Toughest WSOP Stud table in history? by Daniel N.
Danielnegreanu
like this one. If the game were anything but Stud, this probably wouldn't
qualify as the toughest table ever. There were four stud specialists, and four
all around tough players at my table in the stud today, with about 6 tables
left:
Seat 1: Ken Flaton
Seat 2: Thor Hanson
Seat 3: Scotty Nguyen
Seat 4: Jennifer Harman
Seat 5: Daniel Negreanu
Seat 6: Cyndy Violette
Seat 7: Danny Robinson
Seat 8: Alan Boston
It was clear to me that this was one tough table when I couldn't figure out
who the weakest link was. The fact is, there just was no weak link. To make
matters worse, when we lost Danny Robinson he was replaced with Artie Cobb!!
Anyway, I can't imagine that there was ever a tougher stud table assembled in
the history of the WSOP, from top to bottom. When we lost two of the players,
everyone was all but certain the seats would be filled by Ted Forrest and John
Hennigan!
I was doing just fine before I got to that table, but as has been the case
for me in almost EVERY event thus far, I just ran cold after the dinner break.
A lot of hours, and only one money finish. I've been trying my best, but the
cards just haven't been co-operating with me lately. I was deep in the last
three events I played:
Omaha hi-lo, 11 players left: Flop 8s-10s-2h. My hand, 7s,9s,6h,10h. My
opponents hand A-2-3-4. I flopped the best pair, with a monster draw. Turn A,
river Q, and bye-bye Danny boy.
Pot Limit Hold'em 5 tables left: I limp with A-K, two other limpers. Then the
button raises the pot, I re-raise the pot. The button decides to call and move
the rest in. Well, he also has A-K offsuit. Flop two clubs, followed by
club-club, bye-bye Danny Boy.
Stud, 5 tables left: 10 raises, 10 calls. I have split 9's with Q-9 of clubs
in the hole, and call. I catch an ace, the second 10 catches a J. On fifth, I
catch a K, and bet all-in. I'm up against 10's and J's. WIth no aces, kings,
queens, or nines out, I blank off, and yet again: bye-bye Danny Boy.
It's getting harder and harder to wake up everyday and face the same kind of
punishment. I must be a glutten for punishment though, because you can bet
I'll be playing in the SHOE tournament tomorrow!
Hopefully things go well for me, so that I can have a positive story to tell
you all, instead of these depressing sob stories :-)
Daniel Negreanu
kidp...@hotmail.com
www.fullcontactpoker.com
P.S. Still no word on the date that Johnny Chan and I will be playing our
quarter-final match in the gold bracelet match play event. When the date is
set, you all will be the first to know.
Asha34
games here in Connecticut.
Good luck with the rest of the WSOP.
Ashley Adams
greatbrit
> ...P.S. Still no word on the date that Johnny Chan and I will be playing our
> quarter-final match in the gold bracelet match play event. When the date is
> set, you all will be the first to know.
If I were you I'd get Matt to make a new rule that a no show gets blinded off, the
only exception being if the match clashes with another WSOP event.
Paul
Stephen Jacobs
"Danielnegreanu" <danieln...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020510040620...@mb-mp.aol.com...
It's inviting a lecture on basic poker (which I can always use) for a fish
to comment on the play of a champion, but these don't look like terribly bad
beats to me. Well, maybe the PLH was a bad beat, but the stud and O8 hands
have the look of confrontations to avoid in a tournament until it reaches
the point when blinding out is a prospect--which was clearly the case, so
I'm not presuming to say anything negative about Daniel's play. It's just
that when you're knowingly backing a somewhat-long shot in hopes of getting
back into action, and you bust out instead, that isn't surprising.
Thanks to Daniel for sharing his tournament experience with us. I wish him
success, and hope that if he pays any attention at all to my comment, it
helps him stay off tilt.
aaron
> Seat 1: Ken Flaton
> Seat 2: Thor Hanson
> Seat 3: Scotty Nguyen
> Seat 4: Jennifer Harman
> Seat 5: Daniel Negreanu
> Seat 6: Cyndy Violette
> Seat 7: Danny Robinson
> Seat 8: Alan Boston
>
> It was clear to me that this was one tough table when I couldn't figure out
> who the weakest link was.
well, they say if you can't spot the sucker in the first 15 minutes at
the table, then you are it. :-)
(someone had to say it)
aaron (who has been/is the sucker)
texplayer
how many chips did you have at that point?
"Danielnegreanu" <danieln...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020510040620...@mb-mp.aol.com...
Jonathan Kaplan.com>
>
> I've been at my fair share of tough tables this tournament, but nothing quite
>like this one. If the game were anything but Stud, this probably wouldn't
>qualify as the toughest table ever. There were four stud specialists, and four
>all around tough players at my table in the stud today, with about 6 tables
>left:
>
>Seat 1: Ken Flaton
>Seat 2: Thor Hanson
>Seat 3: Scotty Nguyen
>Seat 4: Jennifer Harman
>Seat 5: Daniel Negreanu
>Seat 6: Cyndy Violette
>Seat 7: Danny Robinson
>Seat 8: Alan Boston
>
so, you had to sit between Jennifer and Cyndi?
really feeling for you, man.
what a tough life....smile
> ....I was doing just fine before I got to that table, but as has been the case
>for me in almost EVERY event thus far, I just ran cold after the dinner break.
>A lot of hours, and only one money finish. I've been trying my best, but the
>cards just haven't been co-operating with me lately...
>
>....It's getting harder and harder to wake up everyday and face the same kind of
>punishment. I must be a glutten for punishment though, because you can bet
>I'll be playing in the SHOE tournament tomorrow!
> Hopefully things go well for me, so that I can have a positive story to tell
>you all, instead of these depressing sob stories :-)...
>
the business i am in is VERY cyclical. sometimes, times are good. occasionally,
times are great, and people really clean up. occasionally, times are like death.
coincidentally, this is one of those death times. people are retiring, getting
fired, dropping out of the business, no one is making money, and man, you should
hear the griping.
i work for a big firm. when we get paid good money, cause times are good, we
arent getting paid just for that period. that great pay is a downpayment on when
times are bad. we get great pay sometimes to put up with the really hard times,
as well. and, it is very hard to put up with the hard times, especially until
one gets the discipline and will to do so.
tournament poker is like that. one or two wins have to give you enough money and
willpower to put up with the 50 times of nothing that are right around the
corner. the successes of the past pay for the tribulations of the future, more
than just monetarily. it is hard to "lose" 50 times in a row, no?
once i got into that kind of mindset, it became much easier to deal with the
hard times, my discipline improved, my will strengthened....and, i think, this
understanding is the reason i am currently in my 20th year of trading. most
traders dont make it 5 years, many of them fail cause they cant adapt to the
stress in this way.
it looks to me like versions of the same thing are happening to you.
good luck.
Jonathan
no matter where you go, there you are....
Barbara Yoon
> Omaha hi-lo, 11 players left: Flop 8s-10s-2h. My hand, 7s,9s,6h,10h.
> My opponents hand A-2-3-4. I flopped the best pair, with a monster
> draw. Turn A, river Q, and bye-bye Danny boy.
"7s,9s,6h,10h"...?!
Ummm...Daniel...was that an unraised big blind...or too many Coronas?!
DaPeif
I am sure those defeats will work out for you in the end, at the BIG final.
Thumbs up, I know you make it! Get the bracelet and show it to me on my visit.
Jay "The Pocket" Pfeifer
Easy E
> Omaha hi-lo, 11 players left: Flop 8s-10s-2h. My hand, 7s,9s,6h,10h. My
> opponents hand A-2-3-4. I flopped the best pair, with a monster draw. Turn A,
> river Q, and bye-bye Danny boy.
Did you feel that strongly about the hand because there were only 11
people left and you were facing one opponent? Only the Js gives you a
monster hand, the 6s gets you only 1/2 the pot and any high pair is
already beating you...
Is it worth it at the end of a tournament to draw strongly towards
that type of hand (lucky straight flush, non-nut straight with no
redraw straight and probable 1/2 pot with little low save chance?)
> punishment. I must be a glutten for punishment though, because you can bet
> I'll be playing in the SHOE tournament tomorrow!
Can I assume that SHOE is the same as HOSE as far as games involved?
I like SHOE better, in order to separate more cleanly from HORSE
Good luck in your games...
Easy E
Danielnegreanu
>Date: 5/10/02 7:46 AM Pa
>"7s,9s,6h,10h"...?!
>
>Ummm...Daniel...was that an unraised big blind...or too many Coronas?!
No, I was at the 5 handed table and raised the hand on the button. I'd do it
again if I had to...
Daniel Negreanu
kidp...@hotmail.com
www.fullcontactpoker.com
Dsklansky
>arent getting paid just for that period. that great pay is a downpayment on
>when
>times are bad. we get great pay sometimes to put up with the really hard
>times,
>Jonathan
>
A firm that for many years has required all of it's relevant employees to read
Getting The Best of It.
MSA1213
If the big blind has experience with your play and had no special reason to be
likely to fold, do you think that doing this often is wise in O/8? While you
have position, a random hand may well be superior.
Even though there was no difference in 11th and 10th place money directly, did
you think of your prop bet and the potential value in that of 10th v 11th?
Hopefully you'll win the Gold Bracelet Match Play and get a twofer in your prop
bets out of that!
marc (msa)
Barbara: Run all the way out, what are the odds for this hand against a random
hand?
A. Prock
>Stud, 5 tables left: 10 raises, 10 calls. I have split 9's with Q-9 of clubs
>in the hole, and call. I catch an ace, the second 10 catches a J. On fifth, I
>catch a K, and bet all-in. I'm up against 10's and J's. WIth no aces, kings,
>queens, or nines out, I blank off, and yet again: bye-bye Danny Boy.
Ok,
The other beats were legitimate bad luck. But what on
EARTH were you thinking when you called two tens with
a pair of nines?
Not to be harsh, but it makes me wonder how many other
times you made a similar mistake (calling a raise with
AJs in limit hold'em, etc...)
Of coure, you were the one complaining about MIS players
at my satalite, those players who remove all postflop
skill by raising all-in preflop. Needless to say, after
you explained your disdain for MIS players, you proceeded
to do the best impression of one I've ever seen.
It just makes me wonder sometimes.
- Andrew
El Gato Grande
> > Omaha hi-lo, 11 players left: Flop 8s-10s-2h. My hand, 7s,9s,6h,10h. My
> > opponents hand A-2-3-4. I flopped the best pair, with a monster draw. Turn A,
> > river Q, and bye-bye Danny boy.
>
> Did you feel that strongly about the hand because there were only 11
> people left and you were facing one opponent? Only the Js gives you a
> monster hand, the 6s gets you only 1/2 the pot and any high pair is
> already beating you...
While this hand certainly doesn't qualify as a "bad beat," I know
exactly where Daniel is coming from. It's frustrating to bust out
when you "hit" your flop and can't even take down half, Daniel will be
the first to admit that the other player held a pre-flop monster and
did nothing wrong.
As to Daniel's pre-flop play of a button raise with this hand --
again, I understand and respect this play. If you have a decent
chance of picking up the blinds here you have to go for it (limping is
not a good option). If you fail to drive out the blinds, you see a
flop and hope for the best.
I see many posts on Omaha commenting about only drawing to the nuts.
However, this just isn't practical short-handed. If you are always
afraid of the nuts being out, you simply can't play short-handed.
When I won my bracelet in Omaha, when it got three-handed, I won two
pots uncontested with raises on the button (under the gun) holding
TT23. Not a huge hand, but I wan't afraid to play it heads up if
necessary (got a high, got a low).
Bob
p.s. Daniel, if you see this, I was the poor sap at your table the
next day in PLHE who got all-in with JJ against Phil Ivey's AA in the
big blind. oops.
Danielnegreanu
>The other beats were legitimate bad luck. But what on
>EARTH were you thinking when you called two tens with
>a pair of nines?
Ram Vaswani, extremely aggressive raised with a 10. It was the highest card
on board. Jennifer Harman CALLED with a 10. I had a live two flush, a live
pair, and a live overcard. The 9's could CLEARLY be the best hand here. Live
game or tournament, I believe the call, or even re-raise is the best play. Not
that it matters, but Allen Cunningham totally agrees with me, and thought a
fold was out of the question.
>Not to be harsh, but it makes me wonder how many other
>times you made a similar mistake (calling a raise with
>AJs in limit hold'em, etc...)
>
I've done that before too, and I'll probably do it a few times tomorrow. If
an aggressive 'LA type player' raises in middle to late position, I'm just not
going to much AJs, in fact, I'll probably three-bet it more than 1/2 the time.
>Needless to say, after
>you explained your disdain for MIS players, you proceeded
>to do the best impression of one I've ever seen.
I guess you missed the part where I said I was going to play like an MIS! I
thought it would be fun.
Daniel Negreanu
kidp...@hotmail.com
www.fullcontactpoker.com
RMITCHCOLL
>>to do the best impression of one I've ever seen.
>
> I guess you missed the part where I said I was going to play like an MIS!
MIS?
Just curious.
Randy
Danielnegreanu
>MIS?
>
>Just curious.
>
>Randy
>
I coined this term in my last article about pot limit versus no limit
hold'em. MIS, stands for Move In Specialist...
A. Prock
>>Needless to say, after
>>you explained your disdain for MIS players, you proceeded
>>to do the best impression of one I've ever seen.
>
> I guess you missed the part where I said I was going to play like an MIS! I
>thought it would be fun.
Thank god I don't get paid to *pay attention*. If
that were the case, I'd obviously be broke. :)
And yes, it certainly did look like you were having
fun.
- Andrew
Randy Hudson
texplayer <t...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> why would you go all-in on the stud hand?
> how many chips did you have at that point?
One big bet plus a little, I'd guess. The second 10 presumably has a
legitimate hand, perhaps T-J-Q if not a pair of tens or a pocket pair; when
he catches a J, it's pretty close whether to play on (and probably end up
all-in before the river) or give up at that point. But having picked up
another overcard on fifth, to no apparent improvement by his opponent,
getting all in on fifth isn't an unreasonable play.
--
Randy Hudson <i...@panix.com>