Puppet Stayman, essential or doubtful value
Sam
including 2N rebid after opening 2C.
He said, what for, he opens 5 carder major, regardless. What is best
response to that comment? How should I react to that approach? What is
advantage of playing Puppet? Or disadvantage of opening the 5 carder major
irregardless?
For responder, what is best way to handle a hand holding 5 spades and 4
hearts?
Sam
Chris Ryall
We has a massive discussion of "5 card" puppet here 2 years ago.
see http://www.cavendish.demon.co.uk/bridge/debates/puppetry.htm
--
Chris Ryall Wirral UK
jll
The reason for opening 1NT with 5cM is what would you rebid if you open
1M with 15-17 hcp semi-balanced?
The same issue does not exist for 2N or 2C-?-2N. I would not open 2N
with 5cM -- too easy to miss game oposite a good fit while the same hand
would pass 2N.
Otis Bricker
I think that this will put you in the minority. I have found that even
folks who seldom open 1N with a 5cM, bid 2N freely with one.
What else do you do with 21 HCP and too many losers to open 2C?
Otis
Bill Jacobs
>I was trying to convince my pard to play Puppet Stayman over 2N opening
>bid including 2N rebid after opening 2C.
>He said, what for, he opens 5 carder major, regardless. What is best
>response to that comment? How should I react to that approach? What is
>advantage of playing Puppet? Or disadvantage of opening the 5 carder
>major irregardless?
If you are not going to open 2NT with a 5-card major, there is little point
in playing Puppet Stayman. Although die-hards will say that it makes the
strong hand declarer more often.
However, if you like many are nervous about opening 20-22 point hands with a
5-card major at the one-level, then Puppet Stayman is an essential tool.
>For responder, what is best way to handle a hand holding 5 spades and 4
>hearts?
Four options:
1. Find a specific mechanism in your system to show this difficult shape.
I once knew a pair that played 2NT-3NT as 5 spades and 4 hearts (they would
go through a Stayman mechanism to just get to 3NT). I don't recommend that
approach for several obvious reasons, but it can be done.
2. Transfer to spades and bid 3NT.
3. Transfer to spades and bid 4H.
4. Treat it as 4-4 in the majors and use Stayman.
Personally, I just choose between 2, 3, and 4 based on issues like suit
quality and my shape and strength in the minors.
Cheers ... Bill
Daisy
often referred to as the Benjamin system. This includes a multi 2C
opener which is either 20-22 balanced, or 8 playing tricks in any
suit. The relay response is 2D and bidding proceeds normally from
there. 2D is 23+ or game-force (i.e. a 4-loser hand).
(2H and 2S openers are weak - 6-10 pts and a 6-card suit and a
mini-mini-maxi-maxi response sequence is employed if partner replies
2NT showing 14+ pts.)
I have played this system with a number of partners both here in New
Zealand, but also in Australia and the UK without any problem. It
leaves the 2NT opener as a 20-22 unbalanced hand with usually (but not
always of course) a 5-card major.
I have found this system of bidding most satisfactory and it is now
frequently taught to novice players once they have completed beginners
lessons and had about 12 months competitive play.
Is this system a generally accepted international convention, does
anyone know?
Daisy
Sid Ismail
: I was trying to convince my pard to play Puppet Stayman over 2N opening bid
:
Ask your partner what he'd open with
K9xxx, AJx, AQ, AQx
I'd like to know.
If he says 1S, what is his expectation for a 1NT response from you? Then
tell him about "wrong-siding" NT contracts and the advantage of protecting
tenaces.
Sid
Sid
Kieran Dyke
"Sid Ismail" <el...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:d6iri0lnq1t9e8i33...@4ax.com...
play it with most of my expert partners and half of my clients. But in the
last five years I don't think I can remember a big gain from finding a five
card major in opener's hand. Five card majors in responder are far more
important, because if they're not trumps there may not be the entries to
establish and run the suits. 5-4 fits are great, but you find them while
you're hunting 4-4 fits anyway. 5-3s rarely generate the two extra tricks
you need. And in the meantime, the opponents are told more about opener's
suit length.
So, my suspicion is that the best method here is simple stayman with Smolen
to avoid wrongsiding. Still open 2NT with five card majors (even six,
occasionally), but don't regret missing 5-3 fits.
Tiggrr
Eric Sandberg
> I was trying to convince my pard to play Puppet Stayman over 2N opening bid
> including 2N rebid after opening 2C. He said, what for, he opens 5 carder
> major, regardless.
>
> What is best response to that comment?
"sure, that sounds fine" :)
> How should I react to that approach?
a) Just play what partner wants?
(It could be worse. He might want to play "Gerber when obvious." :)
b) Suggest that a ramification of his approach is that responder will
often need to stretch to make a response because you don't want to
miss a red game with 21 opposite the right 4. If a concrete rule makes
it easier, we suggest that (number of hcp) + (number of Roman
controls) = 6 is enough for a response. Thus, a hand with a bare ace
(4 hcp + 2 Roman controls) is enough to respond to a one level bid.
> What is advantage of playing Puppet?
> Or disadvantage of opening the 5 carder major irregardless?
> For responder, what is best way to handle a hand holding 5
> spades and 4 hearts?
(previous posts address these issues)
Note that it is usually helpful to discuss treatment of hands with 5
hearts and 4 spades as well when using Puppet Stayman. I suspect most
will use 2N:3D:3H:3S to show these hands, but it can be muddled if
undiscussed. I also suspect than many play PS without thorough
discussion of showing minor suit hands.
Eric
Ron Johnson
>>
>I'm not really convinced about puppet Stayman over 2NT openings. Sure, I
>play it with most of my expert partners and half of my clients. But in the
>last five years I don't think I can remember a big gain from finding a five
>card major in opener's hand.
I can't recall having seen one in all of the match reports I've read. And
I read pretty much every report out there. Kind of amusing, but the prettiest
puppet auction I've ever seen turned into a "lose two" (a brutal auction
at the other table followed by a "reasonable" save)
Having said that, it sure feels like it should matter. And I wouldn't
be surprised that I've missed one or two nice gains.
>Five card majors in responder are far more
>important, because if they're not trumps there may not be the entries to
>establish and run the suits. 5-4 fits are great, but you find them while
>you're hunting 4-4 fits anyway. 5-3s rarely generate the two extra tricks
>you need. And in the meantime, the opponents are told more about opener's
>suit length.
>
>So, my suspicion is that the best method here is simple stayman with Smolen
>to avoid wrongsiding.
You play Smolen with clients? My favorite convention -- for the opposition.
My matchpoint average is well over 80% in Smolen auctions. I've *never*
seen it gain and I've been on the good side of a huge number of accidents.
>Still open 2NT with five card majors (even six,
>occasionally), but don't regret missing 5-3 fits.
Nice to know there are better players than me who see it this way. Not
that anybody should care, but that's my position too.
--
RNJ
Chris Ryall
>I am not sure if the readers of this post are familiar with what is
>often referred to as the Benjamin system.
>Is this system a generally accepted international convention, does
>anyone know?
Played in every club in UK but I think rarely outside it. I hate it!
The 2D (GF) 2H (negative) response is particularly stultifying if
opener is strong in hearts. Worse with a side suit. Is 4x a new suit
or a cue bid?
BTW Benjamin was the main stimulus to 2C strong .. ParadoX responses.
Bill Jacobs
>I'm not really convinced about puppet Stayman over 2NT openings. Sure, I
>play it with most of my expert partners and half of my clients. But in
>the last five years I don't think I can remember a big gain from finding
>a five card major in opener's hand.
From the recent Australian National Championships:
Jxx Axx
AKQxx xxxx
QJ AK10xxx
AQJ -
Our auction:
2NT-3C
3H-5NT
7H-Pass
Simple. Of course, if you open 1H you should get there as well, but there's
a lot more sweat involved.
Edgar Kaplan always claimed that it was difficult to have good constructive
auctions after a 2NT opening, but my experience is the reverse.
Cheers ... Billo
Kieran Dyke
"Ron Johnson" <joh...@ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca> wrote in message
news:cgksps$h...@athena.ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca...
No, I don't play Smolen with clients. I'm not sure that anybody in Australia
plays Smolen at all. But a few clients have no problem with the
suit-switching in Puppet.
Tiggrr
Kieran Dyke
"Chris Ryall" <groups2@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:+koeXU00ekLBFwiT@[127.0.0.1]...
I saw a neato structure a while ago, using 2C and 2D as strong openings:
2C=23-24 balanced or primary clubs or primary hearts
2D=25+balanced or primary diamonds or primary spades
After 2C:2D, 2H shows hearts and everything else (including 3H) is natural
with primary clubs.
After 2D:2H, 2S shows spades and everything else (including 3S) is natural
with primary diamonds.
Certainly deals with rightsiding issues, as well as making a strong opening
much more appealing with a two suiter with a primary minor.
Tiggrr
Chris Ryall
>I saw a neato structure a while ago, using 2C and 2D as strong
>openings:
>
>2C=23-24 balanced or primary clubs or primary hearts 2D=25+balanced or
>primary diamonds or primary spades After 2C:2D, 2H shows hearts and
>everything else (including 3H) is natural with primary clubs. After
>2D:2H, 2S shows spades and everything else (including 3S) is natural
>with primary diamonds.
>
>Certainly deals with rightsiding issues, as well as making a strong
>opening much more appealing with a two suiter with a primary minor.
>
>Tiggrr
I've come across that in r.g.b (this year?) but not at the table.
Its an elegant solution, compact and efficient, right sides a lot of
contracts, and should make guessing after pre-emption a lot easier.
Has a bit of a Myxo feel to it? Without the weak options.
Chris Ryall
>Jxx Axx
>AKQxx xxxx
>QJ AK10xxx
>AQJ -
>
>Our auction:
>
>2NT-3C
>3H-5NT
>7H-Pass
>
>Simple. Of course, if you open 1H you should get there as well, but
>there's a lot more sweat involved.
An elegant auction. What happens on the other deals where responder
converts to 3NT and you have helped direct a spade or diamond lead?
That's real sweat!
Eric Leong
The chief advantage of using Puppet Stayman is the opponents have no
clue what opener's shape is like when he doesn't fit responder's four
card major. At pairs, this is a significant advantage when overtricks
are the difference between an average board and a great board. Also,
hiding opener's distribution may allow a 3NT contract to make that
might otherwise go set. The fact that the partnership may be able to
find a superior 5-3 major suit fit when opener has a five card major
is just a small additional dividend.
Eric Leong
John Hoffman
Bill Jacobs wrote:
> "Sam" <ste...@cox.net> wrote in <hT6Xc.103095$Lj.90037@fed1read03>:
>
>
>>I was trying to convince my pard to play Puppet Stayman over 2N opening
>>bid including 2N rebid after opening 2C.
>>He said, what for, he opens 5 carder major, regardless. What is best
>>response to that comment? How should I react to that approach? What is
>>advantage of playing Puppet? Or disadvantage of opening the 5 carder
>>major irregardless?
>
>
> If you are not going to open 2NT with a 5-card major, there is little point
> in playing Puppet Stayman. Although die-hards will say that it makes the
> strong hand declarer more often.
>
> However, if you like many are nervous about opening 20-22 point hands with a
> 5-card major at the one-level, then Puppet Stayman is an essential tool.
>
>
>>For responder, what is best way to handle a hand holding 5 spades and 4
>>hearts?
>
>
> Four options:
>
> 1. Find a specific mechanism in your system to show this difficult shape.
> I once knew a pair that played 2NT-3NT as 5 spades and 4 hearts (they would
> go through a Stayman mechanism to just get to 3NT). I don't recommend that
> approach for several obvious reasons, but it can be done.
This is called The Palo Alto variation in our area. It's common enough
to be a good discussion point in pickup partnerships.
It is indeed easy to forget this meaning of 2N-3N at the table. The
upside: as a passable bid, a mistake by either partner often does not
cost much.
-- John Hoffman
Mountain View, CA
John Hoffman
jll wrote:
> The reason for opening 1NT with 5cM is what would you rebid if you open
> 1M with 15-17 hcp semi-balanced?
>
> The same issue does not exist for 2N or 2C-?-2N. I would not open 2N
> with 5cM -- too easy to miss game oposite a good fit while the same hand
> would pass 2N.
>
I think 1 of a major is likely to lead to more missed games, but I do
like to find big fits.
I force to game with all 5 hcp hands and most 4 counts after partner
opens 2N with 20-21 points. I pass 1H or 1S with no support on some 5
counts, and most 4 counts.
Frans Buijsen
>>hearts?
>
>
> Four options:
>
> 1. Find a specific mechanism in your system to show this difficult shape.
> I once knew a pair that played 2NT-3NT as 5 spades and 4 hearts (they would
> go through a Stayman mechanism to just get to 3NT). I don't recommend that
> approach for several obvious reasons, but it can be done.
This is the standard approach in Niemeijer, the Dutch variation of
Puppet Stayman after 2NT openings, which is squarely aimed at always
getting opener to be declarer. It is played by a majority of Dutch
players at nearly all levels, though some keep this option out because
of the high risk of forgetting it at the table when partner makes the
bid. Probably over 90% of experts play this way.
--
Frans Buijsen (Amsterdam, The Netherlands)
.. Mail to the address above is not read. Try this address instead: ..
.. fab dot usenet at unetmail.nl ..
Collins Williams
"Eric Leong" <ewleo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:db571a5d.04082...@posting.google.com...
Ok, that is the chuef advantage. What is the cost? I haven't seen
anyone really address that. Are there seqences that you must give up or
hand shapes that become worse or is it the memory space issue?
Collins
Bill Jacobs
news:2piobpF...@uni-berlin.de:
> Bill Jacobs wrote:
>> "Sam" <ste...@cox.net> wrote in <hT6Xc.103095$Lj.90037@fed1read03>:
>>
>>>For responder, what is best way to handle a hand holding 5 spades and
>>>4 hearts?
>>
>>
>> Four options:
>>
>> 1. Find a specific mechanism in your system to show this difficult
>> shape. I once knew a pair that played 2NT-3NT as 5 spades and 4
>> hearts (they would go through a Stayman mechanism to just get to 3NT).
>> I don't recommend that approach for several obvious reasons, but it
>> can be done.
>
> This is the standard approach in Niemeijer, the Dutch variation of
> Puppet Stayman after 2NT openings, which is squarely aimed at always
> getting opener to be declarer. It is played by a majority of Dutch
> players at nearly all levels, though some keep this option out because
> of the high risk of forgetting it at the table when partner makes the
> bid. Probably over 90% of experts play this way.
>
Well I'm more than a little surprised.
While forgetfulness can be overcome, I was more concerned about the
information given when responder has to go through puppet, rather than
provide the blind auction 2NT-3NT.
But obviously, the Dutch haven't found this to be a big issue.
Cheers ... Bill
Barry Margolin
"Collins Williams" <cwilliams...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> Ok, that is the chuef advantage. What is the cost? I haven't seen
> anyone really address that. Are there seqences that you must give up or
> hand shapes that become worse or is it the memory space issue?
You lose the ability to use Smolen over 2NT.
--
Barry Margolin, bar...@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
jll
Collins Williams wrote:
There is at least one:
You loose Garbage Stayman -- You can't bid 2C with a worthless hand and
2 clubs or less.
>
HANS HEHNKE
news:413478F6...@sympatico.ca...
The issue with "Garbage Stayman" is what you lose after interference of
Stayman, and what losses are sustained without interference by cramping a
natural auction. Specifically when 4-5-3-1, or so. If Stayman promises
values, you have an easy 2H rebid after: 1NT-2C; 2D. Playing 'Smolen', you
end at the 3 level on this invitational hand when it is wrong to be there.
I'm still waiting for some substantial data supporting the gains from
"Garbage Stayman", which I believe to be more theoretical than real.
Sandy Barnes
Arthur Hoffman
bust after partner opens 1NT. I am talking about the Woolsey version of
Puppet Stayman where 2D by opener only says "no 5 card major", not the
Lawrence version, in which 2D by opener has the additional message that
opener has a least one 4 card major.
If opener happens to *have* a 5 card major, responder can now choose to pass
in that contract or bid 3D to play (in the Woolsey version, which I know. I
don't know what this bid means in the Lawrence version).
jll
Arthur Hoffman wrote:
With the Woolsey verion, how do you show a major 4th? 2NT?
When playing Puppet, as responder, you *must* have at least inviting value.
When not playing Puppet, you can (must) bid 2C with a hand with < 4hcp like:
xxx xxxx xxxx xx
xxxx xxx xxxx xx
xxxx xxxx xxxx x
xxxx xxxx xxxxx -
Any suit contract will be better than 1NT. With one of those hand 1NT
will go down for sure when 2x can make.
Of course, if you have a major 5th, you just transfer and pass.
Jean-Luc
Arthur Hoffman
After 1NT (P) 2C* (P) 2D** (P), from Woolsey's "Puppet Stayman Revisited"
article in The Bridge World, "responder bids the major he doesn't have, or
NT at the appropriate level with both majors; and opener is in position to
choose the proper strain without revealing his distribution to the
opponents."
>
> When playing Puppet, as responder, you *must* have at least inviting
value.
Except when you have the aforementioned diamond bust hand. IMO it is a push
debating whether the availability of garbage stayman is better than the
advantage puppet stayman has to play 2D from opener's side. It is
essentially a transfer to diamonds at the 2 level. No convention I know of
has this feature after an opening 1NT.
>
> When not playing Puppet, you can (must) bid 2C with a hand with < 4hcp
like:
> xxx xxxx xxxx xx
> xxxx xxx xxxx xx
> xxxx xxxx xxxx x
> xxxx xxxx xxxxx -
>
> Any suit contract will be better than 1NT. With one of those hand 1NT
> will go down for sure when 2x can make.
Perhaps.
> Of course, if you have a major 5th, you just transfer and pass.
This is also available in puppet stayman.
The main advantage to puppet stayman (moreso in Woolsey's version vs. the
Lawrence version) is that opener's distribution is not disclosed to the
opponents, without giving up all the advantages of vanilla NT bidding
(stayman, transfers, etc.). Also, puppet facilitates opening 1 NT with a 5
card major.
jll
Fine but you did not answer my question. What does openner bid with a 4
card major with the Woolsey version of Puppet Stayman? What does he bid
without a 4 card major?
Your senario is good only with a diamond bust.
How about:
xxxx xxxx xxxx x ?
xxx xxxx xxxx xx ?
xxxx xxx xxxx xx ?
Garbage Stayman allows you to play 2D or 2H or 2S.
Jean-Luc
Nigel
>> Is [Benjamin] a generally accepted convention?
> [Chris Ryall]
> Played in every club in UK but I think rarely
Albert Benjamin (Scottish International) invented
it but does not play it. but in the UK, almost
everybody else does. I've played it (with a variant
of Paradox responses), for nearly 20 years.
Jean-Luc Lachance
>
>>Fine but you did not answer my question. What does openner bid with a 4
>>card major with the Woolsey version of Puppet Stayman?
>
>
> After 1NT (P) 2C* (P) 2D** responder bids 2H if he has 4 spades or 2S if he
> has 4 hearts. Opener now has a number of bids available (max or min) if he
> fits the major responder has. Depending which one is bid, responder
> advances or signs off as appropriate.
>
>
OK now I get it. 2D only means no 5 card major -- does not deny nor
promise 4 card major. I presume responder will bid 3D if he holds both
major.
Still, you loose garbage stayman. You can only play a diamond bust.
On top of that, you cannot play smolen either.
How would you bid weak 5+5 or 5+4 in the majors?
Jean-Luc
> What does he bid
>
>>without a 4 card major?
>
>
> If responder has no major, he bids 2H (presumably showing spades). If
> opener bids 2S (a minimum NT with 4 spades), responder now bids 2 NT when he
> has the 1NT-2NT invitational hand. If opener has a max with 4 spades, he
> raises responder's 2H bid to 3H. Responder now bids 3 NT without 4 spades
> or 4H with 4 spades which opener converts to 4S. All these maneuvers
> preserve right-siding the contract.
>
>>Your senario is good only with a diamond bust.
>>How about:
>> xxxx xxxx xxxx x ?
>> xxx xxxx xxxx xx ?
>> xxxx xxx xxxx xx ?
>>
>>Garbage Stayman allows you to play 2D or 2H or 2S.
>
>
> Very true. But what happens when opener has xxx xxx xx xxxxx distribution?
> He plays 2D in a 4/2 fit, right? Moreover, the defence usually leads trump
> when garbage stayman is sensed. That's not good for the declarer sometimes
> because the contract is more like playing NT but one level higher. On
> balance there might be a slight gain for garbage stayman, but many posters
> have questioned its merits. As for me, having played puppet stayman for
> almost 30 years with one partner, our results have been very good. With
> other partners, playing garbage stayman, the results aren't nearly as
> satisfying.
>
>>Jean-Luc
>>
>
>
>
Chris Ryall
>There is at least one:
>
>You loose Garbage Stayman -- You can't bid 2C with a worthless hand and
>2 clubs or less.
Opposite half the pack, I'd regard garbage Stayman as of 'doubtful
value'.
It is *very* useful opposite a standard UK 12-14 1NT, more so opposite
minis!
But even some of our strong 1NT pairs prefer puppetry to garbage 2C
manoeuvres.
Gerben Dirksen
> Bill Jacobs wrote on "Puppet Stayman, essential or doubtful value"
> >Jxx Axx
> >AKQxx xxxx
> >QJ AK10xxx
> >AQJ -
> >
> >Our auction:
> >
> >2NT-3C
> >3H-5NT
> >7H-Pass
> >
> >Simple. Of course, if you open 1H you should get there as well, but
> >there's a lot more sweat involved.
>
> An elegant auction. What happens on the other deals where responder
> converts to 3NT and you have helped direct a spade or diamond lead?
Really they were going to lead a heart into your AKQxx if you hadn't
used puppet Stayman.
If you don't want to use it on a particular hand (say Axx xxx xxx
Kxxx) then don't. Bid 3S (transfer to 3NT), end. And somehow they
still lead a diamond...
Gerben
mara...@prodigy.net
I'm, for the most part, in agreement with Tiggrr. My usual rule is to
open 1NT or 2NT (when it's natural) with a 5-card major, only when I
would need 4-card support from partner. You can use your own
discression to decide what this means. My interpretation is either a
suit that is so good (AKQxx) that no 3-card support would really help
unless partner has shortness someplace, or a suit that is so bad
(QTxxx) that 3-card support without shortness will likely not be
sufficient.
My experience is that, when your judgement says that you had better
open 1NT or 2NT with a 5-card major, you seldom miss 5-4 or 5-5 fit
and the 5-3s that you do miss, are often the right ones to play in no
trump.
One gimick that I have used (and seen used by others) is to run
balanced hands through Stayman after a 2NT opener and reserve the 3NT
response for the troublesome 4=5=2=2 hand. You could, with some
discussion, run the major hands that are 5-4 (either way) through the
3S response (what good is a 4D rebuttal in 2NT-3S-3NT-4D?)
Kieran Dyke
"Gerben Dirksen" <gerb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fdd91651.04090...@posting.google.com...
> Chris Ryall <groups2@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:<nO34tD7KytLBFwzr@[127.0.0.1]>...
> > Bill Jacobs wrote on "Puppet Stayman, essential or doubtful value"
> > >Jxx Axx
> > >AKQxx xxxx
> > >QJ AK10xxx
> > >AQJ -
> > >
> > >Our auction:
> > >
> > >2NT-3C
> > >3H-5NT
> > >7H-Pass
> > >
> > >Simple. Of course, if you open 1H you should get there as well, but
> > >there's a lot more sweat involved.
> >
> > An elegant auction. What happens on the other deals where responder
> > converts to 3NT and you have helped direct a spade or diamond lead?
>
> Really they were going to lead a heart into your AKQxx if you hadn't
> used puppet Stayman.
You'd be surprised. They could decide to lead passively. Or it could just be
fourth best from their longest and strongest. But once you announce five
hearts, that lead is out.
Tiggrr
Bill Jacobs
>
>"Gerben Dirksen" <gerb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:fdd91651.04090...@posting.google.com...
>> Chris Ryall <groups2@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
>news:<nO34tD7KytLBFwzr@[127.0.0.1]>...
>> > Bill Jacobs wrote on "Puppet Stayman, essential or doubtful value"
>> > >Jxx Axx
>> > >AKQxx xxxx
>> > >QJ AK10xxx
>> > >AQJ -
>> > >
>> > >Our auction:
>> > >
>> > >2NT-3C
>> > >3H-5NT
>> > >7H-Pass
>> > >
>> > >Simple. Of course, if you open 1H you should get there as well,
>> > >but there's a lot more sweat involved.
>> >
>> > An elegant auction. What happens on the other deals where
>> > responder converts to 3NT and you have helped direct a spade or
>> > diamond lead?
>>
>> Really they were going to lead a heart into your AKQxx if you hadn't
>> used puppet Stayman.
>
>You'd be surprised. They could decide to lead passively. Or it could
>just be fourth best from their longest and strongest. But once you
>announce five hearts, that lead is out.
>
This is all very well, but what's the relevance of this thread? If you open
1H, you convey the same information about hearts anyway.
Cheers ... Bill
Chris Ryall
>> Really they were going to lead a heart into your AKQxx if you hadn't
>> used puppet Stayman.
> You'd be surprised. They could decide to lead passively. Or it could
>just be fourth best from their longest and strongest. But once you
>announce five hearts, that lead is out. Tiggrr
Are Oz National championships played at match points? If so I'd have
though a good player was more likely to attempting to lead passively
into the teeth of the 2NT opener. Say from Qxxx xx xx Kxxxx
Kieran Dyke
"Chris Ryall" <groups2@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
All of the Australian events worth playing are IMPs (some IMP pairs), except
for one decent matchpoint event (the Gold Coast Pairs).
Weird to lead passively from a 4225. Club lead looks automatic. You have to
try to beat it somehow. Heart lead could pick up QTxx or Jxxx or a million
other holdings. Looks destructive rather than passive.
However, a 4333 type might easily try a T9x or JTx lead in a major, even one
which is known to be on the right. Even at teams - if there are no long
suits around and you don't know what suit to attack, a passive lead might
work out OK. But not when RHO has FIVE cards in the major.
Tiggrr
Robert Park
HANS HEHNKE wrote:
<snip>
>
> I'm still waiting for some substantial data supporting the gains from
> "Garbage Stayman", which I believe to be more theoretical than real.
>
> Sandy Barnes
Hmmmm....Did you intend this speculation to apply to weak 1NTs as well?
I find the "scrambling" version extremely useful as an advance runout here.