Bid these hands
Travis Crump
5 QT72 AQT65 865
North is dealer playing standardish 2/1, MPs, vul
Our unsuccessful auction
1S-1N; 2H-p
Should opener rebid 2N[2N is growing on me, but I didn't seriously
consider it at the table]? Is the heart suit then lost? How about 3H
for opener? Should responder bid 3H[or more]? What then does responder
do with a slightly better hand? Normally we are cautious of shortness
opposite partner's primary suit is that unwise in general?
As is usually the case when you score +230, both sides likely underbid,
but curious what people think.
Travis
Douglas Newlands
I think you need to look at Gazzilli.
Rebidding 2C (min 1 suiter or any 17+) seems to sort opener's problem
and responder will get you to game after 1S-1N-2C-2D-2H by whatever
route, probably a direct 4H and opener won't be fretting about unshown
values.
Doug,
Tasmania
OldPalooka
I don't have a good answer for opener's rebid, and I agree with 2H. I
don't think 2NT is too far out, but I don't think you can get back to
hearts without some artificial device.
I think responder should raise. Responder's pass discounts both the
singleton spade and diamond queen which is just too pessimistic,
especially when you add in the red tens. Not that there aren't a lot
of hands where both fit badly, but suppose you discount a full loser
so you have an 8 loser hand with a presumed 4-4 fit, you still have
the values for a raise.
Travis Crump
I suppose I could also play a big club. :) But I'm not. ;) I have
looked at it before though never tried it as I am mildly skeptical of
its lack of downsides in the much more frequent case where opener
doesn't have 17+.
Travis
Dave Flower
Well, the hands practically bid themselves at Precision:
1C 2D
2S 3H
4H pass
Dave Flower
Raija D
"Travis Crump" <pret...@techhouse.org> wrote in message
news:hktl5s$3lp$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Well I am not going to suggest you change system...it is annoying to get an
answer to a question that was not asked... and even if that was added, at
least answer the OP question if bothering to post. IMO. Could we all please
stop it... this is the postpolice talking :)
Responder should raise hearts. Although 2H may be a minimum, it could also
have some extras, just not enough to make a GF jumpshift. Even opposite
minimum, 3H should play alright.
Raija
henry...@yahoo.com
I would have raised 2h to 3h with the South hand. Couldn't North
rebid 2h with, say,
AKxxx
AKxx
xx
xx
and wouldn't you want to be in game opposite that?
Henrysun909
henry...@yahoo.com
I'm not sure I understand why a lack of downsides would be a reason
for skepticism ("I am mildly skeptical of its lack of downsides0, but
as a long-time Precisionist I would be willing to partner you on BBO
to give you a chance to see how Precision works. Even plain vanilla
Precision without asking bids is such a huge advantage over Standard
whenever opener has a balanced hand, a one suiter, or when opener has
a 5+ major and responder is weak that it is worth whatever ambiguities
are entailed in the 1d opening bid.
Let me know via private email if you'd like to spend some time with
Precision online.
Henrysun909
boblipton
Tough hands. Downgrading opener is not completely unreasonable.
Your long suits are topless. So S-1NT-3H might have worked, but it
might have been disastrous.
I also think that responder might have given a courtesy raise in case
opener held the 16-point hand that can't rebid 3H.
Unless, of course, you limit 1S-NT-3H to 5-5 in the majors, which is
overly restrictive and makes it a bad agreement decision.
Both underbid and might have fixed the problem in the bidding so I am
reluctant to assign more blame to either side. But I would have bid
1S-1NT-3H.
Bob
Joachim Parsch
North's bid is partly a matter of system (I used to play 3H as 55inv, with
2C as natural or any gameforce, which worked quite well), but 2H is not too
far off the mark in any case. 3H would be ok as well without special
agreements.
90% of the blame for missing game belongs IMHO to South, who has a 3H-bid in my
eyes.
Joachim
Nick France
Simple 2/1 I'd expect
1S 1NT
2H 3H
4H
While North does have 19 HCP I really don't think of the hand as worth
19+. South has a nice fit for North's second suit and should show
it. He also has a nice second suit. The hand is easily worth an
invitation.
Nick France
Travis Crump
Sorry for the ambiguous pronoun. 'It' was in reference to Gazilli. I
have played precision and have no qualms with precsion.
Travis
Andrew
> QT863 AK64 K AQJ
>
> 5 QT72 AQT65 865
>
> North is dealer playing standardish 2/1, MPs, vul
>
> Our unsuccessful auction
> 1S-1N; 2H-p
>
> Should opener rebid 2N
1. No. You dont want to bury the hearts.
> [2N is growing on me, but I didn't seriously
> consider it at the table]? Is the heart suit then lost? How about 3H
> for opener?
I don't like 3H with such a poor spade suit. You'd much rather be able
to show your strength via:
1S-1N
2H-2S
3C
> Should responder bid 3H[or more]?
Yes. He is worth 3H.
> What then does responder
> do with a slightly better hand? Normally we are cautious of shortness
> opposite partner's primary suit is that unwise in general?
>
> As is usually the case when you score +230, both sides likely underbid,
> but curious what people think.
If you want a better method to show opener's strong hands then adopt
Gazzilli.
Andrew
Will in New Haven
>
> 5 QT72 AQT65 865
>
> North is dealer playing standardish 2/1, MPs, vul
>
> Our unsuccessful auction
> 1S-1N; 2H-p
>
> Should opener rebid 2N[2N is growing on me, but I didn't seriously
> consider it at the table]? Is the heart suit then lost? How about 3H
> for opener? Should responder bid 3H[or more]? What then does responder
> do with a slightly better hand? Normally we are cautious of shortness
> opposite partner's primary suit is that unwise in general?
As I have said several times on this ng recently, being pessimistic
because of shortness in partner's "primary suit" is overdone. That is
because players have been choosing their bids based on pattern for
sixty years or so and no one is going to fail to open 1S on AXXXX or
even XXXXX, opposite which responder's holding is excellent.
Obviously, shortness in a suit that partner has used for a preempt or
an overcall or rebid strongly is a different matter.
I call the South hand ten or eleven dummy points or 2-4 cover cards
and I raise 2H to 3H.
> As is usually the case when you score +230, both sides likely underbid,
> but curious what people think.
I think South has a clear raise to three. I think North's rebid
decision is interesting but should not have led to this problem. I
think North's hand is too good for a 2H rebid but awkward for a 3H
rebid. A 2NT rebid risks losing Hearts and isn't guaranteed to get to
every good game. A 3NT rebid is grotesque. I would choose the awkward
3H rebid. I play methods where I can distinguish between two long
suits and long Spades with four Hearts but I would rebid 3H if we
didn't.
In the spirit of RGB, may I suggest that you play Roman, so you can
open 1H, intending to reverse into Spades, showing this hand at a
reasonable level and defining your suit lengths. :-,)
Or you can play a Forcing Club and decide what to bid after you open
1C and LHO's 2S bid comes back to you.
--
Will in New Haven
Eric Leong
Bidding anything less than 4H is a pitiful. Your hand can cover five
losers via two spade ruffs, the heart queen, and the diamond ace and
queen. Let's say partner has a 5=4=?=? yarbourgh. That means partner
has a 10 LTC hand and partner has a good chance to make 2H when he has
nothing. But partner opened so his hand would have at most 7-8 LTC
hand. Surely, even with a hand that would pass a 3H invitational
raise, partner should have a decent play for 4H in most instances.
Eric Leong
PS: A real problem arises when you have say S x H Q10xx D AQ10xx
C Kxx. How do you get across you have a singleton spade and an 11
count. Barry Rigal suggested we play 3NT to show this type of hand. He
learned this from one of the French Pairs who had won a world
championship.
Frances
>
> - Show quoted text -
I rarely agree with Eric's bidding, but this time responder ceratinly
has a clear raise to game over 2H.
Personally with the suggested x Q10xx AQ10xx Kxx I would have bid 4D
over 2H, showing a super-maximum with four hearts and a diamond side
suit.
Andrew
Having played it now for a year, I would call Gazzilli one of the best
conventions I have ever adopted. It is complicated and can only be
adopted in a partnership, but the gain over standard methods is very
noticeable and in practice the downside has been negligible.
Andrew
castigamatti
2NT - 3C
3H - 4H
All pass
I am not playing Puppet Stayman anymore, I don't like the convention
in question very much. I'll rather open 1M or 2C with those hands.
Here's a similar story, if I open 1S and I rebid 2NT partner won't
expect me to be holding a four card major, shading the point count
requirement for the 2NT opening bid makes more sense than rebidding 2H
with that 19 count or conversely 3H with that singleton honor. True,
in this case I have a five card major but if it were better I would
have to consider opening 1S and rebidding 3H, even on shaded values.
BR