WWII game. Which one?
Mindspring
something with a little more realism. What is the definitive war game for
the european theatre, pacific theatre and the whole war these days? Given
that what ever this is will probably be too complex of a jump, what would
anyone recommend as the next step. Hitler's War, Victory in the Pacific?
Any help would be appreciated.
John Meunier
online. It is simple enough to master quickly, but introduces you to many of
the concepts/mechanics that most wargames use.
John
Ken Agress
<reb...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>My friend and I are looking to make the transition from Axis and Allies to
>something with a little more realism. What is the definitive war game for
>the european theatre, pacific theatre and the whole war these days? Given
>that what ever this is will probably be too complex of a jump, what would
>anyone recommend as the next step. Hitler's War, Victory in the Pacific?
>Any help would be appreciated.
>
If you're looking for the Pacific Theater, and don't particularly care
that land warfare is terribly abstracted, then VitP is a positively
*great* buy. The mechanics are quite simple, the play is fast, the
options available to each player extensive, and the replayability
factor is high. Try landing a copy of the second edition, though, as
the rules were updated and cleaned up compared to the first edition.
About the only other game I've played enough to discuss in detail is
Third Reich, and that is a terribly complex game that might be too
much of a stretch. However, it is a very, very good game for the
period you're interested in. I would recommend trying to find the
Third Edition over the latest, which is "Advanced Third Reich," as I'm
not of the opinion that the diplomacy and research rules the latter
adds (the major changes to the game) add much. If anything, I think
they make the Axis an even bigger juggernaut than they already are
unless the Allies get very, very lucky.
I can say that I've heard extremely good things about Krieg!, which is
a newer game on WWII with simpler mechanics than Third Reich. I
haven't had the chance to play it myself, but I've a cousin who's a
huge WWII gamer (ATR, World in Flames, etc.), and he likes it a whole
lot.
Ken Agress
Glen E. Bailey Jr.
theatre to another (say, Europe to Pacific), then World in Flames is the way
to go. Well, there is a translation in map scale, but a unit works the same
on
any map.
IMHO, of course. :)
E-mail my if you have any questions.
url of the company, Australian Design Group:
http://www.a-d-g.com.au/
I do not work for them. Really.
Glen
Christian Killoran
Mindspring <reb...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8dj8g6$1pe$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
> My friend and I are looking to make the transition from Axis and Allies to
> something with a little more realism. What is the definitive war game for
> the european theatre, pacific theatre and the whole war these days? Given
> that what ever this is will probably be too complex of a jump, what would
> anyone recommend as the next step. Hitler's War, Victory in the Pacific?
I think Hitler's War and VITP both qualify as excellent "next steps."
Neither is a conventional wargame, but both are a bit more realistic than
A&A.
The suggestion of The Russian Campaign is also excellent, especially as this
would be a good intro to more conventional wargames (and boasts one of AH's
better rulebooks, IMO.)
Other games to look at might include:
D-Day (Smithsonian version.)
Guadalcanal / Midway (Smithsonian versions.)
Storm Over Arnhem
War at Sea (very easy to learn, fast to play, and if you like it then get
VITP.)
And if your tastes run at all toward the tactical, I think that both
PanzerBlitz and Up Front hold up very, very well despite their age. (FWIW I
classify Up Front as THE definitive war game of WWII.)
Ken Agress
<geba...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>If you want complex, the whole world, and no translation of units from one
>theatre to another (say, Europe to Pacific), then World in Flames is the way
>to go. Well, there is a translation in map scale, but a unit works the same
>on
>any map.
Though WiF is probably well "over the heads" of somebody who's used to
Axis and Allies.
Ken Agress
Walt Mulder
Reich, and a good step up from A&A with fairly easy mechanics.
Mindspring <reb...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8dj8g6$1pe$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
> My friend and I are looking to make the transition from Axis and Allies to
> something with a little more realism. What is the definitive war game for
> the european theatre, pacific theatre and the whole war these days? Given
> that what ever this is will probably be too complex of a jump, what would
> anyone recommend as the next step. Hitler's War, Victory in the Pacific?
Michael Oberly
I think Victory Games 'Pacific War' is the best strategic game on the
subject,and one of the best strategy wargames ever made,but it may be
overly complex for you at this time(though it's really not that
bad).As someone else suggested,'Victory in the Pacific' is a lot of
fun,and is easily learned without being as abstract as Axis & Aliies
and the like.
>My friend and I are looking to make the transition from Axis and Allies to
>something with a little more realism. What is the definitive war game for
>the european theatre, pacific theatre and the whole war these days? Given
>that what ever this is will probably be too complex of a jump, what would
>anyone recommend as the next step. Hitler's War, Victory in the Pacific?
>Any help would be appreciated.
>
>
--
Mike Oberly * Rain can't wet me,
when I have my poui in my hand. *
* Rain can't wet me,
I advancing on the foe like a roaring lion!*
Soca/Calypso fan?Check out http://www.iere.com/thebarn
RRI1
> My friend and I are looking to make the transition from Axis and Allies to
> something with a little more realism. What is the definitive war game for
> the european theatre, pacific theatre and the whole war these days? Given
> that what ever this is will probably be too complex of a jump, what would
> anyone recommend as the next step. Hitler's War, Victory in the Pacific?
> Any help would be appreciated.
First things, first: WW2 in many ways was two separate (and quite different)
wars that just happened to be going on simultaneously. The European theater is
basically a huge land war between (mostly) the Russians vs. the Germans and the
Pacific Theater was praimarily a huge sea war between Japan and (mostly) the
US.
That means that there rather few games that tackle both theaters well. You are
probably better off trying different strategic games for each theater:
Complexity I am using the AH scale: 1 is very easy, 10 is extremely complex
Axis and Allies would rate about a 3 or 4 on that scale.
European Theatre:
- The Russian Campaign (AH) This is a classic AH treatment of the Eastern
Front. Complexity: 4 Time: about 6 hours+
- East Front (Columbia): This is a "Block" game of the Eastern Front--where
the units are wood blocks which allow easy fog of war and easy step reduction.
Complexity about 5-6, Time: about 4-6 hours for a 6 month scenario and each of
the scenarios can be connected for a longer game.
- Krieg! and Totaler Krieg! (Decision Games) I have not played these but they
get good reviews and are of moderate complexity (6 or so)
- World in Flames (ADG): very long monster game that really can cover both
theaters. To play a full game can many months--though shorter scenarios are
available for a weekend play (8-9 complexity)
- Third Reich/Advanced 3R (AH): Very complex strategic game AH rates it 9-10.
A3R does have a companion Pacific Theater game (Empire of the Rising Sun)
Pacific Theater:
- Victory in the Pacific (AH): This is a classic simple game of the Pacific
War. The Pacifc is broken up into broad areas where you fight foir control of
each area: Very simple (Complexity level 2-3)
- Pacific War (VG), and Empire of the Rising Sun (AH) provide much more
complicated games covering the Pacifc War.
Actually, these aren't your only options. Many wargames portray battles or
evensmall parts of battles. Here are some of the simpler WW2 games that I
like:
- Storm over Arnhem (AH): This is "impulse" game (players move small groups
of units each turn creating a back and forth play style) portraying the
British attempting to hold hold onto the "Bridge Too Far" in Operation Market
Garden in September 1944. (Complexity: 3 time: 3-4 hours)
- Breakout Normandy (AH): Expands this system to cover D-Day. Considered the
pinnacle of this system, though it considered the pinnacle of the Impulse
system (Complexity: 6, Time: 4 hours for a one week game.)
- Upfront (AH): This is a card based game of infantry fighting in WW2. I
think its my favorite game, but it does take several imaginative leaps to get
into the game. OTOH, the game packs more action than just about any game I
know. Probably best learned from another player (Complexity: 5, Time 1-2
hours)
- Midway/Guadalcanal, Smithsonian edition (AH): These are classic
introductory games. Basically, you move your carrier task forces and search
planes behind a screen and search for your opponent task forces. Basically
these are the same game set on different maps. Each has numerous optional
rules to allow more realism in this realtively simple system. (Complexity 2-3,
Time 2-3 hours, 1 hour for surface actions.)
- Down in Flames Series (rise of the Luftwaffe and 8th Air Force) (GMT):
These are card games on airial dogfight and bombing in Europe. Basically you
play manuever cards against opponents get better firing position against them.
They attempt to play cards that counter your actions. Fun and Fast paced.
Complexity 2-3, Time 15 minutes for dogfight, 2-5 hours, for a full campaign of
bombing missions.
This is just a small sample of simple wargames that might interest you. Enjoy
the ride!
Richard Irving rr...@aol.com
Made with recycled electrons!
dave...@bestspamfoiler.com
Yes, that's the best next step to take after A&A. Beyond that, there are
lots of choices for even more complex and realistic games.
--
Dave Kohr <dave...@bestSPAMFOILER.com> Be sure to remove the SPAMFOILER!
Visit the Silicon Valley Boardgamers at http://www.best.com/~davekohr/svb
"the skinning of momentum-maddened, greedy Dan Gillmor, Feb. 13, 2000 column
suckers is a necessary part of capitalism" in the San Jose Mercury News :-)
Janitor_of_Lunacy
RRI1 <rr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000422143518...@ng-cq1.aol.com...
> Mindspring wrote:
>
> > My friend and I are looking to make the transition from Axis and Allies
to
> > something with a little more realism. What is the definitive war game
for
> > the european theatre, pacific theatre and the whole war these days?
Given
> > that what ever this is will probably be too complex of a jump, what
would
Pacific?
> > Any help would be appreciated.
>
> First things, first: WW2 in many ways was two separate (and quite
different)
> wars that just happened to be going on simultaneously. The European
theater is
> basically a huge land war between (mostly) the Russians vs. the Germans
and the
> Pacific Theater was praimarily a huge sea war between Japan and (mostly)
the
> US.
>
> That means that there rather few games that tackle both theaters well.
You are
> probably better off trying different strategic games for each theater:
The one that I have found best that covers all of the European theatre is
the 2nd edition
of TSR/SPI "World War II: ETO". (Note that this is the second edition of the
TSR/SPI game,
the original early 70s SPI game isn't very good at all.
It's actually the best playable east front game I've seen, plus it still
works on the west front.
I found it more playable than Advanced 3rd Reich (which also seemed to
suffer from an
excess of chrome, addons, house rules etc.), or World in Flames, both of
which seem more like
careers than games.
It's probably my favorite strategic wargame. Turns are monthly (I think,
maybe quarterly), and
units are typically corps. Unfortunately its out of print, but you might be
able to find a copy on
auction.
Glen E. Bailey Jr.
Janitor_of_Lunacy wrote:
> I found it more playable than Advanced 3rd Reich (which also seemed to
> suffer from an
> excess of chrome, addons, house rules etc.), or World in Flames, both of
> which seem more like
> careers than games.
You say that like it's a bad thing. :)
I have ETO & PTO, never played them.
Find a group who is playing a WW2 game and go watch for a session
or two and ask questions. Most groups always need more players and
welcome the chance to teach their passion to another.
Glen
Drazen Kramaric
news:8dj8g6$1pe$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
> My friend and I are looking to make the transition from Axis and Allies to
> something with a little more realism. What is the definitive war game for
> the european theatre, pacific theatre and the whole war these days? Given
> that what ever this is will probably be too complex of a jump, what would
> anyone recommend as the next step. Hitler's War, Victory in the Pacific?
Go with Hitler's War and Victory in the Pacific. Both games can be
finished within a long evening. Both games capture the essence of
respective theatres.
At least my Axis and Allies group purchased both games.
Drax
EEK
Reich is one of my favorite wargames. I wish more games, even in earlier
eras brought an economic factor into the system.
I haven't tried Advanced Third Reich or Empire of the Rising Sun yet.
Totaler Krieg sounds good too, but I would want to find out more about it
before getting it.
My $0.02
E.E. Kleist
chris foreman
joe marshall
"EEK" <gs0...@panther.Gsu.EDU> wrote in message
I have to say that Third
> Reich is one of my favorite wargames. I wish more games, even in earlier
> eras brought an economic factor into the system.
>
> I haven't tried Advanced Third Reich or Empire of the Rising Sun yet.
A3R is definatly worth getting, even if you already have 3R. The map is
almost twice as large, with larger hexes, so that you stacks arn't so
tight...and it's colored, with terrain features more naturaly depicted.
The air and naval rules have been improved to allow more flexability and
realism in air/naval operations.
Politics and diplomacy have been added which influence what nuetral/minor
countries do. If you don't like that, play the 1942 scenerio, which starts
the game at the hight of the war.
There are many other subtle improvements which escape my memory as its been
awhile since I've played.
Keep the air and naval units from your old game, as its handy to have lots
of "change" for these units...especially German air, British and Italian
naval, and later US air and naval.
I like the 3R game system because it has enough scope and complexity for a
myriad of strategies and tactical approaches, yet isn't a "monster game"
that bogs down with excessive unit breakdowns, etc.
I have Empire of the Rising Sun and although I'm eager to see the 3R system
in the Pacific (I'm always more interested in the Med campaign than the
Eastern front in 3R), I havn't gotten around to playing it. I have seen it
in stores, so it's still available...but I suspect those are unsold copies,
and that the game is out of print.
Joe Marshall