Age of Steam questions; Age of Steam FAQ
John Bohrer
FAQ on the boardgamegeek site:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/viewitem.php3?gameid=4098
I have perused this Age of Steam FAQ and have found no
errors. It seems to be a compendium of Age of Steam
questions culled from this and other internet sites.
I am delighted that this Age of Steam FAQ is readily
available. My thanks to Mike.
At some point, Warfrog will update their site to include
Age of Steam and an Age of Steam FAQ. Until then, I hope
that Mike's Age of Steam FAQ is helpful to the player's
of Martin Wallace's suberb game.
John Bohrer
Winsome Games
http://www.fyi.net/~winsome
Kevin J. Maroney
>At some point, Warfrog will update their site to include
>Age of Steam and an Age of Steam FAQ. Until then, I hope
>that Mike's Age of Steam FAQ is helpful to the player's
>of Martin Wallace's suberb game.
Considering that the URL given in the "Questions?" section of the
rulebook is for Winsome Games, I wonder why anyone would expect
someone to look at the Warfrog site for an Age of Steam FAQ.
--
Kevin J. Maroney | k...@panix.com
Games are my entire waking life.
<http://www.panix.com/~kjm/games-for-sale.html> updated 31 Dec 2002
charles davis
find anything in the box about what to do with a 3 result on
production in the east . though i understand some copies have a
sticker in them to fix the board.
Chuck
On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:29:20 -0500, Kevin J. Maroney <k...@panix.com>
wrote:
John Bohrer
> On 27 Feb 2003 13:40:45 -0800, win...@fyi.net (John Bohrer) wrote:
> >At some point, Warfrog will update their site to include
> >Age of Steam and an Age of Steam FAQ. Until then, I hope
> >that Mike's Age of Steam FAQ is helpful to the player's
> >of Martin Wallace's suberb game.
>
> Considering that the URL given in the "Questions?" section of the
> rulebook is for Winsome Games, I wonder why anyone would expect
> someone to look at the Warfrog site for an Age of Steam FAQ.
Well, Warfrog's label is on all 6 sides of the box, the game is
authored by that boardgame designing genius, Martin Wallace, and
was financed by James "Hammy" Hamilton of Warfrog. And it was
made in Germany, so it has very nice bits, not a feature found
in Winsome's games, as you have noted in the past. Winsome just
developed Martin's game, wrote the rules and licensed it to
Martin's company. So, Warfrog design + Winsome development +
Warfrog financing + German production = Warfrog game.
When Warfrog has an updated website, Winsome's website will
provide a link to it.
John Bohrer
> The Faq needs to mention the Detroit misprint on the map, i couldnt
> find anything in the box about what to do with a 3 result on
> production in the east . though i understand some copies have a
> sticker in them to fix the board.
> Chuck
>
i see . though i cant expect all to note this.
Justin Green
> I see that a supportive gentleman has placed an Age of Steam
> FAQ on the boardgamegeek site:
>
> http://www.boardgamegeek.com/viewitem.php3?gameid=4098
Very good timing...I just ordered it!
> At some point, Warfrog will update their site to include
> Age of Steam and an Age of Steam FAQ.
Did you mean to say "include Age of Steam rules"? I hope so. I was a
little frustrated that I couldn't read them before I bought the game.
Also, congrats on AoS getting into the BGG top ten for ratings, I'm
sure it deserves it; but I must say it's not very honorable to rate a
game you developed a 10, especially when you've rated exactly one
other game. I don't see any other publishers or designers doing it
(and I don't want to see a "blacklist" if I missed anyone). I hope
you aren't starting a trend. I don't want to start a flamewar, this
is just my opinion and I'll say nothing more about it.
Anyway, looking forward to my first game of Age of Steam next week!
As I'm from Des Moines and my dad legally represented the Rock Island
Line a while back (it seems that getting run over by a train is not
ALWAYS the train's fault, and no he didn't defend them concerning
sneaking PIG iron into New Orleans), I know already that I like the
map!
Justin
Christopher Dearlove
Maroney <k...@panix.com> writes
>Considering that the URL given in the "Questions?" section of the
>rulebook is for Winsome Games, I wonder why anyone would expect
>someone to look at the Warfrog site for an Age of Steam FAQ.
Possibly because the Age of Steam box has six Warfrog logos (one
on each face) and one Winsome logo (on the base of the box).
--
Christopher Dearlove
John Bohrer
> > I see that a supportive gentleman has placed an Age of Steam
> > FAQ on the boardgamegeek site:
> >
> > http://www.boardgamegeek.com/viewitem.php3?gameid=4098
>
> Very good timing...I just ordered it!
Smart move, as I expect them to be sold out before Origins.
> > At some point, Warfrog will update their site to include
> > Age of Steam and an Age of Steam FAQ.
>
> Did you mean to say "include Age of Steam rules"?
No. As the son of a Patent Attorney, as a professional with
the gamut of Intellectual Property types (Trademark, Copyright
and Patent) in my possession and experience, and as a thinking,
informed individual with US citizenship, I would never put my
copyrighted material on the Internet.
Please also note that, while I am sure that no one would want
to steal my 25 year old car, I lock it when I leave it.
I am sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear. And please
enjoy your Age of Steam game!
charles davis
not, and why make your customers job harder? Since there are some
copies of Age that shipped without the stickers, it would seem wise
for Warfrog and Winsome to mention this mistake on their sites, link
to the boardgamegeek download, at the very least. I knew where to
look to find the info, if someone looks to the producers of the game,
and the web site that they are sent to from the rule book, they will
have no idea that a 3 sticker even exsists.
Paul Sauberer
"John Bohrer" <win...@fyi.net> wrote in message
news:4bde1035.0302...@posting.google.com...
Translation:
"I will not put my game rules on the web simply because it's my right to do
it and accuse anyone who downloads rules of being a thief.
"I refuse to consider whether this actually has a negative impact on sales
of my games or examine why numerous other commercially successful game
publishers do so. I will continue to act in a paranoid fashion on this
subject, devoid of reason, even to the point of fabricating statements or
drawing ridiculous analogies to try and explain my irrational behavior.
"I may be able to develop very entertaining games with a railroad theme but
I have no talent at all as far as producing them or treating my customers
with respect."
(c) 2003 Paul Sauberer
All rights reserved
David desJardins
> No. As the son of a Patent Attorney, as a professional with
> the gamut of Intellectual Property types (Trademark, Copyright
> and Patent) in my possession and experience, and as a thinking,
> informed individual with US citizenship, I would never put my
> copyrighted material on the Internet.
You already have. All of the material on your website is copyrighted.
In fact, it even says "Copyright John Bohrer 2002" on the page.
David desJardins
Kevin J. Maroney
<ch...@mnemosyne.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Possibly because the Age of Steam box has six Warfrog logos (one
>on each face) and one Winsome logo (on the base of the box).
And no Warfrog URL.
If I have a rules question, I'm much more likely to consult the
rulebook than the box; aren't you? If you consult the rulebook, the
last section of rules is "Questions?", and recommends that people mail
or e-mail Winsome Games or consult the Winsome Games web site. The
Warfrog web site is mentioned absolutely nowhere in the rules.
--
Kevin J. Maroney | k...@panix.com
Games are my entire waking life.
<http://www.panix.com/~kjm/games-for-sale.html> updated 17 February 2003
Justin Green
> Justin Green wrote:
> > John Bohrer wrote:
>
> > > I see that a supportive gentleman has placed an Age of Steam
> > > FAQ on the boardgamegeek site:
> > >
> > > http://www.boardgamegeek.com/viewitem.php3?gameid=4098
> >
> > Very good timing...I just ordered it!
>
> Smart move, as I expect them to be sold out before Origins.
>
> > > At some point, Warfrog will update their site to include
> > > Age of Steam and an Age of Steam FAQ.
> >
> > Did you mean to say "include Age of Steam rules"?
>
> No. As the son of a Patent Attorney, as a professional with
> the gamut of Intellectual Property types (Trademark, Copyright
> and Patent) in my possession and experience, and as a thinking,
> informed individual with US citizenship, I would never put my
> copyrighted material on the Internet.
I assure you I didn't mean anything at all by my comment, I was just
trying to clear up what I thought was a typo: surely you aren't (or
Warfrog isn't) going to put the whole game on the site. Perhaps you
just meant there will be a listing for it.
All I'll say (and please don't take this as an attack) is that if you
DID post the rules, your game most assuredly would not be stolen AND a
few people might be more inclined to buy the game. I am definitely
buying Hammer of the Scots because I was able to read the rules (and
because it's getting such good reviews)...I am a bit wary of wargamers
saying the rules of a particular game aren't fiddly, so I wanted to
see for myself.
But if as you say you are going to sell out soon, I guess it doesn't
matter if you get an extra few sales.
Best of luck,
Justin
John Bohrer
Have you seen our website? Nothing there worth protecting, sir!
Your point is well taken, if somewhat exacting, so perhaps I
should amend my last statement to "I would never put my [valuable]
copyrighted material on the Internet". The website's primary
purpose is to show what is currently available from Winsome
and provide some information about seminal sites of great value.
One kind person characterized our site a 'minimal'.
Well, at least it is easy to maintain!
Let me take this opportunity to also add that "I lock my car
when I leave it [except at the Pennsylvania State Emissions
Inspection station]" before that is also corrected...
John Bohrer
John Bohrer
> and while i did note that, i was trying to point out that others might
> not, and why make your customers job harder?
i shall present your position to warfrog asap.
John Bohrer
> >Possibly because the Age of Steam box has six Warfrog logos (one
> >on each face) and one Winsome logo (on the base of the box).
>
> And no Warfrog URL.
As none yet exists that mentions Age of Steam! When one exists,
the Winsome website shall provide a link to it. And I am
sure that someday, they will have one that covers Liberte' too!
I have no idea when one shall appear, and I fully support their
primary focus on creating the next excellent Warfrog game.
With very limited resources, they must prioritize.
John Bohrer
> "John Bohrer" <win...@fyi.net> wrote in message
> news:4bde1035.0302...@posting.google.com...
> > shu...@yahoo.com (Justin Green) wrote in message
> news:<85f16397.0302...@posting.google.com>...
> > > win...@fyi.net (John Bohrer) wrote in message
> news:<4bde1035.0302...@posting.google.com>...
>
> > > > I see that a supportive gentleman has placed an Age of Steam
> > > > FAQ on the boardgamegeek site:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.boardgamegeek.com/viewitem.php3?gameid=4098
> > >
> > > Very good timing...I just ordered it!
> >
> > Smart move, as I expect them to be sold out before Origins.
> >
> > > > At some point, Warfrog will update their site to include
> > > > Age of Steam and an Age of Steam FAQ.
> > >
> > > Did you mean to say "include Age of Steam rules"?
> >
> > No. As the son of a Patent Attorney, as a professional with
> > the gamut of Intellectual Property types (Trademark, Copyright
> > and Patent) in my possession and experience, and as a thinking,
> > informed individual with US citizenship, I would never put my
> > copyrighted material on the Internet.
> > Please also note that, while I am sure that no one would want
> > to steal my 25 year old car, I lock it when I leave it.
> >
> > I am sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear. And please
> > enjoy your Age of Steam game!
>
> Translation:
>
You are too kind; it is an easy job when one works with that
boardgame designing genius, Martin Wallace, not to mention
all the marvelous gentlemen at Warfrog. There exists no more
interesting, intelligent, humorous, pleasant group of people.
You should meet them.
Paul Sauberer
> Let me take this opportunity to also add that "I lock my car
> when I leave it [except at the Pennsylvania State Emissions
> Inspection station]" before that is also corrected...
Either way, the analogy is still ridiculous.
A more proper analogy for your position would be "I never post a photo of my
car on the Internet because if I did, the car would get stolen."
Paul Sauberer
Paul Sauberer
> "Paul Sauberer" <spamgr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:<0TS7a.626668$HG.114...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...
> >
> > "I may be able to develop very entertaining games
>
> You are too kind; it is an easy job when one works with that
> boardgame designing genius, Martin Wallace, not to mention
> all the marvelous gentlemen at Warfrog. There exists no more
> interesting, intelligent, humorous, pleasant group of people.
>
> You should meet them.
Since I have blasted you before for your less than friendly demeanor towards
customers, it's only right that I acknowledge when you decide to not further
ignite the embers of a flame war. Nice job.
I have in the past acknowledged your evident talent for finding and
developing good games. Perhaps my prior assessment of your attitude towards
customers no longer applies. That would be a good thing.
Now if we can just get you to realize the value added by quality components,
life will be just peachy. :)
Paul Sauberer
Christopher Dearlove
Maroney <k...@panix.com> writes
>On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:20:08 +0000, Christopher Dearlove
><ch...@mnemosyne.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>Possibly because the Age of Steam box has six Warfrog logos (one
>>on each face) and one Winsome logo (on the base of the box).
>
>And no Warfrog URL.
>
>If I have a rules question, I'm much more likely to consult the
>rulebook than the box; aren't you?
Well, obviously I'd start with the rules, but if they didn't work
[not that this is the case here, I've not found a problem with
determining how to play the game from them] I'd ask Martin Wallace the
at next opportunity (Baycon after Easter I expect) or email Geoff
Brown. [OK, in this context that's cheating, but it's an option open
to UK convention goers.]
>If you consult the rulebook, the
>last section of rules is "Questions?", and recommends that people mail
>or e-mail Winsome Games or consult the Winsome Games web site. The
>Warfrog web site is mentioned absolutely nowhere in the rules.
Actually my logic would go like this: Warfrog game (logos) ask Warfrog.
Where are Warfrog? Well they must have a web site, everyone has a web
site [this may or may not be true, but it's an assumption that works
most of the time]. What's the URL? Quickest way is to type Warfrog into
Google. First hit. [I typed all that except the "First hit." before
actually doing it.] OK, now I fail. But it would be what I'd do first.
--
Christopher Dearlove
John Bohrer
> > > > I see that a supportive gentleman has placed an Age of Steam
> > > > FAQ on the boardgamegeek site:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.boardgamegeek.com/viewitem.php3?gameid=4098
> > >
> > > Very good timing...I just ordered it!
> >
> > Smart move, as I expect them to be sold out before Origins.
> >
> > > > At some point, Warfrog will update their site to include
> > > > Age of Steam and an Age of Steam FAQ.
> > >
> > > Did you mean to say "include Age of Steam rules"?
> >
> > No. As the son of a Patent Attorney, as a professional with
> > the gamut of Intellectual Property types (Trademark, Copyright
> > and Patent) in my possession and experience, and as a thinking,
> > informed individual with US citizenship, I would never put my
> > copyrighted material on the Internet.
>
> I assure you I didn't mean anything at all by my comment, I was just
> trying to clear up what I thought was a typo: surely you aren't (or
> Warfrog isn't) going to put the whole game on the site. Perhaps you
> just meant there will be a listing for it.
Oh, I understood your question, and it was, given the predilections
of some other firms, quite a reasonable one. As for what you would
see about Age of Steam, I refer you to their existing site,
http://www.warfrog.co.uk
where some nice pictures and some text are supplied for two previous
Warfrog games.
> All I'll say (and please don't take this as an attack) is that if you
> DID post the rules, your game most assuredly would not be stolen AND a
> few people might be more inclined to buy the game. I am definitely
> buying Hammer of the Scots because I was able to read the rules (and
> because it's getting such good reviews)...I am a bit wary of wargamers
> saying the rules of a particular game aren't fiddly, so I wanted to
> see for myself.
I felt no offense by your contention, you and I shall just have to
agree to disagree on the matter. We are of two different minds, not
an unusual case between people. Everyone is different. To illustrate
this most effectively, I suggest that you take a look at the thread
currently running in this newsgroup concerning the game Modern Art.
> But if as you say you are going to sell out soon, I guess it doesn't
> matter if you get an extra few sales.
No, it really doesn't matter. And please enjoy your Age of Steam game!
John Bohrer
> "John Bohrer" <win...@fyi.net> wrote in message
> news:4bde1035.03030...@posting.google.com...
> > "Paul Sauberer" <spamgr...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:<0TS7a.626668$HG.114...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...
> > > Translation:
> > >
> > > "I may be able to develop very entertaining games
> >
> > You are too kind; it is an easy job when one works with that
> > boardgame designing genius, Martin Wallace, not to mention
> > all the marvelous gentlemen at Warfrog. There exists no more
> > interesting, intelligent, humorous, pleasant group of people.
> >
> > You should meet them.
>
> Since I have blasted you before for your less than friendly demeanor towards
> customers, it's only right that I acknowledge when you decide to not further
> ignite the embers of a flame war. Nice job.
Winsome Games is lucky to have a marvelous customer base, one that any
firm would envy. It is composed of the cream of the crop, highly
intelligent, successful people with some financial security and a high
degree of curiosity and socialization. They are not 'train gamers' as
such, but a group of highly educated people who buy all our games as they
appreciate the new, innovative mechanisms we develop and the sheer
variety of experience they afford. Numbered in the hundreds, (we
started the list in 1998) we have determined who they are not just by
who buys from us (we suggest they buy from Funagaingames, whose website
is excellent) but who requests the freebies that we offer in the
majority of our games.
You are not on the list.
We are not driven to increase the size of the customer base, as we
prefer quality over quantity. For example, none of our Winsome
customer base have had any real questions about Warfrog's Age of
Steam. They do not require a FAQ. This means that we can devote
our resources to what we are driven to do - develop innovate new
games. And we shall publish another four this year, two released
at Origins and two at Essen.
> I have in the past acknowledged your evident talent for finding and
> developing good games. Perhaps my prior assessment of your attitude towards
> customers no longer applies. That would be a good thing.
I have communicated, by email, phone, fax and in person, with a lot
of our customers over the years. Their assessment of Winsome differs
from yours. I personally have not changed; I am still a crusty hardware
guy who does not suffer fools gladly. Luckily, there exists no fools
in our customer base, only mature, reasoned, intelligent, successful
individuals. All of our authors are wonderful people, the Warfrog guys
are super, and my unsung personnel in America, Germany, Austria, Denmark,
the United Kingdom and the Netherlands are what makes my small firm work.
Marvelous people. I am just a lucky guy.
> Now if we can just get you to realize the value added by quality components,
> life will be just peachy. :)
Our customers do not care about the components, what they do care
about the game - mechanisms, play experience, etc. They recognise
the value added by our development.
And, according to those that wish to share such personal information,
their lives are already just peachy.
Enjoy Martin Wallace's Age of Steam! He is very talented, you know.
Paul Sauberer
Here is where our fundamental difference lies, I believe. You seem to think
that the characteristics that you attribute to your customers are exclusive
to them ("cream of the crop, highly intelligent, successful people with some
financial security and a high degree of curiosity and socialization). In
reality, your customers are a subset of the people with those
characteristics- those who do not care about the bit quality of games. There
is nothing wrong with that personal preference but it does not make those
that do not share it any less "cream of the crop, highly intelligent," etc.
>
> We are not driven to increase the size of the customer base, as we
> prefer quality over quantity. For example, none of our Winsome
> customer base have had any real questions about Warfrog's Age of
> Steam. They do not require a FAQ. This means that we can devote
> our resources to what we are driven to do - develop innovate new
> games. And we shall publish another four this year, two released
> at Origins and two at Essen.
Limiting your customer base is not a "wrong" thing to do, and if you wish to
limit it to certain types of people, more power to you. However, besides
excluding many you judge as inferior, you are also missing out on many
customers of at least the quality of your current customer base. It's your
business, so it's your call, but you shouldn't labor under any false
illusions of cornering the market on quality gamers.
>
> > I have in the past acknowledged your evident talent for finding and
> > developing good games. Perhaps my prior assessment of your attitude
towards
> > customers no longer applies. That would be a good thing.
>
> I have communicated, by email, phone, fax and in person, with a lot
> of our customers over the years. Their assessment of Winsome differs
> from yours. I personally have not changed; I am still a crusty hardware
> guy who does not suffer fools gladly. Luckily, there exists no fools
> in our customer base, only mature, reasoned, intelligent, successful
> individuals. All of our authors are wonderful people, the Warfrog guys
> are super, and my unsung personnel in America, Germany, Austria, Denmark,
> the United Kingdom and the Netherlands are what makes my small firm work.
> Marvelous people. I am just a lucky guy.
>
> > Now if we can just get you to realize the value added by quality
components,
> > life will be just peachy. :)
>
> Our customers do not care about the components, what they do care
> about the game - mechanisms, play experience, etc. They recognise
> the value added by our development.
> And, according to those that wish to share such personal information,
> their lives are already just peachy.
If you produce only games with inferior bits, it is not surprising that your
customer base consists entirely of people who do not care about the quality
of bits. It would be just as unsurprising to find that the customers of a
record label that publishes nothing by operas are, in fact, opera fans.
Personally, I am not wedded to any particular theme. Also, if presented with
a purchasing choice of two excellent games at the same price; one with
markedly inferior bits and one with nice bits, I will choose the latter. I
find nothing unintelligent in that choice.
As a result I am highly unlikely to ever purchase a Winsome Game. There are
too many other choices to opt for that not only have interesting game play,
mechanics, etc., but also are produced in high quality. I own TransAmerica
but would never buy Iron Road. I own Age of Steam, but would not have
purchased it if it were produced by Winsome. Just my peronal preference.
I am not on your list because although I may have the other characteristics
you state I also add a quality:price ratio component to my game pourchasing
decisions. Winsome does not stack up with other companies in my own
assessment of that area. It is not inherently "bad" and as long as you don't
care that you are losing sales as the result of your decisions, it should
not bother neither of us that we don't have a fit. However, it should also
give neither of us any thoughts that our way of looking at these issues is
objectively superior to the other. Once either of us says "I am more
discerning, intelligent, etc." because the other one does not agree, then we
cross the line into absurdity.
>
> Enjoy Martin Wallace's Age of Steam! He is very talented, you know.
It has gotten great reviews and I plan to enjoy this title very much.
Paul Sauberer
John Bohrer
>
> As a result I am highly unlikely to ever purchase a Winsome Game.
Of couse not! Winsome customers are quite unlike you.
Most of your prior postings have been posed as a 'Winsome
customer' and you complain of 'poor customer service' by Winsome.
But you are neither a customer of Winsome, nor have you had any
contact with us as a 'customer'. Whatever your personal agenda,
your veracity is now further well documented, by your own hand.
In addition to being highly educated, intelligent, mature,
reasoned, informed and successful, our marvelous Winsome
customers are as honest as the day is long. Winsome Games'
customer base is the best in the industry. We are very fortunate.
Enjoy Martin Wallace's Age of Steam! If you have questions, just
call or email us, as Winsome offers customer support to
Warfrog customers for Warfrog's Age of Steam game. When Warfrog
has a website showing Age of Steam, we shall supply the link.
I am afraid we can not offer support on the other Warfrog games.
As for TransAmerica support, German speakers receive support from
our German licensee, WM-Deutschland and English language speakers
receive support from our American licensee, Rio Grande.
As for Volldampf support, German speakers receive support from
our German licensee, Kosmos/TMSpiel and English language speakers
receive support from Winsome Games.
As for all original Winsome games, both German speakers and
English language speakers receive support from Winsome Games.
My small firm is used to supporting a marvelous Winsome customer
base, numbering in the hundreds. We have been somewhat strained
supporting the Warfrog customer base, numbering in the thousands.
Thank the Lord that we do not have to support the WM-D customer
base, which, in terms of TransAmerica sales for the last nine
months of 2002 (according to our royalty check), is over 30,000.
I see that Funagaingames
http://www.funagaingames.com
still has some Age of Steam games in stock.
If you would like a 3 sticker, please send a SASE to the
address supplied in the rulebook. European customers should
email the email address supplied in the rulebook.
Enjoy Martin Wallace's Age of Steam! His creativity is awesome!
Paul Sauberer
news:<a%f8a.647370$HG.119...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...
> >
> > As a result I am highly unlikely to ever purchase a Winsome Game.
>
> Of couse not! Winsome customers are quite unlike you.
> Most of your prior postings have been posed as a 'Winsome
> customer' and you complain of 'poor customer service' by Winsome.
> But you are neither a customer of Winsome, nor have you had any
> contact with us as a 'customer'. Whatever your personal agenda,
> your veracity is now further well documented, by your own hand.
It was evidently too good to be true. Your attitude has not changed in the
least. I was perhaps naive in giving you the benefit of the doubt.
Perhaps you could provide a citation where I claimed to be aWinsome
customer.
I have referenced others who have claimed to be Winsome cutomers (or at
least players of Winsome Games). But I have never claimed to be aWinsome
customer, except to the extent of having purchased games licensed from
Winsome Games. I used to be a potential customer, had you ever decided to
produce games with a quality commensurate with their price, but I am not
even that now. I don't know what your personal agenda is, but if it includes
decreasing the potential market for your games, you have succeeded.
I also do not need to have contact with you as a customer to make a
statement on your level of cutomer service, particularly in regards to the
treatment you give them personally. You have been more than generous in
letting those who look here in r.g.b. get a first hand look at that
treatment. I thank you for that, as now I do not have to experience it
firsthand and can just avoid your business altogether.
As long as you bring up the topic of veracity, I would like to remind you of
a nice summary of several of the untrue statements you have made here in
r.g.b.
We can now add claiming that I said I was a Winsome customer to that list.
You seem to have a habit of making up whatever it takes to advance your
argument, regardless of the truth. That might be acceptable in terms of
adapting facts to the theme of a game in order to make it work, but it
doesn't cut it if you are trying to convince people of anything. This is
particularly true when your statements of "fact" are easily disproven.
> In addition to being highly educated, intelligent, mature,
> reasoned, informed and successful, our marvelous Winsome
> customers are as honest as the day is long. Winsome Games'
> customer base is the best in the industry. We are very fortunate.
I have no doubt that your customers are more honest than you are. Of course,
that would not take much.
I have no doubt that they are also very intelligent, etc. They also have a
personal preference that they do not care about the quality of game bits.
That is the unique quality that sets them apart from other game players. It
is, though, just a matter of personal preference and does not make them
inherently any more intelligent, etc. than other game players.
You seem to be just using that as an excuse to rationalize your intentional
alienation of another segment of the gaming population. You, as in other
things you have stated and opined about, are wrong.
>
> Enjoy Martin Wallace's Age of Steam! If you have questions, just
> call or email us, as Winsome offers customer support to
> Warfrog customers for Warfrog's Age of Steam game. When Warfrog
> has a website showing Age of Steam, we shall supply the link.
> I am afraid we can not offer support on the other Warfrog games.
>
> As for TransAmerica support, German speakers receive support from
> our German licensee, WM-Deutschland and English language speakers
> receive support from our American licensee, Rio Grande.
>
> As for Volldampf support, German speakers receive support from
> our German licensee, Kosmos/TMSpiel and English language speakers
> receive support from Winsome Games.
>
> As for all original Winsome games, both German speakers and
> English language speakers receive support from Winsome Games.
>
> My small firm is used to supporting a marvelous Winsome customer
> base, numbering in the hundreds. We have been somewhat strained
> supporting the Warfrog customer base, numbering in the thousands.
> Thank the Lord that we do not have to support the WM-D customer
> base, which, in terms of TransAmerica sales for the last nine
> months of 2002 (according to our royalty check), is over 30,000.
As I have stated before, I encourage you to license your games to others.
This is the best of all worlds. You get income from the license and gamers
get good games produced with igh quality but don't have to have any direct
contact with you.
> I see that Funagaingames
> http://www.funagaingames.com
> still has some Age of Steam games in stock.
> If you would like a 3 sticker, please send a SASE to the
> address supplied in the rulebook. European customers should
> email the email address supplied in the rulebook.
No, but thank you for the offer. I wouldn't want you to worry that I, as a
lower form of life than your customer base, would do something unauthorized
with the sticker, which you have undoubtedly claim is your exclusive
intellectual property. I will just create my own.
>
> Enjoy Martin Wallace's Age of Steam! His creativity is awesome!
I intent to enjoy the game.
Paul Sauberer
RRI1
>Paul Sauberer" <spamgr...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:<a%f8a.647370$HG.119...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...
>>
>> As a result I am highly unlikely to ever purchase a
>> Winsome Game.
>
>Of couse not! Winsome customers are quite unlike you.
I think the ONLY difference might be they haven't read your
posts like this.
>Most of your prior postings have been posed as a
>'Winsome customer' and you complain of 'poor
>customer service' by Winsome.
I am not Paul, I think a flame like this qualifies as
EXTREMELY POOR customer service.
It outweighs ANY & ALL positive & helpful posts you have
ever made here.
>But you are neither a customer of Winsome, nor have
>you had any contact with us as a 'customer'.
If he bought Age of Steam, Transamerica or Volldampf,
he is a de facto customer. I consider this post to be
insulting to me and I own two of these products.
I am a Winsome customer, though currently I am not proud
of that fact.
I'd buy more Winsome Games, if only:
1) The owner weren't a beligerent jerk.
2) The quality of most of your products were better than the
playtest kits you laughingly sell as complete games.
Number 1 far outweighs number 2.
John, you don't get to choose your customers. Your
customers choose you.
>Whatever your personal agenda, your veracity is now
>further well documented, by your own hand.
I would think YOUR personal agenda here is to sell your
games. I suspect flame wars don't help that.
>In addition to being highly educated, intelligent, mature,
>reasoned, informed and successful, our marvelous Winsome
>customers are as honest as the day is long.
In other words, EVERYTHING this post proves you are not.
>Winsome Games' customer base is the best in the industry.
It'd be larger if you didn't post crap like this on a public forum.
> We are very fortunate.
Unfortunately, the readers of this group are not.
Welcome to the Killfile, John! Enjoy yourself with Scot Peterson!
And one more thing, this post does not represent a specific
request for e-mail to be sent me. The last time you did
that, I simply deleted them unread. This time any unsolicited
e-mails sent to my address are going to be sent to
postm...@fyi.net as harassment.
Richard Irving rr...@aol.com
Made with recycled electrons!
Paul Sauberer
> In addition to being highly educated, intelligent, mature,
> reasoned, informed and successful, our marvelous Winsome
> customers are as honest as the day is long. Winsome Games'
> customer base is the best in the industry. We are very fortunate.
>
> Enjoy Martin Wallace's Age of Steam! If you have questions, just
> call or email us, as Winsome offers customer support to
> Warfrog customers for Warfrog's Age of Steam game. When Warfrog
> has a website showing Age of Steam, we shall supply the link.
> I am afraid we can not offer support on the other Warfrog games.
>
> As for TransAmerica support, German speakers receive support from
> our German licensee, WM-Deutschland and English language speakers
> receive support from our American licensee, Rio Grande.
>
> As for Volldampf support, German speakers receive support from
> our German licensee, Kosmos/TMSpiel and English language speakers
> receive support from Winsome Games.
In my experience, I have found that people who are highly wary of other
people ripping them off (to use a hypothetical example- such as not posting
rules to the web for fear of intellectual property being stolen) are usually
very untrustworthy themselves. They tend to think that others are just like
them.They also tend to be very devious in business dealings. They will
construct contracts in such a way as to exploit loopholes when it is to
their adavantage to do so. They will then fall behind the "but it's
perfectly legal" explanation when the other party to the contract objects.
I also notice that you cite three games licensed by Winsome. These games are
all licensed to different publishers.
I am not stating any connection between my life experience, your numerous
false statements on this newsgroup, and this apparent trend of Winsome's to
license only one game to a single publisher.
I just find it interesting.
Paul Sauberer
John Bohrer
> > If you would like a 3 sticker, please send a SASE to the
> > address supplied in the rulebook. European customers should
> > email the email address supplied in the rulebook.
>
> No, but thank you for the offer.
Suit yourself.
John Bohrer
>
> And one more thing, this post does not represent a specific
> request for e-mail to be sent me.
Yes, I now realize that all your communications must be broadcast.
Enjoy the attention.
DrPhibes
When someone is trying to pull your chain it is often best to leave him
holding a limp piece of rope.
Dear Mr Sauberer.
I could wax lyrical...but I know when to walk away.
Geoff Brown