Responder's Rebid

[Will in New Haven]

You are first to speak with

TXX KQJ9X K TXXX

and you pass. (anyone not pass?)
(the opponents pass throughout)
Partner opens 1D
You respond 1H (anyone have any other option?)
Partner rebids 1S

What is your next action?
Would you do the same if you were not a passed hand?

--
Will in New Haven

[Chris xxxxx]

On May 10, 1:50 pm, Will in New Haven

<bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
> You are first to speak with
>
> TXX KQJ9X K TXXX
>
> and you pass. (anyone not pass?)

At favorable I probably try 2H.

> (the opponents pass throughout)
> Partner opens 1D
> You respond 1H (anyone have any other option?)

Not I.

> Partner rebids 1S
>
> What is your next action?

2C. This may be clear or it may be close between this and 1NT
depending on the range for our 1NT rebid by responder. The hand feels
suit-oriented on this auction, so I'd break ties in favor of 2C.

> Would you do the same if you were not a passed hand?

It depends on my agreements. If I can bid 2C with this weak a hand or
1NT with this strong a hand, I would. If those aren't available, it
would be a tough choice between 2H and 2NT (the last only if non-
forcing). My choice would depend partly on our agreements. I suppose
if it was still close I'd bid 2H on the grounds that it takes less
space and that I might have opened 2H. Note that even though I think
the strength and shape are OK for a 2S bid, I wouldn't do it: the
spades are so bad and the hearts are so good, and it will be tough to
get back to hearts.

Come to think of it, 2NT may play pretty poorly if they KO my diamond
entry early, so we'd need to be playing very sound openings for it to
be a reasonable alternative. (The only time my openings are that
sound is playing KS, but then I still wouldn't bid 2NT because (a) it
would be game-forcing; and (b) this hand would be right on strength
for 2C.)

So 1NT or 2C if this hand is OK on strength for one of those bids.
Otherwise 2H, except 2NT if our openings are very sound and 2NT is
only invitational. Really the only difference is that as a passed
hand, it's highly likely that either 1NT or 2C (and, in fact, 2C) is
right on strength, whereas as an unpassed hand, that's not the case.

Christopher Monsour

[Eric Leong]

On May 10, 10:50 am, Will in New Haven

I would rebid 2H rather than bid 1NT. If partner has some hearts 2H is
a decent spot. If partner is short in hearts I do not want to play
1NT. I want to play 2H. I plan to go to dummy and ruff some diamonds
in my hand. Playing 1NT opposite short hearts is going to have
problems with no entry to my hand after setting up some hearts.

Eric Leong

[Nick France]

On May 10, 1:50 pm, Will in New Haven

I'm rebidding 1NT. Second choice is 2H as it looks like a 6 card
suit.

Nick France

[Adam Beneschan]

On Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:50:18 AM UTC-7, Will in New Haven wrote:
> You are first to speak with
>
> TXX KQJ9X K TXXX
>
> and you pass. (anyone not pass?)

With my regular partner, I'd open 2H if NV.

> (the opponents pass throughout)
> Partner opens 1D
> You respond 1H (anyone have any other option?)
> Partner rebids 1S
>
> What is your next action?
> Would you do the same if you were not a passed hand?

I was leaning toward 1NT, but I think 2H might be better because if partner doesn't have either red ace, my heart suit is practically useless in a notrump contract, but it's chunky enough that I think I could handle a 5-1 trump fit. I don't think it's strong enough for 2C even as a passed hand, but that depends on agreements. It would be helpful to know the form of scoring. At matchpoints it might be better to play 1NT in case both contracts take the same number of tricks.

-- Adam

[Dave Flower]

Seems to me that there's a strong case for a pass, expacially at IMPs

Dave Flower

[dak...@aol.com]

Partner opened 1D in 3rd seat. That won't be a sub-minimum opener -
why start this fight with 10-11 without majors?
I rebid 2C (cannot be 4th SF by a passed hand).
Little hope this hand plays well unless 2C or 2H.

[derek]

On May 11, 11:01 am, "dak...@aol.com" <dak...@aol.com> wrote:
> Partner opened 1D in 3rd seat. That won't be a sub-minimum opener -

You think? My partner will frequently open 1D with sub-minimums in
3rd seat

> why start this fight with 10-11 without majors?

Which is a valid point, but trust me - people _do_ open 1D on sub-
minimums

> I rebid 2C (cannot be 4th SF by a passed hand).
> Little hope this hand plays well unless 2C or 2H.

That's just silly. 2S seems like the best spot if partner has a
minimum, and with a big hand (still a possibility), 4S could be the
right place even on a moysian.

[Adam Beneschan]

On Friday, May 11, 2012 1:16:05 AM UTC-7, Dave Flower wrote:
> On Thursday, 10 May 2012 18:50:18 UTC+1, Will in New Haven wrote:
> > You are first to speak with
> >
> > TXX KQJ9X K TXXX
> >
> > and you pass. (anyone not pass?)
> > (the opponents pass throughout)
> > Partner opens 1D
> > You respond 1H (anyone have any other option?)
> > Partner rebids 1S
> >
> > What is your next action?
> > Would you do the same if you were not a passed hand?
>

> Seems to me that there's a strong case for a pass, expacially at IMPs

I assume you're talking about responder's rebid (not your first-round pass). There are experts who play 1S as forcing in this auction, and those who don't play it as 99% forcing. That is, you're allowed to pass only with a real minimum dog and three-card support. This hand is way too good. The 1S rebid has a fairly wide range, so the chance of missing game is too good IMO. So I think passing is out of the question, especially at IMPs. Sure, it could work sometimes.

-- Adam

[Fred.]

The only case for a pass is if your partnership has an
alternative bid to 1S which is an artificial force. Otherwise,
opener's hand is limited only by the inability to jump shift.
Assuming partner has something in that diamond suit, you
have 9 working HCP and a strong 5-card major suit, facing as
much as 3 little hearts, 17-18 HCP, and a club stiff.

AKQx Txx Qxxxx A gives you various chances for game and
there is room to replace the dQ with the dA to make the game
chilly.

Pass could be a reasonable shooting action at match points where
missing a game can't get you worse than a bottom. But, the hand
and the heart suit are good enough for 2H even there.

Fred.

[vsp...@hotmail.com]

I used to be in the 1NT camp. Now I think
2H is the correct call. In hearts the heart
suit should win 3 to 4 tricks. In notrumps
the hearts will win only 1 or 2 tricks.
Therefore hearts play at least two tricks
better than notrumps.

[Eric Leong]

For example, the hands could be something like:

S Axxx
H x
D Qxxxx
C AKx

S 10xx
H KQJ9x
D K
C 10xxx

In 1NT, declarer has no tricks to contribute. Making 1NT is going to
be a struggle. But in 2H, declarer has the potential to contribute
four heart tricks. Making 2H is going to be much easier.

Eric Leong

[Chris xxxxx]

These are certainly concerns, but the auction doesn't have to end at
the two-level. After all, if I knew this was a partscore deal, I'd
pass 1S, which is an action that would score a zero on a bidding
panel. Similarly, another poster's argument for 2S, that the 4-3
spade fit may play very well, is missing the point. I think there's a
misplaced emphasis in most of the posts in this thread. 2S probably
won't end the auction, and it will get you to spades even when it's
wrong. I'd rather bid something else now, and spades next.

As for 2H vs 1NT, I prefer 2H also (though 2C if I am a passed hand),
but 2H playing better than 1NT is not one of my top reasons for that
preference. Those reasons are (a) that the hand is suit-oriented (all
the face cards in my or partner's primary suits); (b) that the hand is
a bit heavy on playing strength (note I did NOT say "playing strength
in notrump") for a 1NT rebid but not for a 2H rebid; and (c) that the
2H rebid warns partner to downgrade his hand if he is short in
hearts. And thus 2H is a more descriptive bid to help further the
auction. The fact that I will likely be better off in 2H than 1NT if
partner disappoints me by passing is just the icing on the cake...not
meaningless, but not as important. Even if partner will pass 60% of
the time, low-level contracts get balanced over, get random
misdefense, etc. Getting to the right place when partner keeps
bidding is more important, even at matchpoints, and very much so at
IMPs.

Christopher Monsour

[dak...@aol.com]

***
'silly' as "not worth trained mind to reason" OR "I throw a label
instead of engaging my mind"?
I'll assume your post meant engaging your mind. So I'll elaborate.
If partner does not rebid Pass, nor 2H over 2C, can I not prefer 2S
over 2D?
Is that getting to "2S seems like the best spot"?
Can I not raise 3S over 2S? Will we miss a big hand playing a Moysian?
Or 'silly' as not using 4th SF by a passed hand? You elaborate that
suggestion.

[derek]

On May 13, 8:03 am, "dak...@aol.com" <dak...@aol.com> wrote:
> On May 11, 11:31 am, derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 11, 11:01 am, "dak...@aol.com" <dak...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > Partner opened 1D in 3rd seat. That won't be a sub-minimum opener -
>
> > You think?  My partner will frequently open 1D with sub-minimums in
> > 3rd seat
>
> > > why start this fight with 10-11 without majors?
>
> > Which is a valid point, but trust me - people _do_ open 1D on sub-
> > minimums
>
> > > I rebid 2C (cannot be 4th SF by a passed hand).
> > > Little hope this hand plays well unless 2C or 2H.
>
> > That's just silly.  2S seems like the best spot if partner has a
> > minimum, and with a big hand (still a possibility), 4S could be the
> > right place even on a moysian.
>
> ***
> 'silly' as "not worth trained mind to reason" OR "I throw a label
> instead of engaging my mind"?

"Silly" as "you don't [yet] have any reason in the world to expect 2H
or 2C to be better places to play than 2S". And you likely won't find
further bidding giving you that reason.

> I'll assume your post meant engaging your mind. So I'll elaborate.
> If partner does not rebid Pass, nor 2H over 2C, can I not prefer 2S
> over 2D?

Of course you can - it's not _my_ fault you had already ruled out 2S
as a possible place to play.

[Will in New Haven]

Why wouldn't you _want_ to rule out 2S? If we have a Club stopper, as
is very likely, NT is likely to be better, with that Heart suit to use
for tricks and Hearts certainly figures to be better. If we don't have
a Club stopper, we are likely to be tapped in the wrong hand. If we
can find out enough about the hand, I wouldn't rule out 4S but I don't
think I want to play in Spades at this point.

[derek]

On May 13, 5:11 pm, Will in New Haven

I don't mind being in NT, so MY bid is 1N. What I object to is Jogs
assumption that he should bid 2C _because_ he wants to be in 2C or 2H
when 2S already seems likely to be better than either. I don't know
how you can blithely assume "hearts figures to be better". Sure you
have a good heart suit (but nothing else), while you already know you
have at least a 7-card fit in spades.

[derek]

Sorry, "Dake", not Jogs.

[Fred.]

The point about hearts is that if partner has two or more
hearts then hearts are likely your best suit. If partner
has a singleton heart, then your best chance at 3 or 4 heart
tricks is to make them trump.

Hearts work out facing a singleton at notrump only when
opener has both red aces. Even then if the oppponents
take the first round and shift to diamond then declarer
is unlikely to enjoy any of dummy's hearts. Declarer
now needs to take 6 more tricks from hand.

Fred.

[Will in New Haven]

However, the seven-card Spade fit is unlikely to be the best place to
play the hand. The temptation to play a Moysian fit should be avoided
when you are likely to be taking the tap in the wrong hand. It can
work out fine in a partscore but we are looking at a hand where we
would LOVE it if partner found another bid and we could get to game.

Of course partner could, with KQJX AXX AJXXX X, probe for a better
spot than Spades and thus reach the excellent 4H contract. However,
"he's raising my second suit with three" does not occur to many
players.

I had grounds for believing Brian was raising on three because he
hitched. So I had to discard that possibility and just bid 4S. The
opponents misdefended so we got an above-average board for +420.

[derek]

Absolutely - but you have no reason to expect that your partner has
two hearts, either. In your known 7-card spade suit, you have reason
to expect to be able to ruff into dummy at least once.

[Fred.]

Yes, but give opener, good top cards, say AKxx in spades and
you get say a ruff and the 4th spade in addition to the ace
and king for 4 tricks in the majors. Playing in hearts you
likely get the ace and king of spades and 3 hearts for 5 tricks
in the majors. If the spade tricks are slow, say QJT9, you get
two spade tricks you wouldn't get in hearts for two tricks in
the majors versus the three plus you get in hearts.

There are opening hands which will score better in spades than
in hearts, but most of them have an Ax or better heart fits and
a club stop. In these cases, the hearts will still be viable and
may be more likely to survive a bad break.

Fred.

[lowerline]

Op donderdag 10 mei 2012 19:50:18 UTC+2 schreef Will in New Haven het volgende:

Next action: 2C 4SF
Not passed hand: 1nt because of the black tens. I consider 2H a close second.

Steven

[Michael Tsang]

Will in New Haven wrote:

A sure 2H, at any position. The hearts are too good for me. If opener raise
it, I will happy to go to game. If opener bids the 4SF, then I would return to
spades.

[Co Wiersma]

Op 10-5-2012 19:50, Will in New Haven schreef:

I choose 2H as there I want to play most likely

Co Wiersma

[Steve Willner]

On 2012-05-10 1:50 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:
> You are first to speak with
> TXX KQJ9X K TXXX
> and you pass. (anyone not pass?)

2H is normal in some partnerships and conceivable in many.

> (the opponents pass throughout)
> Partner opens 1D
> You respond 1H (anyone have any other option?)
> Partner rebids 1S
> What is your next action?

Depends on system, but this looks too good to pass if opener is
unlimited. In standard bidding, 2H looks right to me. It might well be
our best contract even opposite a singleton. Make the H-9 a small one,
and I'd give a different answer!

--
Help keep our newsgroup healthy; please don't feed the trolls.
Steve Willner Phone 617-495-7123 swil...@nhcc.net
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA

[Lorne]

On 10/05/2012 18:50, Will in New Haven wrote:
> You are first to speak with
>
> TXX KQJ9X K TXXX
>
> and you pass. (anyone not pass?)

> (the opponents pass throughout)
> Partner opens 1D
> You respond 1H (anyone have any other option?)
> Partner rebids 1S
>
> What is your next action?

> Would you do the same if you were not a passed hand?
>
> --
> Will in New Haven

I would have opened 2H NV.

Now I bid 2H at any vul.