GCA "Pot Limit Omaha 8" Theory
Russ Georgiev
From: Newgca (new...@aol.com)
Subject: GCA "Pot Limit Omaha 8" Theory
View: Complete Thread (67 articles)
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Newsgroups: rec.gambling.poker
Date: 2002-10-15 18:43:31 PST
Pot Limit Omaha 8
Whatever you think you know about playing this game is probably WRONG. First
and foremost bluffing is seldom done in Omaha 8, except on minute pots or with
the 4 card hand. The name of the game is not scooping pots but a concept known
as the 3/4 scoop. I don't care what you read about this game, this game boils
down to one thing only, knowing how to bet the hand. Knowing the best starting
hands are definitely a must, but betting makes you the money.
Pairs
The best Omaha Pot Limit 8 hands contain no pairs. Playing the hands right is
the most important issue in the game. I read posts where people try taking the
pot for peanuts, while having decent draws. This is a wrong approach to this
game. A poster recently mentioned a hand where he held A,2,4,J with a "dry Ace"
[meaning lone Ace with out the flush draw]. The flop came 3,5,10 with the flop
containing two spades. The poster stated he held the "dry Ace of spades" and
proceeded to pot the hand, getting one caller.
Analyze this hand and the way the betting should play out. The bettor potted
this hand on the flop. Why do this? Look at the hand. It is a decent hand, but
definitely no monster. Yet it has many possibilities including an
uncounterfeitable low and possible scoop. Once low hits, the bettor is assured
a piece of the pot with a possibility of a scoop. The pot bettor had position
as he was last to act. Thinking about this hand let's you realize you crave
multiple action. You don't need the pot too big, in case someone is planning on
check-raising with a set, forcing you into a big bet call and probably being
isolated with this person. Is this something you think is beneficial for you
with this hand? Far better to have several players in with you and reduce the
gamble. Make low and then gamble if you must.
Play for this hand would be a small bet on the flop. Possibly as small as you
can make to ensure all parties call. Does it hurt to have everyone call you in
this hand? Definitely not, as you have an above average hand to attack with. By
potting the hand on the flop, how much money can you make? All you would take
down are the opening rounds of bets, which isn't much for you did receive a
pretty fair flop for your holdings. The proper bet for this hand on the flop
would be approximately the same amount as the opening bet. The more the merrier
and if you get quartered, a smaller loss for you.
Betting this smaller amount makes others take shots, as they think they are
getting pot value. They are wrong [they may get it from others, but not from
you] and you control this hand at this point, especially with position. The
next card was a Q if I remember right. The betting will likely be passed around
to you again. What do you do now? The same thing you did a card ago, bet a
small amount again and hope all the players call. The best card you can catch
is an A. Now you come out betting enough to warrant a nice win. You don't have
the "nut" for high but you do have the nuts for low and the 2nd nuts for high.
Milk these people and make something more than just the initial opening bets.
What would happen if instead of the Q coming on the turn an 8 did. Now you are
sitting with the nut low with a possibility of scooping by making a wheel. Your
hand is very good but nothing special. Again you send out a bet, slightly
larger this time as you know you are ensured a piece of this pot. Let people
draw and don't commit yourself into a situation where you are one on one. This
is not a hand that warrants this. Give everyone a chance to make something and
perhaps your low will improve and you may scoop. You are also adding more money
to the pot and leaving yourself far less vulnerable to someone trying to slow
play or isolate you. Who knows, you may also split a decent pot.
What you want in this game is "nut high", but this usually doesn't make you as
much money as you think. Flushes look good enough but once the 3 flush hits the
board most actions goes to a crawl. The same can be said if a pair hits the
board. The name of this game is to 3/4 the opposition. The players able to do
this and understand this concept are among those able to totally destroy this
game.
the 6
The 6 seems like a useless card to most of you. In Pot Limit Omaha 8 it is a
very important card to hold when playing the concept of 3/4. Hands containing
7's,8's,9's, are basically useless as you are playing one less card than your
opposition. People that go for the 3/4 concept know the best staring hands
contain NO PAIRS. Pairs are fundamentally useless in this game no matter what
any book tells you. I am telling you different and whether math tells you will
earn this much with this, the play of the hand is not taken into account.
Staring hands you should relish include four cards starting hands to a 6 low,
giving the highest priority to the ones containing A, or 23. These are the
hands that allow for the making of big pots and they allow you to 3/4 many
hands. Many combinations of wheels exist, with the worse combination being the
ones that have Aces in them. Three card wheel boards with an Ace will either
get you all or half if this is the nut high.You have been taught to attack this
game from the A,2 perspective. You weren't taught this is not the best concept
for Pot Limit.
Having three wheel cards on the board is not an easy thing. Calling an opening
bet with 4 cards to a six is not an expensive thing. Very easy to get rid of
the hand if your board doesn't come and not expensive either. Take a hand such
as A,3,5,6 and you may start to realize. Your key card from the opening is
trying to hit a 2. If you don't, what do you lose except you initial opening
bet. When you hit your key card or cards you are then in for a treat. Say the
board comes 2,4,K. Now you are in business for if the wheel does get there, you
have "nut nut". Take a bunch of cards and take combinations of these cards and
see what kinds of hands you develop when you hit your key card. Basically the
same premise as playing an A Q in holdem. In most of these hands you also have
a secondary card to hit. With the A,3,5,6 the secondary card is the 4. Now
stick two more low cards out on the board and see what your holdings will be.
Easy to get rid of the hand for a small loss, but when you do hit you capture
the hand or 3/4 the pot, giving you a tidy profit on a minimum investment..
Obviously Ace flushes are good and double flush hands better. But flushes don't
make you money in this game. You want the person's whole stack and many lay
down at the sight of 3 flush cards. This is why the game should be approached
from a low aspect. I prefer having four to a 6 than I do having 4 to a wheel.
Remember when wheels come on the board, unless an A is on the board, the wheel
will make for at least a six high straight possibility. It kills the hands
containing A,2. So here we have you playing A,2,3, when realistically at best
you will only win half of the pot. This is what having the 6 in the hand adds
to the value in pot limit. People don't lay down "nut lows". If they do, they
will lose anyway for if they are guessing if the person has a hand, he will
surely be able to fool them before long. This is what good players do.
the High Approach
High hands are playable in this game. The ones you imagine as being the best
are probably not. Key high starting hand include any combination of 40 or 41
with no pairs [A=11, face=10. Meaning K,Q,J,10 or any of three of these cards
with an A. Actually the Ace can be detrimental as the key card to this hand are
the 9 and another face card. This hand is easy to call with and easy to get rid
of without much loss. If the flop comes two faces cards, you can be in decent
shape and can evaluate. Remember the key card is a 9 for it allows K high
straights to be made, without a low. There are many combinations in this game
but in pot limit Omaha 8 patience is a key. The betting is the lock. Knowing
how and how much to bet is invaluable. When playing these hands for high, you
also develop other outs while having the nuts.
Bluffing
Bluffing is basically non existent in this game, unless winning a few opening
bets is called bluffing. People trap and slow play. The style I am talking
about allows you to keep control of the pot. Potting comes when you flop small
nut full houses early and don't have better draws. Potting is done when you
make the nuts both ways and want to preserve the hand both ways. Omaha 8 is not
a bluffing game and small bets made by good players are called sweeteners as
they are so small it invites people to put money into pots with little or no
chance. This negates loses you may incur from being quartered and keeps pots
where you want them. Having a low with no high is not a bargain, though it can
be if played well, with knowledge you have the only nut low. Betting will tell
you many things, if you understand.
One certain hand allows bluffing to occur in this game. It is a rare hand and a
rare situation when it occurs. Most don't realize the strength of this hand or
what is takes to call it. Take a board that comes A,9,7,Q,2 with no flush
possibilities. Put your holdings on A,2,4,6. Looking at this hand in a multiple
way pot, the hand doesn't look good. How wrong you are about this hand. This is
the premiere bluffing type of hand in this game. Potting this hand almost
assures you of half the pot or the whole pot. In fact, having someone bet into
you while holding a hand like this would make me POT. You are holding a highly
difficult hand for a single person to beat. Provided two people don't hold the
nuts each way, your hand is very strong. In most probability it takes two
people calling the pot to beat you. You hold a rare hand in the fact all four
cards play. Most people are not aware of these types of hands and think they
are weak. Thinking about this hand you realize when you pot this hand or raise
the max, people are forced to make a decision.
Three Aces are the nuts for high and 34 the nuts for low. Many people may want
to slow the action down with two pair or a number two low in order to get a
piece of the pot. Realize a person must use ALL FOUR cards to beat your hand.
This is not an easy thing to do. Having one caller allows you to get half the
pot and most will throw number two's or three's away. This is the best bluff
available in Omaha, for it normally takes two callers holding the nuts each way
to beat you. From the betting you would have realized this was not the case,
thus the play is very profitable.
Most players flaws in this game comes from their lack of knowledge on how to
bet. Betting is the key as I have stated before. Gambling in this game is not a
necessity as the hands I have told you will put you into ideal positions in
pots. Hands like A,A, 4,J double suited may seem very nice, but there is no
real need to get involved with these hands if you don't know how to bet right.
Hands such as A,2 7,J double suited are also very susceptible to fluctuations.
Pot Limit Omaha 8 is the "ultimate grind game". It is hard to really get stuck
in these games playing well. Normally it takes double counterfeits to get you
big loser. These are very rare but can't be avoided.
The main reason many people prefer Omaha is they like the action. Having all
these cards allows you to come up with some kind of draw all the time. With the
starting hands I have told you, many of your flops will allow for %'s well
above 50. Pot Limit is far different than limit and the same hands aren't worth
the same thing. Playing well more than compensates for people playing bad
starting hands. If you want to win it is a very boring game. If you want to
gamble go right ahead. I don't like my % in making a flush even if I have 3
other people in the pot. Give me a 'wrap around" nut low with the bicycle, 6
high straight possibility. This is the type of gamble I prefer.
I will answer all reasonable questions.
Russ Georgiev
Georgiev Cheating Analysts, formerly
Gambling Cheating Analysts
It is hard to fight the truth, logic just gets in the way
Question to skeptics? Do you doubt my knowledge of poker? If you don't doubt my
knowledge, please explain why I would end my career in playing poker in
casinos? If you doubt my knowledge, attack my posts.
Russ Georgiev
logic. This is just a repost of a lame ass article I posted a year ago.
Sorry. I don't have any original thoughts. See the archives for all
the people who refuted this crap in the past.
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