opening 1H on 4 cards
David Babcock
spades to open 1S but will open 1H on four, no doubt to avoid the
heart suit getting list of something like 1D:1S:2C. I am curious
whether my understanding is correct, and if it is, what sort of
response structure they use -- still 1NT forcing (I would be surprised
if so)? 1NT non-forcing (if so, do they have rules for what to do
with 5 hearts?); Kaplan-style 1S/1NT switch?
David
David Babcock
Rob Morris
I have no knowledge of these Norwegians, so my apologies if you were
interested in them specifically rather than the 5-card spade approach in
general. I've played this way a fair bit and it's not unknown in the UK
tournament scene (wild guess, 1% of partnerships?)
It is sometimes referred to as 'Flint-Pender' style, I believe, after
the system used in Jeremy Flint and Peter Pender's short and successful
time playing together. They used a forcing notrump.
Now in my experience, it is basically entirely like 5-card majors and
all the continuations are the same. The style I've used was really just
5-card majors, except that we wouldn't open a short minor when 4-4 in
the majors (we'd open a minor when 3=4=3=3). This just felt more 'natural'.
p.s. a swift web search suggests that this 5-card spade style might be
considered standard in Norway:
http://www.biddingquest.com/system/SD_Norway.htm
--
Rob Morris
arr emm four four five (at) cam dot ac dot uk
Henry Lockwood
I've played this style in the past. As I understand it, you should
compare it more to a 4-card major system with an additional
constraint. The only time you'd open a 4-card 1S is if you a 4=3=3=3,
outside your NT range. All other hands have a 4-card suit elsewhere,
which you can open first. With 4-4 majors, you'd typically open 1H as
partner will respond 1S holding 4 of them, so you don't miss any fits.
Similarly, the only time you open a 3-card minor in this sort of
system is when holding 4=3=3=3 outside the NT range, so it's most
usually played with a 4-card diamond opening and a very occasional 3-
card club. 1M-1NT is non-forcing, generally, and a 5-card heart suit
is either part of a balanced hand or has a 4-card suit for the rebid.
If it's a balanced hand and partner responds 1NT, you can either rebid
2H (note that this does NOT promise 6), or pass/raise NT depending on
strength.
HenryL
Will in New Haven
I don't know what the Norwegians do but his distinction used to be
fairly common among Chicago-area players when people were generally
abandoning four-card Major openings. I don't remember the details of
how they played but it seemed that the rest of their system was fairly
normal 5CM methods. It is possible that they didn't open four-card
Heart suits that often. When I first moved into this area (New
England) several of the expert pairs played "tend to open 1H" and
would open 1H instead of a five-card minor. They did not play the
forcing Notrump but their methods, as far as I remember, seemed fairly
standard.
--
Will in New Haven
jonathan23
David,
I've no knowledge of Norway, but I have seen something similar to what
you describe in Barry Crane's "Light Standard" system. Notes for this
or similar systems can can be retrieved from the rgb archives on
Google Groups by searching for "Light Standard" or "Barry Crane" or
from the web. I think Bridgeguys.com has a pdf describing Crane's
system/style that originated from Kerri Sanborn.
In Crane's system a four-card heart suit could be bid only if it was
something like a "biddable" four card major according to Goren (headed
by QT or better IIRC). I don't think the 1NT response was forcing in
this system, but I suppose you can do that if you want as long as your
partner's opening promises a rebid. Perhaps the perceived advantage
is that three-card minor suits are opened less often, for those that
worry about that. This modification to "standard" five-card majors
goes in the opposite direction from Montreal Relay, where you only
open five-baggers in all three upper suits and then load up your 1C
opening with even more hands ("could be as short as one").
I have thought it would be interesting to play a style like this (at
matchpoints, anyway). It's uncomplicated, aggressive, and would
certainly incentivize one to tighten up one's declarer play.
--
- Jon Campbell
Ottawa Canada
Bertel Lund Hansen
I am from Denmark, and in my local club several players open
spades only with 5 cards while 4 is enough for hearts. Many
others play a 5-5-card major system (and some 4-card-systems). I
play the first variant, but only because that is my partner's
system, and after one season I will play with another one (5-5).
The system is quite easy, because it's just the player's normal
system with a constraint like Henry Lockwood explains. I and
partner have agreed to open best minor if no major opening is
available. This way we do not need to alert minor openings.
Nobody in my club plays a 1NT-response as forcing.
--
Bertel, Denmark
http://bridge.lundhansen.dk/
Rob Morris
> I've played this style in the past. As I understand it, you should
> compare it more to a 4-card major system with an additional
> constraint. The only time you'd open a 4-card 1S is if you a 4=3=3=3,
> outside your NT range. All other hands have a 4-card suit elsewhere,
> which you can open first.
Except that '4-card majors, majors first' is a legitimate style, albeit
not the most common one nowadays. Those of us playing 4-card majors,
'up the line' have already moved over quite a long way towards 5-card
majors, this is just one more step.
> Similarly, the only time you open a 3-card minor in this sort of
> system is when holding 4=3=3=3 outside the NT range, so it's most
> usually played with a 4-card diamond opening and a very occasional 3-
> card club. 1M-1NT is non-forcing, generally,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think that all that you're saying here is that you live in a country
where the forcing notrump is comparatively rare.
Choosing whether to play a forcing notrump seems to depend more on how
strong you want your two-over-ones to be and how many meanings you want
to pack into the 1NT bid. I don't think 4-card heart openings influence
it much.
OldPalooka
If you were playing old fashioned 4 card majors Goren style, you would
open 1S on 4 only when you held biddable spades and were 4333 or 4=4
(4=5?) in the majors). Many players (notably Oakie in the US)
independently hit on the idea of opening 1H when 4=4+ and 1C on 4333
to enable 1S to show 5. This style plays fine with a semi-forcing
NT. You tend to avoid a strong preference for hearts with 3 little,
perhaps rebidding 2NT instead of 3H on a balanced 3 card LR.
boris richter
From "Nightmare"
1H - 1S!
------ 1N!
------ 2C!
-------2D!
-------2H!
-------2S!
-------2N!
-------3H!
1S! = 4+S when 3-7 or 12+ hcps, otherwise 0-3 cards in S and 3-12 hcps
1N! = 4+S when 8-11 hcps
2C! = Natural GF
2D! = Natural GF
2H! = 3-4 card heart support, weak raise
2S! = GF with solid spades and heart support or heart limit raise or
balanced GF
2N! = weak two suited hand with minors or heart support, unbalanced
and GF
3H! = Preemptive raise, 4+H support
etc.etc.
BR
stefan f.
One more answer from someone that has no idea of what those
Norwegians are doing.
Here in germany that style is referred as swiss acol, so the
answering structure should be obvious.
ciao stefan
David Babcock
> Choosing whether to play a forcing notrump seems to depend more on how
> strong you want your two-over-ones to be and how many meanings you want
> to pack into the 1NT bid. I don't think 4-card heart openings influence
> it much.
The forcing 1NT came into being many years before 2/1 as an aspect of
both Kaplan-Sheinwold and Roth-Stone (for different reasons in the two
cases). I was curious whether it has since developed any appeal in
conjunction with 4-card majors.
David
henry...@yahoo.com
Back when I experimented with a Precision structure that looked like
this;
1nt = 13-15 hcps
1M = 10-12 bal, 4+ long OR 11-15, 5+ long
I used the idea that 1nt was forcing on a 5-card major opening bid
only.
You get a lot of auctions that go 1M 1nt p, which puts pressure on
both opponents not to pass and wait. Especially in conjunction with
2/1 that is NOT a game force (then, say 1M 2m 2nt=10-12 flat 3m = NF)
that is definitely a swingy style.
Henrysun909
ttw...@att.net
I found that 1NT forcing over a Major (not semi-forcing, though) was
useful in canape style.
henry...@yahoo.com
David,
doesn't that work because the opening 1M is known not to be balanced?
Henrysun909
LowerLine
This is a variant of Acol. With 4-3-3-3 or 4S4m 1m is opened. The rest
is plain Acol. In Acol 1M-1NT is never forcing. 1H-2H can be bid on a
3rcd, occasionally ending in a 4-3 fit. 1H-1NT can be passed with 5332
or 4S5H
Steven
Björn Westling
As I play with 4-card majors, (both hearts and spades), which is not
uncommon in Sweden, I can explain at least my bresponse structure on
1H.
1 S = 4+
1 NT = 6-9
2 C = 10+, could be 3 cards (if 3=3=4=3)
2 D = 10+, 5+
2 H = 6-9
2 S = (depends on your agreements)
2 N = GF, 4+ hearts (similar to Jacoby 2 NT, I believe)
3 X = splinter
But many players use 2-over-1 as GF.
Frances
As you have seen from all the responses there are lots of different
ways to play a "4-card heart suit opening". The style you refer to is
basically a 5-card major method, but you open 1H with 4-4 in the
majors (sometimes, you also open 1H with a 3=4=3=3 distribution).
You can arrive at this from two different directions:
1. From a 5-card major, forcing NT base where you just slightly change
the requirements for a 1H opening
2. From an Acol-style approach where you have chosen to open the lower
of 2 four-card suits, and just extend that to opening 1m on a 4=3=3=3
or 3=4=3=3 shape.
Obviously depending how you get there, your responses be completely
different as they come from very different bidding philosophies