your partner opens 2D (multi)

[jfn]

Your partner opens 2D (multi: 6-9HCP 6 H or 6 S ; if strong, balanced 22-23HCP or 6 C or D 19-21HCP) in first seat.

MP, NV, intermediate opponents within elaborated system against 2D multi

What is your call ? after :

1) 2D pass ?
holding : R D 10 9 7 6 4/void/D 9/A R 10 6

2) 2D 2S ?
holding 9 7/A R 9 8 6 4/A V 4/8 5

Thank you for your opinion.

JFN

[Co Wiersma]

Op 8-5-2013 15:49, jfn schreef:

I think you will have to redo this in English
R = roi? that be K for king
Q for Queen
J for jack

And yes I made this mistake several times by copy-paste from Dutch

Co Wiersma

[jfn]

Sorry for my frenglish, and thank to Co Wiersma for signaling the mistake
I rewrite :

Your partner opens 2D (multi: 6-9HCP 6 H or 6 S ; if strong, balanced 22-23HCP or 6 C or D 19-21HCP) in first seat.
MP, NV, intermediate opponents within elaborated system against 2D multi

What is your call ? after :

1) 2D pass ?

holding :K Q 10 9 7 6 4/void/Q 9/A K 10 6

2) 2D 2S ?

holding 9 7/A K 9 8 6 4/A J 4/8 5

[Will in New Haven]

On May 8, 9:49 am, jfn <jean-francois.noi...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Your partner opens 2D (multi: 6-9HCP 6 H or 6 S ; if strong, balanced 22-23HCP or 6 C or D 19-21HCP) in first seat.
>
> MP, NV, intermediate opponents within elaborated system against 2D multi
>
> What is your call ? after :
>
> 1) 2D pass ?
> holding : R D 10 9 7 6 4/void/D 9/A R 10 6

Is that KQT976 void Q9 AKT6?

If that is correct, I bid 2H because if partner has a Weak Two in
Hearts that is as far as I am willing to go at this time. If partner
bids 2S, which will surprise me, I will bid four. If partner shows one
of the strong hands I will do whatever the system calls for.

If someone doubles 2H, partner having passed it, I will bid 2S.
Partner should be able to figure this out.

>
> 2) 2D 2S ?
> holding 9 7/A R 9 8 6 4/A V 4/8 5

OK, this is 97 AK9864 AJ4 85?

If partner has the Weak Two in Hearts, the most likely holding, I want
to bid 5H but this will cross partner up if he has one of the strong
options. If partner has a Weak Two in Spades, I don't know what is
right.

I will now give up the Multi.

--
Will in New Haven

[vsp...@hotmail.com]

I never play multi. Thought the
bid was 2S with that hand.

[Co Wiersma]

Op 8-5-2013 16:40, Will in New Haven schreef:

One option is to double in such situation, showing cards and shortness
in Spades.
Problem is then of cause that next time the majors are switched and you
would very much like to double for penalty.
Indeed the multi is a complicated convention.

Co Wiersma

[Will in New Haven]

On the first hand, a 2S bid will get partner to bid 3H if that is his
suit. That is because, with a hand like xx KQxx AJ AQxxx you don't
dare bid 2H because you decide you belong in four opposite a Weak Two
in Hearts, so you bid 2S because that is as far as you want to go in
Spades. I don't know if everyone who plays the Multi plays this way
but it is what I was told and it makes sense.

Of course, the strong options make the whole thing more difficult.

[Will in New Haven]

Well, we have cards and shortness in Spades but we also have massive
Heart support. Still, the double is a reasonable call as partner can
leave it in with one of the strong options or with the Weak Two in

Spades.

> Problem is then of cause that next time the majors are switched and you
> would very much like to double for penalty.
> Indeed the multi is a complicated convention.

Also, he said that the opponents had "an elaborate system versus the
Multi." However, he didn't say that the 2S bid wasn't natural, so I
would assume that it is. In the defence I learned, it would be "a
takout double of 2H" and would show SOME Spades but not necessarily
five or even four.

[france...@googlemail.com]

On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 2:49:20 PM UTC+1, jfn wrote:
> Your partner opens 2D (multi: 6-9HCP 6 H or 6 S ; if strong, balanced 22-23HCP or 6 C or D 19-21HCP) in first seat. MP, NV, intermediate opponents within elaborated system against 2D multi What is your call ? after :

1) 2D pass ? holding :
R D 10 9 7 6 4/void/D 9/A R 10 6

If I play the multi, I've agreed how to show this hand, either as a game force with spades or as a sign=off in 3S (most people can't sign off in 2S). I don't know how your methods cope with this. I would bid 2S (pass or correct) then 3S, which asks to play there, because my multi is quite light.

2) 2D 2S ? holding 9 7/A R 9 8 6 4/A V 4/8 5 Thank you for your opinion. JFN

Double. Asking partner to pass with spades or bid with anything else. If you play double as penalties, then you have to guess.

[Co Wiersma]

Op 8-5-2013 17:16, Will in New Haven schreef:

> On the first hand, a 2S bid will get partner to bid 3H if that is his
> suit. That is because, with a hand like xx KQxx AJ AQxxx you don't
> dare bid 2H because you decide you belong in four opposite a Weak Two
> in Hearts, so you bid 2S because that is as far as you want to go in
> Spades. I don't know if everyone who plays the Multi plays this way
> but it is what I was told and it makes sense.
>
> Of course, the strong options make the whole thing more difficult.

Some people refuse to play this 2S bid as they see it as a invite for
opponents to bid spades

For the strong hands this makes no difference at all,
2D-2S; 2NT is the strong NT
2D-2S; 3C is the strong club ect

There is a other reason that the strong hands are a problem
that is that sometimes you want to bid 3H or 4H after partners multi
like with a hand

Axxx
Axxx
xxxx
x

4H or 4S seems a good sac against opponents 5C game
and might even make on a good day
But bidding 4H is not so nice if partner has a strong hand
as it prevents you to make any good investigation and it prevents you
from reaching 3NT if that is how high you want to go

Co Wiersma

[Co Wiersma]

Op 8-5-2013 17:20, Will in New Haven schreef:

> Also, he said that the opponents had "an elaborate system versus the
> Multi." However, he didn't say that the 2S bid wasn't natural, so I
> would assume that it is. In the defence I learned, it would be "a
> takout double of 2H" and would show SOME Spades but not necessarily
> five or even four.

That be one of many defences
(and I think its not used much anymore)

Co Wiersma

[Adam Beneschan]

On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 7:40:15 AM UTC-7, Will in New Haven wrote:

> On May 8, 9:49 am, jfn <jean-francois.noi...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
> > Your partner opens 2D (multi: 6-9HCP 6 H or 6 S ; if strong, balanced 22-23HCP or 6 C or D 19-21HCP) in first seat.
>
> > MP, NV, intermediate opponents within elaborated system against 2D multi
>
> > What is your call ? after :

>
> > 1) 2D pass ?
>
> > holding : R D 10 9 7 6 4/void/D 9/A R 10 6
>
>
> Is that KQT976 void Q9 AKT6?

No, it's KQT9764 void Q9 AKT6, i.e. seven spades. Don't know if that makes a difference to you, but it certainly makes me think 4S is a live possibility even opposite a weak two in hearts. Using common American methods, I think that opposite a 2H opener I'd bid 2NT, Ogust, and probably game in spades unless partner shows a weak hand with or without a good suit. (And even then I might chance it.)

-- Adam

[Michael Angelo Ravera]

Looks like a fairly normal 2H response on the first one. I might venture a 3H paradox bid at favorable vulnerability. However, my most frequent Multi partner sometimes sneaks in a 2D opener with 5H(332) at favorable vulnerability, so I might just bid 2H.

I think that I would probably throw in a 2NT on the second hand. "Balanced and willing to play 3H or higher opposite one of the weak possibilities."

[Steve Willner]

On 2013-05-08 10:34 AM, jfn wrote:
> Your partner opens 2D (multi: 6-9HCP 6 H or 6 S ; if strong, balanced 22-23HCP or 6 C or D 19-21HCP) in first seat.
> MP, NV, intermediate opponents within elaborated system against 2D multi

It would help to know what strong options are included in the multi and
just how weak the weak twos can be. You should also be aware that few US
players have played the multi at all, and even most who have don't have
much experience with it, so take our answers with appropriate skepticism.

> 1) 2D pass ?
> holding :K Q 10 9 7 6 4/void/Q 9/A K 10 6

My answer is similar to Frances' except that if the weak twos are what
I'd regard as mid-range, I'd regard this hand as worth an invitation in
spades rather than a signoff. When I've played multi (a weak-only
version sometimes known as "Wagner"), I've shown that type by bidding 2S
then 3S on the next round. I definitely don't want to force to game on
this hand, but 2H doesn't look like any bargain.

If your weak twos can be very weak, you could consider bidding 2H,
hoping that down in 50's is a good score or that LHO rescues you.
Neither looks like a good bet to me, so I'd still take the spade route,
even if it's an overbid.

> 2) 2D 2S ?
> holding 9 7/A K 9 8 6 4/A J 4/8 5

It would help a lot to know what 2S shows. Assuming it's natural,
takeout double is possible, but I'm worried that (after partner passes,
holding a weak two in spades) opponents will find a better contract in a
minor. I think I'd pass, risking a silly result if partner has a weak
two in hearts. (I'm assuming partner won't pass with one of the strong
options.) Even if partner has hearts, opponents might be cold for 4S or
even 6S, so 2S with overtricks doesn't have to be a disaster. However,
you should take Frances' answer (takeout double) a lot more seriously
than mine.

--
Help keep our newsgroup healthy; please don't feed the trolls.
Steve Willner Phone 617-495-7123 swil...@nhcc.net
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA

[Co Wiersma]

Op 9-5-2013 4:04, Steve Willner schreef:

>
> My answer is similar to Frances' except that if the weak twos are what
> I'd regard as mid-range, I'd regard this hand as worth an invitation in
> spades rather than a signoff. When I've played multi (a weak-only
> version sometimes known as "Wagner"), I've shown that type by bidding 2S
> then 3S on the next round. I definitely don't want to force to game on
> this hand, but 2H doesn't look like any bargain.

So 2S in your system does NOT invite partner to bid 4H with an upper
range weak two in hearts?

[france...@googlemail.com]

- So 2S in your system does NOT invite partner to bid 4H with an upper range weak two in hearts?

2S for me suggests I _might_ have game interest opposite hearts.
How partner shows a max weak two in hearts is up to you, and depends on the strong options - in our multi we bid 3C to show a max weak 2H bid because we don't have a strong club hand as an option.

If you usually play that partner can jump to 4H, an laternative is to raise 2S to 3S to show a max heart hand, assuming you are using 2NT/3C/3D to show the strong options. You can pass this (or bid 4S) with lots of spades.

[france...@googlemail.com]

> 2) 2D 2S ? > holding 9 7/A K 9 8 6 4/A J 4/8 5 It would help a lot to know what 2S shows. Assuming it's natural, takeout double is possible, but I'm worried that (after partner passes, holding a weak two in spades) opponents will find a better contract in a minor. I think I'd pass, risking a silly result if partner has a weak two in hearts. (I'm assuming partner won't pass with one of the strong options.) Even if partner has hearts, opponents might be cold for 4S or even 6S, so 2S with overtricks doesn't have to be a disaster.

I agree doubling is a risk, idally you'd like to have more defence against the minors. Passing might also work if you trust your opponents: if LHO raises spades, you can always view to bid 5H. (One the largest penalties I've seen was after the auction 2D 2H P 4H P P 4S dbl when the multier had hearts all along...)

Vulnerability and form of scoring are relevant. If partner opens weak twos on hands other people don't, you don't want to take, say, 100 from 2S undoubled at matchpoints if you were making 3H.

[Co Wiersma]

Op 9-5-2013 13:24, france...@googlemail.com schreef:

> I agree doubling is a risk, idally you'd like to have more defence against the minors. Passing might also work if you trust your opponents: if LHO raises spades, you can always view to bid 5H. (One the largest penalties I've seen was after the auction 2D 2H P 4H P P 4S dbl when the multier had hearts all along...)

I had one of those even this year
2D P 2H 3H
P 4H 4S
and that was doubled by one of them and I only made 3 tricks...

Co Wiersma

[Lorne]

Not sure about the first. Probably 2H expecting to play there, but
removing to 2S or 3S if the oppo give me the chance. Could try 2S then
3S if my agreement was that partner does not jump with a max weak 2 in
hearts but I think most would jump without that discussion.

Double with the second. That should ask partner to pass with spades and
make the normal response that you play to 2N if he has anything else.

[Steve Willner]

On 2013-05-09 3:09 AM, Co Wiersma wrote:
> So 2S in your system does NOT invite partner to bid 4H with an upper
> range weak two in hearts?

Certainly not! I could bid 2S with a zero-count and 2-3 in the majors.
I don't see the merit of bidding 2H with that; it just gives the
opponents one more round of bidding when partner has his usual weak two
in spades, and it gives them an extra level if partner does happen to
have hearts. (2D-P-2S-something-3H instead of 2D-P-2H-something-P.)

Over my 2S, partner can show a max with hearts by bidding any of 2NT,
3C, or 3D (the advantage of having no strong option), and I can go on if
I have an invitational hand. Frances appears to need 2NT and 3D for
strong options, but she still has 3C to show the max with hearts. No
need to allow the jump to 4H unless all three intermediate bids are
needed for strong options.

[Steve Willner]

On 2013-05-09 7:24 AM, france...@googlemail.com wrote:
[holding 97 AK9864 AJ4 85]
> I agree doubling is a risk, ideally you'd like to have more defence
> against the minors.

I do very much appreciate Frances' experienced advice. Presumably the
argument for double is that opponents may not have a good 3m contract
and may not find it if they do.

> Vulnerability and form of scoring are relevant. If partner opens weak
> twos on hands other people don't, you don't want to take, say, 100
> from 2S undoubled at matchpoints if you were making 3H.

I admit the point of this escaped me on the first two readings. I
_think_ Frances is saying that partner could have a good weak two with
spades, but 2S by opponents gets only +100 for us against the 140 we
could have made playing in our possible 6-2 or 6-3 heart fit. I don't
have enough experience (my partners would say "enough skill") to assess
that. How likely is it that we'll reach the heart fit if I do choose to
double? Or that opponents rest in 2Sx, which will be even better for
us? I can see 2D-2S-x-P-P-3m-P-P, and now is partner really going to
bid 3H when it's right?

[Hank Youngerman]

On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 10:49:20 AM UTC-3, jfn wrote:
> Your partner opens 2D (multi: 6-9HCP 6 H or 6 S ; if strong, balanced 22-23HCP or 6 C or D 19-21HCP) in first seat.
>
>
>
> MP, NV, intermediate opponents within elaborated system against 2D multi
>
>
>
> What is your call ? after :
>
>

On the first hand, no bid other than 2H occurs to me.

>
> 1) 2D pass ?
>
> holding : R D 10 9 7 6 4/void/D 9/A R 10 6
>
>
>
> 2) 2D 2S ?
>
> holding 9 7/A R 9 8 6 4/A V 4/8 5
>
>
>
> Thank you for your opinion.
>
>
>
> JFN

On the first hand, no call other than 2H occurs to me. In my partnerships, 4S would be natural but 2S and 3S would be pass-or-correct. I certainly do not want to make a tactical pass of 2D and play it there. If I get a second chance to bid, I will bid 2S. This has to be a natural runout. My hand is not good enough to make a game-try 2N.

On the second hand, I have long had the agreement that over 2D - 2M/3M, double is pass-or-correct, so I would double 2S. Partner very likely has the weak 2 in spades. I expect the opponents to land in a minor, but maybe not. If partner happens to have the weak 2 in hearts, he will correct and we'll bid a lot of hearts.

[Co Wiersma]

Op 10-5-2013 2:56, Steve Willner schreef:

> I admit the point of this escaped me on the first two readings. I
> _think_ Frances is saying that partner could have a good weak two with
> spades, but 2S by opponents gets only +100 for us against the 140 we
> could have made playing in our possible 6-2 or 6-3 heart fit. I don't
> have enough experience (my partners would say "enough skill") to assess
> that. How likely is it that we'll reach the heart fit if I do choose to
> double? Or that opponents rest in 2Sx, which will be even better for
> us? I can see 2D-2S-x-P-P-3m-P-P, and now is partner really going to
> bid 3H when it's right?
>

If partner has a 6card spades behind the spadebidder, maybe its better
to let opponents play anyway
I sure hope partner is not going to bid hearts. If we must play hearts,
then I have to bid it

Co Wiersma

[Steve Willner]

On 2013-05-10 10:24 AM, Hank Youngerman wrote:
> In my partnerships, 4S would be natural but 2S and 3S would be pass-or-correct.

What is 2S followed by 3S over the expected 3H bid by opener?

[bhmwe...@gmail.com]

Den onsdagen den 8:e maj 2013 kl. 15:49:20 UTC+2 skrev jfn:
> Your partner opens 2D (multi: 6-9HCP 6 H or 6 S ; if strong, balanced 22-23HCP or 6 C or D 19-21HCP) in first seat.
>
>
>
> MP, NV, intermediate opponents within elaborated system against 2D multi
>
>
>
> What is your call ? after :
>
>
>
> 1) 2D pass ?
>
> holding : R D 10 9 7 6 4/void/D 9/A R 10 6

2H as I want to play 2H against hearts, and if partner has spades and bid 2S I want to play 4S.
Of course, if partner decides to be sneaky and pass with spades in order to psyche he will have to stand his ground The way I play 2S from me shows that you want to play 2S agaisnt spads, but you invite to game in hearts.

>
>
>
> 2) 2D 2S ?
>
> holding 9 7/A R 9 8 6 4/A V 4/8 5

Double.
This is a take-out double, showing that partner should bid his suit (or rather Pass with spades) - granted, this is the agreement I have with the partner with which I play multi, but I think it's quite common practice that double is a take-out.

OK; so what do you do if opponents bid 2H instead of 2S with this hand?
Well, you have to pass. Partner might decide to re-open with a double, in case you hade hearts and was forced to pass.

[lowerline]

Op woensdag 8 mei 2013 15:49:20 UTC+2 schreef jfn het volgende:

Both depend on your agreements...

I play 4C as asking for a tranfer in partners suit and 4D as asking for his suit. Then an immediate 4H or 4S is to play with your own suit. So 4S to play is what I would do with the first hand.

I play negative doubles after a 2M overcall. So I double with the second hand. Partner passes with spades and bids again with hearts. If LHO raises to 4S I will bid 5H but will let them have it in 5S.

Regards,
Steven