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This is what makes bgonline.org/forums a garbage dump.
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mu...@compuplus.net
May 31, 2012, 4:05:18 AM5/31/12
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Timothy Chow -- Friday, 25 May 2012, at 4:23 a.m wrote:
> Those of you who have read rec.games.backgammon in the past may be familiar with Murat the troll.
Calling me a troll, etc. is what many people resorted to because they couldn't counter my arguments and trying to minimize/dismiss the person was the only way they could deal with the actual subject.
Chuck Bower -- Friday, 25 May 2012, at 2:30 p.m. wrote:
>About 15 years ago he made similar claims of being able to beat JF. (Those posts should be findable on r.g.bg., too.) Either he's one of the best players in the world or he's a fraud. Let me think about it....
>Murat is an April fool 365.24 days per year.
I always differentiated bots from people and over and over again have made it clear that I never claimed that I could beat the best human players. I only claimed that I could beat the so-called world-class bots.
There is a difference but obviously thick skulls like Bower aren't able see it and have the moronity (did I coin a new word again?:) to call others fool.
Michael Petch -- Friday, 25 May 2012, at 6:22 a.m. wrote:
> Just because Murat can be a nut job, it doesn't necessarily follow that what he presented is meaningless.
Thanks for the "nut job" compliment. Can I return the sentiment by calling you an "asshole job"? Much to your credit though, at least you seem to have an open mind to not prejudge what I presented as meaningless.
Stick -- Friday, 25 May 2012, at 10:00 a.m. wrote (in response to Petch's comment):
> Of course not, but it certainly doesn't help. It's not that he can be, it's that he is, there's a difference....
> This is slightly more believable than a bot that beat XG on WC settings 69% of the time...
I proposed over and over again that humans may be able to beat the bots by not trying to play like the bots but by playing unlike the bots and taking advantage of their predefined/predictable style/strategy.
There is a difference but obviously thick skulls like Stick aren't able see it beyond bot playing against bot or bot masturbating doing roll-outs, and have the arrogance to call others "not case", etc.
> I've had someone credible email me and tell me that he was 95% certain a long time ago Murat admitted to cherry picking matches. He didn't see anything wrong with it because he would only delete the ones with 'ridiculously lucky' dice.
Who was that "someone credible" and where is the evidence that I ever said what he claims?
ah_clem -- Friday, 25 May 2012, at 4:07 p.m. (in response to Petch's comment):
> Me too. Preferably a padded cell far far away from me.
Ah, this must the kind of very valuable contribution to the high quality bgonline.org/forums by another insulting asshole?
eXtreme Gammon -- Friday, 25 May 2012, at 5:08 a.m. changed the topic to:
> Beating the bots? +10^10 *NM*
But didn't have the guts to bet on his own eXtreme Garbage against me... ;)
What's really amusing is that these are the people who complain about the low content of postings in RGB, happily gossiping, insulting, speculating, bullshit
ting, etc. in their own "private cell"... :))
MK
> Those of you who have read rec.games.backgammon in the past may be familiar with Murat the troll.
Calling me a troll, etc. is what many people resorted to because they couldn't counter my arguments and trying to minimize/dismiss the person was the only way they could deal with the actual subject.
Chuck Bower -- Friday, 25 May 2012, at 2:30 p.m. wrote:
>About 15 years ago he made similar claims of being able to beat JF. (Those posts should be findable on r.g.bg., too.) Either he's one of the best players in the world or he's a fraud. Let me think about it....
>Murat is an April fool 365.24 days per year.
I always differentiated bots from people and over and over again have made it clear that I never claimed that I could beat the best human players. I only claimed that I could beat the so-called world-class bots.
There is a difference but obviously thick skulls like Bower aren't able see it and have the moronity (did I coin a new word again?:) to call others fool.
Michael Petch -- Friday, 25 May 2012, at 6:22 a.m. wrote:
> Just because Murat can be a nut job, it doesn't necessarily follow that what he presented is meaningless.
Thanks for the "nut job" compliment. Can I return the sentiment by calling you an "asshole job"? Much to your credit though, at least you seem to have an open mind to not prejudge what I presented as meaningless.
Stick -- Friday, 25 May 2012, at 10:00 a.m. wrote (in response to Petch's comment):
> Of course not, but it certainly doesn't help. It's not that he can be, it's that he is, there's a difference....
> This is slightly more believable than a bot that beat XG on WC settings 69% of the time...
I proposed over and over again that humans may be able to beat the bots by not trying to play like the bots but by playing unlike the bots and taking advantage of their predefined/predictable style/strategy.
There is a difference but obviously thick skulls like Stick aren't able see it beyond bot playing against bot or bot masturbating doing roll-outs, and have the arrogance to call others "not case", etc.
> I've had someone credible email me and tell me that he was 95% certain a long time ago Murat admitted to cherry picking matches. He didn't see anything wrong with it because he would only delete the ones with 'ridiculously lucky' dice.
Who was that "someone credible" and where is the evidence that I ever said what he claims?
ah_clem -- Friday, 25 May 2012, at 4:07 p.m. (in response to Petch's comment):
> Me too. Preferably a padded cell far far away from me.
Ah, this must the kind of very valuable contribution to the high quality bgonline.org/forums by another insulting asshole?
eXtreme Gammon -- Friday, 25 May 2012, at 5:08 a.m. changed the topic to:
> Beating the bots? +10^10 *NM*
But didn't have the guts to bet on his own eXtreme Garbage against me... ;)
What's really amusing is that these are the people who complain about the low content of postings in RGB, happily gossiping, insulting, speculating, bullshit
ting, etc. in their own "private cell"... :))
MK
Tim Chow
Jul 27, 2012, 8:57:38 PM7/27/12
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On May 31, 4:05 am, mu...@compuplus.net wrote:
> Stick -- Friday, 25 May 2012, at 10:00 a.m. wrote (in response to Petch's comment):
> > I've had someone credible email me and tell me that he was 95% certain a long time ago
> > Murat admitted to cherry picking matches. He didn't see anything wrong with it because
> > he would only delete the ones with 'ridiculously lucky' dice.
>
> Who was that "someone credible" and where is the evidence that I ever said what he claims?
This is an old thread but I thought it was worth following up on it.
> Stick -- Friday, 25 May 2012, at 10:00 a.m. wrote (in response to Petch's comment):
> > I've had someone credible email me and tell me that he was 95% certain a long time ago
> > Murat admitted to cherry picking matches. He didn't see anything wrong with it because
> > he would only delete the ones with 'ridiculously lucky' dice.
>
> Who was that "someone credible" and where is the evidence that I ever said what he claims?
The credible person is Chris Yep and he dug up the following piece of
evidence.
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/rec.games.backgammon/NcsawydiDNM
Here, Murat says that he made a rule that if he was able to correctly
guess some incredibly lucky roll then he would delete the match from
the records. This skews the results and amounts to cherry-picking.
Murat, of course, doesn't see why this is a problem.
The fact that Murat didn't remember that he said this is further
evidence that he has a bad memory. (I'd further guess that Murat's
memory is bad enough that he doesn't remember the other example I gave
of his poor memory.)
---
Tim Chow
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