German games: where to get, now?
Gary J. Robinson
I have gotten German games from two different dealers in the past, neither
of which seems to be still extant. Any advice as to where to get them now
for someone who lives in the U.S.?
Games People Play seems to have outrageous prices, so I am looking for
alternatives.
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Tennant Tranchin
Gary J. Robinson wrote:
>
> I have gotten German games from two different dealers in the past, neither
> of which seems to be still extant. Any advice as to where to get them now
> for someone who lives in the U.S.?
>
> Games People Play seems to have outrageous prices, so I am looking for
> alternatives.
As a retailer, I have to laugh when I see a comment like this.
If the
games were easy or cheap to bring in from Europe, everyone would do it.
Games People Play is one of the few ( and with a rather expensive
storefront to boot) willing to do this, and their prices are considered
"outrageous". I have not checked their prices in a month or so, but are
their prices on European games that much higher than the $60 price on
"Princess Ryan's Space Marines"? Come on guys, doing this stuff is
expensive!
Regards,
Tennant
Daniel Blum
The best option is probably to order from one of the German mail-order shops -
check the Game Cabinet for listings. Adam Spielt has an e-mail address, so
they might be the best option from the US. I just bought a lot of stuff from
Magnus Spiele, and they have good prices, but you'd have to call or fax them,
so it would cost a bit more for that (I placed the order at their shop in
Viernheim, so I didn't have to worry about that :)). Even with postage this
should be cheaper than Games People Play.
In rec.games.board Gary J. Robinson <wig...@concentric.net> wrote:
> I have gotten German games from two different dealers in the past, neither
> of which seems to be still extant. Any advice as to where to get them now
> for someone who lives in the U.S.?
> Games People Play seems to have outrageous prices, so I am looking for
> alternatives.
> --
> +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | Gary J. Robinson Remove blurp from address to reply |
> | Gary's Wargaming Web Page: http://www.concentric.net/~wiggler/ |
> +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
_______________________________________________________________________
Dan Blum to...@mcs.net
"Let it be granted that a controversy may be raised about any question,
and at any distance from that question." - Lewis Carroll
Ronald Olszewski
: In rec.games.board Gary J. Robinson <wig...@concentric.net> wrote:
: > I have gotten German games from two different dealers in the past, neither
: > of which seems to be still extant. Any advice as to where to get them now
: > for someone who lives in the U.S.?
: > Games People Play seems to have outrageous prices, so I am looking for
: > alternatives.
Try SFC trading (email Paul Evans for a catalog, pev...@sfcp.co.uk). Good
prices and great service. I think Wargames West also has some stock in
now, 1-800-SAY-GAMES. Not nearly the selection of SFC, but based in the
states.
--
-Ron Olszewski | You're one microscopic cog in his catastrophic plan
ro...@panix.com | Designed and directed by his red right hand
Gary Robinson
Tennant Tranchin (tranchn...@airmail.net) wrote:
: > I have gotten German games from two different dealers in the past, neither
: > of which seems to be still extant. Any advice as to where to get them now
: > for someone who lives in the U.S.?
: >
: > Games People Play seems to have outrageous prices, so I am looking for
: > alternatives.
:
: As a retailer, I have to laugh when I see a comment like this.
What is funny about trying to get the best price I can for an item I want
to buy?
: If the games were easy or cheap to bring in from Europe, everyone
: would do it.
I am not suggesting "everyone" should do it, I am looking for those who
are doing it.
: Games People Play is one of the few ( and with a rather expensive
: storefront to boot)
Since I'm about 1200 miles away from them, their storefront doesn't
concern me all that much. Why do you bring it up? It's irrelevant.
: willing to do this,
I'm sure they do it to make money, not out of the goodness of their
hearts.
: and their prices are considered "outrageous". I have not checked
: their prices in a month or so, but are their prices on European
: games that much higher than the $60 price on
: "Princess Ryan's Space Marines"? Come on guys, doing this stuff is
: expensive!
Well, as an example, I recently got Tal Der Konige from Eurogames for $59.
Games People Play wants $102 for the same game. "Outrageous" comes to
mind. As for Princess Ryan, I would simply get it from a mail-order
dealer for $40 if I wanted it.
And please don't start the "mail order is killing the hobby argument.
When you come and open a boardgame store in my town I will listen to it,
otherwise it is academic as far as I am concerned.
: Tennant
Gary
Geenius at Wrok
On 29 Jul 1997, Gary Robinson wrote:
> And please don't start the "mail order is killing the hobby argument.
> When you come and open a boardgame store in my town I will listen to it,
> otherwise it is academic as far as I am concerned.
Will your town buy $1,500 of product a week from such a store? Because
that's about what it'll take to cover the most basic of overhead -- rent,
utilities and one shopkeeper's salary. Sadly, very few U.S. markets will
support that. It's the only reason I don't open one myself.
--
"I wish EVERY day could be a shearing festival!" -- The 10 Commandments
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Keith Ammann is gee...@albany.net * "This must be what evil tastes like!"
www.albany.net/~geenius * Live with honor, endure with grace * Analects 2:24
Gary Robinson
Geenius at Wrok (gee...@albany.net) wrote:
: On 29 Jul 1997, Gary Robinson wrote:
:
: > And please don't start the "mail order is killing the hobby argument.
: > When you come and open a boardgame store in my town I will listen to it,
: > otherwise it is academic as far as I am concerned.
:
: Will your town buy $1,500 of product a week from such a store? Because
: that's about what it'll take to cover the most basic of overhead -- rent,
: utilities and one shopkeeper's salary. Sadly, very few U.S. markets will
: support that. It's the only reason I don't open one myself.
Probably not, which is why mail order is great for me and the other gamers
around here.
Gary
starlord
Apolologies for the mistake below. I didn't get the first letter of
this thread and wound up confusing who is on who's side in the
argument. I meant to agree with Gary of the original post. Next time
I'll just leave identifing names out and confuse everybody equally.
Sorry bout that
Rob
starlord wrote:
>
> Have to agree with Tennant Tranchin on this one. Games People Play is
> very expensive when it comes to imports. Eurogames (retailer) and
> Mayfair (manufacturer) have both shown in the past that the cost of
> imports does not have to be the price that GPP charges. (I also find
> that the personel at the store in Cambridge were aloof to the point of
> snobishness, unless you were paying 200-300 dollars for a chess set)
> They also do not carry a particularly good selection of the german
> games. I was there in July and didn't see the new El Grande expansion,
> Mississippi Queen, or Lowenhurtz. What is the point if you cant get the
> games everyone talks about.
>
> On a side note; it is usually cheaper to purchase the games (if your
> planning on more than 5) directly from Adam Spiele in germany and pay
> the shipping charges (somewhere between 20-30% of the order depending on
> shipping method. Carabande is another case but we wont get into
> that...) than it is to buy from GPP. There is something seriously wrong
> with this.
>
> Saying this, I will admit that I see nothing wrong with what GPP is
> doing -- if your the only seller in the market then you set the price --
> but I see no reason to defend them either. The current FAQ for rgb and
> rgbm both have the addresses for Adam Spiele and Abacus Spiele and I
> recommend both sources. Adam Spiele used to give a 10% discount on
> overseas purchases but I don't know if they still do. Also because of
> the mark dollar current exchange rate the costs of the games are pretty
> good (50DM = ~$30US) which means things like Airlines are only $22
> american. Even with 30% shipping the charge is only $28, not even bad
> by domestic standards.
>
> Sorry got to rambling there
>
> Hope it helps
>
> ROb
> > And please don't start the "mail order is killing the hobby argument.
> > When you come and open a boardgame store in my town I will listen to it,
> > otherwise it is academic as far as I am concerned.
> >
> > : Tennant
> >
> > Gary
>
> --
> "Once you pull the pin out of Mr. Grenade,
> he is no longer your friend."
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> patch of fur on the highway"
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"Once you pull the pin out of Mr. Grenade,
he is no longer your friend."
---------------
The squirrel's motto: "Live fast, die young, and leave a flat
patch of fur on the highway"
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, §227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
starlord
Pitt Crandlemire
starlord <star...@concentric.net> wrote:
>Have to agree with Tennant Tranchin on this one. Games People Play is
>very expensive when it comes to imports. Eurogames (retailer) and
>Mayfair (manufacturer) have both shown in the past that the cost of
>imports does not have to be the price that GPP charges. (I also find
>that the personel at the store in Cambridge were aloof to the point of
>snobishness, unless you were paying 200-300 dollars for a chess set)
I'll reserve comment on the cost of imports at GPP since others have adequately
expressed the differing points of view on that issue. However, though I
wouldn't dispute starlord's opinion of GPP personnel, since that must be a
purely subjective opinion, I would like to weigh in with a different
experience. I have been shopping at GPP on the average of about once every 2
months for the past 3-4 years and I have always found the store staff
courteous, pleasant, and helpful. They have treated me that way from my first
visit right up to my most recent. Moreover, since I usually spend a
considerable amount of time in the store browsing, I've had opportunity to
peripherally observe their interaction with other customers and it matches the
way they treat me.
>They also do not carry a particularly good selection of the german
>games. I was there in July and didn't see the new El Grande expansion,
>Mississippi Queen, or Lowenhurtz. What is the point if you cant get the
>games everyone talks about.
I was in the store last week and I thought they had a very good selection,
including all of the above games except Mississippi Queen, which they had
recently sold out of.
I have no relationship with GPP except as a customer and I daresay that they
don't even know my name, since I've never volunteered it. I just wanted to let
it be known that my experience as a customer of GPP was very positive.
-Pitt Crandlemire
pi...@syncon.com
Aforandy
In article <33DE10...@concentric.net>, starlord
<star...@concentric.net> writes:
>Saying this, I will admit that I see nothing wrong with what GPP is
>doing -- if your the only seller in the market then you set the price --
>but I see no reason to defend them either. The current FAQ for rgb and
>rgbm both have the addresses for Adam Spiele and Abacus Spiele and I
>recommend both sources. Adam Spiele used to give a 10% discount on
>overseas purchases but I don't know if they still do. Also because of
>the mark dollar current exchange rate the costs of the games are pretty
>good (50DM = ~$30US) which means things like Airlines are only $22
>american. Even with 30% shipping the charge is only $28, not even bad
>by domestic standards.
Based on recent tourist rates of $1.6 to pound and 2.9 marks to he pound
I guess 1.8 marks = dollar
A current wholesale price of MQ/Lowenherz is 36 marks/20 dollars, plus
post
& maybe customs but less EC VAT taxes, which in Germany means their MWST
which is what? 15%?. It is relatively easy to find a number of like-minded
game buyers
-- they are the people you play with -- and ask Abacus...@t-online.de
for a wholesale account and you are in the game business. Its amazing how
buyers possess mothers or elderly relations in your neighbourhood who they
will see slightly more often if they can pick up game orders for
themselves
and their opponent at the same time, so, if you are extra-lazy,
you don't even have to wrap these up into parcels. Wholesale orders
to Germany may need to be large in order to offset post to the US,
say 30 items plus? Wholesale prices do vary but retail prices are based
more on size & type of game, so sellers can really profiteer on some stuff
[eg Bohnana: 7 marks wholesale, 12 dollars full retail], or when the
exchange rate is good,
or when a product becomes a craze like Collector Card Games, or ALL THREE
--
if Magic hadn't come along, some retailers mght never have realised just
how many copies
of Settlers you can get inside a long-wheelbase Jaguar.
Ideally you would offer your customers and demand from your suppliers
a facility to get anything quickly.
Damage in transit is a problem, &
this is something you & your customers have to live with to some degree.
The other "benefit" is that you are greatly benefitting the hobby, indeed
you
become part of it. Undoubtedly some people like buying from shops they can
visit.
Otherwise such
places play a small role in advertising the availability of products but
good mags and the internet can do this rather better. If you are to go
to the expense of running a shop you need to have great diversity.
Many bigger shops in large cities would be more than happy to
find reliable permanent sources abroad for TOP quality backgammon sets,
all types of chess, mah jong, and especially Japanese Go boards/stones
and the like as these are high price high margin items always in demand
which would attract the type of customer who might buy other types of
game.
It helps to have a good mailing list. People love price lists especially
with second-hand/out-of-print stuff. Some have run game businesses
as ancilliaries to their main operation, especially if they sit close to a
phone
and computer monitor all day anyway.
What the US needs is a good independent game review magazine. Such a
mag [& its readers & game sellers] would benefit enormously if it
cracked the US market. SUMO is the obvious candidate [sumo...@aol.com].
There are others, but none whose editor struggles unsuccessfuly to keep
the
mag under 100 pages, a consequence of being close to the action on both
sides of the Channel & the Atlantic.
It *seems* easy: all you have to do is think of a figure you want to earn
and multiply that by four or five and aim for that turnover. However
anything big will lose money whilst it establishes, and will take all your
time,
so there is a lot to be said for day-jobs and games as a sideline.
Then you will have a good reason to visit
Origins, GenCon and the hotel next to AvalonCon and a few other places
every year with your convention stall, and innundate with price lists,
web sites, adverts.
The German industry doesn't seem very keen to expand its horizons,
though maybe this will change,
Andy Daglish
afor...@aol.com
Tami
Well, we've got some...
FunAgain has been selling the remaining inventory of European Game
Source and White Wind games, and I've printed that inventory over at
rec.games.board.marketplace so as not to upset anybody on this list...
:)
Come check it out... I don't know what Games People Play charges, but I
can tell you what a hassle it was for EGS to get those games in the
first place, and that a lot of expense goes into importing European
games. I'd be interested to hear what you think of our prices on the
remaining games.
Thanks for reading...
--
Magma
FunAgain Games
funa...@mind.net
1644 Ashland Street, #2
Ashland, OR 97520
(541) 482-1939
CafeJay
There is another answer. Recently, I have begun to import German games.
They will be available through mail order and normal distribution to
retail stores. Although the distribution terms are still being worked out,
the mail order is set up and we expect to be able to ship (Fed Ex, not
UPS) starting next week.
We showed the games we have at both Origins and Gencon and got very good
response on the games and the prices.
So who are we? We are Rio Rancho Games - a great name for a company that
imprts German games don't you think? The name comes from our location near
the Rio Grande (I'm not too clever with names, I guess) in Albuqerque, NM.
We are loosely associated with Wargames West and they are taking the mail
order requests for us. You can call them at (800) SAY-GAME to place an
order.
We have many of the games from Goldsieber and Abacus, and some from Amigo
and Hans im Gluck. For example:
Mississippi Queen - $40 (sold out, but taking orders)
Lowenherz - $40
El Grande - $40
Konig & Intrigant - $13
Konig & Intrigant promo cards - $2 service change w/out order
Medici - $35
Bohnanza - $12
Njet - $12
Ole - $10
En Garde - $10
These prices are all "introductory" and may change when we get going with
everything in place. Some prices will drop and others may go up.
Specifically, I think the prices for the larger games will rise to $45,
but no higher - some of the card game prices may drop.
Call to place an order or inquire of the other games we have available -
we also will take special requests and add games if there is interest.
Jay
Magma
> Gary J. Robinson wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I have gotten German games from two different dealers in the past, neither
>
> > of which seems to be still extant. Any advice as to where to get them now
>
> > for someone who lives in the U.S.?
>
Just some advance notice: In addition to our large inventory of "recycled
games", we're going to begin stocking the European games so dear to all our
hearts in early December, pending the arrival of the first shipment from orders
placed at Essen. I will echo Tennant's comment that these games are far from
cheap to import, but we'll try to offer the best prices we can. We currently
have some remaining games from our initial buyout of European Game Source's
inventory.
Thanks in advance for checking us out!
--
Magma
FunAgain Games
www.funagain.com (up by 10/7/97)