Dutch Boyd and the Pokerspot Issue
David Mills
after reading both sides, it is pretty obvious that Dutch was not trying to
screw anyone over. It was a business that went bad and some people got hurt
in it. This type of thing happens every day in the world. It seems to me
that he is trying to get something going so he can pay his players back at
some point. I would be happy that he is trying to resolve this issue, 95% of
the time when things like this happen in business, the guilty parties do not
try to make amends. Why would he purposely try to give himself a bad name in
the same community(poker) that he is involved in and is a known person in?
The answer is, he wouldn't. All of you whiners need to grow up a little bit
and give the guy a chance to make things right instead of bitching and
moaning over some money. I don't care if it was $100 or $10,000, just shut
up and see what happens before you trash the guy every day. It makes people
like Arlo Payne look really pathetic when they come on here and rant and
call people "fools" and all of his other garbage.
Patrick B. OMalley
for a year, kept it up and running, and kept a nice tidy balance of $50,000 on
the site.
Then one day your $50,000 is gone. You were 100% positive your deposits were
ok since no company would ever steal your own money, your own deposits in
attempt to save the company would they. Holy Shit. They did. Now your $50,000
is gone but you still read stuff from the owner and listen to his stories.
Would your post have the same tone to it ? Would you still be telling the other
people that had their money stolen, their own money used in attempts to save
the company, to calm down and give this thief another break ?
Looking forward to your reply.
Lester Hayes
intentionally to open up a cardroom just to eventually screw people over,
you're a little off on a couple of things:
#1 - He's trying to get something going, but at no point did he ever say
he's doing so to pay people back. He's looking at it as a new venture, and
all the past shit has floated down the river and we should all just carry on
and forget about it. Recently, he's begun wondering if paying people back
is the only way to get them off his back.
If someone asks you to donate $100 to a charity, let's say you tell them no.
Then, they point a gun at your head and again ask you to donate to this
charity. Now you do. Does that suddenly make you a better, charitable
person? Of course not. Boyd feels he's got a gun to his head with all the
people pestering him, so now he's WONDERING if it would make sense to pay
people back. He's no less of a scumbag.
#2 - He DID have the opportunity at one point to unload the whole mess he'd
gotten himself into: sell the software for the outstanding debt, pay
everyone back and walk away a poorer, but wiser and more experienced person
(with some moral fibre still attached). He chose to be GREEDY and not
accept this offer.
When you say this type of thing happens in the real world, you're forgetting
one thing. The people who pull this sort of stuff off, even from more
established companies, find themselves in serious legal trouble when the
interests of the shareholders (or equity participants or anyone with what's
claimed to be a sequestered account (banks, S&Ls, etc)) get embezzeled or
compromised in any way. It's not a fair defense for the CEO or CFO of a
bank to throw his hands in the air, yell "we're bankrupt!", and have stashed
away $40 million in assests somewhere that can't be touched. That is a
serious crime, and the only reason Boyd is getting away with it is that
there's no jurisdiction from which former Pokerspot players can launch a
lawsuit.
"David Mills" <davidm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vv6b9db...@corp.supernews.com...
TD Lowball
> serious crime, and the only reason Boyd is getting away with it is that
> there's no jurisdiction from which former Pokerspot players can launch a
> lawsuit.
>
An additional reason is that a lawsuit would probably cost as much as the
funds to be recovered. Dutch Boyd got away, sad but true.
TD Lowball --
_________________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
Edward Hutchison
Initially, he was confronted with some business decisions and he made some
moves that turned out to be dumb. That was too bad, but certainly excusable,
as a lot of us have done dumb things.
Then, he was confronted with an ethical decison. He had the opportunity to do
the right thing but chose instead to be greedy and immoral.
As my religion teaches the power of redemption, I hold to the hope that he
might someday see the error of his ways and turn from them. In the meantime,
any excusing of his behavior will have to come from a source higher than those
of us posting on RGP.
Edward Hutchison
Madison, MS
Point systems for evaluating poker starting hands:
http://PokerProfessor.homestead.com/links.html
Siam
>From: "David Mills" davidm...@yahoo.com
>Date: 12/31/2003 12:10 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <vv6b9db...@corp.supernews.com>
People might get burned once, but they will make sure they won't get burned
again and won't let the protagnoist get away with it.
I think they are performing a public service. Wouldn't you want to know this
salient information before you thought about depositing money at a poker site?
Unfortunately, for Boyd, I think he has little chance of making this venture
succeed. Too many enemies. And you writing a post saying to stop whining
ain't going to stop anything.
Investors in his site should be heavily forewarned that it will fail because of
all of these disgruntled poker players. They will pester other players there
and raise doubts. There are many other choices when it comes to where to play
and a lower rake fee won't overcome people's fear of losing their money.
And players lose because a lower rake fee would benefit us as well. Boyd is
not the person though to set this in motion.
I would be pretty upset if I lost my money at a site and I saw the same person
setting up another poker venture.
Cheers
>
>
>
>
KlingvilleBill
>You played on the site
>for a year, kept it up and running, and kept a nice tidy balance of $50,000
>on
>the site.
>
>Then one day your $50,000 is gone.
Of course, anybody lame enough to keep that amount of money online in the
fledgling days of the internet is not entirely blame free for his losses.
Patrick B. OMalley
it as well. But Party Poker wasn't run like PokerSpot was.
>Subject: Re: Dutch Boyd and the Pokerspot Issue
>From: klingvi...@aol.com (KlingvilleBill)
>Date: 12/31/2003 1:24 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <20031231162436...@mb-m22.aol.com>
Pete
>>there's no jurisdiction from which former Pokerspot players can >>launch a
>>lawsuit.
This statement is simply untrue. Anybody who wants to commence a lawsuit
against Dutch Boyd can do so in virtually any state they find him in (there
may be a few states which would not entertain the action). The real problem
is that unless you can show actual theft of the money by Boyd all you can
really prove is a debt owed by the corporation (not him personally).
Jurisdiction is a non-issue for a civil action since he is here in the US.
A criminal action raises jurisdictional issues.
Rod Shaw 2
without a couple of bodyguards? As many people as he screwed I can't believe
there hasn't been at least one person to just totally beatt the hell out of
him. Think about you are in a room playing 3-6 or 4-8 and he comes strolling in
and takes a seat at one of the higher levels flashing money and chips, that
seems like it would be enough to set some people off.
Lester Hayes
especially in a case like this, is especially worthless, morseo when you
consider the costs involved in getting it to the point of judgement. A
great example is our infamous O.J. Simpson, found guilty in a civil court
and ordered to pay something like $30 million. He hasn't paid a penny of
it. That's right, not a penny.
Those who've tried to find a way to sue Pokerspot and/or Boyd personally
have had all these questions answered.
"Pete" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:wDHIb.97466$JW3....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Garycarson1
Boyd didn't do that. He ratholed the assets for his own personal use later.
If he'd actually gone thru some kind of disolution of assets and made a
distribution to the depositers that would have been an appropriate response.
But, he didn't do that.
He didn't start out to be a theif. But, that's what he is.
Gary Carson
arlo payne
I just will no allow him to take off any more people!
_________________________________________________________________
arlo payne
_________________________________________________________________
Pete
Actually thats not what you said, you specifically addressed the reason
people didn't sue him.
David Mills
"arlo payne" <anon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ff31ab8$0$31836$9a6e...@news.newshosting.com...
> Is this you Dutch? Or one of your low life yes boys LOL
HAHAHAHA..........What a loser.
David Mills
>
> I just will no allow him to take off any more people!
Ummmm........yeah, ok.
Another internet tough guy..........LOL........what a lowlife.
Lester Hayes
:-)
"Pete" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:lGJIb.26678$q55....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Lester Hayes
what a great guy "Dutch" is. Tell us how he's misunderstood, and deep down
just a good old guy who's the victim of some terrible luck!!! Tell us all!!!
"David Mills" <davidm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vv6qkn...@corp.supernews.com...
David Mills
news:vv6re8i...@news.supernews.com...
> Oh look, it's one of "Dutch's" groupies!!! How exciting!!! Tell us,
David,
> what a great guy "Dutch" is. Tell us how he's misunderstood, and deep
down
> just a good old guy who's the victim of some terrible luck!!! Tell us
all!!!
Another whiner...............
By the way, I've never met the guy.
lysdexic
shit? Some of these people have lost a great deal of money to this
jack-ass. I think they have every right to "whine" about it.
However, for the most part, the victims of Dutch have handled it pretty
reasonably. Occasionally they warn others to be careful of his new website
and when someone post a question about him they post an answer. I think this
is a very decent thing to do. Some would even say that they ethically should
warn people of their experience. I know ethics may be confusing to Dutch and
his supporters, so I don't expect you to understand this.
They even seem to take assholes like you in stride.
"David Mills" <davidm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vv6s588...@corp.supernews.com...
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greg pittman
case. It has to be self serving, maybe to impress prospective investors
who read ths newsgroup,, etc. He sends his shills to start a thread and
then out of the blue, he shows up to defend what went wrong and his
excuses for ripping a new one in all of the customers. It is so
transparent Boyd, just go away and for good.
Happy New Years
Nat Silver
> Some of these people have lost a great
> deal of money to this jack-ass...
That's the twist. Most of his critics on this board
have not lost a cent.
lysdexic
are pieces of shit. I also think I have the right to be critical of people
who run businesses that way.
"Nat Silver" <mat...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:y9LIb.572475$0v4.22...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Gregory Raymer
himself in alias.
No, this type of thing does not happen every day in the business world.
Let's say you're going to set up a new business, as a general contractor.
You sell shares of stock in your new company to investors. You also sell
your business services to customers, who place orders with you to supervise
construction of their buildings. Whenever you sign a contract with a
customer, they are required to pay in advance for the work, starting with
10% immediately, and then they must continue to make advance payments in at
least an amount deemed sufficient to cover next month's expenses on your
part.
Now the company folds. At the time, you had 10,000 shares of stock
outstanding. You also had $100,000 in corporate debt, money or supplies
lent to the company. You also had $200,000 in advance payments, the money
of your customers which had NOT YET BEEN SPENT on their behalf. However,
this money was gone, because you had been using it to pay for the debts of
the corporation, that is, if you hadn't used the customer's money, the
corporate debt would've been $300,000 instead of $100,000.
The money lost by the stock investors, that happens in the business world
every day. The money lost by the banks and suppliers who lent you cash or
supplies, that happens in the business world every day. YOUR illegal use of
the customer advance payments for corporate debts, that is illegal, and
while it happens a lot more than it should, it does not happen every day.
The advance payments were made in trust, that money NEVER belonged to the
corporation, it was supposed to have just been held for use in making
payments for that customer's projects, as the money was spent on their
behalf.
That is what Dutch Boyd did. He took the money that player's had in THEIR
accounts, money that NEVER belonged to him or to Pokerspot, and used it to
pay debts of Pokerspot. Then, when Pokerspot folded, the player's money was
gone, and their was nobody or nothing left to repay them. That makes him a
thief.
I didn't ever play at Pokerspot, and didn't lose a penny. But many of my
friends did. If I ever enter a tourney and am at the table with Dutch,
well, I'll be stuck there. But he will know what I think of him.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
"David Mills" <davidm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vv6b9db...@corp.supernews.com...
lance
you will see Boyd is a thief. DO a google search for the past 2 years not
the last 6 months.
Lance
"David Mills" <davidm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vv6b9db...@corp.supernews.com...
David Mills
news:3ff37301$1...@127.0.0.1...
> Why the fuck would you antagonate people who think this guy is a piece of
> shit? Some of these people have lost a great deal of money to this
> jack-ass. I think they have every right to "whine" about it.
>
> However, for the most part, the victims of Dutch have handled it pretty
> reasonably. Occasionally they warn others to be careful of his new website
> and when someone post a question about him they post an answer. I think
this
> is a very decent thing to do. Some would even say that they ethically
should
> warn people of their experience. I know ethics may be confusing to Dutch
and
> his supporters, so I don't expect you to understand this.
>
> They even seem to take assholes like you in stride.
WAH, WAH..........Go cry about it you bitch.
TWal289
>Well true. I kept alot at Party Poker in the starting days and could have
>lost
>it as well. But Party Poker wasn't run like PokerSpot was.
Easy to say that now,but how did you know then?
AlwaysAware
Some people did try to take money out and were unable to do so. Remember some
of the very creative excuses, such as "sun spots"?
Other may have put in smaller amounts of money (did they have 'freerolls"
there?) and worked that money up to sizeable bankrolls that they couldn't get
out (or partially out) of the site due to liquidity issues (I'm wondering why
else anyone would have sums of 50K at the site when the games didn't play that
high) And while their investment may have been less than their loss, it is
still a loss nonetheless. Remember Russ Boyd's comment concerning these people?
Joan
lance
leave that kind of money online. Problem was not how much was left online it
is how much was not allowed to be withdrawn. This person tried to collect
very early on and never received the money. He kept on winning and
eventually hit 50k all of which had been tried to withdraw over 6 months. I
have had the same issues over time. I lost 4-5k at DragonPoker. Originally I
tried to withdraw when it hit less than 1k but the money never came, weeks
went by and my account increased in revenue and I was never able to cash
out. Only 1 room I would leave 50k at now and that would also be down right
stupid. SO do not blame the person for winning 50k and not getting it .
Blame fuck head Russ for not letting them take it out 40k earlier.
Lance
"KlingvilleBill" <klingvi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031231162436...@mb-m22.aol.com...
O-PGManager
> the time when things like this happen in business, the guilty parties do not
> try to make amends.
He wants an "investor" (sucker) to put up 1.5 million to start his new
site and payoff the debt for him.
Asking for someone else to payoff your debt is trying to make amends? LOL.
minus200
David Mills wrote:
> It seems to me that he is trying to get something going so he can pay his
> players back at
> some point. I would be happy that he is trying to resolve this issue, 95% of