(In)Sanity Checks ...
john
MP, Sitting N, playing SEF (French SAYC) with a pickup partner (who
appeared over the course of the evening to be fairly competent).
Deal 1. 1st Board of the night, EW Vul
You hold
864
-
AK105
AK10963
Auction proceeds:
1C (P) 1H (P)
2D (P) 2N (P)
3C (P) 3H (P)
3N AP
Questions:
1) Do you agree with the 2D bid?
2) Having (arguably) overbid your hand with 2D, do you pass 2N?
Deal 2. Mid Session board, generally holding our own without doing
spectacularly well
All Vul.
You deal and pick up
96
10
A10764
AK1082
Auction proceeds:
1D (1H) 3S (P)
4S (P) 4N (P) - 4N is RKCB
5H (P) 5S AP
1) Do you agree with the 4S bid, or would 4H be better (or even 4N)?
Partner had
AKQJ1084
54
KQ
Q4
6S was cold, but partner was worried about his 2 small hearts ...
Many Thanks
John
Dave Flower
> Two auctions from last night I would welcome some feedback on ...
>
> MP, Sitting N, playing SEF (French SAYC) with a pickup partner (who
> appeared over the course of the evening to be fairly competent).
>
> Deal 1. 1st Board of the night, EW Vul
>
> You hold
> 864
> -
> AK105
> AK10963
>
> Auction proceeds:
>
> 1C (P) 1H (P)
> 2D (P) 2N (P)
> 3C (P) 3H (P)
> 3N AP
>
> Questions:
> 1) Do you agree with the 2D bid?
No, the hand is looking a misfit - if partner can't bid over 2C, you
are probably high enough
> 2) Having (arguably) overbid your hand with 2D, do you pass 2N?
>
No. You need tricks, not points, for no-trump - and you have them. Bid
3NT, if partner has any signioficant club support, it will probably
make.
> Deal 2. Mid Session board, generally holding our own without doing
> spectacularly well
>
> All Vul.
> You deal and pick up
>
> 96
> 10
> A10764
> AK1082
>
> Auction proceeds:
>
> 1D (1H) 3S (P)
> 4S (P) 4N (P) - 4N is RKCB
> 5H (P) 5S AP
>
> 1) Do you agree with the 4S bid, or would 4H be better (or even 4N)?
I think that 4S is quite enough.
>
> Partner had
>
> AKQJ1084
> 54
> KQ
> Q4
I thought that you said partner was 'fairly competant'. 3S surely
showed a much weaker hand, but was a far better bid than 4NT. Finally,
partner does not seem to have considered the possibility that you
might hold HKx, in which case 4NT makes it impossible to reach the
only making slam - 6NT by you.
>
> 6S was cold, but partner was worried about his 2 small hearts ...
>
> Many Thanks
>
> John
Dave Flower
henry...@yahoo.com
MP, Sitting N, playing SEF (French SAYC) with a pickup partner (who
appeared over the course of the evening to be fairly competent).
Deal 1. 1st Board of the night, EW Vul
You hold
864
-
AK105
AK10963
Auction proceeds:
1C (P) 1H (P)
2D (P) 2N (P)
3C (P) 3H (P)
3N AP
Questions:
1) Do you agree with the 2D bid?
2) Having (arguably) overbid your hand with 2D, do you pass 2N?
HS: Yes. 4 quick tricks, two powerful suits, 4=6 shape all outweigh
the heart void, in my opinion. Especially if opener can rebid a NF
3C, then I have no problem with a reverse. After all, as little as
Axxx
Kxxx
xx
xxx
gives you play for game
I assume from question 2 that 2nt is natural and not an artificial
bid. In the US, a reverse promises a rebid, but even if it didn't, I
would rebid 3c under the assumption that it is passable. After all,
give partner a misfitting minimum like
Kxxx
Axxxx
xxx
x
and I'd rather play in 3c than 2nt.
Deal 2. Mid Session board, generally holding our own without doing
spectacularly well
All Vul.
You deal and pick up
96
10
A10764
AK1082
Auction proceeds:
1D (1H) 3S (P)
4S (P) 4N (P) - 4N is RKCB
5H (P) 5S AP
1) Do you agree with the 4S bid, or would 4H be better (or even 4N)?
HS: It is difficult to answer this question without knowing what 3S
is. Based on partner's hand,
AKQJ1084
54
KQ
Q4
he meant it as a strong jump shift, which would not be standard. If
it is a strong jump shift, and if 4h does not promise any extra values
and is only a courtesy qbid on the way to game, then that is the best
option. But in a pickup partnership, that is likely to be
misunderstood as promising extra values. So the raise to 4s is
reasonable.
Responder should not bid 4nt precisely because of his dilemma -
knowing how many aces you have does not give him the information he
needs. He should, instead, qbid 5d to show diamond control and slam
interest. Now opener can show heart control, implying that he has
club control as well, and now responder can bid slam (or explore for a
grand slam which should not be reached since opener will deny 1st
round heart control).
Henrysun909
Co Wiersma
"john" <john.so...@googlemail.com> schreef in bericht
news:43be4da0-35c6-49f8...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> Two auctions from last night I would welcome some feedback on ...
>
> MP, Sitting N, playing SEF (French SAYC) with a pickup partner (who
> appeared over the course of the evening to be fairly competent).
>
> Deal 1. 1st Board of the night, EW Vul
>
> You hold
> 864
> -
> AK105
> AK10963
>
> Auction proceeds:
>
> 1C (P) 1H (P)
> 2D (P) 2N (P)
> 3C (P) 3H (P)
> 3N AP
>
> Questions:
> 1) Do you agree with the 2D bid?
> 2) Having (arguably) overbid your hand with 2D, do you pass 2N?
>
1 : I would have bid 2C because the void in partners suit make me cautious
2 : this is a tough one
I think that if partner have some support in clubs , then 2NT is fine and
even 3NT should make a chance
But if partner have little support for clubs , then 2NT does not have a
chance
So I do agree with your 3C bid
>
> Deal 2. Mid Session board, generally holding our own without doing
> spectacularly well
>
> All Vul.
> You deal and pick up
>
> 96
> 10
> A10764
> AK1082
>
> Auction proceeds:
>
> 1D (1H) 3S (P)
> 4S (P) 4N (P) - 4N is RKCB
> 5H (P) 5S AP
>
> 1) Do you agree with the 4S bid, or would 4H be better (or even 4N)?
>
> Partner had
>
> AKQJ1084
> 54
> KQ
> Q4
>
> 6S was cold, but partner was worried about his 2 small hearts ...
>
> Many Thanks
>
> John
I do only know two different meanings for such a 3S bid
one is a weak hand with many spades
the other is splinter ( never happens though in this situation)
3S with this meaning seams a space consuming bid
would 4C or 4D from you be a advanced cue ?
if no , then I think that the 3S bid consumes to much space
I also disagree with partners 4NT bid
honestly , Blackwood is by far the most misused convention
If you don't know what to do with partners answer , then you should not
even consider Blackwood
Co Wiersma
Eric Leong
>
> MP, Sitting N, playing SEF (French SAYC) with a pickup partner (who
> appeared over the course of the evening to be fairly competent).
>
> Deal 1. 1st Board of the night, EW Vul
>
> You hold
> 864
> -
> AK105
> AK10963
>
> Auction proceeds:
>
> 1C (P) 1H (P)
> 2D (P) 2N (P)
> 3C (P) 3H (P)
> 3N AP
>
> Questions:
> 1) Do you agree with the 2D bid?
Yes.
> 2) Having (arguably) overbid your hand with 2D, do you pass 2N?
No. 2NT is forcing but partner can pass 3C.
>
> Deal 2. Mid Session board, generally holding our own without doing
> spectacularly well
>
> All Vul.
> You deal and pick up
>
> 96
> 10
> A10764
> AK1082
>
> Auction proceeds:
>
> 1D (1H) 3S (P)
> 4S (P) 4N (P) - 4N is RKCB
> 5H (P) 5S AP
>
> 1) Do you agree with the 4S bid, or would 4H be better (or even 4N)?
3S is not forcing. So why is opener looking for a slam?
>
> Partner had
>
> AKQJ1084
> 54
> KQ
> Q4
>
> 6S was cold, but partner was worried about his 2 small hearts ...
If partner is going to make a slam move over 4S he should bid 5S
asking partner to bid on with a second round control in hearts. If
partner has two losing hearts, he should have D A and the C AK to make
up an opening bid so 5S should be safe. If partner has a stiff heart
he can bid 6S. If partner has the heart king such as H Kx he can bid
5NT. If partner has first round control in hearts, he would cue bid
his cheapest ace. So if partner bids 6C, you can bid 6D and partner
may very well be able to bid a grand.
Eric Leong
>
> Many Thanks
>
> John
Derek Broughton
> Two auctions from last night I would welcome some feedback on ...
>
> MP, Sitting N, playing SEF (French SAYC) with a pickup partner (who
> appeared over the course of the evening to be fairly competent).
>
> Deal 1. 1st Board of the night, EW Vul
>
> You hold
> 864
> -
> AK105
> AK10963
>
> Auction proceeds:
>
> 1C (P) 1H (P)
> 2D (P) 2N (P)
> 3C (P) 3H (P)
> 3N AP
>
> Questions:
> 1) Do you agree with the 2D bid?
Completely.
> 2) Having (arguably) overbid your hand with 2D, do you pass 2N?
No.
> Deal 2. Mid Session board, generally holding our own without doing
> spectacularly well
>
> All Vul.
> You deal and pick up
>
> 96
> 10
> A10764
> AK1082
>
> Auction proceeds:
>
> 1D (1H) 3S (P)
> 4S (P) 4N (P) - 4N is RKCB
> 5H (P) 5S AP
>
> 1) Do you agree with the 4S bid, or would 4H be better (or even 4N)?
Don't know SEF - but that would have been a Weak Jump shift in standard
american, so I'm not sure how strong to expect it. If partner had exactly
what you expect, I think 4S is right. 4H isn't bad. 4N is suggesting you
have more than you do.
>
> Partner had
>
> AKQJ1084
> 54
> KQ
> Q4
>
> 6S was cold, but partner was worried about his 2 small hearts ...
--
derek
patri...@gmail.com
I don't know if weak jump shifts in competition are part of Standard
American, but surely the weak jump shift after 1D-(1H)- would have
been 2S, not 3S. I don't know what 3S is in Standard American.
ted
> Two auctions from last night I would welcome some feedback on ...
>
> MP, Sitting N, playing SEF (French SAYC) with a pickup partner (who
> appeared over the course of the evening to be fairly competent).
>
> Deal 1. 1st Board of the night, EW Vul
>
> You hold
> 864
> -
> AK105
> AK10963
>
> Auction proceeds:
>
> 1C (P) 1H (P)
> 2D (P) 2N (P)
> 3C (P) 3H (P)
> 3N AP
>
> Questions:
> 1) Do you agree with the 2D bid?
No you are about a K understrength and you are in a misfit auction so
I would rebid 2C. Over 1S I would be more inclined to agree as it is
unclear that we only have a 7 card S fit.
> 2) Having (arguably) overbid your hand with 2D, do you pass 2N?
You are screwed the only question is how high do you want to go and do
you expect partner to really pass a 3C call at this point?
>
> Deal 2. Mid Session board, generally holding our own without doing
> spectacularly well
>
> All Vul.
> You deal and pick up
>
> 96
> 10
> A10764
> AK1082
>
> Auction proceeds:
>
> 1D (1H) 3S (P)
> 4S (P) 4N (P) - 4N is RKCB
> 5H (P) 5S AP
>
> 1) Do you agree with the 4S bid, or would 4H be better (or even 4N)?
Assuming SEF uses PJS in competition (like SAYC) it is a clear overbid
IMO and you should pass
>
> Partner had
>
> AKQJ1084
> 54
> KQ
> Q4
>
> 6S was cold, but partner was worried about his 2 small hearts ...
I guess 1S being 100% forcing was not forcing enough for your
partner. ;-)
>
> Many Thanks
>
> John
Raija D
"john" <john.so...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:43be4da0-35c6-49f8...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> Two auctions from last night I would welcome some feedback on ...
>
> MP, Sitting N, playing SEF (French SAYC) with a pickup partner (who
> appeared over the course of the evening to be fairly competent).
>
> Deal 1. 1st Board of the night, EW Vul
>
> You hold
> 864
> -
> AK105
> AK10963
>
> Auction proceeds:
>
> 1C (P) 1H (P)
> 2D (P) 2N (P)
> 3C (P) 3H (P)
> 3N AP
>
> Questions:
> 1) Do you agree with the 2D bid?
> 2) Having (arguably) overbid your hand with 2D, do you pass 2N?
>
>
> Deal 2. Mid Session board, generally holding our own without doing
> spectacularly well
>
> All Vul.
> You deal and pick up
>
> 96
> 10
> A10764
> AK1082
>
> Auction proceeds:
>
> 1D (1H) 3S (P)
> 4S (P) 4N (P) - 4N is RKCB
> 5H (P) 5S AP
>
> 1) Do you agree with the 4S bid, or would 4H be better (or even 4N)?
I have never seen 3S in this auction played as strong. Apparently 2S would
have been non-forcing in SEF?
>
> Partner had
>
> AKQJ1084
> 54
> KQ
> Q4
>
> 6S was cold, but partner was worried about his 2 small hearts ...
***Using RKCB when the RKCB'er does not know what to do with the answer is
what some might call "RKCB abuse".
Raija D
"Raija D" <must...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:VCeNm.20879$gi1....@newsfe19.iad...
******I meant _ 1S_.
Derek Broughton
>>
>> > 1D (1H) 3S (P)
>> > 4S (P) 4N (P) - 4N is RKCB
>> > 5H (P) 5S AP
>>
>> > 1) Do you agree with the 4S bid, or would 4H be better (or even 4N)?
>>
>> Don't know SEF - but that would have been a Weak Jump shift in standard
>> american, so I'm not sure how strong to expect it. If partner had
>> exactly
>> what you expect, I think 4S is right. 4H isn't bad. 4N is suggesting you
>> have more than you do.
>
> I don't know if weak jump shifts in competition are part of Standard
> American,
definitely _in competition_. Without competition, there isn't much of a
standard.
> but surely the weak jump shift after 1D-(1H)- would have
> been 2S, not 3S. I don't know what 3S is in Standard American.
Oops. I'm getting as good as Bob at misreading an auction... Nevertheless,
the rest of my post is unchanged.
--
derek
judyorcarl
wrote:
I don't know about SEF, but as SAYC is written (I just checked),
jumpshifts are strong, and bids have the unchanged meaning in
competition.
Carl
judyorcarl
Not enough stress has been placed on the rule. Blackwood then signoff
is a definite absolute statement that the opponents hold 2 "aces."
Carl
judyorcarl
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not a weak jumpshift in SAYC.
Carl
judyorcarl
>
> - Show quoted text -
Oops, I didn't notice the double jump. Probably the bidder didn't
notice either.
Carl
Alan Malloy
Bet you a dollar? In the past when I've see this double-jump, responder
has usually held a "really really strong jump-shift, honestly, I didn't
think a jump-shift was strong enough".
--
Cheers,
Alan (San Jose, California, USA)
Raija D
"judyorcarl" <judyo...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:d41e06d6-c71b-44ae...@p33g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
Carl
==================
1S would be forcing, no jump. 2S would be single jumpshift, and under your
rules (I believe you about sayc) is strong. But a double jumpshift to 3S?
Raija
dak...@aol.com
-
AK105
AK10963
Auction proceeds:
1C (P) 1H (P)
2D (P) 2N (P)
3C (P) 3H (P)
3N AP
Questions:
1) Do you agree with the 2D bid?
2) Having (arguably) overbid your hand with 2D, do you pass 2N?
Deal 2.
96
10
A10764
AK1082
Auction proceeds:
1D (1H) 3S (P)
4S (P) 4N (P) - 4N is RKCB
5H (P) 5S AP
1) Do you agree with the 4S bid, or would 4H be better (or
even 4N)?
Yes expect to add H-ruff +AK +A +long C/D.
AKQJ1084
54
KQ
Q4
If partner asks with RKCB, I'm going 6S. He cannot expect much more.
Derek Broughton
> Not a weak jumpshift in SAYC.
Well, no, as we've already discussed - but SAYC is _not_ "standard
american".
--
derek
judyorcarl
Do you have any evidence that WJS is "standard american"?
If so, where is the definitive description of what a WJS is and isn't?
Carl
Derek Broughton
> On Nov 19, 9:57 pm, Derek Broughton <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>> judyorcarl wrote:
>> > Not a weak jumpshift in SAYC.
>>
>> Well, no, as we've already discussed - but SAYC is _not_ "standard
>> american".
>
> Do you have any evidence that WJS is "standard american"?
It's what is taught in ACBL's classes, and it is not alertable. Good enough
for me.
--
derek
judyorcarl
Look at the convention card. WJS not in competition is in red.
Carl
judyorcarl
Also, the alert chart says " natural, non-forcing jump shift after a
pass by RHO (no competition)" requires an alert.
Carl
Derek Broughton
> On Nov 20, 8:25 am, Derek Broughton <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>> judyorcarl wrote:
>> > On Nov 19, 9:57 pm, Derek Broughton <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>> >> judyorcarl wrote:
>> >> > Not a weak jumpshift in SAYC.
>>
>> >> Well, no, as we've already discussed - but SAYC is _not_ "standard
>> >> american".
>>
>> > Do you have any evidence that WJS is "standard american"?
>>
>> It's what is taught in ACBL's classes, and it is not alertable. Good
>> enough for me.
>
> Also, the alert chart says " natural, non-forcing jump shift after a
> pass by RHO (no competition)" requires an alert.
Absolutely - see my other response.
--
derek
Derek Broughton
> On Nov 20, 8:25 am, Derek Broughton <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>> judyorcarl wrote:
>> > On Nov 19, 9:57 pm, Derek Broughton <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>> >> judyorcarl wrote:
>> >> > Not a weak jumpshift in SAYC.
>>
>> >> Well, no, as we've already discussed - but SAYC is _not_ "standard
>> >> american".
>>
>> > Do you have any evidence that WJS is "standard american"?
>>
>> It's what is taught in ACBL's classes, and it is not alertable. Good
>> enough for me.
>
> Look at the convention card. WJS not in competition is in red.
Look at the auction:
> 1D (1H) 3S (P)
- this is competitive. "WJS not in competition" is in red because it's
different from a WJS _in_ competition. Which is somewhat moot, as we've all
agreed that a double-jump shift isn't the same beast anyway, but you and I
both saw it as just a single-jump shift initially, and _that_ is weak in
standard american.
btw, even in SAYC, not all jump-shifts are strong. It specifically says
that a jump-shift over an intervening _double_ is weak ("six-plus card suit,
like a weak two-bid...").
--
derek
Raija D
Carl
======
So is Jacoby 2NT (GF raise in major)
Derek Broughton
>
> "judyorcarl" <judyo...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:29c4e933-a8e0-48d9...@n35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 20, 8:25 am, Derek Broughton <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>> judyorcarl wrote:
>> > On Nov 19, 9:57 pm, Derek Broughton <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>> >> judyorcarl wrote:
>> >> > Not a weak jumpshift in SAYC.
>>
>> >> Well, no, as we've already discussed - but SAYC is _not_ "standard
>> >> american".
>>
>> > Do you have any evidence that WJS is "standard american"?
>>
>> It's what is taught in ACBL's classes, and it is not alertable. Good
>> enough for me.
>
> Look at the convention card. WJS not in competition is in red.
>
> So is Jacoby 2NT (GF raise in major)
Yes, and I have it on good authority that that has to be alerted, too, even
though it's a core part of SAYC. One of the reasons why I say SAYC is not
Standard American.
--
derek
john
>
> - Show quoted text -
I suspect there was an element "Lets make he realises just how strong
I am" involved here
John