A WJ slam try?

[Frisbieinstein]

Red vs white, MPs

973
AQ7532
QJ72
-

LHO deals and passes, partner opens 1C Polish Club. The bidding goes

1C 1H
2NT(1) 3H
4H

So partner has 18+ HCP balanced and two hearts, without enough to move
to slam against the 6 HCP you have shown so far. Now what?

[castigamatti]

'Odwyrtka' (GF)

1C - 1H ( 7+ points )
2D - 3H
3S ( asks for shortness )

1C - 1H
2D - 3H
3N ( asks for a side four card suit )

1C - 1H
2D ( Odwyrtka - strong variant without four card support for partner
and a good suit to bid )

The alternative - 'Bubrotka' (GF)

1C - 1H
2D - 2H ( 4H, weak, 7-10 )
------2S ( 4H, strong, 11+ )
------2N ( 5H, strong, 11+ )
------3C ( 4H/5C , 9-11 )
------3D ( 4H/5D, 9-11 )
------3H ( 5H, weak, unbalanced )
------3S ( 5H, weak, balanced, 5332 )
------3N ( 6H+, weak )
------4 any ( 6H+, splinter, 7-10 )

The higher the response, the more precise the information.

1C - 1H
2D - 4C ( splinter, using Bubrotka )
etc.

Unbiddable with your methods. I would guess we have a diamond/ heart
double-fit.

B.R.

[castigamatti]

On Nov 24, 10:57 am, Frisbieinstein <patmpow...@gmail.com> wrote:

Anyway why not?

1C - 1H
2N - 3D Is it denying 6H? Is it showing 5-5?

B.R.

[~|_ukasz]

2009-11-24 11:53, castigamatti:

> On Nov 24, 10:57 am, Frisbieinstein <patmpow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Red vs white, MPs
>>
>> 973
>> AQ7532
>> QJ72
>> -
>>
>> LHO deals and passes, partner opens 1C Polish Club. The bidding goes
>>
>> 1C 1H
>> 2NT(1) 3H
>> 4H
>>
>> So partner has 18+ HCP balanced and two hearts, without enough to move
>> to slam against the 6 HCP you have shown so far. Now what?
>
>
> 'Odwyrtka' (GF)
>
> 1C - 1H ( 7+ points )
> 2D

Odwrotka.
Using this convention with 2-card support is considered
a serious bridge / WJ crime :)

[~|_ukasz]

2009-11-24 12:01, castigamatti:

or
1C - 1H
2N - 4C as autosplinter?

[castigamatti]

On Nov 25, 10:25 am, ~|_ukasz <lukasz_niespam...@atraNiespamic.pl>
wrote:

Well, I am not a practitioner anyway. Perhaps I will, not sure yet. A
variant perhaps?
:)

B.R.

[castigamatti]

On Nov 25, 10:29 am, ~|_ukasz <lukasz_niespam...@atraNiespamic.pl>
wrote:

Odwyrtka is a variant of Odwortka.

2D - strong variant without four card support and without a good suit
to bid
2N ( instead ) - strong variant with four card support for responder

> or
> 1C - 1H
> 2N - 4C as autosplinter?

Yes, with an agreement.

B.R.

[~|_ukasz]

2009-11-25 10:31, castigamatti:

2D promising support it is just a foundation of odwrotka and its
variations. It is tempting to use this relay with every strong
hand but it leads to more serious problems later and ruins system
consistency (any 5-card response agrees suit and that's extremly
important!).
It is a pity that in many WJ descriptions around it isn't clearly stated :)

2NT (balanced, no 3-card support) is perfect and then it is responder's
duty to evaluate his hand using given information (look, you know
more about suppport than in standard methods).

Anyway, it seems that we both agree that 3H wasn't the best bid :)
BTW - 3H must be positive (but balanced) so 4H is discouraging.

[castigamatti]

On Nov 25, 11:10 am, ~|_ukasz <lukasz_niespam...@atraNiespamic.pl>

This is a convention, different from odwortka, it switches some
meanings. This is from Krzysztof Jassem's book WJ 2005. Basically his
recommendation. 3C,3D bids showing a strong six card suit, five card
suits are going through 2D as I understand ( conventional, three
conventions are being mentioned by the author, Bubrotka and Odwyrtka
or Stepless Odwortka, Odworka has many artificial responses and it
does not have standard continuations ). Bubrotka and Odwyrtka are
popular deviations.

Cheers
B.R.

[castigamatti]

On Nov 25, 11:10 am, ~|_ukasz <lukasz_niespam...@atraNiespamic.pl>

Sorry I meant Odwrotka, not my language, but similar, the meaning of
the word is 'opening' isn't it?

B.R.

[~|_ukasz]

2009-11-25 11:30, castigamatti :

OK, I googled it. You are right - there is something called "odwyrtka"
- an invention of Jassem.
The problem is that it is very rarely used and, as you could see, often
unknown even to "native" WJ players :)
Other always promise support.

> Bubrotka and Odwyrtka are
> popular deviations.

Popular??? Believe me or not - they aren't, especially Odwyrtka.

BTW - WJ2005 is totally different from all other WJs, I would say
it should not be called WJ.

[boblipton]

On Nov 25, 4:29 am, ~|_ukasz <lukasz_niespam...@atraNiespamic.pl>
wrote:

Only if you want to wind up playing in clubs. Assume significan't
wastage. Maybe 5 Hearts.

Bob

[castigamatti]

On Nov 25, 4:16 pm, ~|_ukasz <lukasz_niespam...@atraNiespamic.pl>

I am not always right, but I am never wrong.
:)

B.R.

[Frisbieinstein]

On Nov 25, 6:10 pm, ~|_ukasz <lukasz_niespam...@atraNiespamic.pl>
wrote:

Not according to Jassem. As I recall he prescribes that suit isn't
necessarily agreed. I think he is right: there could easily be a
better fit than 5-3, especially since the weak hand doesn't promise
any honors. He DOES say that there should be at least 3 card support.

A feature of WJ2000 that is often missed is this sequence. 1C 1M 2C.
According to Jassem this is forcing and responder replies 2D as a game
force. Since responder knows nothing about shape this boils down to
responder bids 2D if he's got 10+ HCP.

This is useful -- or at least it would be useful if anyone played
that. Once I had a 24 HCP 1C opener. Responder bid 1S. I didn't want
to use Odwrotka. So.... how many HCP has he got? There was no way to
know. I could not bid 4NT to invite slam in notrump. There was no way
to find out. Probably a 2NT underbid would have been best. Maybe
somehow or the other I can get him to agree to NT and then invite.

[Player]

" Once I had a 24 HCP 1C opener.  Responder bid 1S. I didn't want
> to use Odwrotka.  So.... how many HCP has he got?  There was no way to
> know.

Why did you not want tio use Odwrotka if you had 3 card support? You
seem to be perverting the system.
On the given hand i would have auto splintered with 4C and then passed
a 4H response. That seems obvious to me.