You hold:

[Chris Pisarra]

Yes, another discussion with partner.

Nobody vul, RHO opens a strong NT and you hold:

? 8 6
? A J 7 6
? A K 4
? K Q 10 5


You are playing Meckwell, double is not penalty. (shows both majors or a
long minor)

2C would show Clubs and a Major

2NT would be minors

2H would be natural



Do you bid or pass? If you bid, what?

Thanks


Chris

[Adam Beneschan]

I think pass is clear, but would anyone back in after (1NT)-pass-(2H)-pass-(2S)-?

-- Adam

[HoneyMonster]

Agree there's nothing you can do at your first turn.
As to your question: Yes, I'm in with a takeout double.

[Lorne]

I would pass. If 2S comes round i will double.

[Nick France]

On Jun 14, 6:15 pm, "Chris Pisarra" <Ch...@Pisarra.com> wrote:
> Yes, another discussion with partner.
>
> Nobody vul, RHO opens a strong NT and you hold:
>
> ?    8 6
> ?    A J 7 6
> ?    A K 4
> ?    K Q 10 5
>
> You are playing Meckwell, double is not penalty. (shows both majors or a
> long minor)
>
> 2C would show Clubs and a Major
>
> 2NT would be minor
>

> 2H would be natural
>
> Do you bid or pass?  If you bid, what?
>
> Thanks
>
> Chris

Pass, both partner and opener's partner dont have much. 1NT is not
going to be a nice contract for declarer to play.

Nick France

[Charles Brenner]

While some people would say it'd be slightly better if we could double
for penalty with this hand instead of pass, some think the penalty
double is a losing proposition anyway lacking a source of tricks and
you should therefore be grateful that Meckwell, by forcing you to
pass, saves you from yourself. Even without taking sides, at worst
passing therefore puts you at a slight disadvantage to the field so it
can't be right to try the outrageous gamble of 2C without even a good
expectation of a fit.

[John Hall]

In article <kpg4mf$6sh$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,

What form of scoring? Even if it's Pairs, given our methods (which don't
seem to cater for a strong balanced hand) I think I have to pass. 2C is
the only alternative, but I don't like that with a 4-4. It would be
different if opponents were playing a Weak - rather than a Strong - NT,
when I'd feel compelled to take some action.
--
John Hall
"Sir, I have found you an argument;
but I am not obliged to find you an understanding."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

[Steve Willner]

> Nobody vul, RHO opens a strong NT and you hold:
>> ? 8 6
>> ? A J 7 6
>> ? A K 4
>> ? K Q 10 5

On 2013-06-15 12:54 AM, Charles Brenner wrote:
> it
> can't be right to try the outrageous gamble of 2C without even a good
> expectation of a fit.

That looks like an overbid to me, at least if the scoring is matchpoints
(which doesn't seem to be stated). Letting the opponents play 1NT _at
white_ (neither vul) is dreadful. The one thing to say for it is that
in the ACBL, all the other people holding this hand will face the same
problem. If I were playing in a weak NT field and facing a rare
strong-NT pair, I'd certainly bid 2C. 2C might well be right even here;
isn't Larry Cohen a big advocate of never letting opponents play 1NT if
there's any alternative?

Along with everyone else, I'm making a takeout double of 2S if I get the
chance.

--
Help keep our newsgroup healthy; please don't feed the trolls.
Steve Willner Phone 617-495-7123 swil...@nhcc.net
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA

[Fred.]

I thought it was fundamental that when playing an artificial
double of 1NT you would be passing balanced hands. The point
is that a hand qualifying for the natural double of a strong
no-trump is fairly rare, and a hand where the natural double
is markedly superior to a pass is even rarer.

I think on this hand a pass is clearly your best chance of a
plus score.

Fred.

[vsp...@hotmail.com]

On Friday, June 14, 2013 3:15:42 PM UTC-7, Chris Pisarra wrote:

Vul: none.

Your methods force you to bid 2C.
You don't get rich defending 1NT non-vul.

This also assumes pard is expected to pass
with clubs and not bid a major without 5.
2D by pard to allow you to show your major.

[Fred.]

You are not necessarily going to defend 1NT if you pass,
particularly if partner has some shape and hates the
idea of defending 1NT as much as you do. Bur, 2C will
tend to shut out partner's pointy suits. You have nice
support for diamonds and a far from terrible spade
dummy.

If partner is flattish, 2C may locate a 4-4 fit, but
partner will pass 2C with the expected 3-card club fit.
If you really expect to take a trick more playing clubs
under these conditions than defending 1NT this may be
right. My own experience is that declarer's advantage
doesn't count for that much with a flattish 4-3 fit.

Fred.

[Eric Leong]

With no systemic bid available what alternative is available but pass? Bidding on a hand partner will not play you for is almost certainly praying that you will get lucky. Passing is not necessarily going to be a bad board. But if passing turns out to be a bad board then either decide to drop Meckwell or take your zero like a man and accept the overall pluses in other situations.

Eric Leong

[Steve Willner]

>> Nobody vul, RHO opens a strong NT and you hold:
>>> > >> ? 8 6
>>> > >> ? A J 7 6
>>> > >> ? A K 4
>>> > >> ? K Q 10 5

On 2013-06-23 11:15 AM, Fred. wrote:
> You are not necessarily going to defend 1NT if you pass,
> particularly if partner has some shape and hates the
> idea of defending 1NT as much as you do. Bur, 2C will
> tend to shut out partner's pointy suits. You have nice
> support for diamonds and a far from terrible spade
> dummy.
>
> If partner is flattish, 2C may locate a 4-4 fit, but
> partner will pass 2C with the expected 3-card club fit.
> If you really expect to take a trick more playing clubs
> under these conditions than defending 1NT this may be
> right. My own experience is that declarer's advantage
> doesn't count for that much with a flattish 4-3 fit.

I don't disagree with this. If you look again at my initial comment, it
was an objection to the categorical statement that the "outrageous
gamble" of 2C "can't be right."

Nevertheless, I think you have to consider what your equity is in
passing. If you think it's almost certainly a bad score (as in my
example of a weak-NT field), then a gamble might not be so outrageous.
Even in a strong-NT field, I'm not as sanguine as Fred about partner
reopening with his likely 4-count. And if there's "declarer's
advantage," surely it applies to letting opponents play 1NT. Deep
Finesse might take the same number of tricks defending 1NT and playing
2C, but given this hand with no obvious lead, I'm not sure I will.
Notice also that 2C shows clubs and a major, so if partner is 4-4 in M
(and also some other shapes), we'll play 2H, not 2C.

All that said, in a typical ACBL game, I probably would pass, but I
wouldn't criticize a partner who chose 2C.

[Fred.]

Sorry. I misunderstood your position.

Fred.

[Fred.]

On Friday, June 14, 2013 6:15:42 PM UTC-4, Chris Pisarra wrote:

Whether or not 2C genuinely promises a 2-suited
hand is a key issue.

If the partnership approach is to bid a disruptive
2C as often as possible, and parking at a low
level whenever possible, then partner is not
going to go wild with a big fit and the downside
of 2C is limited.

If 2C promises a genuine 2-suiter, where partner is
invited to become aggressive, then the downside of 2C
is greater, not only in this hand, but in future hands
where partner might become slow to capitalize on a big fit.

Fred.

[Rick Covalciuc]

On Friday, June 14, 2013 6:15:42 PM UTC-4, Chris Pisarra wrote:

Pass. My partner with unbalanced no counts will bid 2S with say:
Kxxxxx, x,xxx,xxx if it goes 1NT,P,P 2S!