Weak 2 or pass?
Jordan
With both vul, partner and RHO pass and in third seat you hold the
following:
QJ87xx / x / QJx / Qxx.
Do you or don't you?
jonathan23
If the 2S bid is within our agreements, I think I'll make it.
If partner has his share of the outstanding values he must have some
Aces and/or Kings because I have most of the Quacks. If so, he'll
probably be able to help me out of the hole. He may have just the
10-11 HCP hand we need for a spade game and this is the only way he'll
know to put us there.
If partner doesn't have even that much the opps could very well have a
slam in another suit (hearts stands out, or maybe even clubs). If so,
LHO is riding on a moose and will hopefully act, thereby saving me
from myself.
If I need a good board, this looks like the way to give us a chance to
make it. If one board won't make much difference, why not?
Have Spades, will Pre-empt.
- Jon Campbell
Ottawa CANADA
Derek Broughton
Jordan wrote [Weak 2 or pass?]:
How come I only get two choices? The only choices I'm considering are
between 2 and 3 spades. 3 is a consideration specifically because 2S is
quite likely only a 5-card suit in third seat.
--
derek
henry...@yahoo.com
Pass, and here's why;
My hand while very offensive (I like QJ combinations for offense) is
not very defensive (Surely no spade tricks, and possibly no diamond
tricks). I don't have a fast entry back to hand and so the upshot of
opening 2s will be to push the opponents into a game that they are
very likely to make.
On the other hand, I do have 8 hcps and so if I pass, there is some
chance that the opponents will be scoring +170 instead of +620, or
+150 instead of +600.
It wouldn't be 'wrong' to open 2s, and I would certainly understand
why someone would so so, and if my hand were weaker, so that they
chances of them staying out of game were lower, I'd definitely open
2s.
But in my view, passing offers a better chance at a good score by not
pushing them into a thin making game on momentum.
Henrysun909
Dave Flower
Put it another way, do you want partner to lead A from Ax of hearts
against 4S ?
Dave Flower
Joachim Parsch
Yes. In fact, I don't really care too much what partner leads as
long as opponents try their luck in 4 Spades ;-)
Joachim
Nick France
Seems like a reasonable 2S bid to me unless you really require
something like 3 of the top 5 in your suit.
Nick France
sawdust
So, your hope is that your opponents will somehow
stumble into 4S, when they have a 10 card heart fit?
I know that some bridge players tend to be optimists,
but you are wildly so. ;-)
By extension of this logic, if you really want to get
that heart ruff, then your bid should be some number
of hearts here as a psych.
John
Fred.
I don't think most of us in the disciplined weak 2-bid camp carry it
into 3rd position. The only real question in 3rd seat is whehter or
not it's a reasonable tactical bid. Personally, I like 2S at match
points. If it's followed by 3 passes, partner is likely to have
enough cards for -100. But, I think I'd pass as IMP scoring or total
points. When I do get caught it will likely be big.
Fred,
Will in New Haven
I do, unless I am playing for a swing. I think the other pairs in the
field will be bidding 2S, except for a few who bid three and a few who
pass. I will take the field action when I don't think it's insane.
Henry has made a reasonable argument for passing and that makes it
_more_ likely that the pass is the right swing action.
--
Will in New Haven
Fred.
I agree that the choice is down to 2S and pass. I also think that 2S
is more likely to work against strong opponents who will consider the
possibility that you are bidding a 3rd seat 2S with opening count.
Fred.
Stu G
In most of the district NAP Flt A semi-finals it is a reasonable
strong field. I expect the field to open 2S with this hand. If you
go against the field, the opps are more likely to get to the right
spot and you will score a below avg. There is the lesser probability
that 2S will land you in hot water, in which case passing would have
been a good choice.
I'd go with the field on this one, though.
-Stu Goodgold
San Jose, CA
Raija D
"Jordan" <jc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Lcadnfi6ttybC5fW...@earthlink.com...
It is either 2 or 3 spades. I would not consider passing.
Collins
One thing I have experimented with recently is opening such hands
(strictly in 3rd seat) 1S.
The idea being to talk them out of their possible game by representing
an actual opening hand.
I've gotten a good board 2 out of 3 times I tried. (can't do it too
often w/o creating a ethical issue
for partner).
What do folks think of this approach?
Thanks
Collins
Will in New Haven
I had a partner who used to take this shot on occasion and it didn't
work out too badly most of the time. Of course, when it did work out
badly was when we could actually make some number of tricks in Spades
and he had to pass my response because to do otherwise would show an
opening bid.
Eric Leong
Against 4S, you shouldn't care what partner leads.
Eric Leong
Derek Broughton
I considered this close to 1S, so I should have asked for a fourth option,
but that Qxx is just a bit too much waste.
--
derek
boblipton
I do but with no sense that it will work out well nor do I insist on
it.
Bob
KWSchneider
NAP Flight A - this is a 3S opening in 3rd seat. Keeps 4th seat from
using 3S Western cuebid for 3N.
Cheers,
Kurt
castigamatti
Looks very crappy to me. 2S, only at MP's. Not a great trick taking
potential. A hand like S KQT9xx H x D Kxx C xxx is much better and
worthy bidding at any vulnerability or form of scoring.
B.R.
Frisbieinstein
wrote:
Hmm, that's interesting and thought-provoking, but I think I don't
agree. The way it would propel them into game would be if one of the
ops places more value on spade shortness. This is based on the
assumption that you have high cards in spades, which you don't. So if
it does push them into game, it is based on a false assumption and
that is good for us.
In other words, if they bid game based on a spade void then they are
likely to go down.
castigamatti
I do agree on this, however the problem is that your partner might
take your vulnerable 2S seriously and as a consequence bid 4S. Your
opponents will double with aces and a defensive trick in spades and it
won't be a happy ending. In a way by bidding with that hand you are
gambling for a possible top, unfortunately a bottom is a possible
outcome as well.
B.R.
OldPalooka
Early in the game against a seeded pair who we happen to play against
a lot, probably not. Against normal dogmeat probably yes. Possibly
3S against known idiots who can be counted on to overbid at least a
trick if you preempt [but beware, if it goes all pass your -200 will
not score well].
I find it bemusing that anyone can have a strong opinion on what to do
without being able to write several paragraphs about all three opps.
One thing I do know: if you open 2S against Hambone, you will not stop
him from bidding his game, and you will often gift him with a trick in
the play because as they said when I was a babe "Loose lips sink
ships."
-- Bill Shutts
castigamatti
Say it goes:
P - P - 2S - 3H;
4S Dbl all pass
QJ87xx / x / QJx / Qxx
Your partner holding S Kxx H xxxx D AK C Jxxx. Can you really blame
him for bidding 4S? Can you blame him for expecting a heart void or a
sound vulnerable preempt? Can you blame him for not opening in first
seat with a vulnerable 1C ? In the end your side loses 3 clubs, one of
those 3 being ruffed, 1 heart and 1 spade, for a disappointing total
of down two or -500, while the best your opponents can make is 2H.
While it is true he could have thought you have only five spades, it
is also true that there are no indications you are doing such a
foolish act at this vulnerability, he is right to assume you would
have opened 1S, a clever and well known low level third seat
'preempt'.
B.R.
Nick France
If partner is holding Kxx xxxx AK Jxxx and bids 4S over a 2S bid, I
will be very disappointed in partner. We don't have a game opposite a
normal 2S bid. At most we have 6 spades, 2 diamonds and one outside
trick that the 2 bidder provides for 9 tricks. This is a very easy
raise to 3S and you defend 4H. You may not beat 4H but you have
significant chances (1 spade, 2 diamonds and partner has an outside
trick. Also your 4 hearts may cause problems).
Nick France
Will in New Haven
My partners will bid 3S, not invitational, no guarantee to make or
pass. I don't play with idiots. Yes, I would blame him for bidding
four. They have eight or nine Hearts and we have eight or nine, almost
certainly nine I will admit, Spades.
castigamatti
This is not a normal weak two bid, this is a vulnerable 2S with
nothing wasted in hearts.
B.R.
castigamatti
Neither I.
B.R-
castigamatti
Give him this hand S AQxxxx H x D xxx C Kxx instead or this hand S
AJTxxx H x D QJxx C xx and see for yourself, 170 instead of 620 can be
very costly.
B.R.