What is your opening bid with : 1062/KQ3/AQ87/A63
vincit
You are the Dealer
You play strong NT (15-17)
1062
KQ3
AQ87
A63
1NT vs 1D ?
How do you evaluate this hand ? (Do you deduct 1pt for the 4333
shape?)
What is your opening bid ? Why ?
Do you consider your choice obvious or would you hesitate between 1D
and 1NT ?
Vincit, Paris, France
vincit
Thomas Dehn
"vincit" <jf.f...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> MP
> You are the Dealer
> You play strong NT (15-17)
>
> 1062
> KQ3
> AQ87
> A63
>
> 1NT vs 1D ?
I open 1D. 4333 shape, and a little bit below average
in intermediates. Furthermore, the A AQ KQ honor
combinations are suit-oriented.
Thomas
Kent Feiler
wrote:
1062
KQ3
AQ87
A63
1NT vs 1D ?
Vincit, Paris, France
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are we MPs or IMPs? In MPs, not bidding 1NT is a swingy bid since
some large % of the field will automatically bid 1NT. So if you're
looking for a swing, 1D is a good choice, if you're not, bid 1NT.
In IMPs it doesn't matter. Whichever choice my partner made would be
fine with me.
Getting back to the threads on opening 1NT with a 5-cd major, and
natural, GF 2NT response, I would bid 1NT because I don't like bidding
4-cd minors. I think it helps the opponents more than us.
Regards,
Kent Feiler
www.KentFeiler.com
Travis Crump
If I deduct a point for 4333 then I add at least a point for no jacks
and no unsupported queens. Automatic strong NT.
Travis
Lorne
news:ac0e6bf4-d8c4-4980...@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> MP
> You are the Dealer
> You play strong NT (15-17)
>
> 1062
> KQ3
> AQ87
> A63
>
> 1NT vs 1D ?
>
> How do you evaluate this hand ? (Do you deduct 1pt for the 4333
> shape?)
> What is your opening bid ? Why ?
1N because:-
1. I am balanced
2. I have the right point count
3. the rest of the field will treat it as a strong NT
4. it is very unlikely opening 1N will leave us in NT when a suit contract
is better (partner will transfer out 99% of the time it is better to be in a
suit).
> Do you consider your choice obvious or would you hesitate between 1D
> and 1NT ?
1D would never cross my mind if 15 points was part of my NT range.
ted
1NT and no contest
brsri...@gmail.com
Give partner 6 hearts, 10 points and a spade singleton and we can make
11 tricks with hearts as trumps, but if there is no major suit fit
then getting to 3N after your 1N opening means probably wrong siding
the contract. I prefer opening 1D.
Boris
Andrew
> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 01:49:39 -0700 (PDT), vincit <jf.foh...@wanadoo.fr>
If I was going to open 1m, 1C has some appeal as a mild psychic.
However, I prefer 1NT.
Andrew
henry...@yahoo.com
I hate 4333 shapes, but to me this is a strong 1nt because of the good
HCP structure. It would not occur to me not to open this hand with a
strong 1nt.
Henrysun909
Tim DeLaney
Like most of the others, 1NT. A key consideration is that opening 1NT
makes it easier to play our best fit when partner is distributional.
He knows that the worst that I can have in his suit is xx.
This is not a choice. 1NT is automatic with me.
Tim
paul...@infi.net
I don't deduct for 4333 when bidding notrump. This is an automatic,
not much thought 1NT for me. I might think twice about xx KQxx KQxx
KQx , and even longer about KQxx xx KQx KQxx .
patpow...@gmail.com
1NT and I wouldn't think twice about it. What possible advantage
could there be to a 1D opening? I can't imagine any, and partner is
not going to expect a hand like this.
I think that deducting 1pt for the flat shape is a bad idea. This is
a very good hand if partner is long in any suit, and it will be easy
to find if you simply open 1NT. Otherwise you will have nothing but
problems. The most obvious is 1D 1S. Is that spade suit four or five
cards? Now you must investigate this while 1NT might be your best
contract and you would have found it if you opened 1NT.
Then there's defense. If it isn't your hand, you are obviously better
off opening 1NT.
raija d
"vincit" <jf.f...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:ac0e6bf4-d8c4-4980...@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
1NT. If I don't open 1NT with this, partner will later in the auction not
believe that I have a balanced 15-17 count because *the dog didn't bark*
Adam Beneschan
> "vincit" <jf.foh...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
>
> news:ac0e6bf4-d8c4-4980...@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > MP
> > You are the Dealer
> > You play strong NT (15-17)
>
> > 1062
> > KQ3
> > AQ87
> > A63
> 1NT. If I don't open 1NT with this, partner will later in the auction not
> believe that I have a balanced 15-17 count because *the dog didn't bark*
I'd open 1NT also, but I really don't get this argument. If you
evaluate this 15-count as only worth a 14-count, then presumably you
want partner to bid as if you only held a 14-count. So I don't see
why it would be a problem for partner not to believe you have a
balanced 15-17. If your thinking is that the later auction may cause
you to reevaluate the hand upward for suit play (say partner shows a
diamond suit), I can see that you may have a problem. However, it's
really not much different than the problem you'd have with 1062/KQ3/
AQ87/K63, which nobody here would upgrade to a 15-17 notrump but is
going to look a lot better after partner shows a diamond suit.
Besides, if you're thinking about suit play then your pancake
distribution should probably dampen your enthusiasm about upgrading
anyway. If partner manages to show a diamond suit and a stiff spade
(on either example), I may have to get creative, or just take over.
The "dog that didn't bark" argument may make more sense if you're
worried about what happens if the opponents play the hand, and partner
will be counting points and never playing you for a balanced 15-
count. (Unless he's used to your style, and then he might figure it
out anyway.)
-- Adam
raija d
"Adam Beneschan" <ad...@irvine.com> wrote in message
news:9b657473-9649-4689...@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
You make good points. Just to clarify what I intended: I did not even
consider downgrading the OP hand; I might want to upgrade later depending on
how auction goes, with all the controls. I find the *dog didn't bark*
evidence useful for both when we end up defending and when partner evaluates
his hand/options during the auction.
Thomas Dehn
> consider downgrading the OP hand; I might want to upgrade later depending on
> how auction goes, with all the controls.
Controls are valuable in suit play when you have
a good fit. However,
1062
KQ3
AQ87
A63
begin totally flat, partner will need a lot of distribution
before those controls really are worth something.
Opposite AKx,Axxx,xxx,xxx you have lots of controls
but 3NT has almost no play.
Give partner a flat 9 or 10 count, and
the inevitable 3NT after a strong NT opener
will frequently be hopeless.
Thomas
brsri...@gmail.com
The point is this. What if partner is...
AQx
xxxx
xxxx
Qx
or
AQx
Jxxx
JTxx
Qx
Who would you want to be declarer in NT?
Boris
Adam Beneschan
Oh, come on. Yes, I have Axx in one of my suits, and if partner has
Qx in the same suit it would be better if he played the hand, if the
opponents pick that suit. So what conclusion do you want us to draw?
That you should *never* open notrump if you have Axx in *any* suit,
because partner might have Qx in that suit?
Maybe you've given us a good reason not to open notrump with a hand
like Axx Ax Axxx Axxx. But please, let's avoid the silly argument
that you shouldn't open notrump if you can construct a layout where
you'd rather partner play the notrump. You can almost *always*
construct a layout like that for *any* hand.
-- Adam
Eric Leong
You might deduct a point in a suit contract because your hand would
have a ruffing value then but in a notrump contract you can't ruff
anything. If you fail to open 1NT then you are going to have to guess
later when partner responds whether you should bid to try to catch up
or pass to prevent the partnership from getting too high. I really
don't see why you would want to create a problem for yourself by not
opening 1NT if your system allows it.
Eric Leong
brsri...@gmail.com
Look, don't putt those queens in NT, you can't put 'em in the red
suits obviously, and you don't want to play 3N since you need a
running suit of your own and your opponents don't having a fit.
You don't have a mountain, you have a lousy 15 if partner does not
have a shortness in spades and a fit.
Boris
brsri...@gmail.com
And above all, preferably you would wish a superfit. Just in case:)
Boris
brsri...@gmail.com
....like Axx Ax Axxx Axxx.....
Right, that is why I am playing Precision with 1N being 11-14 and 1C
15+ whilst keeping the sequence 1C - 1N natural.
Borir
brsri...@gmail.com
And from now on the sequence 1C - 1D as possibly 8+, no quacks and no
4+ card M. LOL
Borisssss
Art Hoffman
"Eric Leong" <ewleo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:44fe06b5-b2cc-4578...@o40g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
----------------------------------------------------------------
As Jay Leno says, "Exaaactly!" When you open 1NT with 15 HCP, balanced, you
turn the wheel over to partner. If he issues an invitation, that's the time
to evaluate your marginal hand and reject the invitation.
brsri...@gmail.com
> "Eric Leong" <ewleong...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Right, except that you might fail in 2N as well with minimum values.
4333 makes no appeal to me in 3N. Sometimes having a lot of soft
values and good intermediates or a source of tricks will favor 3N.
Here you have 'NADA', flat hand with no source of tricks, the
intermediate cards are nothing to be proud of and partner's possible
queens in the black suits won't be very helpful, especially if you
set yourself declarer in NT.
Boris
vincit
This hand is ideal for NT so is a 4333, the A and AQ combination AND
the Txx in spades are excellent
You should not deduct 1 point for a 4333 when considering opening a
strong NT, this is an heresy !
4333 is the perfect dist for 4333 a priori 1NT strong
You are right to protect a Dx but it cannot always be done and it is a
small disadvantage compared to what you gain when opening 1NT
Actually I would be interested to know who said that you should
devalue a 4333 for NT purposes, I cannot find it in my books
Any idea, anyone ?
Vincit
brsri...@gmail.com
I don't know who has told you that the 4333 dist. is the perfect
distribution for 3N but I am sure it meant to say that it is an even
worst distribution for a suit contract. If you think you will have the
time to develop your tricks than think again, with two 4333 hands or
one 4432 and one 4333 you'll have no suit to develop, one spade ten
and no nines or jacks looks really nothing special to me, you would
wish a heart or diamond fit or a good stopper in spades and probably a
second club stopper as well . How many points your partner needs to
have for 3N to have a chance?
Boris
vincit
No, it means 4333 is the best dist a priori when playing NT, it
behaves better than a 4432/5422/5332 in terms of trick taking
capability
Also it is an opposition for an opponent running a 5 card suit
NO way to discount 1 point, Suit purposes is another matter irrelevant
to the question
I did not say the hand was special, I said this is "ideal" IMHO this
is my idea of a minimum strong 1NT opening
My partner wont invite because I play PoB, but with a "classical" 2NT
invitation, I will pass.
vincit
Boris
Are you implying that you're the one involved in the conspiracy
stating that you should deduct 1 pt with a 4333 when evaluating a
strong NT opening ?
One Spade Ten is not exciting so you prefer xx or xxx, the rest of
your description is part of your fertile imagination and pure
speculation, you are mising the point but this was a nice try I had to
read it two times to get your point and I still did not get it.... How
is it related to the Question ? Are you saying you will open 1D
because the Hand does not have the potential for a 1Nt opening or are
you saying something else that it is going to wrong side the
contract .... BTW 4333 is very good to optimize potential sources of
tricks with your partner !
Botton line : Is the hand worth a 1NT opening or not ?
cheers
Vincit
brsri...@gmail.com
For 3N you need two more stoppers in clubs and spades, however you
should expect your tricks will be coming from hearts and diamonds
because you don't need to add as much honors as in spades and clubs.
And the stoppers you can afford are two queens and two kings or an
ace, two queens and two jacks coupled with some intermediates. Where
are you going to put 'em in your partner's hand ? In clubs and spades
obviously and perhaps a king or two jacks coupled with a ten in the
red suits. I prefer the 5332 distribution in NT to the 4333
distribution you were mentioning.
Boris
brsri...@gmail.com
By the way I don't find 4333 hands neither particularly disgusting or
attractive for that matter. It all depends on partner's hand,
picturing a likely problem hand when partner is holding a specific hcp
range is very important as to avoid a bidding problem that one might
be generating by bidding in a certain way.
Boris
brsri...@gmail.com
In fact the more I am looking at this hand and the more I am under the
impression that by adding honors I am just adding stoppers instead of
developing tricks:)
My kindest regards
Boris
:)
brsri...@gmail.com
However I want to point out that 4333 hands are as good as any in NT.
Nevertheless your example hand has some additional flaws like
concentrated values in hearts and diamonds coupled with too many
controls, a minimum NT opening and not so good intermediates, add a
ten somewhere or an additional 9, say in spades, and it is an
acceptable albeit minimum 1N opening even by my standards.
Cheers
Boris
vincit
Yes you are correct
Also touching Honors like KQx is not so good, Axx, you'be got to
protect Dx and AQxx is not good either because you've to protect Jx or
even 10x with your partner
If you follow up then you will open 1NT with only all guarded suits,
so you cannot have everything.
As far as I am concerned, I always ask my partner not to open 1NT with
a small xxS, I would like 10x minimum that is just my "fantasy"
Still , I am aware of these flaws, but IMO 1NT is still best and a
clear winner vs 1D
The texture (10's , 9's 8's) of the hand is fundamental especially for
upgrading the Hand, in this case the issue is whether to downgrade or
not
Also Aces are usually undervalued, so if KQx is minus factor, 4333
dist is a security ref to unguarded suits
So some flaws (but not so many) and the balance still favours a 1NT
strong opening (indeed minimum)
You may also consider that you want to open 1NT to indicate that you
are balanced and you have a certain range of points for tactical
reasons so that your partner is better positioned to evaluate his hand
and teh combined potential of both hands