What is this convention
Nick France
cue bid a first or second round control (normally Ace or King). I
remember a convention where your bids show controls in more than one
suit. I can best explain by giving an example. Suppose the bidding
goes 1S-3S then opener's bids have the following meaning
3NT - no first or second round control in clubs
4C - first or second round control in clubs but no first or second
round control in diamonds
4D - first or second round control in clubs and diamonds but no first
or second round control in hearts
4H - first or second round control in clubs, diamonds, and hearts
responder continues in the same manner. For example after opener bids
3NT then responder bids
4C - shows first or second round control in clubs but not in diamonds
4D - shows first or second round control in clubs and diamonds but not
hearts
4H - shows first or second round control in clubs, diamonds, and
hearts
4S - denies first or second round control in clubs
The benefit of the system is to stop in game if a suit is open (and of
course the downside is you tell the opponents what suit that is).
Does anyone know what this convention is called? Second, why isn't it
more popular with those that like to show first or second round
control cuebidding?
Nick France
Tivo John
This is similar in concept to Spiral Scan. There are numerous
references to Spiral Scan in a search of this newsgroup via Google
Groups.
John
Kieran Dyke
"Nick France" <gand...@att.net> wrote in message
news:6c46beb1-3438-48b5...@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com...
About thirty years ago Ron Klinger wrote about something like this (but in a
1st round cue style) as Relay Cues. This style dispensed with Blackwood once
you started cueing, so 4NT and even 5NT could be used as pivots. If a minor
suit was agreed, 4-minor was the pivot, not 3NT.
I think I like the 1st/2nd cue style better, although you need your RKC or
something later.
Tiggrr
henry...@yahoo.com
I would call these denial qbids (see Ultimate Club, where I first
learned of this distinction). An article on Wilfred Qbids,
essentially accomplishing the same thing, was published in the BW in
the late 1970's. Although Wilfred qbids never caught on, to the best
of my knowledge, they functioned as a way of showing wholesale
controls.
Henrysun909
castigamatti
Denial cue-bids are being actively used in symmetric relay bidding
system, 'ala' Moscito. Better though if the shape is known, otherwise
you are 'scanning' the suits from higher to lower ranking, i.e. from
spades to clubs. The problem being encountered are singleton honors
and suits headed by AKQ. Also judgment is needed sometimes as not to
bypass the only make-able contract. Not always easy. But I am not
sure these are denial cue-bids in the first place.
BR
Douglas Newlands
This seems odd terminology since denial cue bids pass the suits you hold
and bid the one you don't. I have only ever played them in a full relay
context but would have thought that to be called dcb, they would have to
maintain that essential characteristic.
Doug,
Tasmania
Dean
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sweep Cues by Ted brasher.
Very popular in Sydney in the 70's,.
Out of print now.
D./
metobillc
>
> - Show quoted text -
A small correction -- the author is Ted Brashler, and the book was
titled Sweep Q Bids and Other Treatments. It wasn't too difficult to
play these, and even as a relative beginner back in the early
nineties, my partner and I used them reasonably effectively.
Bill Campbell
Travis Crump
The fact that you appear to be bidding the cues you have in the OPs
description is largely a coincidence due to the fact that the first step
was 3N:
1st step - no first or second round control in suit A
2nd step - first or second round control in A but no first or second
round control in B
3rd step - first or second round control in A and B but no first
or second round control in C
4th step - first or second round control in A, B, and C[but not in D?]
How you want to organize the suits A->D is in a sense completely
arbitrary though while you are at it you may as well not ignore the
trump suit.
Travis
Douglas Newlands
> description is largely a coincidence due to the fact that the first step
> was 3N:
>
> 1st step - no first or second round control in suit A
> 2nd step - first or second round control in A but no first or second
> round control in B
> 3rd step - first or second round control in A and B but no first
> or second round control in C
> 4th step - first or second round control in A, B, and C[but not in D?]
>
> How you want to organize the suits A->D is in a sense completely
> arbitrary though while you are at it you may as well not ignore the
> trump suit.
OK, gotcha, that's certainly dcb. I was "fooled by the randomness"+ of
the example.
+ it's a book title that Sartaj (I think) mentioned in his writings
somewhere.
Doug,
Tasmanai
Player
Doug is correct , of course, they are not denial Cue Bids at all. As
Douggie points out dcbs bypass suits where honors are held and stop on
those without.
Sweep cues is the correct terminology.
RL
Nick France
Thanks to everyone that answered. Now I know where to look for more
answers.
Nick France