NetSet: Network Settlers
Matt Gardner
Hello all,
I am working on NetSet, a freeware Windows 95 computer game which
uses the same rules as the boardgame Settlers of Catan by Klaus
Teuber. My goal for this project is to provide an interface for
users everywhere to play against opponents via the internet using
a TCP/IP connection.
By the end of this weekend (September 28) I will be ready to
release an alpha version of this program to anyone who would
like to see what NetSet is all about. The alpha version
supports hotseat play for four players only; TCP/IP will be
added to the next release expected in November.
I am looking for one or more volunteers to put this game up
on their web page or ftp site. I do not have the bandwidth
resources to provide download access to this program from
my site. E-Mail me if you would like to volunteer!
For more information and a screenshot, please visit the NetSet
homepage at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~mgardner0/index.html
Any comments / suggestions / criticism welcome as this is my
first PC project.
-Matt Gardner
mgar...@earthlink.net
David Gibbs
In article <342C1D...@earthlink.net>,
Matt Gardner <mgar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>I am working on NetSet, a freeware Windows 95 computer game which
>uses the same rules as the boardgame Settlers of Catan by Klaus
>Teuber. My goal for this project is to provide an interface for
>users everywhere to play against opponents via the internet using
>a TCP/IP connection.
Have you talked to Mayfair about permission to distribute this
game in the US? Have you talked to the original German publisher
of Die Siedler von Catan about the right to distribute this game
outside the US? There are definitely licensing/trademark issues
here that you should look into.
-David
--
-David Gibbs
dag...@qnx.com
Rocky Balboa
Chris Byler
David Gibbs <dag...@qnx.com> wrote in article <610it6$4...@qnx.com>...
At least get the original designer's permission! Haven't you heard of
plagiarism?
Assuming that you have gotten the designer's permission, I *strongly*
suggest you make every attempt to make the game portable to NT, Mac, Unix
etc. I'm sure you will find people willing to assist with the OS-specific
aspects of the various ports if you open up the project and release your
sources for the W95 version (and have made some attempts to make the code
easily maintainable and expandable in this fashion). But restricting the
game to one platform is just silly, there is no reason to do so.
If you want "users everywhere" to be able to play via the internet, you'll
need to port it to (at least) Mac, NT, and various Unices with X, or find
someone else who can.
Usually this is not a hard problem if there is enough interest in the game
(e.g., the roguelike games, empire, etc., which had open sources and were
privately ported to everything from VMS to MS-DOS.)
Be careful to use common, well-known graphics formats, too, if you are
including graphics. .GIF and .JPG are probably workable.
Are you using C++?
Chris
David Gibbs
In article <343474...@earthlink.net>,
Matthew Gardner <mgar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>David Gibbs wrote:
>>
>> In article <342C1D...@earthlink.net>,
>> Matt Gardner <mgar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >Hello all,
>> >
>> >I am working on NetSet, a freeware Windows 95 computer game which
>> >uses the same rules as the boardgame Settlers of Catan by Klaus
>> >Teuber. My goal for this project is to provide an interface for
>> >users everywhere to play against opponents via the internet using
>> >a TCP/IP connection.
>>
>> Have you talked to Mayfair about permission to distribute this
>> game in the US? Have you talked to the original German publisher
>> of Die Siedler von Catan about the right to distribute this game
>> outside the US? There are definitely licensing/trademark issues
>> here that you should look into.
>
>"Settlers of Catan" and thus does not infringe upon any
>trademark, and if you looked at a screenshot you would notice that
>I am using original art and have not scanned any portion of any
>version of a Kosmos or Mayfair product. Mayfair has posted
>rules to the Settlers of Catan boardgame on its website at
>http://www.coolgames.com, and there are English translations
>of the German rules available at multiple websites, primarily
>the Gamecabinet. The rules are not being distributed by me
>in any way. I feel I have made clear my intention of
>keeping this a freeware project and am puzzled that I am
>being criticized for it. Perhaps I am reading too much into
>your post.
I did not say that you should not do it. I just said that you
should contact the people who market Settlers about this. If this
will not infringe on them, then of course they say go ahead with it.
As to the issue of the title not being the same, and the art not
being scanned from theirs, etc, I'm not a lawyer but I don't think
that is neccessarily relevant. The core idea/design of the game is
the same. Look at the movie industry, based on books... often the
movie will only be loosely based on the book, sometimes quite different
plot, totally different name, yet there are still very definitely
licensing/intellectual property issues there. I think your NetSet
is (at least as advertised) more similar to Settlers of Catan/Die
Siedler von Catan then many movies are to the books/stories where
the authors of the book/stories are paid for their contribution.
Also, though you are making this freeware, that may not be important.
While it is true that you won't make any profit, if Mayfair or Kosmos
intended to release a software version of the game, you may reduce its
saleability. Or, they may think this is a good idea, and want to
package and sell your version.
BTW, I did take a look at your web page, it looks like a nice
implementation.
Matthew Gardner
Matthew Gardner
Chris Byler wrote:
> But restricting the
> game to one platform is just silly, there is no reason to do so.
My reason for doing so is that this is a recreational project. Any
games
programming I do in the future will be under Windows95, for better or
worse, and I want to focus on a single platform for this project. So
far I have spent 8 weeks of spare time on this project. This includes
software design, the graphics, the coding - everything. This is MUCH
less time than I anticipated, and was only possible because I have been
using several Windows 95 libraries to speed the process. Cross-platform
development is not as trivial as you seem to imply.
> If you want "users everywhere" to be able to play via the internet, you'll
> need to port it to (at least) Mac, NT, and various Unices with X, or find
> someone else who can.
Perhaps my initially stated goal was a bit too broad, I am not a
crusader. ;^) My real motive for this project is to get my feet wet
with Windows 95 development. Coincidentally, I am not using DirectX so
the
code should run fine on an NT.
> Usually this is not a hard problem if there is enough interest in the game
> (e.g., the roguelike games, empire, etc., which had open sources and were
> privately ported to everything from VMS to MS-DOS.)
Despite the fact that the game is freeware it will not be open source.
Due to the use of libraries, porting will NOT be fun or easy. I may
(doubtfully) write an X-windows / Motif version but I would rather move
on
to another Windows 95 project after this one is finished. X-Windows
development is too close to my real job to be enjoyable.
> Are you using C++?
Yes.
Thanks for your comments,
-Matt
Chuck Messenger
> > Matt Gardner <mgar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >Hello all,
>
> > >I am working on NetSet, a freeware Windows 95 computer game which
> > >uses the same rules as the boardgame Settlers of Catan by Klaus
> > >Teuber. My goal for this project is to provide an interface for
> > >users everywhere to play against opponents via the internet using
> > >a TCP/IP connection.
>
> > Have you talked to Mayfair about permission to distribute this
> > game in the US? Have you talked to the original German publisher
> > of Die Siedler von Catan about the right to distribute this game
> > outside the US? There are definitely licensing/trademark issues
> > here that you should look into.
>
> plagiarism?
>
> Assuming that you have gotten the designer's permission, I *strongly*
> suggest you make every attempt to make the game portable to NT, Mac, Unix
> etc. I'm sure you will find people willing to assist with the OS-specific
> aspects of the various ports if you open up the project and release your
> sources for the W95 version (and have made some attempts to make the code
> game to one platform is just silly, there is no reason to do so.
>
> need to port it to (at least) Mac, NT, and various Unices with X, or find
> someone else who can.
>
> (e.g., the roguelike games, empire, etc., which had open sources and were
> privately ported to everything from VMS to MS-DOS.)
>
> including graphics. .GIF and .JPG are probably workable.
>
> Are you using C++?
>
> Chris
Actually, I've made a Settlers Server myself, in Java, so it will
run on any platform (_theoretically_!!). However, I'm not doing
anything with it because I don't have permission (haven't sought
any yet). It would sure be nice if game companies granted some
kind of open permission to do these sorts of things, with some
sort of restriction. In truth, such efforts would only work to
increase the popularity of the game. Naturally, however, companies
(esp. Avalon Hill) want to play these things close to their chest --
not giving up any rights lest they regret it sometime in the future.
A pity, really, since based on what I've read about just here on
RGB, it seems there are dozens of people willing and able to
develop games out of the sheer love of game-playing. Think how
cool it would be if we could play our favorite games over the
Internet, unmolested, with perhaps hundreds of other like-minded
enthusiasts... (dream dream dream)
- Chuck Messenger
Joshua Kaufman
On Sat, 04 Oct 1997 18:25:56 -0400, Chuck Messenger <c...@servtech.com>
wrote:
<snip>
It would sure be nice if game companies granted some
>kind of open permission to do these sorts of things, with some
>sort of restriction. In truth, such efforts would only work to
>increase the popularity of the game. Naturally, however, companies
>(esp. Avalon Hill) want to play these things close to their chest --
>not giving up any rights lest they regret it sometime in the future.
You are right. It would be nice if companies would do this, but I
think they are protective about letting individuals doing this,
because they want to do it on their own. (Although I will concede if
that was the case, they would do it by now, although some companies
are looking into electronic products.) I think the problem is that
the board gaming market is well...not very lucrative and they see this
as a way to infringe on their market. Although I think such efforts
would increase the popularity also.
The bottom line is that the people who run board gaming companies are
idiots. I've noticed this ever since I have gotten into board
gaming. Maybe that explains why so many board gaming companies have
problems. Poor mismanagement. And because the people who run these
companies are idiots, they perceive something to be the case, when
that really isn't the case.
>A pity, really, since based on what I've read about just here on
>RGB, it seems there are dozens of people willing and able to
>develop games out of the sheer love of game-playing. Think how
>cool it would be if we could play our favorite games over the
>Internet, unmolested, with perhaps hundreds of other like-minded
>enthusiasts... (dream dream dream)
It would be great. In fact, I bet if Mayfair set up their own
website and charged a nominal yearly fee (maybe $30), they could make
tons of money. (Of course the few couple months of the website, they
could offer it for free just to get people to show up. But here I am
giving those dumb board game companies ideas again.) This would be a
website where you can play Settlers with people all over the world.
But the thought hasn't occurred to them yet. (or maybe it has and it
was just too brilliant of an idea for them). Where I am, I don't
really have a group to play Settlers with and I am addicted to the
game.
I would love to be able to find competition from all over the world.
I am pretty good at the game myself and always look for new fresh
blood and see how they play the game. I have come across many
different strategies and paying $30 to play Settlers with people
whenever I want would be cool.
And yes, I am very cynical toward the idiots that run board games, if
that isn't obvious already.. :)
John R. Cooper
On 3 Oct 1997 19:21:43 GMT, dag...@qnx.com (David Gibbs) wrote:
> As to the issue of the title not being the same, and the art not
> being scanned from theirs, etc, I'm not a lawyer but I don't think
> that is neccessarily relevant. The core idea/design of the game is
> the same.
While it would be in Matt's best interest to have the blessing of
Kosmos or Mayfair, he does not really need it since he is not using
any copyrighted material nor is he infringing on any trademarks (he is
not, for instance calling it _Settlers of Catan_ or any variant
thereof). He is perfectly free to recreate the game under a different
name, even though the underlying mechanics are identical. Game
mechanics can not be copyrighted, trademarked, or patented (unless you
can demonstrate that the mechanics represent an accounting process).
Kosmos and/or Mayfair could easily slap an injunction on Matt, or
threaten his ISP similarly, even though they would lose any resulting
court case. TSR had no legal leg to stand on when they went on an
Internet witchhunt looking to purge all fan-created D&D supplemental
material that used standard terminology (like THAC0, Armor Class,
Saving Throw, Hit Points, etc.). Matt is safe from conviction, but he
is not necessarily safe from being dragged into expensive legal
proceedings.
Witness _Dogs of War_.
> Look at the movie industry, based on books... often the
> movie will only be loosely based on the book, sometimes quite different
> plot, totally different name, yet there are still very definitely
> licensing/intellectual property issues there. I think your NetSet
> is (at least as advertised) more similar to Settlers of Catan/Die
> Siedler von Catan then many movies are to the books/stories where
> the authors of the book/stories are paid for their contribution.
Game systems are not like movies, books, paintings, inventions,
musical compositions, or any of that stuff. Like it or not, game
systems and game mechanics are not protectable. Only the EXACT written
expression of the rules, the EXACT artwork used, and the trademarked
name of the game.
> Also, though you are making this freeware, that may not be important.
> While it is true that you won't make any profit, if Mayfair or Kosmos
> intended to release a software version of the game, you may reduce its
> saleability. Or, they may think this is a good idea, and want to
> package and sell your version.
It is most definitely in Matt's best interests to be on good terms
with them on this. It could benefit him in many ways. But strictly
speaking, he can not be legally prevented from doing what he is doing.
> BTW, I did take a look at your web page, it looks like a nice
> implementation.
Yes, it is very nice. I have my own version of NetSet that I've
been working on for many many months, but it isn't quite as pretty
(and it uses far too much screen real estate as compared to Matt's).
-John
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