Last 3 Boards - Difference Between 1st and 2nd - Intermediate Bidding Decisions

[Tom]

Duplicate at the senior centre, playing SAYC

Against the best pair in the club (I know, it's the senior centre, so
bridge is inconsistent, but they truly are awesome)

This was the last round and we got three bottom boards. We were having
an amazing round and ended up 2nd, missing first by 1/2 %.

Each of the main blunders look like they were mine.

I appreciate these are pretty elementary bidding decisions. Even so,
I'd be grateful for advice about what my thinking should have been in
each of these scenarios.

Board 1:

Both Vul
West dealt

I was E and held

xxx
Qxxxx
Kx
Kxx

W N E S

1C* 2C** P 2S
P 3C ?

* could be short
** Natural

South had a balanced 7 points (mostly jacks and
a 5 card spade suit.
North had a 7 card club suit.
Partner had a balanced 14 with a 4 card heart suit.

I passed. They made 3C for a top.

If the 2S bid had not been made, which I'm thinking not everyone would
have made, then we would have had no problem reaching a heart contract.
P would have doubled to reopen.

Everyone else is at some level of hearts our way, making 4.

Am I right that the mistake was mine? Was the first pass correct? Even
so, I think I should I have bid 3H over 3C. It's pretty clear that P
doesn't have clubs, so there's got to be a heart fit.

(Even if you don't find the other hands of any interest, this is the one
I'd really like to have comments about).




Board 2:

NS Vul

I held

xxx
AQx
109xxx
Kx


W N E S

- P P 1S
P P 2D 2H
3D - - Dble

Down 1 for a bottom board. Was it reasonable to balance with 2D in the
pass out position?

I've flipped the layout, so I'm South. Hope this makes it easier to
follow (let me know if this is a stupid idea).

Qxx
x
A8x
AQxx

AKxxx xx
Jxxx Kxx
KQx Jx
x Jxxxxx
xxx
AQx
109xxx
Kx

The play was:

-AK of spades
-spade ruff
-heart return (winning finesse of the Q)
-I ruffed a heart
-AD
-low diamond from dummay, won by QD

...no play after this - down 1.



Board 3:

E-W vul.

I was E and held

AKxx
Axx
Ax
xxxx


W N E S

- - 1N X
P 2C P 2H
3D 3H Dble P
P P

Was my double insane? I had hopes that P had a trick, or I might get a
D ruff or P might get a club ruff.

But...

...dummy had the singleton diamond.

...Declarer had the singleton club.

And they made it....

Here were the hands:

xx
Jxxx
x
KQJ10xx


xxx AKxx
x Axx
KQxxxxx Ax
xx xxxx



QJ10x
KQxxx
xxx
A


The play went

- DK (won by me with the A)
- club return won by declarer with AC
- low heart to JH on the board, won by me with AH
- cashed AS and KS
- club return, ruffed by D

...game over

[Travis Crump]

I would have done the same. There are a lot of ways to imagine that
other tables weren't faced with the same problem so I'm not sure the
other results mean much in the grand scheme of things. I can see the
argument for 3H on the second round, but I wouldn't. I could easily see
it going CA, club ruff, entry, club ruff, and the defense gets 2 more
tricks in the wash. Or even down 1 against 3C down 1 seems likely. We
likely need to catch 4 card support for it to work out since an 8-card
fit on roughly 20 points with 2 balanced hands and wastage in their
suit... But then I don't usually play a short club.

It actually sort of sounds like partner doesn't even have a short club
since 1D-(2C) is more likely to give other tables a similar problem[and
1D-(3C) will likely be an even harder problem], but most pairs will be
forced to pass over 1C. If a number of pairs are playing weak NTs or
for some reason chose to upgrade partner's hand the auction is also much
easier.

>
>
> Board 2:
>
> NS Vul
>
> I held
>
> xxx
> AQx
> 109xxx
> Kx
>
>
> W N E S
>
> - P P 1S
> P P 2D 2H
> 3D - - Dble
>
> Down 1 for a bottom board. Was it reasonable to balance with 2D in the
> pass out position?
>

I've had good results passing out hands like this. Since partner
couldn't double it is unlikely they are in a fit. Perhaps partner hung
you a little bit, but it is hard to blame him depending on what exactly
his hand was. It's also unlucky west doubled with essentially a minimum
opener.

> I've flipped the layout, so I'm South. Hope this makes it easier to
> follow (let me know if this is a stupid idea).
>
> Qxx
> x
> A8x
> AQxx
>
> AKxxx xx
> Jxxx Kxx
> KQx Jx
> x Jxxxxx
> xxx
> AQx
> 109xxx
> Kx
>
> The play was:
>
> -AK of spades
> -spade ruff
> -heart return (winning finesse of the Q)
> -I ruffed a heart
> -AD
> -low diamond from dummay, won by QD
>
> ...no play after this - down 1.
>
>

I tried giving North 3 hearts to get him to 13 cards, and the heart suit
to 13 cards, but this doesn't seem to gel with the play description.

I think double is reasonable. I would have pulled 1NX with the West
hand, I think his auction suggests slightly more points and less extreme
distribution. Might depend on exactly what your methods were.

[Thomas Dehn]

Passing out 3C is correct.

> Board 2:
>
> NS Vul
>
> I held
>
> xxx
> AQx
> 109xxx
> Kx
>
>
> W N E S
>
> - P P 1S
> P P 2D 2H
> 3D - - Dble

This hand should not reopen with 2D.
It is likely that

> Board 3:
>
> E-W vul.
>
> I was E and held
>
> AKxx
> Axx
> Ax
> xxxx
>
>
> W N E S
>
> - - 1N X
> P 2C P 2H
> 3D 3H Dble P
> P P
>
> Was my double insane? I had hopes that P had a trick, or I might get a
> D ruff or P might get a club ruff.

I don't understand W's pass over 1NT on his D KQxxxxx.
Your side can make 3NT.

What was double of 1NT?


Thomas

[Eric Leong]

It is difficult to get hearts into the picture but I would have
doubled 3C for the same bottom. The difference is if 3C is going down
you want to make sure your side gets a top.

I don't know what your question is other that you are missing some
cards in the deal.

Why didn't partner bid 4D at some time? Your double showed aces and
kings and not a trump stack.

Eric Leong

[derek]

On May 4, 12:15 am, Tom <toman...@notmye-mailaddress.com> wrote:

> Each of the main blunders look like they were mine.

Always a constructive place to start :-)

> I appreciate these are pretty elementary bidding decisions.  Even so,
> I'd be grateful for advice about what my thinking should have been in
> each of these scenarios.
>

> Both Vul
> West dealt
>
> I was E and held
>
> xxx
> Qxxxx
> Kx
> Kxx
>
> W        N         E       S
>
> 1C*      2C**      P       2S
> P        3C        ?
>
> * could be short
> ** Natural

> Am I right that the mistake was mine?

Probably.

>  Was the first pass correct?  Even
> so, I think I should I have bid 3H over 3C.  It's pretty clear that P
> doesn't have clubs, so there's got to be a heart fit.

I would have doubled, as would many, but some believe you need both
majors. It's much harder to come in at the three level, but he can't
be expecting too much of you, anyway, since you _did_ pass, so I'd say
if you're sure there must be a heart fit, you should be showing your
hearts _somwhere_.

>
> NS Vul
>
> I held
>
> xxx
> AQx
> 109xxx
> Kx
>
> W        N          E         S
>
> -        P          P       1S
> P        P          2D      2H
> 3D       -          -       Dble
>
> Down 1 for a bottom board.  Was it reasonable to balance with 2D in the
> pass out position?

2D should probably be a better suit (if N buys the contract, do you
really want a diamond lead?), but I don't see this being unreasonable.
It's hard to see how 1S shouldn't be making at least 110 when W had no
bid, so -100 should be fine.

>
> I've flipped the layout, so I'm South.  Hope this makes it easier to
> follow (let me know if this is a stupid idea).

You really need to show the bidding consistent with the hands...
Anyway, "N" is short two cards which is a clear RGB violation (he's
permitted extras, but certainly not 11). It looks like it should be H
xxx, but who has the JS? Assuming it really is a 3 card heart suit,
then it's your partner's fault. I'd double 1S.

>                           Qxx
>                           x
>                           A8x
>                           AQxx
>
> AKxxx                                            xx
> Jxxx                                             Kxx
> KQx                                              Jx
> x                                                Jxxxxx
>                           xxx
>                           AQx
>                           109xxx
>                           Kx

> Board 3:
>
> E-W vul.
>
> I was E and held
>
> AKxx
> Axx
> Ax
> xxxx
>
> W        N         E         S
>
> -        -         1N       X
> P        2C        P        2H
> 3D       3H        Dble     P
> P        P
>
> Was my double insane?  I had hopes that P had a trick, or I might get a
> D ruff or P might get a club ruff.

Pretty much. Not because you shouldn't be in 3HX, but because it's
your partner's place to decide. He knows what you have, you don't
have a clue if he has anything.

[Tom]

>>
>> Board 2:
>>
>> NS Vul
>>
>> I held
>>
>> xxx
>> AQx
>> 109xxx
>> Kx
>>
>> W        N          E         S
>>
>> -        P          P       1S
>> P        P          2D      2H
>> 3D       -          -       Dble
>>
>> Down 1 for a bottom board.  Was it reasonable to balance with 2D in the
>> pass out position?
>>
>

>I don't know what your question is other that you are missing some
>cards in the deal.
>

Sorry about the missing cards. I seriously messed up the hands. At this
point, I've screwed this up so bad, best not to repost a correction.

I will definitely smarten up and next post make sure no card shortages (or
extras).

[Balrog]

In article <4fa349d0$0$32217$c3e8da3$670b...@news.astraweb.com>,
toma...@notmye-mailaddress.com says...

1. Even though 1C-2C natural is extremely rare, you need a partnership
agreement to handle it. A "negative" double that simply shows some cards
might be good choice. You should also look up how the Roman Club system
handles it. In Roman, 1C is an artificial balanced 12-16 or a strong
two-bid type of hand.

2. I wouldn't balance with that hand even against a weak pair. A 5332
nine-count with a bad five-card suit isn't enough.

3. You need a partnership agreement to handle two-suited interference
over a strong notrump - assuming 2C showed majors or something of that
ilk. There are many existing ones to choose from or you can invent your
own. In any case, your partner must have a way to bid a weak hand with a
long suit.

[Co Wiersma]

Op 4-5-2012 5:15, Tom schreef:

If you dont want to bid at the twolevel , when partner opened and only
one opponent intervened
why would you want to bid at the 3 level when both opponents has bid?

I would have done something in the first round
even 2H if we play neg freebid
(risky, I know)
or else double
but after pass , I see no reason to come in later

Co Wiersma

[Nick France]

On Bd 1, I'd make a negative double of 2C. Once you failed to do this
you are fixed and have no choice but to pass when it comes back to
you.

Nick

[Nick France]

On May 3, 11:15 pm, Tom <toman...@notmye-mailaddress.com> wrote:

> Duplicate at the senior centre, playing SAYC
>
> Against the best pair in the club (I know, it's the senior centre, so
> bridge is inconsistent, but they truly are awesome)
>
> This was the last round and we got three bottom boards. We were having
> an amazing round and ended up 2nd, missing first by 1/2 %.
>
> Each of the main blunders look like they were mine.
>
> I appreciate these are pretty elementary bidding decisions.  Even so,
> I'd be grateful for advice about what my thinking should have been in
> each of these scenarios.
>

On Bd 3, its a case of bidding your same values more than once. You
are the notrump bidder and partner knows your range. He didn't
promise anything but long diamonds. Also, it would seem we need an
explanation of the opponents bidding as the double seems to be a
convention of some sort.

Nick France

[Bud H]

On May 3, 11:15 pm, Tom <toman...@notmye-mailaddress.com> wrote:

On your last hand, you should definitely continue diamonds at trick 2
so dummy has to ruff. When in with the heart ace, keep leading
diamonds so if dummy ruffs again, it has less trumps than you so
declarer won't be able to draw trumps ending in dummy and use the suit.

[Adam Beneschan]

> On Bd 1, I'd make a negative double of 2C. Once you failed to do this
> you are fixed and have no choice but to pass when it comes back to
> you.

This looks right to me, but if you're going to make a negative double, you have to plan for this auction:

1C (2C) X pass
2S pass ?

If partner is supposed to assume you have both majors (and that you have a Plan B in case you don't), then he might be bidding a 3-card spade suit. What do you do here?

If partner's bid promises a four-card major, what does he do with Axx KJx AJx xxxx?

Issues like this needs some discussion. There are some similarities to the plans you have to make for handling 1D (2C) X. But a big difference is that in the latter case, responder's Plan B is often to revert to diamonds, opener's first suit. That's not really an option here--you can't revert to supporting clubs.

-- Adam

[Nick France]

>                        -- Adam- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No argument with you. I'd pass 2S with the hand I have and with a
3334 hand and 4 little clubs as opener I'd bid 2D. Partner will
understand I dont have 5 clubs or I'd probably pass here. So he will
know my 2D is a 3 card suit as if I were 44 in the minors I'd open 1D
and if I had 5 clubs I'd have passed.

Nick France

[OldPalooka]

I would rate this as bad luck. The 2S bid was in good luck. Not all bad bids get punished.

>
>
>
> Board 2:
>
> NS Vul
>
> I held
>
> xxx
> AQx
> 109xxx
> Kx
>
>
> W N E S
>
> - P P 1S
> P P 2D 2H
> 3D - - Dble
>
> Down 1 for a bottom board. Was it reasonable to balance with 2D in the
> pass out position?
>

When I was a young palooka, this would have been a routine 1NT balance, now almost every one plays this balancing bid as a tad stronger. I would probably reopen with 1NT if not vul. 2D is wrong because the shape is bad and the suit is bad and the hand is otherwise marginal.

Double was speculative but a decent speculation. Your partner should not be passing 1NT doubled [I submit that if 3D is natural and forcing that 4D is better than passing], and he should not sit the double holding six tricks on offense and possibly negating your diamond ace on defense.

[Lorne]

"Tom" wrote in message
news:4fa349d0$0$32217$c3e8da3$670b...@news.astraweb.com...

.....................................
I would double 3C, presumably that makes no difference except to my ego!

In practice you got done by their aggressive competitive bidding which is
probably why they keep winning. You are always at risk in a 5CM system if
you open a club and the oppo compete, and in this case if you can make 4H
with a balanced 8 count opposite a weak NT then it was also a bit unlucky.
......................................

......................................
2D is clearcut for me. Your partners raise without 4 trumps was wrong - he
knows you are bidding on his values as well having seen the hand passed out
in 1S and has no reason to believe that 3D will make or that 2H will make.
He should pass and hope your 2D bid has done the damage.
.......................................

...................................
Double is clearcut but partners pass is not. He has huge playing strength
but no defensive tricks and should not assume you have 5 tricks or you will
always lose out to opponents who compete aggresively. You must be able to
double when you think (but are not sure) it is going off and you must be
able to rely on partner making a sensible decision with a hand like this.

He also should have bid over the double - he does not want to play 1N and
risk going off when 9+ tricks are likely to be available in diamonds. I
would have bid 3D immediately (assuming it is weak) and force the oppo to
work out what to do next. But then you do not say what the double shows and
it is difficult to guess looking at the hand!

[vsp...@hotmail.com]

I want to see the entire board. Seems unlikely
that there were 19 tricks. Perhaps you guys
misdefended.

[Tom]

In article <11370928.565.1336487020364.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbcvs3>,
vsp...@hotmail.com says...

>
>
>On Tuesday, May 8, 2012 5:58:53 AM UTC-7, Lorne wrote:
>> "Tom" wrote in message
>> news:4fa349d0$0$32217$c3e8da3$670b...@news.astraweb.com...
>>
>> Duplicate at the senior centre, playing SAYC
>>
>> Against the best pair in the club (I know, it's the senior centre, so
>> bridge is inconsistent, but they truly are awesome)
>>
>> This was the last round and we got three bottom boards. We were having
>> an amazing round and ended up 2nd, missing first by 1/2 %.
>>
>> Each of the main blunders look like they were mine.
>>
>> I appreciate these are pretty elementary bidding decisions. Even so,
>> I'd be grateful for advice about what my thinking should have been in
>> each of these scenarios.
>>

Just wanted to say many thanks for everyone's comments. You've given P and
me a lot to think about and discuss.

Tom

[KWSchneider]

On May 18, 7:22 pm, Tom <toman...@notmye-mailaddress.com> wrote:
> In article <11370928.565.1336487020364.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbcvs3>,
> vspo...@hotmail.com says...

On board one, I suspect that no one else in the room plays 2C as
natural in that auction. This blocks your heart bid and is why you
received the bottom...

Your bidding was fine.

Kurt