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5a 5a cube action (splunge)
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Walt  
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 More options Nov 9 2012, 6:56 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
From: Walt <walt_ask...@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2012 19:00:15 -0500
Local: Fri, Nov 9 2012 7:00 pm
Subject: 5a 5a cube action (splunge)

XGID=-BAC-BCa-B---B---a---cbbf-:0:0:1:00:0:0:0:5:10

X:You   O:O
Score is X:0 O:0 5 pt.(s) match.
 +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
 | X           O    |   |       O  O  O  O |
 | X                |   |       O  O  O  O |
 |                  |   |       O        O |
 |                  |   |                O |
 |                  |   |                6 |
 |                  |BAR|                  |
 |                  |   |                  |
 |                  |   |                  |
 |                  |   | X        X       |
 |          X       |   | X  X     X     X |
 |          X     O |   | X  X     X  X  X |
 +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count  X: 85  O: 54 X-O: 0-0/5
Cube: 1
X on roll, cube action


 
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Bradley K. Sherman  
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 More options Nov 9 2012, 7:04 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
From: b...@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 00:04:49 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Fri, Nov 9 2012 7:04 pm
Subject: Re: 5a 5a cube action (splunge)

Well, it must be a take, so is it a double?
X is a favorite to hit, and if X hits a
favorite to win, but not many gammons and
plenty of jokers.  I'll call it
No double/take

    --bks


 
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badgolferman  
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 More options Nov 9 2012, 11:33 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
From: "badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolfer...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 04:33:40 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Fri, Nov 9 2012 11:33 pm
Subject: Re: 5a 5a cube action (splunge)

ND/Take

 
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Stick  
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 More options Nov 10 2012, 12:16 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
From: Stick <checkmug...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 09:16:34 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Nov 10 2012 12:16 pm
Subject: Re: 5a 5a cube action (splunge)

These types of problems are easy if you get into the habit of breaking
them down.  Here is what I do:

[22 11 65 64 61 52 42 21]= 14 hit + cover numbers and we win 10.5/14
of those games

[66 33 63 62 51 32] = hit + no cover numbers and we win 6/10 of those
games

[55 44 54 53 43 41 31] = games where we don't hit and we win 2.5/12
games

overall 10.5 + 2.5 + 6 = 19 games or ~52.5%

If we're 52.5% to win there is no way no how this is a double.

Stick


 
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Grunty  
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 More options Nov 10 2012, 6:59 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
From: Grunty <gruntingdw...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 15:59:46 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Nov 10 2012 6:59 pm
Subject: Re: 5a 5a cube action (splunge)
On Nov 10, 2:16 pm, Stick <checkmug...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> [55 44 54 53 43 41 31] = games where we don't hit and we win 2.5/12
> games

> overall 10.5 + 2.5 + 6 = 19 games or ~52.5%

Actually we're an underdog, cause non-hit rolls should count as
(nearly?) zero wins -- O will redouble us out.
So, 10.5 + 0 + 6 = 16.5 games or ~46%
Or did I miss something?

 
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Stick  
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 More options Nov 10 2012, 9:12 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
From: Stick <checkmug...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:12:23 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Nov 10 2012 9:12 pm
Subject: Re: 5a 5a cube action (splunge)
On Nov 10, 6:59 pm, Grunty <gruntingdw...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Nov 10, 2:16 pm, Stick <checkmug...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > [55 44 54 53 43 41 31] = games where we don't hit and we win 2.5/12
> > games

> > overall 10.5 + 2.5 + 6 = 19 games or ~52.5%

> Actually we're an underdog, cause non-hit rolls should count as
> (nearly?) zero wins -- O will redouble us out.
> So, 10.5 + 0 + 6 = 16.5 games or ~46%
> Or did I miss something?

Yes, I will not be doubled out on most non hitting rolls.

Stick


 
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pepste...@gmail.com  
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 More options Nov 11 2012, 6:35 am
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
From: pepste...@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 03:35:26 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sun, Nov 11 2012 6:35 am
Subject: Re: 5a 5a cube action (splunge)
Il giorno domenica 11 novembre 2012 02:12:23 UTC, Stick ha scritto:

A good reference position for the D/T after X  misses is in Trice's boot camp.  If X misses, X still has some contact chances and some racing chances.  A take is derived from these two sources of equity combined.  

O's crunched position means that the pip-count overrepresents O's lead.  About 12 points need to be subtracted from X's pipcount -- 8 for O's crunch and 4 for X being on-roll.  So, if X misses, X can win by winning a race with a deficit of 54 to 73 or by hitting O's blot.

Paul Epstein


 
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Discussion subject changed to "5a 5a cube action (splunge) ROLLOUT" by Walt
Walt  
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 More options Nov 12 2012, 1:22 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
From: Walt <walt_ask...@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 13:22:00 -0500
Subject: Re: 5a 5a cube action (splunge) ROLLOUT

O's board has started to crunch, X has a double shot at the blot, and
hit/dance is (probably) a market loser.  But it's still not time to
double.  Stick probably explained it best, so I won't duplicate that here.

I cubed this one, thinking of the market-losers.  Big mistake.

XGID=-BAC-BCa-B---B---a---cbbf-:0:0:1:00:0:0:0:5:10

X:Player 1   O:Player 2
Score is X:0 O:0 5 pt.(s) match.
 +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+
 | X           O    |   |       O  O  O  O |
 | X                |   |       O  O  O  O |
 |                  |   |       O        O |
 |                  |   |                O |
 |                  |   |                6 |
 |                  |BAR|                  |
 |                  |   |                  |
 |                  |   |                  |
 |                  |   | X        X       |
 |          X       |   | X  X     X     X |
 |          X     O |   | X  X     X  X  X |
 +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+
Pip count  X: 85  O: 54 X-O: 0-0/5
Cube: 1
X on roll, cube action

Analyzed in Rollout
No double
  Player Winning Chances:   51.77% (G:2.02% B:0.04%)
  Opponent Winning Chances: 48.23% (G:2.06% B:0.01%)
Double/Take
  Player Winning Chances:   52.01% (G:1.98% B:0.04%)
  Opponent Winning Chances: 47.99% (G:2.05% B:0.01%)

Cubeless Equities: No Double=+0.035, Double=+0.076

Cubeful Equities:
       No double:     +0.060
       Double/Take:   -0.337 (-0.398)
       Double/Pass:   +1.000 (+0.940)

Best Cube action: No double / Take
Percentage of wrong pass needed to make the double decision right: 22.9%

Rollout:
  1296 Games rolled with Variance Reduction.
  Moves: 3-ply, cube decisions: XG Roller
  Confidence No Double: ± 0.005 (+0.056..+0.065)
  Confidence Double:    ± 0.007 (-0.344..-0.331)

  Double Decision confidence: 100.0%
  Take Decision confidence: 100.0%

  Duration: 1 minute 50 seconds

eXtreme Gammon Version: 2.03, MET: Kazaross XG2

--
//Walt


 
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Discussion subject changed to "5a 5a cube action (splunge)" by Bradley K. Sherman
Bradley K. Sherman  
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 More options Nov 12 2012, 9:25 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon
From: b...@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 02:25:27 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Mon, Nov 12 2012 9:25 pm
Subject: Re: 5a 5a cube action (splunge)

Very impressive estimate. I did mentally scan through all the rolls,
but I didn't do any arithmetic.

    --bks


 
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