't memorised the details.

It looks like the sort of hand some Acol players (including me on
occasion) would open 2H, even though they didn't really think it was
"a hand of power and quality."

It is not a textbook 2H but the opponents, if they are not the
suspicious type, could be deterred from finding a good competitive
bid. I still have one Acol partnership and I would be very, very
surprised if Ricky opened the hand 2H and he would be somewhat
surprised if I did. Some Acol pairs adopted Namyats so that they could
distinguish between the real 2H and the pseudo 2H. I say why tell the
opponents.

Bob Lipton, upthread, called it an "old-fashioned strong two" and it
would be tempting to open a game-forcing 2H against some opponents.
This would be quite legal as well. No one, however, would open it a
strong, forcing artificial 2C, would they, or even a strong,
artificial 1C.

[tivojohn]

On Nov 21, 10:08 am, sofos <papakon...@earthlink.net> wrote:

Yes, I would have opened 1H. An opening 4H bid will discourage
partner from investigating slam in many situations when it is
viable.

I would open 4H with the same H suit and side suit holdings like these
examples:
J5 8 J3
K5 8 J3

[John Hall]

In article
<96975967-10e5-4db2...@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,

The argument for opening 2H is that you only need to find partner with
something like:

Axx xx xxxx xxxx

and he'd pass 1H when 4H is an excellent contract. (You'd also get there
by opening 4H, of course, but I don't like doing that with an outside
ace.)

>
>It is not a textbook 2H but the opponents, if they are not the
>suspicious type, could be deterred from finding a good competitive
>bid. I still have one Acol partnership and I would be very, very
>surprised if Ricky opened the hand 2H and he would be somewhat
>surprised if I did. Some Acol pairs adopted Namyats so that they could
>distinguish between the real 2H and the pseudo 2H. I say why tell the
>opponents.
>
>Bob Lipton, upthread, called it an "old-fashioned strong two" and it
>would be tempting to open a game-forcing 2H against some opponents.
>This would be quite legal as well. No one, however, would open it a
>strong, forcing artificial 2C,

Nope.

> would they, or even a strong,
>artificial 1C.

Though opening 1H in a 1C system seems even more of a misdescription
than doing so a "natural" system, since partner is less likely to strain
to bid on a marginal hand if he knows that 1H won't be bid on a 19
count.

[Thomas Dehn]

At unfavourable, the hand has about the
right playing strength for a 4H opener.


Thomas

[Douglas Newlands]

The opponents will save you as they are able to make at least 10 tricks
in spades most of the time and will not know to pass out 1H.

doug

[HoneyMonster]

Huh? If they can make ten tricks in Spades, why would they *want* to pass
out 1H?

[Adam Beneschan]

On Nov 22, 1:35 pm, John Hall <nospam_no...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >It looks like the sort of hand some Acol players (including me on
> >occasion) would open 2H, even though they didn't really think it was
> >"a hand of power and quality."
>
> The argument for opening 2H is that you only need to find partner with
> something like:
>
> Axx xx xxxx xxxx
>
> and he'd pass 1H when 4H is an excellent contract.

As we've been discussing on another thread, a lot of players will not
pass an opening 1-of-a-suit bid when holding an ace (playing
standardish methods, i.e. not something like Precision).

-- Adam

[Douglas Newlands]

The point I was making is that if you open 1H you will get another bid
courtesy of either partner or the opponents. There is no need to be
opening 2H.

doug

[jogs]

I'm bidding 3H and not bidding again if partner passes.
Have encountered few opponents capable of finding
spades after both not bidding them on their first turn
to bid.

[Gerben Dirksen]

On Nov 21, 7:08 pm, sofos <papakon...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Matchpoints NS vul Dealer South
>
> West   North  East   South
>   --         --       --        1H
>   P         P       2D       ??
>
> You hold  (playing 2 over 1)
> J5   AKJ98654  A  J3
> You decide to open 1H (would you have?). It goes P P and RHO bids
> 2D. What now? If you were to bid 4H can you set 4S or 5D?

4H now. The real problem is what you are going to do when they reach
4S.

Gerben

[Paul Hightower]

"sofos" <papak...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:c060dbb7-f446-419c...@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com...

> Matchpoints NS vul Dealer South
>
> West North East South
> -- -- -- 1H
> P P 2D ??
>
> You hold (playing 2 over 1)
> J5 AKJ98654 A J3
> You decide to open 1H (would you have?). It goes P P and RHO bids
> 2D. What now? If you were to bid 4H can you set 4S or 5D?

Open 2H, compete with 3H, then 4H...don't mind me, just walkin' the dog...

[peter cheung]

my definition of a 4h opening is very simple it is a preempt and so 1h
opening is the correct one assuming no agreement on a 4c opening .

Since this is a match point I would cue bid 3d and hope partner can
understand i have a strong hand.
If the opponent did not bid anything partner either bid 3h 4h and i'll
pass or 3s or 4c and i'll bid 4h
If opponet bid and partner passes i'll compete to 4h

[Frances]

On Nov 22, 8:59 pm, Will in New Haven

I don't think it's really what you mean, but of course if you
systemically open a strong 2H on this type of hand you would indeed
tell your openings it might be a 'good' 4H bid rather than a hand of
'power and quality'.

> Bob Lipton, upthread, called it an "old-fashioned strong two" and it
> would be tempting to open a game-forcing 2H against some opponents.
> This would be quite legal as well. No one, however, would open it a
> strong, forcing artificial 2C, would they, or even a strong,
> artificial 1C.
>
> --

> Will in New Haven- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Will in New Haven]

If it were systemic, or even an occasional thing, we would have to
alert it. However, we don't play together much and it has come up once
in ten years. And I still think Rick might as well alert it as
standard two-bids haven't come up much either.

[Frances]

On Nov 22, 6:36 pm, John Hall <nospam_no...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <4ecbd06c$0$6924$e4fe5...@news2.news.xs4all.nl>,

>  Co Wiersma <co.wier...@xs4all.nl> writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> >Op 21-11-2011 20:15, John Hall schreef:
> >> In article

> >> <c060dbb7-f446-419c-8adb-98e8a7503...@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
> >>   sofos<papakon...@earthlink.net>  writes:

> >>> Matchpoints NS vul Dealer South
>
> >>> West   North  East   South
> >>>   --         --       --        1H
> >>>   P         P       2D       ??
>
> >>> You hold  (playing 2 over 1)
> >>> J5   AKJ98654  A  J3
> >>> You decide to open 1H (would you have?).
>
> >> Yes, assuming that I don't have an Acol Two type bid to show 8 playing
> >> tricks available,
>
> >I have always understood that Acol 2 bids are meant for hands that
> >are strong in HPC
>
> I admit that not everyone would think that one ace outside the long suit
> is enough for that hand to qualify. In EBU tournaments, I believe
> there's now a rule of something-or-other that Acol Twos are supposed to
> meet, but since I haven't played any tournament bridge for about five
> years I haven't memorised the details.
>

You can open a natural 2H bid on any hand you like. The EBU rules
only apply to artificial openings.

> <snip>
> --
> John Hall
>              "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism
>               by those who have not got it."

>                                               George Bernard Shaw- Hide quoted text -

[Eric Leong]

On Monday, November 21, 2011 10:08:12 AM UTC-8, sofos wrote:
> Matchpoints NS vul Dealer South
>
> West North East South
> -- -- -- 1H
> P P 2D ??
>
> You hold (playing 2 over 1)
> J5 AKJ98654 A J3

> You decide to open 1H (would you have?). It goes P P and RHO bids
> 2D. What now? If you were to bid 4H can you set 4S or 5D?

Bidding 4H is a blunder. If 4H is making surely partner will have the values to raise to 4H with his maximum. If partner doesn't have the right values or no values all 4H accomplishes is to volunter to go down 500 to 800 in 4Hx which is more than the value of any opponent's non-vulnerable game. One would think if partner doesn't have maximum values then LHO is sitting on an opening bid or nearly opening bid. The main reason he didn't double is maybe he has at least three hearts. Consequently, if you bid 4H and shut the opponents out you are just going to be doubled.

Bidding 3H has many ways your side can go plus and win.
1. Partner can bid 4H when he has extra values.
2. Partner can pass 3H and beat all the pairs in 4H
3. LHO might bid 3NT and after a heart lead you will set up hearts and wait to
get in with the diamond ace and run your established hears.
4. LHO might get to 4S where you can set 4S by say heart lead, cash diamond ace
heart ruff to partner, diamond ruff.

So why bid 4H as a preempt when LHO is hardly likely to have any problems with the bid?

Eric Leong

[Steve Willner]

On 11/21/2011 1:08 PM, sofos wrote:
> Matchpoints NS vul Dealer South
>
> West North East South
> -- -- -- 1H
> P P 2D ??
>
> You hold (playing 2 over 1)
> J5 AKJ98654 A J3
> You decide to open 1H (would you have?).

If I were going to preempt, it would have to be 5H because bidding 4H
seems too little. I'm not keen on that, so I agree with the 1H opening.
As others have written, if you can open 4C to show a strong 4H bid,
this seems to be a fine hand for it.

> It goes P P and RHO bids 2D. What now?

As others have written, 4H is normal. Against some opponents, it's
worth considering 2H. Your aim should be to buy the contract in hearts,
and jumping now will intimidate some opponents but goad others. There's
no substitute for knowing your customers.

One thing I'd like to know is how limited East's 2D bid is. Most play
it up to a max of 12 HCP or so, and if that's the case, West must have
points and be well-stacked in hearts not to have bid over 1H. Others
play that 2D can be a fairly strong hand, in which case West doesn't
have to have hearts.

> If you were to bid 4H can you set 4S or 5D?

I wouldn't expect to, though partner might have just enough defensive
junk to do it. One advantage of the 2H sequence is that we won't be in
a forcing pass situation, though I think the majority of pairs these
days wouldn't play forcing passes even after a 4H bid. Years ago, I
think forcing passes after a voluntary game bid at these colors would
have been common.

--
Help keep our newsgroup healthy; please don't feed the trolls.
Steve Willner Phone 617-495-7123 swil...@nhcc.net
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA