Rank these four calls on a Fourth Seat Swan
Jordan
You hold QJ9xxxx / x / AQxx / T in fourth chair.
The bidding comes three passes to you.
Assuming all calls have their "expert standard" meaning, rank from best to
worst (and grade, if you wish) the following four calls:
a) 1S
b) 2S
c) 3S
d) 4S
Thanks! -- Jordan
Rich
Why don't you have "pass" as a consideration? I would probably open
2S.. but that's because I don't know how to bid. I certainly think 3S
or 4S is ridiculous.
Rich Regan
Alan Malloy
2S : Not 100% descriptive, but most likely to land in a making contract
pass: Second choice. There's no guarantee we can go plus if we bid.
1S : Reasonable. I might pick this in third seat.
4S : I guess it could work. We might have 10 tricks and not find game
after 1S (KT Jxxxx KJ Qxxx), but it seems against the odds.
3S : Indefensible. Neither descriptive nor destructive, this just makes
it easier to lose the partscore battle by being a level higher than the
field.
--
Cheers,
Alan (San Jose, California, USA)
Palooka
reasonable, and that pass is worth absolutely four call.
Palooka
Raija D
"Jordan" <jc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:-MydnVfNs9xG7WrX...@earthlink.com...
3S serves no purpose (zero) and partner will never know what cards he needs
to raise - and there is also no room to find out.
4S is a gamble (1) and I'd rather not gamble with good prospects for a plus
at a partscore and some defense.
1S has considerable merit (6) but not as much as 2S.
2S for me.
boblipton
I would assume that honors and controls are even split and my choices
would be 4 Spades, 2 Spades and pass. Nothing else in it.
Bob
Kieran Dyke
I don't loathe any of them. 4S is a practical shot opposite partner's likely
ten-count. 3S shows a real trick hand and this hand is roughly what could be
expected on playing strength. 2S is a little of an underbid - it might
depend on how likely this partner is to try for game. 1S has the problem
that unless spades get raised it's hard to see how you'll ever get to game -
you can hardly afford a strong rebid.
I think I like 3S most. Partner should look at his spades and his aces, and
mistrust everything else. (Sadly, he won't know to value the diamond king,
but he probably wouldn't on any other sequence either). 4S would be more
appropriate with 7(0)4(2) since partner wouldn't have any idea how to value
his cards, so we might as well shoot game. The one thing that 3S does which
is nice is that it keeps us out of peril when partner has all the wrong
stuff - a stiff spade and aceless ten-count.
Tiggrr
OldPalooka
I like 3S. I expect to make it and partner knows he needs prime cards
to raise. This is a bit of a compromise, because I am a little short
on winners and have 1/2 loser less than I might. I also do not want
to let them in on the 3 level.
4S is too rich, I don't expect to make it if partner cannot peep a
raise unless I catch a lucky diamond fit.
I have the wrong hand for a 4th position 2S, 4th hand 2S should look
like Besse.
I don't know what you would be trying to accomplish with 1S.
I think if you pass [or even consider it], you must secretly hate the
game.
-- Bill Shutts
castigamatti
Well it's the four card diamond suit that bothers me, if partner is
short in spades and diamonds we may have to collect three corps in
diamonds, one in heart or clubs and two in spades.
On the other hand if partner has nothing wasted in hearts, some spades
and a ten count anything but 2S is an underbid, even 2S is an underbid
with some hands. I bid 2S with this hand.
B.R.
Sid
2S in 4th seat. Nothing else will rate.
Sid
Eric Leong
Where is your argument?
Eric Leong
Rich
> > Rich Regan
>
> Where is your argument?
errr... the opponents have more HCP than we do... how high do I want
to get initially?
Rich
Lorne
2S, 3S, 1S & 4S=last.
Partner has 9-11 points and that makes 4S a slight favourite and 3S over 80%
to make and the pass mentioned by others clearly wrong.
1S makes it too easy for the oppo to find a heart or club fit if they have
one and 4S is not good enough odds (just over 50%) so I put these joint
last.
If you open 2S or 3S you want partner to raise with good controls or a
diamond fit but do not care much about his trumps. 3S will get him to focus
on controls, but 2S has the edge for me as partner can make an intelligent
game try and we may find out about the diamond position in time to stop at
3S or go on to game as appropriate so I put 2S top.
Derek Broughton
Beats me what "expert standard" should be, but I'll open 3S showing exactly
7 spades and imo an opening hand.
--
derek
paul
4S for me. Partner is a fair bet to cover two losers, and I don't want
to defend anything below the five level.
Andrew
c)
a)
b)
d)
Holding only 9 points, after 3 passes your partner *must* have a hand
in the 9-11 range. You will have play for 4S much of the time. Your
defensive prospects range from 5 tricks to about two tricks depending
on how well partner fits your suits.
3S sends the right message and may keep the opponents out if the
happen to have missed a heart or club fit. It will be difficult to
double when it is wrong.
1S can be considered only because you have the spade suit. I'd be
quite nervous about opening 1S with this much distribution, but it
could be right if partner has a total misfit such as: xx, KQxx, xxx,
KQxx. 1S may allow you to show your side suit in some auctions to help
partner decide how high to compete.
4S is an overbid which could overexcite partner and could go very awry
if partner is grossly misfitting.
2S is both an underbid and a misbid. Partner will expect 10-12 and a 6-
card suit, not a 7-4 5-loser hand.
Andrew
Andrew
The high cards are fairly split. The opponents probably have 11
opposite 11, or 11 opposite 10 giving partner something like 9-11 HCP.
You could make a game opposite as little as two kings and you can
outbid the opponents at the same level. Passing out this hand should
not be a consideration.
Andrew
castigamatti
Talking of controls? Does game make opposite this hand from partner? S
x H Kxxx D Kxx C Axxxx. Do I hear not necessarily? What's the
difference between a six card suit and a seven card suit then? I don't
see much of a difference when considering opener's hand. 5 losers?
Open 1S then, not that anyone is taking too much seriously the LTC
with some hands, but then again it can help for demonstration
purposes.
B.R.
castigamatti
Not to mention that S x H Kxxx D Kxx S Axxxx is an opening bid in
first place. This example also shows why with a balanced control rich
11 count like this S xx H Axxx D Kxx C Axxx there is no need to hurry
in opening that hand. With an unbalanced control rich eleven count
this is a horse of a different color. One may decide not to open with
S x H Axx D Kxxx C Axxxx, an 11 count with no four card major its
reasoning ( already been mentioned by someone on rec.games.bridge).
Wrong reasoning. Partner will never believe a passed unbalanced hand
can have two aces and a king, this is especially true for unbalanced
hands, the cover cards reasoning for those evaluating with the aid of
the LTC, not very relevant when holding balanced hands.
B.R.
Andrew
Opening the above hand is a form of punishment reserved for the damned
in one of the lower levels of Dante's inferno.
Andrew
castigamatti
Aren't you a Meckwell aficionado?
:-)
B.R.
Darin Takemoto
Like say, Kx Axxx xx QJxxx? Two cover cards, one of them a trump
honor, another an ace, two card trump support, and the expected 10
HCP. What more could you want? And yet on a trump lead and
continuation (I'll even give you a 2-2 trump break) you need the
diamond hook onside for down one.
Darin
KWSchneider
You are looking for a plus score. 3S making and 2S making 3 are the
same, so there is absolutely no point opening 3S unless you want
partner to raise to 4S. And then on what basis will he raise?
Secondly, we have 3 passed hands - who in their right mind will
compete over 2S - if they couldn't pre-empt originally?
So - either gamble and bid 4S for a probable minus, or be smart and
open 2S, competing to 3S if the opps get involved [very unlikely].
The bad bid is 3S going off one...
Cheers,
Kurt
henry...@yahoo.com
Could not partner have
Kx
Qxx
Kxxx
Qxxx
for his1st seat pass, in which case you wouldn't be unhappy being in
4s?
By the same token, couldn't partner have
xx
AQxx
xxx
KJxx
in which case 4s is way too high?
So I vote for an opening bid that shows long spades but gives me
enough room to explore for game. To me, that means opening this hand
with 2s, which in 4th seat should show an opening bid with a good
suit, which I think I have.
Opening 1s feels inferior to me, as it makes it easier for the
opponents to enter the auction, and higher spade bids are either
guesses for me (4s) or guesses for partner as to whether his values
fit mine (3s).
I would understand why people would open 1s, 3s, or 4s, but I myself
wouldn't do it.
Henrysun909
henry...@yahoo.com
Not to mention that S x H Kxxx D Kxx S Axxxx is an opening bid in
first place.
*********************
I like to open light when unbalanced, but the only time I would
consider opening this hand is if I were playing Precision in a
practiced partnership.
I would NEVER open this hand in a non strong-club context. Not only
is it understrength, in spite of the 4 controls and 2 quick tricks,
the 1c 1s sequence is going to be miserable for me.
Henrysun909
castigamatti
wrote:
Right, it is miserable in Precision as well. This is basically the
only reason why I consider Precision an interesting bidding system.
It's limiting the opening bids in such way that one can open with
less, especially important for some hands, worthy of being opened in
my opinion. Meckwell expand things even more, they open as frequently
as they can.
B.R.
henry...@yahoo.com
It isn't miserable in Precision at all. You open a nebulous diamond,
and if partner bids 1s,you rebid 2c, suggesting an unbalanced hand
with clubs and a red suit. (One suited club hands open 2c, and two
suited club hands with spades raise spades.)
Because of the negative inferences available from not open 2c and not
raising 1s to 2s, the Precision sequence is much more workable than
the 2/1 or SAYC sequence is.
Henrysun909