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how bad was this $220+ error
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DELETETHIS
Aug 26, 2012, 9:03:15 PM8/26/12
to
IP - Biloxi - 1-2NL game --- been in game about 2 1/2 hours and have a
decent read on the table. I spent the 1st hour completely card dead and
used the image to steal a couple of small pots. I am down about $120
and have around $380 in front of me. Under the gun I make what is a
semi std raise of $12 with the red kings- get 4 callers.
Flop K - 6 -4 with two hearts
I bet $40 and the best player in the game raises to $140 -- all folds to me
I think he could have 3 or 4 hands - A-K 6-6 4-4 or even a move
with a heart draw hoping to win the hand right there. I consider 6-4 an
unlikely 5th choice but he is capable of the play since the table has
been pretty loose and he has about $950 with a $500 buy in.
What should I do - I have watched him raise - get called and he always
makes a large bet on the next card. I made what I think was a huge
error and shoved my remaining stack (about $220-$230). He thought a
while and folded - he showed me 6-4 suited. What makes this such a bad
play was that my table image was very tight AND I did not think about
his previous big bets after he raised and was checked to him. Now that
I have reviewed the hand I take a $220+ charge for the shove
How bad was it - my guess is that I will get pretty bloody on that question
was a good night in spite of this lapse - made a couple of good folds
and two very good calls and 3 for 3 on bluffs (plus about $150 on those)
went back today for tournament (played the 5 plus hours on Sat that gets
you a $50 credit on a $70 buy in) - won a little before it started and
played bad in tournament and got sent home before the money
decent read on the table. I spent the 1st hour completely card dead and
used the image to steal a couple of small pots. I am down about $120
and have around $380 in front of me. Under the gun I make what is a
semi std raise of $12 with the red kings- get 4 callers.
Flop K - 6 -4 with two hearts
I bet $40 and the best player in the game raises to $140 -- all folds to me
I think he could have 3 or 4 hands - A-K 6-6 4-4 or even a move
with a heart draw hoping to win the hand right there. I consider 6-4 an
unlikely 5th choice but he is capable of the play since the table has
been pretty loose and he has about $950 with a $500 buy in.
What should I do - I have watched him raise - get called and he always
makes a large bet on the next card. I made what I think was a huge
error and shoved my remaining stack (about $220-$230). He thought a
while and folded - he showed me 6-4 suited. What makes this such a bad
play was that my table image was very tight AND I did not think about
his previous big bets after he raised and was checked to him. Now that
I have reviewed the hand I take a $220+ charge for the shove
How bad was it - my guess is that I will get pretty bloody on that question
was a good night in spite of this lapse - made a couple of good folds
and two very good calls and 3 for 3 on bluffs (plus about $150 on those)
went back today for tournament (played the 5 plus hours on Sat that gets
you a $50 credit on a $70 buy in) - won a little before it started and
played bad in tournament and got sent home before the money
Message has been deleted
johnny_t
Aug 26, 2012, 10:09:10 PM8/26/12
to
On 8/26/12 6:03 PM, DELETETHIS wrote:
> What should I do - I have watched him raise - get called and he always
> makes a large bet on the next card. I made what I think was a huge
> error and shoved my remaining stack (about $220-$230).
It doesn't really matter, this is likely the last money you're making on
> What should I do - I have watched him raise - get called and he always
> makes a large bet on the next card. I made what I think was a huge
> error and shoved my remaining stack (about $220-$230).
this pot. Your simply not going to get him to put another dollar in
this pot.
However, this should make you think about how to take advantage of this.
Show him the hand, make him feel right about it. Get the rest of your
pot later when you make the same move and you're bluffing...
--
________________________________________________________________
RGP is not a good
representative cross section of the nation.
Popinjay Aug 24,2012
gtech1
Aug 26, 2012, 10:27:16 PM8/26/12
to
Not much else you can do given the stack sizes. If you min-raise you
leave yourself with only $126 behind to bet at a $510 pot. That looks
very suspicious and probably is more likely to get a fold than a shove. A
call might be ok if you know the guy bets the turn almost every time after
he makes a flop raise, which it sounds like he tends to do. On the other
hand, if your image is "very tight" then it looks very suspicious to raise
pre-flop, bet the flop, get raised, and just call out of position. This
means that a turn check is likely to be followed by a check behind and
then a fold on the river. So balancing all that, I actually like the
shove.
leave yourself with only $126 behind to bet at a $510 pot. That looks
very suspicious and probably is more likely to get a fold than a shove. A
call might be ok if you know the guy bets the turn almost every time after
he makes a flop raise, which it sounds like he tends to do. On the other
hand, if your image is "very tight" then it looks very suspicious to raise
pre-flop, bet the flop, get raised, and just call out of position. This
means that a turn check is likely to be followed by a check behind and
then a fold on the river. So balancing all that, I actually like the
shove.
Will in New Haven
Aug 27, 2012, 10:09:47 AM8/27/12
to
On Aug 26, 9:03 pm, DELETETHIS <"minus200(DELETETHIS)"@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
>
> Flop K - 6 -4 with two hearts
>
> I bet $40 and the best player in the game raises to $140 -- all folds to me
>
> I think he could have 3 or 4 hands - A-K 6-6 4-4 or even a move
> with a heart draw hoping to win the hand right there. I consider 6-4 an
> unlikely 5th choice but he is capable of the play since the table has
> been pretty loose and he has about $950 with a $500 buy in.
If he has a set he won't be able to fold. If he has 6-4 you might need
to call and check the turn to get another bet out of him drawing dead
or, if he made a full house, drawing to one out. If he is semi-
bluffing, you probably can't get another chip out of him after he
misses the turn but that is the one possibility that would make a re-
raise close to mandatory.
So there are six card combinations where you can shove without risking
a fold, The 6-4 is eight combinations and shoving would be risky
against that one because you _really_ don't want him to fold. The card
combinations for draw are numerous but almost all of them are
unlikely. You would rather he called a shove with a draw but a fold
isn't tragic.
>
> What should I do - I have watched him raise - get called and he always
> makes a large bet on the next card.
This is good information and would make me think about just calling.
However, I would probably shove. The other hands he might have aren't
folding and calling and checking the turn is going to look suspicious
enough that someone with two pair might shut down. Then he might fold
to a river bet and check behind if you check again.
I made what I think was a huge
> error and shoved my remaining stack (about $220-$230). He thought a
> while and folded - he showed me 6-4 suited. What makes this such a bad
> play was that my table image was very tight AND I did not think about
> his previous big bets after he raised and was checked to him. Now that
> I have reviewed the hand I take a $220+ charge for the shove
>
> How bad was it - my guess is that I will get pretty bloody on that question
>
> was a good night in spite of this lapse - made a couple of good folds
> and two very good calls and 3 for 3 on bluffs
If you are three for three on bluffs, how can you complain when _one_
player makes a correct fold against you.
--
Willy "The Lamb" Reich
wrote:
> IP - Biloxi - 1-2NL game --- been in game about 2 1/2 hours and have a
> decent read on the table. I spent the 1st hour completely card dead and
> used the image to steal a couple of small pots. I am down about $120
> and have around $380 in front of me. Under the gun I make what is a
> semi std raise of $12 with the red kings- get 4 callers.
That's fine.
> decent read on the table. I spent the 1st hour completely card dead and
> used the image to steal a couple of small pots. I am down about $120
> and have around $380 in front of me. Under the gun I make what is a
> semi std raise of $12 with the red kings- get 4 callers.
>
> Flop K - 6 -4 with two hearts
>
> I bet $40 and the best player in the game raises to $140 -- all folds to me
>
> I think he could have 3 or 4 hands - A-K 6-6 4-4 or even a move
> with a heart draw hoping to win the hand right there. I consider 6-4 an
> unlikely 5th choice but he is capable of the play since the table has
> been pretty loose and he has about $950 with a $500 buy in.
to call and check the turn to get another bet out of him drawing dead
or, if he made a full house, drawing to one out. If he is semi-
bluffing, you probably can't get another chip out of him after he
misses the turn but that is the one possibility that would make a re-
raise close to mandatory.
So there are six card combinations where you can shove without risking
a fold, The 6-4 is eight combinations and shoving would be risky
against that one because you _really_ don't want him to fold. The card
combinations for draw are numerous but almost all of them are
unlikely. You would rather he called a shove with a draw but a fold
isn't tragic.
>
> What should I do - I have watched him raise - get called and he always
> makes a large bet on the next card.
However, I would probably shove. The other hands he might have aren't
folding and calling and checking the turn is going to look suspicious
enough that someone with two pair might shut down. Then he might fold
to a river bet and check behind if you check again.
I made what I think was a huge
> error and shoved my remaining stack (about $220-$230). He thought a
> while and folded - he showed me 6-4 suited. What makes this such a bad
> play was that my table image was very tight AND I did not think about
> his previous big bets after he raised and was checked to him. Now that
> I have reviewed the hand I take a $220+ charge for the shove
>
> How bad was it - my guess is that I will get pretty bloody on that question
>
> was a good night in spite of this lapse - made a couple of good folds
> and two very good calls and 3 for 3 on bluffs
player makes a correct fold against you.
--
Willy "The Lamb" Reich
Dave the Clueless
Aug 27, 2012, 11:19:20 AM8/27/12
to
probably calling and losing 80% of the time. It was a good shove, IMO. You
didn't have enough behind for a raise.
-------
"The people are sending a message, and elected officials would do well to
take heed: You aren't getting any more of our tax dollars until you can
show you're responsible and can be trusted with the money you have now."
- Debbie Dooley, state coordinator of the Georgia Tea Party Patriots
halfpastdead
Aug 27, 2012, 11:47:26 AM8/27/12
to
On Aug 26 2012 9:09 PM, johnny_t wrote:
> On 8/26/12 6:03 PM, DELETETHIS wrote:
> > What should I do - I have watched him raise - get called and he always
> > makes a large bet on the next card. I made what I think was a huge
> > error and shoved my remaining stack (about $220-$230).
>
> It doesn't really matter, this is likely the last money you're making on
> this pot. Your simply not going to get him to put another dollar in
> this pot.
>
> However, this should make you think about how to take advantage of this.
> Show him the hand, make him feel right about it. Get the rest of your
> pot later when you make the same move and you're bluffing...
completely fuckin ridiculous ^^^^
> On 8/26/12 6:03 PM, DELETETHIS wrote:
> > What should I do - I have watched him raise - get called and he always
> > makes a large bet on the next card. I made what I think was a huge
> > error and shoved my remaining stack (about $220-$230).
>
> It doesn't really matter, this is likely the last money you're making on
> this pot. Your simply not going to get him to put another dollar in
> this pot.
>
> However, this should make you think about how to take advantage of this.
> Show him the hand, make him feel right about it. Get the rest of your
> pot later when you make the same move and you're bluffing...
>
> --
> ________________________________________________________________
> RGP is not a good
> representative cross section of the nation.
> Popinjay Aug 24,2012
Third of all, under UIGEA, transferring funds to and from any internet
> --
> ________________________________________________________________
> RGP is not a good
> representative cross section of the nation.
> Popinjay Aug 24,2012
gambling venue is illegal if any US financial institution is involved
in the transfer.
As has been pointed out in another thread, Visa cards seem to work
with Carbon Poker.
William "The Life" Coleman (ramashiva)
XaQ Morphy
Aug 27, 2012, 11:57:31 AM8/27/12
to
Most players aren't going to fold any of the hands he could have if you
shove, based on stack size. You found the one that did, oh well, not much
you can do. What happens if like the 5h rolls off on the turn. You
check, he checks behind, river is whatever, you bet, he folds. Same
result. Or worse, you check the turn and he makes a big bet and you
nitroll yourself into a fold.
A lot of beginning players play the results oriented what if game by
talking themselves into a bad play purely based on the results of the
hand. You've been playing longer than that, you should know better.
---
Morphy
xaqm...@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
http://twitter.com/xaqmorphy
XaQ Morphy
Aug 27, 2012, 11:54:26 AM8/27/12
to
On Aug 27 2012 10:47 AM, halfpastdead wrote:
> > However, this should make you think about how to take advantage of this.
> > Show him the hand, make him feel right about it. Get the rest of your
> > pot later when you make the same move and you're bluffing...
>
> completely fuckin ridiculous ^^^^
LOL, agreed completely.
> > However, this should make you think about how to take advantage of this.
> > Show him the hand, make him feel right about it. Get the rest of your
> > pot later when you make the same move and you're bluffing...
>
> completely fuckin ridiculous ^^^^
Dave the Clueless
Aug 27, 2012, 1:49:59 PM8/27/12
to
XaQ Morphy
Aug 27, 2012, 2:19:56 PM8/27/12
to
On Aug 27 2012 12:49 PM, Dave the Clueless wrote:
> I wish this one one of those boards where I could +1 a post.
+1
> I wish this one one of those boards where I could +1 a post.
Message has been deleted
Dave the Clueless
Aug 27, 2012, 4:25:45 PM8/27/12
to
I've seen in years. Why the hell do you lurk in this wasteland anyway?
XaQ Morphy
Aug 27, 2012, 4:29:01 PM8/27/12
to
On Aug 27 2012 3:25 PM, Dave the Clueless wrote:
> Seriously, that was the most concise and lucid replies to a poker question
> I've seen in years. Why the hell do you lurk in this wasteland anyway?
Heh thanks. I don't know why I still read/post here. Addicted to drama I
> Seriously, that was the most concise and lucid replies to a poker question
> I've seen in years. Why the hell do you lurk in this wasteland anyway?
guess?
fffurken
Aug 27, 2012, 6:59:51 PM8/27/12
to
On Aug 27, 2:03 am, DELETETHIS <"minus200(DELETETHIS)"@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
> IP - Biloxi - 1-2NL game --- been in game about 2 1/2 hours and have a
> decent read on the table. I spent the 1st hour completely card dead and
> used the image to steal a couple of small pots. I am down about $120
> and have around $380 in front of me. Under the gun I make what is a
> semi std raise of $12 with the red kings- get 4 callers.
>
> Flop K - 6 -4 with two hearts
>
> I bet $40 and the best player in the game raises to $140 -- all folds to me
>
> I think he could have 3 or 4 hands - A-K 6-6 4-4 or even a move
> with a heart draw hoping to win the hand right there. I consider 6-4 an
> unlikely 5th choice but he is capable of the play since the table has
> been pretty loose and he has about $950 with a $500 buy in.
>
> What should I do
You should probably make clear folding isn't an option, it is you
afterall.. just kidding ;)
If he has a made hand (and you can decide what his raise on the flop
infers to that), then he is drawing almost dead. You intimated he was
good player and he knew you were a tight player so he may well have
figured bottom two for the piece of goo it was after you shoved.
I think the majority of cases the right move is to try to look as
realistically unenthusiastic as you can when you shove the flop. Looks
to me like your opponent made a disciplined fold on this occasion.
wrote:
> IP - Biloxi - 1-2NL game --- been in game about 2 1/2 hours and have a
> decent read on the table. I spent the 1st hour completely card dead and
> used the image to steal a couple of small pots. I am down about $120
> and have around $380 in front of me. Under the gun I make what is a
> semi std raise of $12 with the red kings- get 4 callers.
>
> Flop K - 6 -4 with two hearts
>
> I bet $40 and the best player in the game raises to $140 -- all folds to me
>
> I think he could have 3 or 4 hands - A-K 6-6 4-4 or even a move
> with a heart draw hoping to win the hand right there. I consider 6-4 an
> unlikely 5th choice but he is capable of the play since the table has
> been pretty loose and he has about $950 with a $500 buy in.
>
> What should I do
afterall.. just kidding ;)
If he has a made hand (and you can decide what his raise on the flop
infers to that), then he is drawing almost dead. You intimated he was
good player and he knew you were a tight player so he may well have
figured bottom two for the piece of goo it was after you shoved.
I think the majority of cases the right move is to try to look as
realistically unenthusiastic as you can when you shove the flop. Looks
to me like your opponent made a disciplined fold on this occasion.
gtech1
Aug 27, 2012, 8:48:37 PM8/27/12
to
Didn't you say the exact same thing I already said (look at my post
above)? Why does Dave give you credit but not me. No fair. LOL.
above)? Why does Dave give you credit but not me. No fair. LOL.
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